Incapacitated Rework Ideas and Thoughts.
Now I may get hate for this but I think it’s worth talking about. We all mostly agree incapacitated was very strong, overwhelmingly so in most cases.
But I was talking to my survivor main friends and one of them said something I never thought of before.
Why not just change what incapacitated actually does?
Looking into the past for a bit, I remember an effect Ruin used to have were it slowed your progress and screwed up your skillchecks. If those effects replaced the current “No doing anything” effects, wouldn’t that solve the issues that both parties are arguing about currently? Not being able to do anything is terrible for survivors, but having lackluster information at inadequate times is just a waste for killers. So why not split the difference? Gen loses 11 seconds of repair time and survivors working on the gen get hit by old Ruins effect for 10 - 15 seconds? So if a group is on the gen they can still bust it out, but it keeps the killers slowdown high enough to help with their gen defense.
They will have to tune the OGRuin effect to make sure it’s balanced and fair of course. I don’t want my survivors friends to be over whelmed by a single perk, but killers do deserve to have good perks too. So let’s be civil and talk about what you like or dislike about this idea.
Comments
Well, remember that Incapacitated is not primarily the Eruption effect, it's an effect that Eruption also uses. Incapacitated is primarily the Victor effect, and if you could work on generators - even if with reduced inefficiency - while holding Victor, that would be a gigantic nerf to the Twins that they absolutely don't need.
The problem is truly just that Eruption never should've used an effect designed for a specific killer's power. That's not to say Incapacitated can never be used anywhere else, since it also applies to a few other killers at this point, but even release Eruption was in hindsight a problematic design.
As for changing Eruption itself, I don't mind if the secondary effect is lacklustre. The main draw of Eruption is the regression, and since that PTB change isn't hitting live, I think the perk's in an acceptable spot.
Considering the placement of the twins in the picking pool it’s hard to say anything about them. I for sure would never want to actively nerf them however.
Im just under the mindset of “If it’s unnecessary then why have it” Aura reading is amazing but has its moments when you don’t need it. After a hook? Yes. After a Save? Yes. After a down on specific generators? Not so much. It’s like survivor’s getting the killers Aura for a few seconds after they’ve hooked their friend. You already know the killer was over there. You didn’t need that information and is only good with certain killers who can move fast.
That’s why I’m an advocate for keeping a form of slow down so the killer can worry about the hook more than the auras of survivors that will be gone by the time the downed one is hooked.
I do appreciate the feedback.
To be clear, I wouldn't be against this change being made to Eruption specifically, it's just a pretty bad idea for the Incapacitated status effect since that is extremely important to Twins and relatively important to the few other killers that can use it.
Personally speaking though, I like that they went with more of a hybrid design of regression/info rather than pure regression/regression. I think it could be tweaked a lot more, but I don't think it's inherently bad for the perk to have passive, ambient information instead of a second slowdown effect. Either way, we're on firmer ground talking about Eruption itself rather than the status effect as a whole.
True, what would you suggest be tweaked about the information?
Maybe changing it so it becomes like BBQ? If you hook the survivor before twenty seconds all effected by Eruption will have their auras shown for ten seconds? Making a Killer work for a stronger effect and it only effects those who got hit by the regression first?
Changing the trigger to a hook has its benefits, but it also starts to step on the toes of other regression perks a little. What I'd personally like to see is actually changing how the information is revealed- instead of survivors who are actively working on the generator, have it be a little range around the generator instead.
That way you'd get more reliable information, and you can choose if it's worth slugging or if you'd want to follow up on the info after a hook. Like I said above, I don't mind if the info half is less of a draw, but I would like to see it be a little more reliable and thematic with the idea of controlling the trial.
I whole heartedly agree.
What is your opinion on the OGRuin effect coming back in some form? Perhaps as a TR perk or a Gen Kicking perk?
I wouldn't be against it. It would definitely need to be in a limited capacity, something like a timer on a kicked generator like you suggest would definitely be a decent idea.
The problem with the old Ruin effect is that skilled survivors can hit Greats pretty easily, but I think in the current state of the game that's still effectively slower generators than you'd get otherwise, and if it's only limited it doesn't screw over newer survivors too bad.
I floated it once as a change to Trapper's Unnerving Presence, too, which I'd still be interested in testing.
Well we could change "cant do anything" to "can still do everything, but worse"
Like repair, heal, cleanse etc -30% speed; vaulting - x% , pallets take longer to pull down etc. Harder skillchecks and reduced effects of successful ones. (Snapping out or mending might need a different modifier)
Rename to "weakened" or "enfeebled", keep incapacitated for complete disable if some killers still need it.
Weakened. I like That. Could also help on some killer add-ons that are….just bad.
Make no mistake, new eruption is still yet another bad perk to toss on the pile. But at least it does something now.
I disagree, I think it's just more niche. If you run Eruption on, say, Windstorm/Shadow Dance Wraith, you're gonna be able to cross the map and tag generators pretty quickly-- and if you can get a down swiftly enough, which isn't impossible at all on Wraith, that's a mapwide Jolt, more or less.
It's not nothing, it's a perfectly serviceable perk. It'll be far more in line with the other regression tools, once the changes hit live.
Incapacitated should just never exist for a set duration and probably shouldn’t be used on perks. Its original purpose was to force survivors to remove Victor, and it was then added to Pinhead as well. For these two purposes, it’s fine as it is and doesn’t need to be changed. Eruption was bad design not because of what Incapacitated does, but because of the way it used it, how it was applied, and how long it lasted. That Huntress addon that has it should probably be reworked too.
To be fair, if you were just hit by a hatchet, odds are you aren't going to be repairing, healing, cleansing, etc in the next 10 seconds anyway.
Which is also part of why they should rework it, because it’s not even good and yet buffing to something meaningful would just recreate the same problem Eruption had.