How could we balance the chase?

thekiller490490

What are your thoughts on ways the chase could be balanced for everyone? Remember a competent killer should be able to win. How can we make that better?

Runiver

Mostly changing some map setups when it comes to overly strong vault that can be abused for more than 2mins just by running in circles around them.
Coal tower is a great example with Wretched Shop. People can just make your run around for 1 full minute, then, just throw a safe pallet afterwards once you stacked enough bloodlust to be dangerous, and start over as the window eventually unlock. It gets quickly boring and is both not interesting nor skilled.

These "old infinites" (that aren't infinite anymore since the killer will eventually catch up, especially with Bloodlust) would still require a few tweaks, because paired with SB and DS, you can basically waste 3-4mins of a killer's time just running in circles around Coal Tower with 0 risks whatsoever since there is a huge lack of mindgames, which leave the killer only 2 choices : either keep going and waste several minutes, or drop and let the survivor to eventually heal on the spot due to self-care.

thekiller490490

@Runiver what all killers want. Well said.

azazer

1 time use obstructions. Think about the garages on Lumpkin lane. Rather than a pallet, what if the survivor could drop the garage door. It would block the killer's line of sight allowing an escape, it would close off the loop, the killer could still use scratch marks to find them so survivors would need to relearn stealth. 

But that's a pipe dream. Literally DbD 2 level of reworking

Jack11803

add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

thekiller490490

Jack11803 said:

add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

Also a reduction of pallets, and only one per loop. Like the Crotus Spent asylum middle building. The two pallets at one entrance is just bad. In the terms of the pallet reduction maybe a max of 15 per map and minimum of 10. 

The stealth of survivors should be increased. When in a locker only one bird shows up after 5 minutes. (They are afk) Scratch marks could be shown for like a second less. Tracking perks are fine. The survivor must have skill to know not to heal in the terror radius or to run the opposite way after a killer hooks someone.

Bravo0413

@thekiller490490 said:
Jack11803 said:

>

add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

Also a reduction of pallets, and only one per loop. Like the Crotus Spent asylum middle building. The two pallets at one entrance is just bad. In the terms of the pallet reduction maybe a max of 15 per map and minimum of 10. 

The stealth of survivors should be increased. When in a locker only one bird shows up after 5 minutes. (They are afk) Scratch marks could be shown for like a second less. Tracking perks are fine. The survivor must have skill to know not to heal in the terror radius or to run the opposite way after a killer hooks someone.

--Agree with all of this more chances of losing the killer so survivors don't need as many pallets would be good... if you're found and not in a good spot you'd pretty much be screwed which is what this game is supposed to __

Baphomett

What about leaving no scratchmarks during a chase?  Then if you break LOS with a successful juke you can actually get away without just starting a new chase when the killer traces your scratch marks.

ShesArebel88

@Jack11803 said:
add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

Well put! I completely agree

Azure

I'm not saying this is a fix, but could Blood lust Not be lost just because you Broke or got slapped by a Pallet?
it so sad that you spend 15/30/45 sec. to gain it,
then lose it All just because you cant catch them because of a pallet.

Blueberry

Jack11803 said:

add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

This pretty much exactly. It needs to be made way easier to lose a killer but way less ability to waste the killers time. Pallet numbers should be reduced dramatically and killer hit box reduced as jack said. Then, they need to add a ton more fog/bushes/reeds/line of sight blockers. The skill needs to shift to being able to make jukes and break line of sight rather than just flick my flashlight at you and tbag while I run you in circles for 5 gens. How this has been allowed to go on for over 2 years is just astonishing.

Dabrownman1812

Blueberry said:

Jack11803 said:

add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

This pretty much exactly. It needs to be made way easier to lose a killer but way less ability to waste the killers time. Pallet numbers should be reduced dramatically and killer hit box reduced as jack said. Then, they need to add a ton more fog/bushes/reeds/line of sight blockers. The skill needs to shift to being able to make jukes and break line of sight rather than just flick my flashlight at you and tbag while I run you in circles for 5 gens. How this has been allowed to go on for over 2 years is just astonishing.

Due to the concept of scratch marks, more needs to be done than simply break the line of sight

Jack11803

@Dabrownman1812 said:
Blueberry said:

Jack11803 said:

add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

This pretty much exactly. It needs to be made way easier to lose a killer but way less ability to waste the killers time. Pallet numbers should be reduced dramatically and killer hit box reduced as jack said. Then, they need to add a ton more fog/bushes/reeds/line of sight blockers. The skill needs to shift to being able to make jukes and break line of sight rather than just flick my flashlight at you and tbag while I run you in circles for 5 gens. How this has been allowed to go on for over 2 years is just astonishing.

Due to the concept of scratch marks, more needs to be done than simply break the line of sight

Just shave off a solid 2 seconds. That’d help a lot

Blueberry

I don’t think scratch marks would be an issue. They already scatter pretty terribly and you can manipulate that if you know how. That said, I don’t think it would be a big deal if they were reduced a little if the rest of these changes went through and I think most killers would agree with that.

Dabrownman1812

Blueberry said:

I don’t think scratch marks would be an issue. They already scatter pretty terribly and you can manipulate that if you know how. That said, I don’t think it would be a big deal if they were reduced a little if the rest of these changes went through and I think most killers would agree with that.

The buff to predator makes it a red carpet, if stealth is buffed anti stealth perks will be more viable.

Jack11803

@Dabrownman1812 said:
Blueberry said:

I don’t think scratch marks would be an issue. They already scatter pretty terribly and you can manipulate that if you know how. That said, I don’t think it would be a big deal if they were reduced a little if the rest of these changes went through and I think most killers would agree with that.

The buff to predator makes it a red carpet, if stealth is buffed anti stealth perks will be more viable.

Blueberry

Ah well predator is a totally different story, it could be promblematic in this scenario. I was just referring to the base scratch marks. We do also have leightweight that could alleviate some of this though. Not a perk really used much but these changes went through I could see it used heavily.

Jack11803

@Blueberry said:
Ah well predator is a totally different story, it could be promblematic in this scenario. I was just referring to the base scratch marks. We do also have leightweight that could alleviate some of this though. Not a perk really used much but these changes when through I could see it used heavily.

I think predater should stay carpet mode, but add more dance with me type perks, nerf scratch mark time by 3 seconds (always lightweight) and make lightweight effect footstep noise instead

Blueberry

Jack11803 said:

@Blueberry said:
Ah well predator is a totally different story, it could be promblematic in this scenario. I was just referring to the base scratch marks. We do also have leightweight that could alleviate some of this though. Not a perk really used much but these changes when through I could see it used heavily.

I think predater should stay carpet mode, but add more dance with me type perks, nerf scratch mark time by 3 seconds (always lightweight) and make lightweight effect footstep noise instead

If the other changes went through I’d be fine with that and I think others would as well.

Dabrownman1812

Word,more tactful perks

Tsulan

Killer and survivor collision box should be the same size. So survivors don´t get an advantage for looping.
More Line of sight breakers, which allow a survivor to actually juke the killer.
Bloodlust shouldn´t reset after breaking a pallet.

HeroLives

Get in cahoots with mortal kombat. New licensed killer Scorpion.  Get over here! Problem solved. 

Kale

It needs a fully maps reworks, smaller obstacles and loops, pallets is okay.

thesuicidefox

Remove a god pallet from every map that isn't Shelter Woods, Wrecker's Yard, and Rotten Fields. Block window/pallet combinations on major map structures that allow for excessive looping.

Exhaustion nerf will help too, though IMO it should just be a property of SB that you can't recover Exhaustion while running and not something applied to Exhaustion itself.

No_Mither_No_Problem

@Jack11803 said:

@Dabrownman1812 said:
Blueberry said:

I don’t think scratch marks would be an issue. They already scatter pretty terribly and you can manipulate that if you know how. That said, I don’t think it would be a big deal if they were reduced a little if the rest of these changes went through and I think most killers would agree with that.

The buff to predator makes it a red carpet, if stealth is buffed anti stealth perks will be more viable.

What in the ever loving ######### am I looking at right now

Runiver

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Jack11803 said:

@Dabrownman1812 said:
Blueberry said:

I don’t think scratch marks would be an issue. They already scatter pretty terribly and you can manipulate that if you know how. That said, I don’t think it would be a big deal if they were reduced a little if the rest of these changes went through and I think most killers would agree with that.

The buff to predator makes it a red carpet, if stealth is buffed anti stealth perks will be more viable.

What in the ever loving ######### am I looking at right now

A Jack11803 post.
Don't look for the sense, it usually doesn't have any

Dabrownman1812

Rip

darktrix

@Jack11803 said:
add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

This - even against a moderately competent killer with scratch marks and survivor painfully slow speed, losing a killer is tough. Thus they go to looping - cause if you cannot give them the slip, you may as well cost them time. Need less loops, more LOS breaking opportunities.

No_Mither_No_Problem

@Runiver said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:

@Jack11803 said:

@Dabrownman1812 said:
Blueberry said:

I don’t think scratch marks would be an issue. They already scatter pretty terribly and you can manipulate that if you know how. That said, I don’t think it would be a big deal if they were reduced a little if the rest of these changes went through and I think most killers would agree with that.

The buff to predator makes it a red carpet, if stealth is buffed anti stealth perks will be more viable.

What in the ever loving ######### am I looking at right now

A Jack11803 post.
Don't look for the sense, it usually doesn't have any

Tbh same hat

MegMain98

darktrix said:

@Jack11803 said:
add WAY more line of sight breakers. Do some other stuff. Shrink killer hitbox. Basically, survivors are TOO WEAK at losing the killer, but TOO STRONG at distracting him

This - even against a moderately competent killer with scratch marks and survivor painfully slow speed, losing a killer is tough. Thus they go to looping - cause if you cannot give them the slip, you may as well cost them time. Need less loops, more LOS breaking opportunities.

Of course. The survivors are painfully slow so you cannot keep up a chase for too long unless you go for loops. All the killer has to do is follow the scratch marks and you finished. Either scratch marks need to disappear quicker in a chase or not appear at all. Although I’m not sure of the reaction of killer mains, even I as a survivor main think that is a pretty big nerf to killers tracking abilities but something has to be done to balance chases. More LOS breaking and stealth for survivors, basically more opportunities to break off a chase and killers have to deal with less loops and “infinities”.

Spiritbx

Make killer models the same hitbox as survivor...

Master

@Runiver said:
Mostly changing some map setups when it comes to overly strong vault that can be abused for more than 2mins just by running in circles around them.
Coal tower is a great example with Wretched Shop. People can just make your run around for 1 full minute, then, just throw a safe pallet afterwards once you stacked enough bloodlust to be dangerous, and start over as the window eventually unlock. It gets quickly boring and is both not interesting nor skilled.

These "old infinites" (that aren't infinite anymore since the killer will eventually catch up, especially with Bloodlust) would still require a few tweaks, because paired with SB and DS, you can basically waste 3-4mins of a killer's time just running in circles around Coal Tower with 0 risks whatsoever since there is a huge lack of mindgames, which leave the killer only 2 choices : either keep going and waste several minutes, or drop and let the survivor to eventually heal on the spot due to self-care.

Map reworks are not gonna happen sadly, devs are too lazy for that.

I am just waiting for a DLC killer that can kill loopers just like nurse.

Boss

Well the devs stated they want "short and intense chases".

Sprint Perks would either need to have their movement speed reduced to 125% or the duration reduced to 1 second.
Not only do those Perks straight up lengthen the chase, they don't make it a make or break either for the Survivor. It's nothing but a few seconds added that can make it lead up to more additional seconds because of windows or pallets, there's no win or loss.
Looping needs to go altogether as well, meaning upright pallets and windows would gain Entity Blockers immediately after Survivors pass them, which stay until the chase has ended.

For Survivors, there just need to be a LOT more hiding spots than just lockers, like being able to enter certain bushes or hedges on Haddonfield, hiding under beds in Lery's Memorial Institute, laying down in tall grass on various maps etc. etc.
Lockers hide the Survivor's entire body, so bushes, hedges, beds (the sheets cover them) etc. would make them invisible to the Killer's eye as well, but they can still be heard breathing.