Does SWF Actually need a Nerf?

AWesley91

So we've all seen plenty of threads on here from killer mains talking about how when they go up against a good SWF group, they have to bring ruin, or pop goes the weasel, or noed, and play hard just to get a 2k because the SWF is popping gens like no tomorrow.

Here's the thing.

1. The devs have specifically balanced the game that the average round should be about 2 kills and 2 escapes, so if sweaty high rank killers are getting 2k against sweaty high rank SWF, that's balanced.
2. When high rank killers go sweaty and only get 2k against sweaty SWF... that means those SWF went sweaty and only had two escapes. It's not a reason to nerf survivors just because killers had to play sweaty against sweaty SWF.
3. At high ranks in any videogame, people are a lot more skilled than low ranks. Go play COD at level 50 vs level 10, it's different. Same on Rainbow Six Siege.
4. Killer mains. This isn't Resident Evil 4 on ultra hard. If you're getting 4k's a lot, that either means you're really good, or up against crappy survivors, or the game is unbalanced. It also means you're killing the game and contributing to long killer que times. When 1 killer gets a 4k, that means 4 survivor players lost and feel cruddy. 4k's are not a sellable game model. And not only are there TONS of addictive online games, DBD is not an A list game. It's has a fair share of bugs and not amazing graphics. I'm sure the Devs have done their best on the budget, but the gameplay is limited and the graphics are xbox 360 level at best. You really think if killers are getting a lot of 4ks, that people will keep playing survivor just to play and lose so you can win?
5. This only applies to a few killer mains who stand out like spotlights on forums and make them all look bad--You're not the "power role" this is not a BDSM relationship with you as a dom, you're not here to "punish the cancer that is SWF" or "want to make them fear you and picture their hope dropping and becoming despair." GET THERAPY YOU DEMENTED FREAKS.

Raptorrotas

@AWesley91 said:

Simple question for those who think 3ks and 4ks should be common for killers.

If a survivor player has a 0%-25% chance of his character living, do you think many people will play survivor? Seriously. Are you brain dead? Have fun with your 30 minute ques. This game literally requires 4x as many survivor players as killer players.

A 50% survival chance would be soo much fairer, afterall "2/2 is balance"... Not.

Survivors win by reaching their goal, getting out. Killers reach their absolute goal by killing 4 survivors, thus preventing their escape. As a side note its funny that only killer goal is considered vague so people push for that " doing 50% of your goal is balanced"-crap

Survivors want that sweet 50% individual survival chance...

Toss 4 coins at the same time. Do it once or as often you want. Tell me how often you get 4 heads. Thats the chance for an absolute killer win.

It takes all 4 survivors failing their chances for the killer to absolutely win.

immortalls96

@Corrupted said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/655079#Comment_655079

Actually I play a lot. I get rank 1 killer and survivior every season and I main Hag/Spirit. Maybe I'm just good at the game and don't whine about red rank SWFs to be some omnipotent gods that I should dodge and D/C when I see them.

Presumptuous...

OsamaAndKnuckles

The problem with a extremely sweaty swf is that only 5 killers max can even have a chance at dealing with them, bit thats a whole other discussion on killer balance. Also the game just isn't balanced around swf I mean what's the point of perks like bond and empathy if you have coms.

mistar_z

Just make solo players opt for voice chats then boom. problem solve. the devs don't have to waste extra resources and time on making sure that perks that are pointless to run on SWF because voicecoms give them for free, to be at least decent because they decided not to play with a friend over coms.

Pulsar

@AWesley91 said:

Simple question for those who think 3ks and 4ks should be common for killers.

If a survivor player has a 0%-25% chance of his character living, do you think many people will play survivor? Seriously. Are you brain dead? Have fun with your 30 minute ques. This game literally requires 4x as many survivor players as killer players.

Should Killers auto de pip? It should be balanced around piping, not kills. Also, can you try to be civil.

knell

@AWesley91 said:

So we've all seen plenty of threads on here from killer mains talking about how when they go up against a good SWF group, they have to bring ruin, or pop goes the weasel, or noed, and play hard just to get a 2k because the SWF is popping gens like no tomorrow.

Here's the thing.

1. The devs have specifically balanced the game that the average round should be about 2 kills and 2 escapes, so if sweaty high rank killers are getting 2k against sweaty high rank SWF, that's balanced.
2. When high rank killers go sweaty and only get 2k against sweaty SWF... that means those SWF went sweaty and only had two escapes. It's not a reason to nerf survivors just because killers had to play sweaty against sweaty SWF.
3. At high ranks in any videogame, people are a lot more skilled than low ranks. Go play COD at level 50 vs level 10, it's different. Same on Rainbow Six Siege.
4. Killer mains. This isn't Resident Evil 4 on ultra hard. If you're getting 4k's a lot, that either means you're really good, or up against crappy survivors, or the game is unbalanced. It also means you're killing the game and contributing to long killer que times. When 1 killer gets a 4k, that means 4 survivor players lost and feel cruddy. 4k's are not a sellable game model. And not only are there TONS of addictive online games, DBD is not an A list game. It's has a fair share of bugs and not amazing graphics. I'm sure the Devs have done their best on the budget, but the gameplay is limited and the graphics are xbox 360 level at best. You really think if killers are getting a lot of 4ks, that people will keep playing survivor just to play and lose so you can win?
5. This only applies to a few killer mains who stand out like spotlights on forums and make them all look bad--You're not the "power role" this is not a BDSM relationship with you as a dom, you're not here to "punish the cancer that is SWF" or "want to make them fear you and picture their hope dropping and becoming despair." GET THERAPY YOU DEMENTED FREAKS.

I agree with the OP for the most part. As he says, if the strongest killers go against the strongest survivors over hundreds of games, it should eventually average out to 2 kills and 2 escapes since that is how the developers have decided (in its current state) this game should be balanced.

That said, it's important to point out that this means that the strongest 4-Man gen-rushing SWF, all Rank 1s, all with utmost experience on looping and dragging out a chase as long as possible, all fully focused on escaping with the maximum number of survivors (so no unnecessary risk-taking or other foolishness that may unnecessarily endanger their personal survival rate), all communicating pertinent information to each other to maximize efficiency - should, on average, have only 50% of escaping against the strongest killers.

Hopefully this doesn't even need to be said, but this 50% escape rate of these strongest SWF also doesn't mean only against the strongest Nurse, Hillbilly, or Spirit players, but also against the strongest Trapper, Leatherface, or Doctor players (or any other killers.)

Which also leads to the idea that if these same teams of Survivors should not play in such a way, but prioritize "fun" (or "socializing with each other") over "efficiency" and "maximizing their time and skills to fulfill the game wincons," of course, that means that they should be slaughtered by the strongest killers 100% of the time, and therefore should no longer have any effect on the balance of the game, since they are no longer playing as the "strongest survivors."

So, the OP is right. If the strongest 4-Man gen-rushing SWFs are getting more than 2 Escapes on average against the strongest killers (whether it's Trapper or Leatherface), it most likely means that this game is not balanced and a fix should be prioritized.

Well_Placed_HexTotem

Sure, SWF doesn’t need nerfs. But then many other areas of the game need buffs. The fact of the matter is that the game is not balanced around communicating with other survivors. Also comparing the game to shooters is not logical. This is an asymmetrical 4v1 MP game.

Also basing balance around kills is equally nonsense. If I kill two people at red ranks that’s almost guaranteed to be a depip for me because I play weaker killers. I like to use Trapper. I enjoy Fredward. I have fun with Wraith. But SWF destroys these killers.

Lastly, why the idea that a survivor who died automatically had a bad time? I die as survivor a lot but still pip and still have a good time. You can do other things and pip but end up dying. As killer if you don’t get kills you don’t pip.

And with these weaker killers on these doodoo maps, sometimes the only way to get kills is to play in a manner that those SWF will get salty about 😆

Corrupted

@MemberBerry said:

Okay so far you've called me a demented freak for wanting to be a power role as killer against 4 survivors. What a wonderful person you are. I don't want constant 4k's, but I don't want 0 chance games either where they just rush gens despite me still sweating my ass off.

That's another thing, why SHOULD I always sweat like hell when playing killer? Survivors don't sweat, it's super chill for them.

If you are sweating your ass off but you have 0 chances of winning, perhaps you should pick either a different killer or get better. Killer is power role but it's rough and can be stressful against equally skilled survivors. It's not gonna be easy, playing killer isn't meant to be for everyone. I played Evolve in GB ladders with top tier players, if you think playing killer in this game is very stressful then HA.

KillingInstinct

@AWesley91 said:

So we've all seen plenty of threads on here from killer mains talking about how when they go up against a good SWF group, they have to bring ruin, or pop goes the weasel, or noed, and play hard just to get a 2k because the SWF is popping gens like no tomorrow.

Here's the thing.

1. The devs have specifically balanced the game that the average round should be about 2 kills and 2 escapes, so if sweaty high rank killers are getting 2k against sweaty high rank SWF, that's balanced.
2. When high rank killers go sweaty and only get 2k against sweaty SWF... that means those SWF went sweaty and only had two escapes. It's not a reason to nerf survivors just because killers had to play sweaty against sweaty SWF.
3. At high ranks in any videogame, people are a lot more skilled than low ranks. Go play COD at level 50 vs level 10, it's different. Same on Rainbow Six Siege.
4. Killer mains. This isn't Resident Evil 4 on ultra hard. If you're getting 4k's a lot, that either means you're really good, or up against crappy survivors, or the game is unbalanced. It also means you're killing the game and contributing to long killer que times. When 1 killer gets a 4k, that means 4 survivor players lost and feel cruddy. 4k's are not a sellable game model. And not only are there TONS of addictive online games, DBD is not an A list game. It's has a fair share of bugs and not amazing graphics. I'm sure the Devs have done their best on the budget, but the gameplay is limited and the graphics are xbox 360 level at best. You really think if killers are getting a lot of 4ks, that people will keep playing survivor just to play and lose so you can win?
5. This only applies to a few killer mains who stand out like spotlights on forums and make them all look bad--You're not the "power role" this is not a BDSM relationship with you as a dom, you're not here to "punish the cancer that is SWF" or "want to make them fear you and picture their hope dropping and becoming despair." GET THERAPY YOU DEMENTED FREAKS.

So you basically said, that if a killer gets too good at this game, they will make sure that queue times get increased? bruh moment

joker7997

@Dragonredking said:

no, solo survivor need acces to voice chat and the dev need to balance the game around voice chat being a thing

spending years slowly adding like chase indicator and stuff of the sort to make solo equal to swf is stupid when it can be done with one single change

Yes this

HazeHound

@SureSpear Like they aren't doing it now anyway??

Mochan

@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:

Sure, SWF doesn’t need nerfs. But then many other areas of the game need buffs. The fact of the matter is that the game is not balanced around communicating with other survivors. Also comparing the game to shooters is not logical. This is an asymmetrical 4v1 MP game.

Also basing balance around kills is equally nonsense. If I kill two people at red ranks that’s almost guaranteed to be a depip for me because I play weaker killers. I like to use Trapper. I enjoy Fredward. I have fun with Wraith. But SWF destroys these killers.

Lastly, why the idea that a survivor who died automatically had a bad time? I die as survivor a lot but still pip and still have a good time. You can do other things and pip but end up dying. As killer if you don’t get kills you don’t pip.

And with these weaker killers on these doodoo maps, sometimes the only way to get kills is to play in a manner that those SWF will get salty about 😆

So if dying as a survivor isn't bad, then surely by that same logic not getting a kills as a killer is not bad either.

So there's no need for you to get all sweaty playing like a jerk to get kills.

SureSpear

@HazeHound said:

@SureSpear Like they aren't doing it now anyway??

Exactly. So what is a nerf gonna do besides make that more common?

Face it: playing survivor is a team game. The reason SWF is so "broken" is because it provides a covenient method of communication, no more no less. If more people in solo got their teams in chat, solo would be just as "broken." Four minds are just better than the one. If you think you're playing in to SWF, don't ever ever ever tunnel, keep your patrol going, and try and figure out if anyone in the game is outside the chat. If they are, use them to your advantage: there's a chance they'll lead you right to the swf gen team.