RNG ruins this game.
Too many things in this game rely on RNG, or just factors out of control of the player. Things like Jigsaw Boxes, pallet spans, hatch spawns, totem spawns, where the survivor and killer land on each map, and exit gate spawns. It's why Pig will always be stuck in the place she's in. Don't get me wrong, I think people are too harsh on the Pig and I think she is underrated, but she'll never progress past mid tier as long as her power relies on the RNG of Jigsaw boxes. Same with Exit Gate/HAtch spawns. Both the killer and survivor can be screwed over in the endgame just because of the location of the gates. Did the killer/survivor really deserve that loss/win if it was the game that chose where the exit gates spawn? And same with the spawning locations of each player. So many times have I been playing as survivor and no one played any offering and yet all 4 of us survivors spawn right next to each other. Sure it may be "fair" since the RNG isn't biased one way or another, but the outcome of the game should depend on the skill of each player. The killer should win if they've mastered their killer and played optimally. Survivors should win if they work together as a team and focus on the objective. Killer shouldn't win if one survivor DC's right at the beginning or if they bring a Mori. Survivor shouldn't win if one person brings a key or if the gates are at opposite ends of the map. RNG and luck of the draw tips the balance of the game in ways that it shouldn't, when the balance of the game should depend on the skill of each player. It's not the killers fault if they get matched with a SWF P3 Claudette squad with flashlights, decisive, and adrenaline. Its not the survivors fault if one teammate DC's or if the killer brings an Ebony Mori.
Comments
Jigsaw boxes are not RNG.
How many times do the devs or other people have to say that?
You get a trap and a key is placed/ you get a trap that corresponds to a specific box.
You pick which box.
You pick right or wrong.
That's not RNG in the sense everyone is using it.
It is RNG because it's randomized where the key is placed. There's no way for the survivor or the Pig to know where each key is.
I agree with jigsaw boxes being rng for pig and that it is definitely not even close to perfect but it have to say i may be the lesser of 2 evils cause if everything was set it'll just be up to memorization on where to run to when the hatch spawns or what the most efficient route is to get all totems and to make the best pallet loops it'd get old really fast imo and hex builds would be even worse than they already are.
Please read my entire post before responding.
"In the sense that everyone keeps using it."
It is not RNG like bear traps or skill checks. You ALWAYS have a 1/X chance, to choose correctly, where X is how many boxes exist. But when you choose, the correct answer will not change. After so many attempts you WILL get it off.
It's not a % roll on every attempt to see if you get out.
Whether is matches with exact definition is irreverent. It's a gamble based on luck.
While I agree that the RNG can be gamechanging and extremely frustrating for both sides, I think its an important part that keeps the game interesting. The RNG ensures that you need to adjust to every match. You cant do the same route in a chase like you did the match before. You need to adapt to the new pallet/tiles spawns. It prevents the game from becoming stale, along with the huge variety of killers. I think its a nessecary evil to keep the game alive.
It's not irrelevant when you're trying to use it for this argument about how overly RNG the game is.
Its not based on chance, it's based on choice. Both are based on "luck" which is a made up thing. Superstition.
Adapting to different map layouts and pallet/gen/tile placements, sure. But there's no way to adapt to the gates being spawned right next to or far apart from eachother.
Well then you didn't read the other part of my post. "or just factors out of control of the player." Sure some factors don'y matter like tile placements/arrangements, and the location of assets and what map is played, but the factors that do matter tip the balance of the game.
Right. Having ######### gate placement is bad rng. Taking 15 attempts on an addonless trapper is bad rng. Having 3 hooks withing spitting distance? Amazing or horrible RNG, depending on perspective.
But let's not use RNG on every thing we technically can we trying to structure cohesive arguments about why we need to fix RNG. That's how we get things adjusted that have no part of being messed with.
RNG, Luck, Probability, Odds, call it whatever you like.
it doesn’t matter, the jigsaw boxes aren’t RNG but they can still get it off in the first box if they choose right and the killer will feel robbed, especially if you bring +2 jigsaw boxes and they get it off first box, which is just sad
He's saying you have a 25% chance to pick the correct Jigsaw Box, then 33%, then 50%, then 100%. It's not a roll, but more of you have a certain chance to pick the correct box.
Except, probability and R(random)N(number)G(generator) are two completely different things.
They could also go all game picking the wrong ones.
It is literally the essence of a saw game. Make your choice. Live or die.
Pig sets them up for them to either get it off quickly, or die.
Granted, Amanda rigged her games almost always for failure, but even the entity wont let that happen. Her addons give her more leeway to that end.
But having it gone on the first chance on a good guess is better than everyone having the chance to do it the first guess, due to true RNG.
i agree with you, these are the essence of a jigsaw game, but her reverse bear traps should be more reliable, the fact that a stalling tool relies on the game progressing to activate is rly dumb, they're supposed to stall and only work if the game progresses? because when i play pig on purple/red ranks people with inactive traps will search 1 box and if they fail they'll work on generators because they have enough time to search 3 boxes in 2 and half minutes, actually they might not even need to search 3 boxes in 2 and half minutes, maybe they only need to search 2 because they are unreliable
The only sort of randomization I'd love to see go away is how maps are generated. Like, will I have a god window on this map or not.. shouldn't have to be a 50/50 chance to automatically lose in a trial.
Pig traps are not as RNG as trapper traps but it still plays out almost exactly the same way in the game? You have X boxes to hit, and it's totally random whether or not the route you pick to hit all of them ends on the first box or the last box. There are games I have where people get the traps off on the first try and it may as well not even be a power, and then there are games where multiple people die to head traps. That is about as RNG as it gets.
I love RNG things in any game. It spice things up and make everything more exiting. I would like MORE RNG if posible
A fine balance has to be struck between enough RNG to keep it interesting (replayability), but not so much that the player feels helpless. Things like minimum spawn distance (of pallets, hooks, etc) help a lot with that.
Too much RNG and you get some situations that are impossible no matter how well you play - for instance, if two gates spawned literally next to each other. Not enough RNG and you get a solved game (run this exact path on this map) that will get boring very quickly.
I personally think the RNG has found a good balance between consistency and replayability interest, albeit with necessary tweaking as the game and meta changes.
"if two gates spawned literally next to each other"
This is actually a thing though. Not right next to each other, but there is no minimum distance (or that minimum distance is way too short), because it's very common for both doors to spawn within 40m of each other. If it becomes a hatch closing game then there is no chance for you to get out those gates. Even the slowest killer can patrol them faster than you can open them, which also assumes that you can't just stand in a spot where you can just see both doors anyway.
There are a few occasions where RNG can have a huge impact.
Most popular one clearly being the (hex) totem spawns - allowing Survivors to nullify one (or more) Killer perk(s) at the start of the match has a huge impact. The hatch and the exit gates can also have a big impact (for both sides) but since those only come into play in lategame you at least had a "fair" match until then.
Then there are some RNG things that usually have less impact but still can be game-changing, such as the items you get from chests, amount of skill checks (esp. with ruin), map & layout or the random kobes.
Overall, I think RNG is not an issue apart from the absolutely horrible totem spawns on certain maps.