Why always run Hex: Ruin and NOED?
I was once a rank 1 Killer, and always played off-meta; But now that I’ve decided to play more survivor, I’ beginning to feel how boring it gets when just about every Killer runs the same perks. It’s tiring.
What are your thoughts? Do you (any rank Killer players) feel that these perks are such a necessity? Have you made it to rank 1 without heavy use of these perks.
I’m seriously considering coming out of retirement to show these new age Killers how it’s done.
What are your thoughts? Do you (any rank Killer players) feel that these perks are such a necessity? Have you made it to rank 1 without heavy use of these perks.
I’m seriously considering coming out of retirement to show these new age Killers how it’s done.
Comments
(some trials) When I come across Ruin, I’ll just go on a Hex Hunt with the thought of dying but staying alive as long as I can. Immersion will never die!
I see your point that power wise the speed boost and instadown ease of use is making some killers to reliant on it. But its existence is brought on by many killers having zero late game options available aside from extremely conditional perks. Blood warden requires exit gates be open. Remember me is depending on you killing a specific player.
Monto also has a habit of killing everyone and NOED never procs. Hell, almost every game where he does a NOED build and it procs HE LET THEM just to proc NOED. I respect Monto, and he is using NOED as part of particularly specific builds for entertainment purposes. But it doesn't change the fact that NOED is a crutch for most players. Even True has admitted NOED is a killer crutch perk. If NOED was somehow a perk that you built up over the early parts of the game it would be fair because at least there is some skill in it. It's not just given to you for failing (purposely or not). That's why I love Remember Me. It's a very underrated killer perk that can reward you greatly for going after an obsession AND it has more value in end game potential than NOED since it extends the game as opposed to just giving the killer some ability that turns survivors immersed. I run Ruin and Remember Me on my killers, with the goal to at least find my obsession once before my totem goes down, and it generally works extremely well. As long as I got at least 3 tokens before Ruin goes down and no gens are done, then it's pretty much GG for the survivors. It really is the best perk to counter DS because if you get hit with DS that's just another token you get. The reason no one uses Remember Me though is because it takes some actual skill to make use of it, where NOED takes 0 skill to make use of it. Arguably even "negative" skill in that it is exclusively a comeback mechanic. Hence why I refer to it as a crutch perk.
This is fine as billy or someone with an instadown but some killers are borderline unplayable without it characters like wraith and freddy simply cannot exert enough map pressure if survivors rush gens and don't do totems. If the game slowed down I'd agree with you. However unless survivors make mistakes these killers will not stand a chance of winning as they simply are too immobile. Some add-ons can help these killer but those add-ons tend to be finite.
Tldr a large portion of the killers in the game aren't proactive enough to be viable and need need noed to punish survivors who rush gens and don't get totems.
Meanwhile, Self Care is on every survivor who has popped it in the web. and most of then are running Sprint Burst, and there's at least 1 person with Abusive Strike in every trial.
Survivors don't give us quarter, why should we give it in return?
Dude I see Billy's and Nurse's run NOED all the time, and it's always because they are pure ass at being killer. It's a crutch. Buff those killers and people will STILL use NOED because they are bad. It's almost like clockwork, bad killer barely gets 2 hooks all game and then suddenly NOED. I've played against good killers, any killer, and they don't use NOED let alone need it. The perk is there exclusively to help bad killers, just like DS is there to help bad survivors.
Sorry it doesn't matter how low tier your character is or how bad of a killer you are, the game should not give you insta-down hits for failing. It's a comeback mechanic, pure and simple, and all comeback mechanics are designed to make bad players win when they shouldn't.
IMO Freddy has more potential as gen stalling early game. Do Ruin, Thanatophobia, Dying Light with Black Box and green/pink mori, kill obs in the first 60 seconds of the game, and then you basically ensure the game will last at least another 10 minutes, which with only 3 survivors is pretty much a guaranteed 4k. DL is insanely powerful on Freddy because of Black Box, as he is literally the only killer than can go right to the obsession when the game starts. I personally find playing endgame strat with Freddy to be high risk since he has to wait 7 seconds for anything. The only way it works is if you have 6 tokens of Remember Me and everyone is asleep when the gates are powered. If someone is awake or you don't have full tokens it will prolly be GG for you. Maybe if they buffed Blood Warden to always block the exit when you hook someone after they are open, or if they extend the time to like 90s for tier 3, but right now all Freddy can rely on is Remember Me for endgame. Early game is a lot safer and IMO easier to do, it's just most costly (since you have to use both a pink add-on and a mori).
@thesuicidefox
i've also seen billys with NOED. it was weird as #########.... i main billy and i'm not good with a saw BUT i deal with it. NOED on a billy is just cancer. NOED is for trappers and wraiths and such....
I'm rank 1 survivor, was as high as rank 7 killer (currently 10 because I started to main Huntress and have not played much killer this season until I got good perks for her recently). I'm fully aware of how fast a game can go. 99% of the time when I face a GOOD killer they do not have NOED and still manage a 3k most of the time. Only when the game goes south early on do killers like that lose (eg. surv spawns by Ruin, Entity picks ######### map for killer no offering, etc.). 99% of the time when I face a BAD killer they have NOED, and you can tell they are bad because they don't catch anyone the entire game until NOED procs. That is often their first and only kill. The good killers don't need NOED, even for those games that go south they can still get legit kills if you don't keep the pressure on them. Bad killers it doesn't matter, I can take my sweet ass time doing gens, and I try to do all the totems but when you are solo it's hard to stop other survs from doing gens before totems are gone.
You can give me whatever nonsense you want about how killers get looped, NOED is still a crutch. No matter how you slice it, how much you butter it up, IT IS A CRUTCH BECAUSE IT IS THERE FOR BAD KILLERS. NOED might not be guaranteed, but it is still a comeback mechanic which by virtue of what they do make them crutches.
Also PS, I have NOED on my killers I do play and I don't use it because I'm not going to rely on a crutch. I take my L's, sometimes I wish I did have a NOED at the end, but if I did then I wouldn't become a better killer. I'd just stay where I'm at because I'm constantly relying on NOED to make up the difference for me. I use Remember Me instead, because 1) it's more reliable than NOED, and 2) it actually takes some skill and effort on the part of the killer. The game doesn't just give you 30 seconds on the gate, you have to earn it.
Obviously on nurse and billy its pointless it actually make the killer easier to deal with as the nurse wont be using devour hope or additional gen stalling perks. You have to remember noed is taking up a perk slot. I would prefer a noed nurse to one with pop goes the weasel or make your choice. Survivours like yourself push for this idea that noed is a crutch perk not realizing your contributing to a stagnant meta of nurse and billy. Fk me is billy a crutch killer? He has an instadown so poor time management is developed whilst playing him. Is nurse a crutch killer teaching killers to ignore pallet mechanics. Seriously your argument is ridiculous.
Sometimes in a game you need to shore up your weaknesses instead of enhancing your strengths. This breeds unpredictability and as a killer that how you get survivor mistakes you can capitalize on. Hell this strategy got me to rank 1 when i decided to play myers instead of the top 3 killers. No one was prepared for a zero terror radius myers with nurses and as a result were utterly annihilated. In the end a four man or 2 man kill is a kill. Who cares how you achieved victory as long as your not cheating. Lord knows survivors need variety and having killers like pig and trapper see high tier play with the help of these perks is a healthy position for this game.
Remember this comeback mechanic is being used on killers who have extremely low comeback potential when behind. The nurse and billy can comeback from the game much easier due to high mobility. Same cannot be said about others.
Very specific build requires a mori. It also a really cheesy strat that focus your attention on a single survivor. You better hope there not good at stealth or are not extremely good loopers with an swf team behind them because if that's the case your screwed. Also a bad habit to focus a single survivor down its a really bad to tunnel in higher ranks as they will stick heavily loopable spots like shacks and buildings. Fun as a meme build but reinforces terrible play. Tunneling is really bad as I repeatedly mentioned it makes the killer predictable. Predictability breeds weakness which survivors will exploit. People like tyde and monto have run build like these and even with moris the strat is extremely hard to execute as the survivor is made aware they are being targeted. Also class photo is way better then black box as you can continue to track your obsession throughout the match. Look up any tyde,monto video on these builds it usually gets virtually no use.
I mean, not every trial consists of rank 1 SWF/teamspeak teams. But it doesn’t stop Most Killers from playing like it. It’s... predictable.
Now of course, players can still play whatever way they want, and some/most can still have fun. But playing “your way” sometimes won’t give you good results most of the time; And based upon the Community threads and reactions, we seem frustrated.
Ruin should be baked into the game, and NOED and Decisive Strike could both be removed. I honestly don't think one-hit down mechanics should really exist, especially at the spam-tacular levels that Hillbilly and Leatherface have them, but they're going to keep existing as long as this back-and-forth balance goes on.
The core game needs to change on both sides. Killers shouldn't feel like they're at the mercy of how long Ruin lasts, or a last resort NOED proc. Survivors don't need Decisive Strike to stay alive. The whole reason DS is even hated is because a killer works for his down, and then you get away with no risk to anyone else, and that wouldn't be a problem if the time killers sometimes invest into getting that down wasn't obscene.
Sprint Burst is definitely too strong compared to its competitors, and Vigil just makes it absolutely broken, but a weak Bloodlust mechanic isn't helping killers, either.
So much should change...
Until the devs do something about gens being completed so fast because ruin is a needed perk at the ranks of 5-1... I don't wanna see the devs just make gens longer though add in objectives... make checkpoints on the gens and then have them have to find a part or gas... make 1 out of the 5 gens 1 that you can't fix and it constantly explodes until the killer kicks it and the survivor has to find they need to repair the gen... now my only problem with this idea is how does this effect Billy and Nurse games... either way something needs to be done about the genrush tactic... maybe only have 2 objectives that can't be ignored such as finding parts or gas that a gen needs... because if there were 5 side objectives that could take some time finding the items you need a billy or nurse would actually be broken maybe.. Thoughts?
Do you rush the gens and hope the killer doesnt have noed? Do you not rush the gens and instead look for totems just in case he has it?
The choice is the survivor's. If they gamble and lose its their own fault when they have a surefire way of preventing it.
The common thread they have with NOED is they cover up mistakes you made in the game, that is the very epitome of a crutch if we're going to use the same argument against NOED.
guys be careful he's going to show us new age killers how it's done
i cant wait to learn what this master killer has to say to us.
I don't use NOED but you literally stand no chance if you don't have Ruin.
Ruin is easily the most required perk in the game. If you don't have it, forget thinking you're going to ever win.
First part is why to ruin, the second part is why run noed. thanks generator jake
Your asking "those" survivors to have an actual thought about how to inteligently play the game.
YOU ARE ASKING TOO MUCH MAN TOO MUCH.
I personally have started playing the game where I sit infront of ruin the entire game and force low ranking survivors to learn how to just do the gens and not run around for 8 minutes trying to find the totem when you can easily just do a gen...
The NOED ruin nurse got a single kill, I think the game lasted about 4 mins max
One god damn killer. Seriously whenever we encounter a balance issue the answer is to make a god damn perks or killer to deal with the problem. It ridiculous. Not to mention unnerving on anyone but doc makes gens rush faster as your giving more survivors skill checks which means more great skill check which means more faster gen repair. As for juggling man are your ds players that stupid they'll die next to a hook. Hell even if you do juggle, someone can body block to give them the chance to get it off. Ffs guys unnerving presence is a bad perk stop running it on your killers your giving survivors more great skill checks only doc can really utilize it and sometimes even then it wont work.
You want to see experimentation then champion the nerf's to these blatantly broken perks. Honestly we should see changes to ds and sprint burst. But until then I will use anything in my power to give me a chance at winning. I don't care for a meme build that is just gonna lose me game after game because I didn't include ruin or what other meta perks.
Not saying the killers shouldn’t be powerful but the survivor shouldn’t be complete wimps either. The problem lies in that survivors are TOO weak at losing the killer but TOO strong at distracting the killer (saw somebody say this on the forums, just don’t remember who). Honestly the 2-3 times survivors use an exhaustion perk in one chase shouldn’t happen if survivors were stronger at hiding from the killer but weaker at distracting the killer. The point of the game is stealthing and hiding on the survivors side but you see 5 minute tunneling/chases because rarely is hiding a viable option. You rarely can lose the killer but can loop for ages. Survivors should have a better chance at losing the killer then they do, but shouldn’t be as strong at looping/distracting.