Has anyone seen Cross-Examination much since it was added?

Rokku_Rorru

In my killer games I think I've seen it once, considering people were doom posting about it, it's not really as problematic as people made out lol

Watch it still get nerfed into oblivion, while Hex: Jason is left untouched.

I fear the episode will not be over until the kill streaks are finished…

Back to the point though, are you finding Cross-Examination in your games? Has it lost you any matches?

Nazzzak

@cogsturning said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096698#Comment_4096698

The thing is I don't care about this perk at all. I didn't care about Fast Track either but I still argued against the nerf because I think this community has a pattern of getting caught up in a tornado of echo chambers and hyperbolic parasocial panicking. We doom and gloom about every little new thing while also saying the meta is stale. The meta isn't going to be changed by nerfing literally anything that comes along. Even fog vials, which were mid on release but still had the potential to change things, we're nuked because of whining. People always say they want change but they clearly don't because they won't allow it to even occur.

Now i havnt used it as a survivor yet, so im open to having my mind changed whether through using it or engaging with it as a killer, but it sure seems scary and the encounter i do know i had with it was not fun.

You're basing this on a single experience? Maybe it should be a bit more than that. If I was going to rail for against a perk, I'd test it thoroughly in customs or on pubs. It's one reason I'm not very passionate about this (Fast Track i at least played with and against a lot). CE is so far a non-entity and will be even more so after the nerf. We're arguing about a perk that's already doomed.

But again, what your describing is already in the game. If I hit someone with Lucky Break and they disappear around a corner, my chase is over. They're rewarded for me landing a hit. I am that Lucky Break user, and I escape about 90% of my first chases before the killer realizes I'm running it and smarten up. There's another point too. If this perk became common killers would get used to spotting it and adjust quickly. We have this same issue recently with the Black Banquet. Everyone knee-jerked about how bad it was immediatly and didn't wait to figure out how to work around the survivor effects.

I don't think 4.4 on ranged killers should change but yeah, it doesn't feel great in the moment a lot of the time. My problem is the SBers. Huntress does at least have the ability to get crazy crossmap shots with skilled players. I main Henry and if they pre run with SB to the other side of the map when I don't have undergate available I just can't even be bothered to slowly float after them. I'm not trying to complain about my A tier killer who I do fine with stats-wise but I get the idea of the micro not feeling good even if the macro results are solid.

"People always say they want change but they clearly don't because they won't allow it to even occur"

cogsturning

@HexSlugged said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096737#Comment_4096737

maybe its egotistical but i have played the game off and on for 10 years and i "think" i am pretty good at have even headed opinions(except when im being bodied by a survivor team in game lol) and while you are not wrong in that personal experience(in some ways) is a better way to form an opinion i think thats not necessarily required with someone at my level of game knowledge (not that it means i am 100% right or right at all)

there are easily 50 perks we could both name that are useless in game and we have never even used them. Now we dont have to have used them to know they are useless. we know they are useless intuitively because we didnt boot the game up for the first time and we understand what numbers equal to more or less.

This is how i feel with CE.

I think i understand the game and chase enough to recognize issues with it even if i dont have alot of experience personally.

that being said to be clear my mind can always be changed but with my experience and my game knowledge i just dont see this perk not being old dead hard problematic(worse actually, old dead hard wasnt THAAAAAAAAT bad tho it did need a nerf) if adopted large scale with people who understand the fundamentals of the game.

I also like to form opinions and argue for things even if it doesnt directly impact me. I do care about other people experiences.

for example, i have no issue with tunneling and camping. killers have every right to do it. but i also understand thats not a fun experience for the person its being done to and ive had it done to me. SO i do not try to tunnel or camp unless i believe its the smartest move in the moment but i dont want people to be miserable so if they arent playing dirty but my main build on killers can get very nasty if i need it to (the third seal, ruin, thrill and undying tho i will make changes but my builds really rely around the third seal, i truly believe its a completely slept on perk and can be one of the strongest perks in the game excluding comms.

I know that slugging a person when it isnt needed isnt fun. its valid, but not fun and i have empathy so i wont seek to remove someone fun intentionally.

same as with perks. even if idc about the perk or it doesnt affect me directly ill still form an opinion and argue for or against it if i have sufficient info to do so.

the difference is (imo) between a coordinated team and this stack on ateam is literally how powerful this can be with competent loopers. the swf parts irrelevant so far in my calculations, its simply what can a confident looper do with this perk on especially if added with a comms team that knows what they are doing.

With swf teams if they arent the overly altruistic type(which while insanely annoying is also easiest to beat) taking the tools they all have already and add in the ability to get out of chase "free" so easily with no cool down and no real limitations when it comes to how loops themselves are set up with TL walls and other square tiles, buildings, or indoor maps.

Does ce matter at a half height loop? not at all. on lerys or some of the mains or auto haven type tiles, i see CE as being insanely 1 sided when used by people who can already loop well. If the perk remained as is and did not become meta then not that big of a deal to me. if this perk as it is became meta and multiple people used it per match like they do other perks im quite scared for the future of my chases because for better or for worse i have spend 1— years understanding chase to work a certain way and here comes a perk that completely upends that. if i could turn chase music down so that i can really focus on environmental sounds i genuinely would be more likely to be ok with the perk existing because i can and have killed people over hearing footsteps. but man its really hard to catch it at times when your hearing pots and pans smashed together in your eardrum at max volume.

as another aside, just wanted to say i enjoy talking with you. ive read many of your posts and you have never been spiteful or rude as much of the community has been (i have been a bit snarky at times myself tho i dont approve of myself doing that) and even though we have different perspectives i find this to be a good quality conversation and i do appreciate your perspective.

I mean, basing it on your overall experience is half of it. We have a lot of people in the forum who seem to barely play the game based on things they say and hours they post, yet they tend to agree with their favorite CC or go along with the mass uproar if it favors their preferred role. I just think the other half is allowing something to exist for a little while and seeing where it goes, and maybe letting it steer the game in different directions.

we know they are useless intuitively because we didnt boot the game up for the first time and we understand what numbers equal to more or less.

I think this does work better with bad perks. Some yeah, you can just read the description and know that it ain't the one. There are perks people sleep on too though. I tend to run off meta and I do fine. Those perks are less predictable when everyone runs the same 15 perks all the time, and a lack of relealizing what I'm ruining in time to counter it often wins me matches on both sides.

I also like to form opinions and argue for things even if it doesnt directly impact me. I do care about other people experiences.

I do this too, particularly for soloq and newer players, but it's stil based on my personal experiences and understanding. I'm not saying you shouldn't advocate for or against things that don't affect you, I'm saying your views shouldn't mirror a CC or a mass opinon just because it's the current view. I'm also not saying you are, I'm just saying it shouldn't be a thing. I also can't stand it when people with 500 hours go "but what about my favorite upper MMR CC? It's so hard for them." Ok, so? Is it hard for you? Is this your job? I get being upset that your 100 hour friend is getting tunneled and wants to quit and using that to understand how lopsided and discouraging this game can be, but I don't get using higher-hour money-making players with motives and bias as an example.

my builds really rely around the third seal, i truly believe its a completely slept on perk and can be one of the strongest perks in the game excluding comms.

I'm pretty glad it's slept on. I think it's a despicable perk and Blindness is a status effect that should not exist. People going second or being left slugged because their teammates simply don't know where they are is horribly unfair.

This is kind of ironic though, isn't it? You're favoirte perk is one that can create some very unfair situations that are pretty hard to counter, kinda like Elusive in chase. I think a lot of perks are pretty damn unfair. Me downing two people through a floor because of Nurse's Calling is unfair too. This game is more random than fair.

If the perk remained as is and did not become meta then not that big of a deal to me

That's the problem though. It's getting nerfed right out the gate. It'll never have a chance to be meta. And Iike I said, a new meta on survivor could lead to a new meta on killer. But it won't if nothing ever changes.

And thanks. Amicable conversations are always good. That was the idea of forums before social media melted everyone's brains. There's plenty of snark in my lengthy catalog of posts, but not during a proper talk.

Wyndsor

@Nazzzak said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096708#Comment_4096708

"People always say they want change but they clearly don't because they won't allow it to even occur"

https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MPAXHUSZFKK2/1000014585.gif

Seriously, cogs is easily one of the best posters on this forum rn. Full glaze.

Zakon05

If it helps, every time I have seen it, it has been incredibly impactful.

Quite bluntly, most survivors aren't looping in a way that would make this perk strong. The overwhelming majority run to pallets, maybe do one loop around it if it's safe or camp it and then drop it.

So the only people who know how good it is and how to use it are the ones running it.

But then those people don't actually want the killer to get lost chasing them, because then the killer will pivot to one of their worse allies and they actually like being chased.

So you need to be a combination of good, with team mates you trust, and you don't mind the killer losing you and leaving you to go back to sitting on gens.

LordGlint

@Aven_Fallen said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096661#Comment_4096661

Yeah, thats the issue. Aside from Springtrap, every Killer released for quite some time has been a powercrept version of previous Killers. E.g. Dracula is an example, I have no problem with Dracula, but it cannot be denied that he has more going on than other Killers.

I also dont understand some design choices. E.g. why Jason lets the Survivors scream despite them using Perks to avoid screaming or when they are in Lockers. Sure, crouching as counterplay exists, but if I look at Doctor for example, who has a large chunk of his power resolve around screaming, he might get 0 information from Survivors just being in Lockers on his static blast, which also has a lengthy cooldown.

Or Huntress, who is a fine Killer, but is 4,4 m/s and has to spend time reloading, while Jason is 4,6 (only 4,4 on paper) and can reload without spending much time and therefore without losing much distance. (Let alone that Huntress has one of the worst map mobilities while Jason has one of the best)

A quick note regarding the Jason screaming... that might actually be for the SURVIVORS benefit. Jason already gets killer instinct. If you didnt scream, he'd still know your location. The only thing that would change is you wouldn't KNOW he knows your location since there's no way to know you have killer instinct otherwise.

MDRSan

I have had exactly one match since its release where I suspected it might have been in use but it turned out it was just Lucky Break. If it's been used in any matches against me it hasn't made enough of a difference for me to notice. People going literally invisible during the event - that'll get you out of chase with me. Going elusive? At least not often enough for me to remember a single example of it happening.

cogsturning

I played 10 matches tonight. Saw it 3 times:

All deaths, all 3 or 4ks for me. Not much of a sample but I remain unconcerned.