Can we please do something about this 2 survivor scenario?! It is really boring to deal with.

EmpireCity830 · June 6, 2026

There are 2 survivors left. Killer downs 1 of them then searches the whole map for other one. It is a waste of time and not very engaging. Give the downed survivor a way to insta-die after like 15s-20s of being downed. It gives the last survivor a fair chance at escaping. Otherwise its an automatic win for killer with everyone DCing when the last survivor is found. There really isn't another way to counter this currently, at least not one that I can think of.

HexSlugged · June 10, 2026

@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086193#Comment_4086193
Have they ever stated that its intended? Does anything state anywhere that its intended? I don't think they have. People are so quick to say things like "the devs don't understand why people slug more on gideon" but here you think this is intended? I think they don't change it solely because they know there is a large cohort of people that cannot stand a match ending with them getting anything less than a 4k and those players would kick up a huge fuss about it.
It is never on either of the survivor, it can't be, they are not the one choosing to create the situation and its ridiculous to put any blame on them. I'm not going to blame someone with no power in the situation for not picking me up, I am going to blame the person putting us all into that situation, its illogical to do anything else.
It is not selfish to want to move on when I have been slugged for the 4k, you can't even give me a reason why that is selfish, how does that even make sense? What about it is selfish? Whereas I can point directly at the slugged survivor and state that the killer is choosing to waste that persons time because of their selfish desire for a 4k.
You're not even engaging with any of my arguments at this point just saying that I'm wrong while spouting nonsense. How am I removing my teammates ability to potentially escape? How are they supposed to pick me up in such a way that we can continue the match and not just fall into a cycle of pickup → slug → pickup → slug? Its an unreasonable expectation. Me being there is the primary thing preventing them from potentially escaping, complete nonsense.
It is selfish of the killer only and they are the only person being a poor sportsman.

if that had been an unintended and undesired emergent behavior it would have been addressed by them sometime within the last 10 years just as they have addressed other undesired emergent behaviors (you being satisfied by it is a differnt story) They have changed other things that are very divisive so claiming that because some people wouldnt like it is not a valid point to make here as they have a decade of making changes that upset people.

2. if your team mate leaves you for 4 mins on the ground without picking you up and the killer isnt standing over your body, thats on your team mate. the game was in progress and you were savable. the game was not over, hence why 3 people were still in an ongoing match. Something being annoying or boring to you is not the same thing as being disrespectful or poor sportsmanship.

3. almost every action you do is selfish. Slefish actions are fine, it has a bad connotation but you can not engage in life without selfish behavior.

Killers and survivors both want to win and as such want the opposition to lose. That is both want a more positive outcome for their individual self than for the opposition. This isnt really arguable. Its objectively selfish and the game can not exist if neither side is selfish and desires a better outcome for themselves than the opponents. this is simply what competition is.

4. Amusing you say im not engaging with your arguments when i have directly addressed them. You not likeing or agreeing with what i said doesnt magically mean im not addressing you. you just arent compelled by my reasoning which is fine but dont go making up lies dude lol.

5. well for 1 survs could stop picking each other up in the killers face, that would be a great start.

the killer isnt trying to waste your time (for most i assume anywasy like myself in the times i do slug) they are trying to win via a 4k. preventing the 4th person from escaping by triggering the pity portal is completely valid and i dont think you have any real justification that someone shouldnt try to do that if they want.

at MOST its 4 mins if your team mate does nothing but run in a circle and achieve nothing. In reality you will either be picked up or the other guy will be downed within 1-2 minutes.

complaining about a 1-2 minute wait every once in a while is a little entitled. if you were left there for 10 or 15 minutes or something or that the game wasnt actually progressing while your downed your position would hold more validity.

Survivors waste killers time when standing in the end gate when they have won. but you cant or shouldnt take action against that (as much as it annoys me when people dont just leave) because the game is still progress able. either the timer or the killer can force the game to end.

in the same way, your team (this is a team game for survs) you are there to be a support for your team and vice versa even if your slugged on the ground and even if your team mates are trash.

your welcome to abandon your team mate and fellow players but that IS bad sportmanship hence why there is a DC penalty.

if the devs felt otherwise they wouldnt have excluded this from all the other abandon features that happen when the game is ACTUALLY lost.

if your slugged anmd your team mate is still up you are LOSING but you have not LOST hence why you dont get to DC without penalty.

check your tik tok or whatever for 2 mins if you really cant be bothered to not tap buttons for a minute or 2.

Hatch doesnt even count as a win, so if you have 2 gens left and 1 guy left or 2 guys left and 1s slugged why not just immediately end the game instead of playing it out?

or 1 or 2k for killers isnt a win, should a killer just stop playing when its clear they can not achieve a 3k?

you signed up with 4 other people to play a game. its bad sportmanship to abandon game before the match is over.

Nicholas · June 10, 2026

@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085141#Comment_4085141
Because it isn't a win for the survivor, its a safety valve for the match to end by giving them something to try for instead of just hiding.
There are also scenarios where the survivor does in fact deserve that escape and it wasn't zero effort. I have been the last survivor standing because the killer was completely unable to catch me in chase, my team went down but I didn't. These still regularly turn out in the killers favor since they either slug for the 4k or just find hatch before I do. Before the abandon update that scenario regularly had the killer hump you as if they beat you. Killer ego IS the problem in these scenarios.

Exactly, I love how people always call the Hatch a zero-effort win for Survivors. What about those Trials where the gens are completed by two Survivors, but one gets slugged doing a gate? If the last one gets Hatch, is that a free escape/win? I posted about this very issue over six years ago, and still nothing has been done.

The devs are usually more concerned with The Killer's experience and perspective, which is the issue.

Old post for those interested: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/146093/since-nothing-can-change-the-outcome-is-a-thing-when-can-we-insta-bleed-out-when-slugged

FerrousFacade · June 10, 2026

@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086214#Comment_4086214
if that had been an unintended and undesired emergent behavior it would have been addressed by them sometime within the last 10 years just as they have addressed other undesired emergent behaviors (you being satisfied by it is a differnt story) They have changed other things that are very divisive so claiming that because some people wouldnt like it is not a valid point to make here as they have a decade of making changes that upset people.
2. if your team mate leaves you for 4 mins on the ground without picking you up and the killer isnt standing over your body, thats on your team mate. the game was in progress and you were savable. the game was not over, hence why 3 people were still in an ongoing match. Something being annoying or boring to you is not the same thing as being disrespectful or poor sportsmanship.
3. almost every action you do is selfish. Slefish actions are fine, it has a bad connotation but you can not engage in life without selfish behavior.
Killers and survivors both want to win and as such want the opposition to lose. That is both want a more positive outcome for their individual self than for the opposition. This isnt really arguable. Its objectively selfish and the game can not exist if neither side is selfish and desires a better outcome for themselves than the opponents. this is simply what competition is.
4. Amusing you say im not engaging with your arguments when i have directly addressed them. You not likeing or agreeing with what i said doesnt magically mean im not addressing you. you just arent compelled by my reasoning which is fine but dont go making up lies dude lol.
5. well for 1 survs could stop picking each other up in the killers face, that would be a great start.
the killer isnt trying to waste your time (for most i assume anywasy like myself in the times i do slug) they are trying to win via a 4k. preventing the 4th person from escaping by triggering the pity portal is completely valid and i dont think you have any real justification that someone shouldnt try to do that if they want.
at MOST its 4 mins if your team mate does nothing but run in a circle and achieve nothing. In reality you will either be picked up or the other guy will be downed within 1-2 minutes.
complaining about a 1-2 minute wait every once in a while is a little entitled. if you were left there for 10 or 15 minutes or something or that the game wasnt actually progressing while your downed your position would hold more validity.
Survivors waste killers time when standing in the end gate when they have won. but you cant or shouldnt take action against that (as much as it annoys me when people dont just leave) because the game is still progress able. either the timer or the killer can force the game to end.
in the same way, your team (this is a team game for survs) you are there to be a support for your team and vice versa even if your slugged on the ground and even if your team mates are trash.
your welcome to abandon your team mate and fellow players but that IS bad sportmanship hence why there is a DC penalty.
if the devs felt otherwise they wouldnt have excluded this from all the other abandon features that happen when the game is ACTUALLY lost.
if your slugged anmd your team mate is still up you are LOSING but you have not LOST hence why you dont get to DC without penalty.
check your tik tok or whatever for 2 mins if you really cant be bothered to not tap buttons for a minute or 2.
Hatch doesnt even count as a win, so if you have 2 gens left and 1 guy left or 2 guys left and 1s slugged why not just immediately end the game instead of playing it out?
or 1 or 2k for killers isnt a win, should a killer just stop playing when its clear they can not achieve a 3k?
you signed up with 4 other people to play a game. its bad sportmanship to abandon game before the match is over.

You can't find them saying its intended, so many things have gone unaddressed this just happens to be one of them. BHVR quite clearly focuses updates on things that make money, thus even if they want to change it its incredibly low on their priority list.
The killer doesn't need to be standing on top of me, getting me up is not going to work. Its not hard to keep track of the incredibly slow moving slug while looking for the last survivor. You cannot blame someone that did not make the choice to put us in that position.
Selfish actions (keyword right there) require you to make a choice, to do something, I am not choosing to be forced to do nothing when I am trying to game. The killer is choosing to do that. The killer is the one taking an action against another for their own personal desires, I can't be selfish for wanting to move on after that happens. As the person taking the action only the killer can. There is nothing wrong with wanting a 4k, as I have said many times, there is something wrong when you take actions that harm (yes incredibly minor but still harm) others to achieve it.
Nothing in your previous comment engaged with anything I said, the ones before that did. You just claim its intended with no proof, blame teammates for whats happening when they have zero say in the matter, claim I am the one being selfish while its the killers actions that lead to the situation, and then try to turn the argument around on me with nonsense about how wanting the killer to not leave me with nothing to do is selfish or that not wanting to sit slugged for up to four minutes makes me a poor sportsman. Ask a football player if they would be ok with their opponent making their team sit at half field and do nothing while that opponent scores points against their team, you would get laughed at.
We are talking about a 2v1 situation, someone will be found moments after the slug is picked up whether or not its in the killers face, and even once someone is up unless there is almost no gen progress left to complete (unlikely) then you end up in that cycle. I should not be forced to go do something else while trying to play a game, its a ridiculous ask.

As for the time, I literally bled out to a slug for the 4k twice last evening. In one my teammate did get me up but guess what I went back down shortly afterwards and with two gens left there was no getting out of that. All getting me up did was extend the stupid situation, congrats, should have just left me on the ground. If there are two survivors up we have lost and can no longer win, capitalization doesn't change that.

There is no situation where the killer becomes unable to play the game. On top of that killers have many chances to start a snowball that wins them the match up to the point where all survivors are truly safe, I have done it many times and I would bet you have too. In a 2v1, the survivors cannot win, trying to turn the argument around doesn't work because the roles are incredibly different.

Hatch not counting as a win is exactly my point. Why is it ok for the killer to cause harm to someone else (again minor) to deny a not a win? Why is it ok to ask the survivor to endure that harm (again minor) so that the killer can get a 4k? No argument you could possibly make can justify that.

FerrousFacade · June 10, 2026

@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085146#Comment_4085146
Exactly, I love how people always call the Hatch a zero-effort win for Survivors. What about those Trials where the gens are completed by two Survivors, but one gets slugged doing a gate? If the last one gets Hatch, is that a free escape/win? I posted about this very issue over six years ago, and still nothing has been done.
The devs are usually more concerned with The Killer's experience and perspective, which is the issue.
Old post for those interested: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/146093/since-nothing-can-change-the-outcome-is-a-thing-when-can-we-insta-bleed-out-when-slugged

Ya, a part of me is hoping the guy I am arguing with can actually find evidence that BHVR intended slug for the 4k. If they do it would be the perfect counter to anyone that claims they only care about the survivor role or are all a bunch of survivor mains. Not that people saying things like that are likely to be making arguments in good faith in the first place but I really don't think there would be any way to say they favor survivors if the slug for the 4k loophole is intended.

HexSlugged · June 10, 2026

@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086291#Comment_4086291
You can't find them saying its intended, so many things have gone unaddressed this just happens to be one of them. BHVR quite clearly focuses updates on things that make money, thus even if they want to change it its incredibly low on their priority list.
The killer doesn't need to be standing on top of me, getting me up is not going to work. Its not hard to keep track of the incredibly slow moving slug while looking for the last survivor. You cannot blame someone that did not make the choice to put us in that position.
Selfish actions (keyword right there) require you to make a choice, to do something, I am not choosing to be forced to do nothing when I am trying to game. The killer is choosing to do that. The killer is the one taking an action against another for their own personal desires, I can't be selfish for wanting to move on after that happens. As the person taking the action only the killer can. There is nothing wrong with wanting a 4k, as I have said many times, there is something wrong when you take actions that harm (yes incredibly minor but still harm) others to achieve it.
Nothing in your previous comment engaged with anything I said, the ones before that did. You just claim its intended with no proof, blame teammates for whats happening when they have zero say in the matter, claim I am the one being selfish while its the killers actions that lead to the situation, and then try to turn the argument around on me with nonsense about how wanting the killer to not leave me with nothing to do is selfish or that not wanting to sit slugged for up to four minutes makes me a poor sportsman. Ask a football player if they would be ok with their opponent making their team sit at half field and do nothing while that opponent scores points against their team, you would get laughed at.
We are talking about a 2v1 situation, someone will be found moments after the slug is picked up whether or not its in the killers face, and even once someone is up unless there is almost no gen progress left to complete (unlikely) then you end up in that cycle. I should not be forced to go do something else while trying to play a game, its a ridiculous ask.
As for the time, I literally bled out to a slug for the 4k twice last evening. In one my teammate did get me up but guess what I went back down shortly afterwards and with two gens left there was no getting out of that. All getting me up did was extend the stupid situation, congrats, should have just left me on the ground. If there are two survivors up we have lost and can no longer win, capitalization doesn't change that.
There is no situation where the killer becomes unable to play the game. On top of that killers have many chances to start a snowball that wins them the match up to the point where all survivors are truly safe, I have done it many times and I would bet you have too. In a 2v1, the survivors cannot win, trying to turn the argument around doesn't work because the roles are incredibly different.
Hatch not counting as a win is exactly my point. Why is it ok for the killer to cause harm to someone else (again minor) to deny a not a win? Why is it ok to ask the survivor to endure that harm (again minor) so that the killer can get a 4k? No argument you could possibly make can justify that.

your writing is much better than mine! also i want to preface since we are clearly on 2 different positions that i hold no hostility or ire towards you even though i can come off blunt or insensitive. So I just want to make sure that you are aware i am talking to you with these long messages because i enjoy talking to you, not because i want to show you up or ypur some enemy of mine.

i do not think its reasonable to hold a position for them to have a mechanic for 9 years in the game that they did not want in the game that has an unintended game interaction and then not only never change it but then go around in in all sorts of adjacent and change those mechanics and say "we want to change certain game actions" and also want to do that with the final slug and not implement any change to that or discuss it. It is far more reasonable to infer that they dont see that as a problematic and an unexpected emergent game behavior as if they did at some point it would have been handled to remove it or lower its impact as they have done with a a bunch of other unintended mechanics and game interactions.

2. if you want to decrease the game experience of other people in the match to heighten your own experience (i.e. abandon your team mate and other players mid match because you dont want to sit there not doing anything for a couple mins) that is by definition selfish. which is OK to be selfish, im only stating that you cant say another person playing their game with the goal to win and utilising a strategy (non rule breaking) is being selfish because they dont want to play less effectively because you are bothered by a minute or 2 of lowered(you ar able to game interact while slugged) game interactivity or boredom.

3. one of my favorite activities to do when im in that situation is to slu crawl away, if the killer isnt proxying you you can absolutely crawl away and get out of sight within 15 seconds. ive done it dozens and dozens of time(i find slugNseek fun) but most of the time killers are chasing the mori so they leave you alone and dont remain on your body (ime)

4. Occam's razor would suggest that bhvr is aware of that mechanic and if they found it problematic or against game design they would have included that in the slug patches and qol passes they did. it takes more leaps and assumptions to conclude that they are aware of this, not talking about it but internally thinking its not an intended mechanic. why are you assuming they feel this way?

5. i agree this is likely the case in nearly all circumstances but the game still isnt over and a comeback i still possible even if its only a 4 percent chance (hopefully you get that tongue in cheek reference lol) and there is still a chance you can come back and escape. i have done so, not often but a few times it has, or ive at least been able to be part of how team mates escaped even if it was lost for me.

I want to reiterate here that ia m not pro slugging (sluggings fine if you dont over due it or being a jerk about it) in that i have a "get slugged loser" mindset (im aware my username may indicate otherwise) i do care about peoples fun and i do not slug the 3rd for the 4th (most of the time, in competitive matches where all of us are trying, i will because im trying to win) vast majority of the time i let the last 1 or 2 go (i let 2 people go twice last night) and i dont enjoy being slugged and left instead of hooked, i roll my eyes when it happens.

But my point is is that even tho its boring and it sucks, it is part of the games design, clearly is intentional or at the very least tolerated and not seen as a tactic that needs to be removed and i dont think its good for the game to add more ways for people to just dc when a game isnt going the way they want, we already have a major problem with that.

But if that were to be changed and you could abandon, i wouldnt personally complain because its an issue that wouldnt really be impacting me, i just get the DC whenever i down someone faster than they want or they dont like my killer choice or the wind blows or whatever happens in these games lol. I just am not convinced that there is an argument to be made to abandon a game just because you feel like you cant win and dont want to wait a couple minutes.

TheTom20 · June 10, 2026

Best to go by a hook an say hook me mr killer

esarraf · June 11, 2026

@TheTom20 said:
Best to go by a hook an say hook me mr killer

Then they just slug you for four minutes to find the other guy.

Sauroth · June 11, 2026

@Andrix_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086063#Comment_4086063
I know exactly how it worked, I'm a 2017 player. I didn't mention any of it because it would have made my post as long as Wall Maria
Let me ask you in reverse. In 0-kill games, have you ever seen a survivor spontaneously sacrifice for the killer to make him feel better? Why would you expect the killer to spare the last survivor? The entitlement here is absurd.
Of course the precedent iteration of hatch had issues, (mainly caused by how broken keys were back then) but at least it was a consistent mechanic. Now it's just plain ugly rng.
The problem here is that the mechanics of hatch are forcing Killers to play toxic to get 4k, because otherwise they'd simply rely on rng. Which is not fun.
The only problem with hatch being visible was the existence of keys which allowed survivor to escape way earlier. That's why I suggested to make it not-accessible until 2v1.

I always give my survivor life up, when 3 others escape (if the killer didn't camp or slug).. and sometimes even drop a pallet or two for few extra points.. I don't even need the points or to escape at this point in the game, I really don't, I have almost all characters and perks.. or if the game was really fun, I just sacrifice myself, even if the killer takes me to the gate.. I always try to reward good sportsmanship.. especially if the killer tried its best to chase us around, and never gave up.. it's not a pity move, it's just my way of showing appreciation towards someone who is actively engaged in making the game desirable for both sides.. unfortunately 95% of the games in what it's called "high MMR" are just sweaty campers and sluggers for the 4k.. yes, I know there are toxic SWFs who actually ruin the games of many innocent killers, but today if you've looped the killer for more than 20 seconds, you are automatically camped for the rest of the game.. not because they want to get rid if good competition, I've literally talked to many of them in the end, and they said I was annoying or toxic.. FOR JUST LOOPING… I never use flashlights or even hindered perks, I'm not even a good looper.. I've been witnessing this "entitlement" discussion for more than 7 years of playing this game.. and everyone is fighting each other, while the actual responsible people for the game, don't even care to read these words.. people have been begging for anti-camping, anti-slugging since the beginning of the game.. here we are 10 years later, releasing more skins and perks that nobody asked for…

FerrousFacade · June 11, 2026

@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086311#Comment_4086311
your writing is much better than mine! also i want to preface since we are clearly on 2 different positions that i hold no hostility or ire towards you even though i can come off blunt or insensitive. So I just want to make sure that you are aware i am talking to you with these long messages because i enjoy talking to you, not because i want to show you up or ypur some enemy of mine.
i do not think its reasonable to hold a position for them to have a mechanic for 9 years in the game that they did not want in the game that has an unintended game interaction and then not only never change it but then go around in in all sorts of adjacent and change those mechanics and say "we want to change certain game actions" and also want to do that with the final slug and not implement any change to that or discuss it. It is far more reasonable to infer that they dont see that as a problematic and an unexpected emergent game behavior as if they did at some point it would have been handled to remove it or lower its impact as they have done with a a bunch of other unintended mechanics and game interactions.
2. if you want to decrease the game experience of other people in the match to heighten your own experience (i.e. abandon your team mate and other players mid match because you dont want to sit there not doing anything for a couple mins) that is by definition selfish. which is OK to be selfish, im only stating that you cant say another person playing their game with the goal to win and utilising a strategy (non rule breaking) is being selfish because they dont want to play less effectively because you are bothered by a minute or 2 of lowered(you ar able to game interact while slugged) game interactivity or boredom.
3. one of my favorite activities to do when im in that situation is to slu crawl away, if the killer isnt proxying you you can absolutely crawl away and get out of sight within 15 seconds. ive done it dozens and dozens of time(i find slugNseek fun) but most of the time killers are chasing the mori so they leave you alone and dont remain on your body (ime)
4. Occam's razor would suggest that bhvr is aware of that mechanic and if they found it problematic or against game design they would have included that in the slug patches and qol passes they did. it takes more leaps and assumptions to conclude that they are aware of this, not talking about it but internally thinking its not an intended mechanic. why are you assuming they feel this way?
5. i agree this is likely the case in nearly all circumstances but the game still isnt over and a comeback i still possible even if its only a 4 percent chance (hopefully you get that tongue in cheek reference lol) and there is still a chance you can come back and escape. i have done so, not often but a few times it has, or ive at least been able to be part of how team mates escaped even if it was lost for me.
I want to reiterate here that ia m not pro slugging (sluggings fine if you dont over due it or being a jerk about it) in that i have a "get slugged loser" mindset (im aware my username may indicate otherwise) i do care about peoples fun and i do not slug the 3rd for the 4th (most of the time, in competitive matches where all of us are trying, i will because im trying to win) vast majority of the time i let the last 1 or 2 go (i let 2 people go twice last night) and i dont enjoy being slugged and left instead of hooked, i roll my eyes when it happens.
But my point is is that even tho its boring and it sucks, it is part of the games design, clearly is intentional or at the very least tolerated and not seen as a tactic that needs to be removed and i dont think its good for the game to add more ways for people to just dc when a game isnt going the way they want, we already have a major problem with that.
But if that were to be changed and you could abandon, i wouldnt personally complain because its an issue that wouldnt really be impacting me, i just get the DC whenever i down someone faster than they want or they dont like my killer choice or the wind blows or whatever happens in these games lol. I just am not convinced that there is an argument to be made to abandon a game just because you feel like you cant win and dont want to wait a couple minutes.

Technical documentation is part of my job, I type and write a fair bit and it needs to be clear (but I dramatically overuse commas and regularly use them incorrectly). This is a global forum so I don't expect good writing and wouldn't assume anyone coming here has English as their first language. I also understand that at the end of the day we are discussing a video game, a video game we are both clearly invested in but a video game nonetheless :) , I know I come off as blunt sometimes too and get overly passionate about a silly game. To some extent I am hoping that if this post gets enough comments BHVR will increase the priority of an endgame rework or at least get it onto some sort of roadmap.

I also want to state that I don't think anyone slugging for the 4k makes them a bad person (again video game) but I can say that I would not want to be acquainted with or be friends with a person that would end their matches that way on a regular basis. The best thing I can liken it to in the real world is someone picking up a dollar they saw someone else drop and not giving it back to the person that dropped it (assuming neither of those people really need money). Its ultimately a minor act of selfishness but would make me question the rest of their ethics and motivations.

The most recent change to hatch was in 5.3.0 so around five years ago. Prior to that change hatch would spawn in closed depending on number of survivors alive and generators completed. It still spawned in and opened automatically with one survivor left but you could find or bring a key into the trial to open it earlier. You could still technically slug to prevent it but to a much lesser extent and only if a large number of gens remained. The dev notes on there state the reasons they made those changes as being a nerf to keys and to prevent survivors camping the hatch (you could find it before it spawned in as well) and just waiting for their teammates to die. Slug for the 4k is a side effect of these changes. I wasn't playing at the time so some of this might be me misunderstanding (spawn logic was a bit weird).
1. There are a lot of bugs that have been in the game for that long or longer or disappear for a single patch and then come back in another. With how poorly the game code was written its entirely possible they have tried to make updates internally that complete broke something. Given how long the endgame has been considered a problem on both sides this actually seems more likely to me than slug for the 4k being intended.
I am not abandoning my teammates though, I am slugged on the ground with no way to help them if I could help them I would and the most effective way to do that would be to die. There is nothing I can do in that situation to help them and me being there is actively detrimental to my teammates escape since if I wasn't there hatch would spawn and they would have a chance of escape. I am not in any way decreasing the game experience for anyone else by being allowed to leave, my game experience and the experience of the other remaining survivor are the ones being degraded. If your argument is that the killers experience would be degraded if I was allowed to leave then you have a small point but we are talking about a degradation from winning with a guaranteed 4k to winning with a guaranteed 3k and with a 4k still being incredibly likely. Comparing that to someone being completely unable to meaningfully interact with the game its obvious who needs to be prioritized.
It depends on whether or not they find the other survivor, if they find them of course they go after them but at that point the match is really truly over and you are not getting back up, no point in me being there anymore. If they don't you get proxied in the hopes that you lead them to the other survivor or the other survivor tries to get you back up. If the other survivor isn't nearby I'm dying to bleed out. If the other survivor is nearby then they get found and downed, no point in me being there. No matter what me being there is not doing anything or changing anything. Maybe just crawling around is fun for you but I think you will not find many people that agree.
I am certain BHVR is aware but development projects (I am a software dev but not a game dev) are complicated projects and a small amount of spaghetti code can make things difficult to alter even if you want to make changes, even if those changes sound simple. Given the sheer amount of spaghetti code in this particular game and BHVRs clear money sidedness it wouldn't surprise me if its on the list of things to change eventually but so far down the list it may as well never see the light of day. There are also the slugging changes that didn't make it to live which would have effectively nerfed the ability to slug for the 4k (without outright removing it), so you could argue that they had intended to resolve it there but the pushback they received from those changes have made them hesitant to try again (as we can see from the diminishing returns changes having so few other changes, though soon?).
I am aware it is possible and even mention that I have done it before but maybe a handful out of thousands of game, so a ridiculously low chance of it happening. We are talking matches where the two remaining survivors must dramatically outclass the killer to such an extent it makes you wonder how matchmaking put those two survivors against that killer alongside the two survivors that died.

I understand why someone will slug during the match but once the killer has won (3k) I don't. I cannot see how someone could need a 4k that badly. It may be a game but if I found out a friend was doing it regularly I would re-evaluate that friendship, this game just isn't that serious or truly competitive and if they are not thinking about how it could effect the downed survivor then they quite likely have a childish mindset that I don't trust. If they want the hyper competitive experience we have the comp scene and as a bonus if they don't like certain perks or think matchmaking is poor both of those are in the hands of the players over there. I also wouldn't mind much if it was only an occasional thing but its becoming more and more common to the point that its been nearly every match that the killer wins recently, it wears on you and makes me less and less likely to play survivor.

You can claim that its intended but we have no confirmation of that, I think its far more likely to just have happened by accident and all their attempts at addressing it have been shot down or de-prioritized. I don't mind losing, some of my favorite matches ever in this game are ones I lost, but slugging for the 4k isn't something that allows the survivors a meaningful way to interact with the game. Hatch race at least gives everyone something to do. I am not saying its perfect but its far better than the situation slugging for the 4k creates.

If you want to really tackle DCs, and I agree they happen more on the survivor side, then you have to address why they are happening not band aid in more punishment. They come from a place of real frustration with the game but a desire to keep playing because there is a good game hidden in here and there isn't anything else like it (this doesn't apply to everyone, obviously there are people that just have poor attitudes but those players will never be saved). The reason I have had such a problem with this thread is that slugging for the 4k is clearly one of the primary causes of that frustration that BHVR could tackle and there are so many people defending it. To me personally it is the single greatest cause of frustration, how could it not be when the expectation is for me to just sit there after the match is lost. The biggest problem for this of course is that if they focused on a patch to lessen frustrations people would want their personal grievances included and dealt with, everything would be seen through the lens of balance changes and it won't be allowed to be imperfect at first and fixed over time.

While survivors DC more often, killers complain more (you can dispute this if you want but I have seen too many youtube videos from killers that win nearly all their matches and still complain to think its not true). Those same killers love to claim that all it would take for kill rates to go down is for survivors to learn, they never consider that killers also have skill issues and that kill rates would go up if the average killer player was better. Those skill issues are just not as easily noticed because the game does favor the killer up until we are talking about the absolute highest level of play, simply because it is much easier to snowball on the killer side. When they lose many never consider that they got matched against survivors better than them and they lost because of a skill issue, many jump directly to the game being survivor sided.

PTBs are a great reminder to me that I am probably (not saying with any certainty) better than average, I won all my matches as Jason and my survivor matches were significantly easier than normal (actually weirdly gave me some hope that mmr really does work at least a little). I'm not saying there are no struggles on the killer side but your average youtuber that plays this game for a living or just an absolute ton is not a good judge because they are ridiculously good at the game and out of touch with the struggles of the average player particularly on the survivor side where game knowledge is a bigger part of the game than on killer (it still matters just less in my opinion).

Your average player is average on both sides and they always will be average, even if good tutorials exist you can't force someone to watch them or remember what they said and that is before getting into how different implementing the actions are from just knowing. If you push these players too hard this is what happens. Obviously a balance does need to be struck and we shouldn't push the average killer too hard either but so many simultaneously claim that killer is miserable while winning the majority of their matches. If its miserable while you win imagine how miserable your opponents must have been. I want to reiterate that I am not saying there are no problems on the killer side there absolutely are such as the disparity between maps (which I think effects killers more than survivors), but anytime someone even tries to bring up survivor frustration or survivor issues you are met with people that will insist its just a skill issue and that no changes should be made even if those changes would have no effect on balance, I have even seen people claim that survivor perks on a PTB were overpowered and then they are unused a week after they go live (not saying its never true but more commonly its completely wrong).

I agree that DCing so early is silly but at the same time there have absolutely been games that were lost simply because the killer had a good start. I won't give up but its demoralizing that it can happen that early while its simultaneously possible that the killer could play poorly most of the match and then snowball to a victory near the end, no such comeback exists for survivor. I and the few friends I have that still play survivor are currently trying to teach a new player how to play, I have recommended they focus on killer but they want to join for survivor sometimes. It has been a terrible reminder how on point the entire survivor team needs to be in order to even stand a chance, my solo queue matches are better than playing with them because they are so new. I don't expect to win and am still enjoying my time but the matches shouldn't be the wild blowouts they are either. Unless the killer goes out of their way to play incredibly nicely we lose with many gens left and that's one new player playing with three experienced players (not sweaty or incredibly good but at least decent I think).

(and now I think I have written too much and I don't think I can be this verbose again, sorry for the wall of text)

pidgeon · June 11, 2026

I feel bad for the mods that have to read all of these comments..

HexSlugged · June 11, 2026

@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086339#Comment_4086339
Technical documentation is part of my job, I type and write a fair bit and it needs to be clear (but I dramatically overuse commas and regularly use them incorrectly). This is a global forum so I don't expect good writing and wouldn't assume anyone coming here has English as their first language. I also understand that at the end of the day we are discussing a video game, a video game we are both clearly invested in but a video game nonetheless :) , I know I come off as blunt sometimes too and get overly passionate about a silly game. To some extent I am hoping that if this post gets enough comments BHVR will increase the priority of an endgame rework or at least get it onto some sort of roadmap.
I also want to state that I don't think anyone slugging for the 4k makes them a bad person (again video game) but I can say that I would not want to be acquainted with or be friends with a person that would end their matches that way on a regular basis. The best thing I can liken it to in the real world is someone picking up a dollar they saw someone else drop and not giving it back to the person that dropped it (assuming neither of those people really need money). Its ultimately a minor act of selfishness but would make me question the rest of their ethics and motivations.
The most recent change to hatch was in 5.3.0 so around five years ago. Prior to that change hatch would spawn in closed depending on number of survivors alive and generators completed. It still spawned in and opened automatically with one survivor left but you could find or bring a key into the trial to open it earlier. You could still technically slug to prevent it but to a much lesser extent and only if a large number of gens remained. The dev notes on there state the reasons they made those changes as being a nerf to keys and to prevent survivors camping the hatch (you could find it before it spawned in as well) and just waiting for their teammates to die. Slug for the 4k is a side effect of these changes. I wasn't playing at the time so some of this might be me misunderstanding (spawn logic was a bit weird).
There are a lot of bugs that have been in the game for that long or longer or disappear for a single patch and then come back in another. With how poorly the game code was written its entirely possible they have tried to make updates internally that complete broke something. Given how long the endgame has been considered a problem on both sides this actually seems more likely to me than slug for the 4k being intended.
I am not abandoning my teammates though, I am slugged on the ground with no way to help them if I could help them I would and the most effective way to do that would be to die. There is nothing I can do in that situation to help them and me being there is actively detrimental to my teammates escape since if I wasn't there hatch would spawn and they would have a chance of escape. I am not in any way decreasing the game experience for anyone else by being allowed to leave, my game experience and the experience of the other remaining survivor are the ones being degraded. If your argument is that the killers experience would be degraded if I was allowed to leave then you have a small point but we are talking about a degradation from winning with a guaranteed 4k to winning with a guaranteed 3k and with a 4k still being incredibly likely. Comparing that to someone being completely unable to meaningfully interact with the game its obvious who needs to be prioritized.
It depends on whether or not they find the other survivor, if they find them of course they go after them but at that point the match is really truly over and you are not getting back up, no point in me being there anymore. If they don't you get proxied in the hopes that you lead them to the other survivor or the other survivor tries to get you back up. If the other survivor isn't nearby I'm dying to bleed out. If the other survivor is nearby then they get found and downed, no point in me being there. No matter what me being there is not doing anything or changing anything. Maybe just crawling around is fun for you but I think you will not find many people that agree.
I am certain BHVR is aware but development projects (I am a software dev but not a game dev) are complicated projects and a small amount of spaghetti code can make things difficult to alter even if you want to make changes, even if those changes sound simple. Given the sheer amount of spaghetti code in this particular game and BHVRs clear money sidedness it wouldn't surprise me if its on the list of things to change eventually but so far down the list it may as well never see the light of day. There are also the slugging changes that didn't make it to live which would have effectively nerfed the ability to slug for the 4k (without outright removing it), so you could argue that they had intended to resolve it there but the pushback they received from those changes have made them hesitant to try again (as we can see from the diminishing returns changes having so few other changes, though soon?).
I am aware it is possible and even mention that I have done it before but maybe a handful out of thousands of game, so a ridiculously low chance of it happening. We are talking matches where the two remaining survivors must dramatically outclass the killer to such an extent it makes you wonder how matchmaking put those two survivors against that killer alongside the two survivors that died.
I understand why someone will slug during the match but once the killer has won (3k) I don't. I cannot see how someone could need a 4k that badly. It may be a game but if I found out a friend was doing it regularly I would re-evaluate that friendship, this game just isn't that serious or truly competitive and if they are not thinking about how it could effect the downed survivor then they quite likely have a childish mindset that I don't trust. If they want the hyper competitive experience we have the comp scene and as a bonus if they don't like certain perks or think matchmaking is poor both of those are in the hands of the players over there. I also wouldn't mind much if it was only an occasional thing but its becoming more and more common to the point that its been nearly every match that the killer wins recently, it wears on you and makes me less and less likely to play survivor.
You can claim that its intended but we have no confirmation of that, I think its far more likely to just have happened by accident and all their attempts at addressing it have been shot down or de-prioritized. I don't mind losing, some of my favorite matches ever in this game are ones I lost, but slugging for the 4k isn't something that allows the survivors a meaningful way to interact with the game. Hatch race at least gives everyone something to do. I am not saying its perfect but its far better than the situation slugging for the 4k creates.
If you want to really tackle DCs, and I agree they happen more on the survivor side, then you have to address why they are happening not band aid in more punishment. They come from a place of real frustration with the game but a desire to keep playing because there is a good game hidden in here and there isn't anything else like it (this doesn't apply to everyone, obviously there are people that just have poor attitudes but those players will never be saved). The reason I have had such a problem with this thread is that slugging for the 4k is clearly one of the primary causes of that frustration that BHVR could tackle and there are so many people defending it. To me personally it is the single greatest cause of frustration, how could it not be when the expectation is for me to just sit there after the match is lost. The biggest problem for this of course is that if they focused on a patch to lessen frustrations people would want their personal grievances included and dealt with, everything would be seen through the lens of balance changes and it won't be allowed to be imperfect at first and fixed over time.
While survivors DC more often, killers complain more (you can dispute this if you want but I have seen too many youtube videos from killers that win nearly all their matches and still complain to think its not true). Those same killers love to claim that all it would take for kill rates to go down is for survivors to learn, they never consider that killers also have skill issues and that kill rates would go up if the average killer player was better. Those skill issues are just not as easily noticed because the game does favor the killer up until we are talking about the absolute highest level of play, simply because it is much easier to snowball on the killer side. When they lose many never consider that they got matched against survivors better than them and they lost because of a skill issue, many jump directly to the game being survivor sided.
PTBs are a great reminder to me that I am probably (not saying with any certainty) better than average, I won all my matches as Jason and my survivor matches were significantly easier than normal (actually weirdly gave me some hope that mmr really does work at least a little). I'm not saying there are no struggles on the killer side but your average youtuber that plays this game for a living or just an absolute ton is not a good judge because they are ridiculously good at the game and out of touch with the struggles of the average player particularly on the survivor side where game knowledge is a bigger part of the game than on killer (it still matters just less in my opinion).
Your average player is average on both sides and they always will be average, even if good tutorials exist you can't force someone to watch them or remember what they said and that is before getting into how different implementing the actions are from just knowing. If you push these players too hard this is what happens. Obviously a balance does need to be struck and we shouldn't push the average killer too hard either but so many simultaneously claim that killer is miserable while winning the majority of their matches. If its miserable while you win imagine how miserable your opponents must have been. I want to reiterate that I am not saying there are no problems on the killer side there absolutely are such as the disparity between maps (which I think effects killers more than survivors), but anytime someone even tries to bring up survivor frustration or survivor issues you are met with people that will insist its just a skill issue and that no changes should be made even if those changes would have no effect on balance, I have even seen people claim that survivor perks on a PTB were overpowered and then they are unused a week after they go live (not saying its never true but more commonly its completely wrong).
I agree that DCing so early is silly but at the same time there have absolutely been games that were lost simply because the killer had a good start. I won't give up but its demoralizing that it can happen that early while its simultaneously possible that the killer could play poorly most of the match and then snowball to a victory near the end, no such comeback exists for survivor. I and the few friends I have that still play survivor are currently trying to teach a new player how to play, I have recommended they focus on killer but they want to join for survivor sometimes. It has been a terrible reminder how on point the entire survivor team needs to be in order to even stand a chance, my solo queue matches are better than playing with them because they are so new. I don't expect to win and am still enjoying my time but the matches shouldn't be the wild blowouts they are either. Unless the killer goes out of their way to play incredibly nicely we lose with many gens left and that's one new player playing with three experienced players (not sweaty or incredibly good but at least decent I think).
(and now I think I have written too much and I don't think I can be this verbose again, sorry for the wall of text)

i think something that would help with these situations is that the game doesnt really make win conditions clear for killers.

With survivors its pretty easy, escape is a rather obvious inference. But with survivors the game doesnt really make clear that if 3 people escape and you die, you still win because its a team game. as such, a good chunk of people in soloq play selfishly (though in my expereince i think overall i encounter generally altruistic and team minded people)

With killers, the only people who know that 3k is considered by the game/devs to be a win is those who pay attention to the game to the degree you and I and the rest of the people that come and chat on a forum over it.

All the game tells you is that as a killer you have to kill the survivors. The inference is that the goal is to kill all 4. and killing 4 survivors is an obvious win because the game ends and there is no one else left to kill but i dont see anything in the game that really informs you that a 3k is still a victory beyond the end game phrase of "brutal killer" or whatever.

So i think alot of people dont feel they have a win or that its not a sufficient win unless they have 4 kills. I think that if BHVR were to make it clearer in game what the game considers as a win it "may" decrease people who stop at nothing for the 4k.

I dont think you can stop it permanently because people are as people are but if the game could reinforce to people more that 3k is a win or even gave another route to see your mori on survivor 3 instead of just 4 it could help as im sure a chunk of people slug for 4k specifically for the mori.

After sleeping on it though, i am less steadfast in my opposition to a slug dc in that situation.

you are right that its super unlikely for the game to be won in that situation, my argument is based in that small chances are still chances and both as killer and survivor ive ended up winning games i thought were lost and that this game does have a quit when losing midset issue but the chance of winning in that situation isnt just low, its astronomically low and the payoff of gaining an escape would be so rare holding out a dozen times would over ride the rare payoff.
in addition, the bot still exists on the dc and bots never give up or rat because they are tilted so i dont think my position holds up as well as initially thought.
I think part of my struggles are that we really have a huge issue with attitude in the community and that its currently shifting more and more into the quit whenever im in a disadvantage and its ruining the game expereince for people. WHen I play killer, when i see a dc it literally kills most of my enjoyment for the match. its not satisfying to take down a bot and its not satisfying to beat a team thats at a disadvantage NOT because i hex the third sealed them and now none of them knows where the hooked surv is and he goes to stage 2 for free (lol) but because a player abandoned them and left them with a rock for brain bot thats bad at everything except for shattering all my Hexes across the map with a single flick of its wrist. as survivor, it feels horrible to know at 5 gens left we are basically a team of 3 and not because we played poorly at the start or the killer pulled off a strong start but because someone didnt have the decency to stick it through in a match they dont like.
I despise legion with all my heart, he is the only killer i want to blacklist and never play against again and in every match with one i genuinely want to DC. i have zero desire to play, but i force myself to play and to try just as much as i do in other games because im letting down 4 other people who are in the game. If we could better address quitters on these other situations then i dont have an issue with abandoning in a 2v1 slug for 4k situation, but right now im concerned it adds on to an already DC over everything epidemic.
and i think that one of the main take aways thats shifting my opinion is that i think you are right in that it doesnt hurt the 4th survivors experience for the 3rd to DC there. I didnt care about the killers experience so much (they still got the down and generally the kill) but i was operating under that framework of it hurting the last survivors expereince of no longer having someone to play with and attempt a hail mary or whatever. But after reflecting on my own experiences of similar whenever i have been the 4th all i think if anything is "that sucks" and i just continue my journey on attempting to escape. when im the third almost every time i sigh and roll my eyes and those 2 experiences are definitely weighted more on a negative experience to the slugged survivor than the 4th.

So in conclusion, i will rescind my points in that will i remain steadfast in not wanting further DC encouragement but i think the net gain is higher than loss for an abandon feature in that scenario. If BHVR does implement a change on this i just hope they have some other general pass on DCing (though i do not know what the solution is) and that they have the game make it more obvious to killers in game that they have won if its a 3k. But maybe we can debate this idea, but if BHVR made the End game hook not give so much protection to the survs it could make that play more appealing to killers. I do believe there still needs to be endurance and most of the hook protections in place but right now i think that there is so much safety involved on that final hook in EGC that many killers dont want to play that scenario. I think endurance should be knocked down to 5 seconds and shorter haste buff which i think will allow for a more balanced final play. Theoretically this would make this scenario less bad feeling to killers to where they would slug someone to avoid reaching a scenario they feel is too hard to win.

Though personally i enjoy end game hook plays and i have had some of my most satisfying game experiences in the 10 years ive played the game off and on for have come from the end game plays, i do think that currently end game hooks are really punishing for around half of the killer roster and it doesnt make it a scenario you want to be in.

Thank you for being polite and cordial on a discussion of our differing views. because of that it caused me to be able to really reflect on my positions and listen to yours and as such, i can say my mind has been changed!

TropesDaMan · June 11, 2026

@pidgeon said:
I feel bad for the mods that have to read all of these comments..

TropesDaMan · June 11, 2026

im going to admit slugging is boring for the killer itself

Balrog · June 11, 2026

@pidgeon said:
I feel bad for the mods that have to read all of these comments..

Don't! Being here is an absolute pleasure and I'm lucky to be able to interact with the community so closely and with a part of the community who feels extremely passionate.

FerrousFacade · June 11, 2026

@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086398#Comment_4086398
i think something that would help with these situations is that the game doesnt really make win conditions clear for killers.
With survivors its pretty easy, escape is a rather obvious inference. But with survivors the game doesnt really make clear that if 3 people escape and you die, you still win because its a team game. as such, a good chunk of people in soloq play selfishly (though in my expereince i think overall i encounter generally altruistic and team minded people)
With killers, the only people who know that 3k is considered by the game/devs to be a win is those who pay attention to the game to the degree you and I and the rest of the people that come and chat on a forum over it.
All the game tells you is that as a killer you have to kill the survivors. The inference is that the goal is to kill all 4. and killing 4 survivors is an obvious win because the game ends and there is no one else left to kill but i dont see anything in the game that really informs you that a 3k is still a victory beyond the end game phrase of "brutal killer" or whatever.
So i think alot of people dont feel they have a win or that its not a sufficient win unless they have 4 kills. I think that if BHVR were to make it clearer in game what the game considers as a win it "may" decrease people who stop at nothing for the 4k.
I dont think you can stop it permanently because people are as people are but if the game could reinforce to people more that 3k is a win or even gave another route to see your mori on survivor 3 instead of just 4 it could help as im sure a chunk of people slug for 4k specifically for the mori.
After sleeping on it though, i am less steadfast in my opposition to a slug dc in that situation.
you are right that its super unlikely for the game to be won in that situation, my argument is based in that small chances are still chances and both as killer and survivor ive ended up winning games i thought were lost and that this game does have a quit when losing midset issue but the chance of winning in that situation isnt just low, its astronomically low and the payoff of gaining an escape would be so rare holding out a dozen times would over ride the rare payoff.
in addition, the bot still exists on the dc and bots never give up or rat because they are tilted so i dont think my position holds up as well as initially thought.
I think part of my struggles are that we really have a huge issue with attitude in the community and that its currently shifting more and more into the quit whenever im in a disadvantage and its ruining the game expereince for people. WHen I play killer, when i see a dc it literally kills most of my enjoyment for the match. its not satisfying to take down a bot and its not satisfying to beat a team thats at a disadvantage NOT because i hex the third sealed them and now none of them knows where the hooked surv is and he goes to stage 2 for free (lol) but because a player abandoned them and left them with a rock for brain bot thats bad at everything except for shattering all my Hexes across the map with a single flick of its wrist. as survivor, it feels horrible to know at 5 gens left we are basically a team of 3 and not because we played poorly at the start or the killer pulled off a strong start but because someone didnt have the decency to stick it through in a match they dont like.
I despise legion with all my heart, he is the only killer i want to blacklist and never play against again and in every match with one i genuinely want to DC. i have zero desire to play, but i force myself to play and to try just as much as i do in other games because im letting down 4 other people who are in the game. If we could better address quitters on these other situations then i dont have an issue with abandoning in a 2v1 slug for 4k situation, but right now im concerned it adds on to an already DC over everything epidemic.
and i think that one of the main take aways thats shifting my opinion is that i think you are right in that it doesnt hurt the 4th survivors experience for the 3rd to DC there. I didnt care about the killers experience so much (they still got the down and generally the kill) but i was operating under that framework of it hurting the last survivors expereince of no longer having someone to play with and attempt a hail mary or whatever. But after reflecting on my own experiences of similar whenever i have been the 4th all i think if anything is "that sucks" and i just continue my journey on attempting to escape. when im the third almost every time i sigh and roll my eyes and those 2 experiences are definitely weighted more on a negative experience to the slugged survivor than the 4th.
So in conclusion, i will rescind my points in that will i remain steadfast in not wanting further DC encouragement but i think the net gain is higher than loss for an abandon feature in that scenario. If BHVR does implement a change on this i just hope they have some other general pass on DCing (though i do not know what the solution is) and that they have the game make it more obvious to killers in game that they have won if its a 3k. But maybe we can debate this idea, but if BHVR made the End game hook not give so much protection to the survs it could make that play more appealing to killers. I do believe there still needs to be endurance and most of the hook protections in place but right now i think that there is so much safety involved on that final hook in EGC that many killers dont want to play that scenario. I think endurance should be knocked down to 5 seconds and shorter haste buff which i think will allow for a more balanced final play. Theoretically this would make this scenario less bad feeling to killers to where they would slug someone to avoid reaching a scenario they feel is too hard to win.
Though personally i enjoy end game hook plays and i have had some of my most satisfying game experiences in the 10 years ive played the game off and on for have come from the end game plays, i do think that currently end game hooks are really punishing for around half of the killer roster and it doesnt make it a scenario you want to be in.
Thank you for being polite and cordial on a discussion of our differing views. because of that it caused me to be able to really reflect on my positions and listen to yours and as such, i can say my mind has been changed!

The same lack of definition to win conditions occurs on the survivor side as well, obviously an escape is something you want but the game internally defines only your personal escape as a win for you (ultimately only to the hidden mmr system) and while I agree that a three out where I die is still a win for me you will find people arguing for playing in a selfish way.

mori on survivor 3 instead of just 4

This has been one of the suggested solutions actually, that in a 2v1 the moment a survivor goes down a mori starts, hell lets make it extra fun and give ranged killers a special mori when they get the ranged down (nurses head is now three times as big lol). I am very open to other options than the slugged survivor abandoning or being insta-killed by the way and would even prefer a rework to make the 2v1 more engaging but all of those take more development effort than just letting them leave. The band aid would unfortunately likely become permanent but at least it would be something. I agree that the endgame scenario of one hook and everyone else still up sucks as well and a reduction to endurance in endgame would be a fine change but just like the killer winning scenario it feels like a band aid when it obviously needs some rework.

I agree there is a disconnection problem and a giving up problem (on both sides) but I frame it as a frustration problem first and an attitude problem second (for some it really is just attitude). You will never make everyone happy but it is possible to decrease frustration on both sides while still maintaining game balance, I mentioned some of that on the survivor side but a big one I should point out on the killer side is the expectation that ghostface should be able to win under the same conditions as nurse and blight. The disparity between killer strength is a massive driver of frustration as well and ultimately on both sides.

TropesDaMan · June 11, 2026

@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086339#Comment_4086339
Technical documentation is part of my job, I type and write a fair bit and it needs to be clear (but I dramatically overuse commas and regularly use them incorrectly). This is a global forum so I don't expect good writing and wouldn't assume anyone coming here has English as their first language. I also understand that at the end of the day we are discussing a video game, a video game we are both clearly invested in but a video game nonetheless :) , I know I come off as blunt sometimes too and get overly passionate about a silly game. To some extent I am hoping that if this post gets enough comments BHVR will increase the priority of an endgame rework or at least get it onto some sort of roadmap.
I also want to state that I don't think anyone slugging for the 4k makes them a bad person (again video game) but I can say that I would not want to be acquainted with or be friends with a person that would end their matches that way on a regular basis. The best thing I can liken it to in the real world is someone picking up a dollar they saw someone else drop and not giving it back to the person that dropped it (assuming neither of those people really need money). Its ultimately a minor act of selfishness but would make me question the rest of their ethics and motivations.
The most recent change to hatch was in 5.3.0 so around five years ago. Prior to that change hatch would spawn in closed depending on number of survivors alive and generators completed. It still spawned in and opened automatically with one survivor left but you could find or bring a key into the trial to open it earlier. You could still technically slug to prevent it but to a much lesser extent and only if a large number of gens remained. The dev notes on there state the reasons they made those changes as being a nerf to keys and to prevent survivors camping the hatch (you could find it before it spawned in as well) and just waiting for their teammates to die. Slug for the 4k is a side effect of these changes. I wasn't playing at the time so some of this might be me misunderstanding (spawn logic was a bit weird).
There are a lot of bugs that have been in the game for that long or longer or disappear for a single patch and then come back in another. With how poorly the game code was written its entirely possible they have tried to make updates internally that complete broke something. Given how long the endgame has been considered a problem on both sides this actually seems more likely to me than slug for the 4k being intended.
I am not abandoning my teammates though, I am slugged on the ground with no way to help them if I could help them I would and the most effective way to do that would be to die. There is nothing I can do in that situation to help them and me being there is actively detrimental to my teammates escape since if I wasn't there hatch would spawn and they would have a chance of escape. I am not in any way decreasing the game experience for anyone else by being allowed to leave, my game experience and the experience of the other remaining survivor are the ones being degraded. If your argument is that the killers experience would be degraded if I was allowed to leave then you have a small point but we are talking about a degradation from winning with a guaranteed 4k to winning with a guaranteed 3k and with a 4k still being incredibly likely. Comparing that to someone being completely unable to meaningfully interact with the game its obvious who needs to be prioritized.
It depends on whether or not they find the other survivor, if they find them of course they go after them but at that point the match is really truly over and you are not getting back up, no point in me being there anymore. If they don't you get proxied in the hopes that you lead them to the other survivor or the other survivor tries to get you back up. If the other survivor isn't nearby I'm dying to bleed out. If the other survivor is nearby then they get found and downed, no point in me being there. No matter what me being there is not doing anything or changing anything. Maybe just crawling around is fun for you but I think you will not find many people that agree.
I am certain BHVR is aware but development projects (I am a software dev but not a game dev) are complicated projects and a small amount of spaghetti code can make things difficult to alter even if you want to make changes, even if those changes sound simple. Given the sheer amount of spaghetti code in this particular game and BHVRs clear money sidedness it wouldn't surprise me if its on the list of things to change eventually but so far down the list it may as well never see the light of day. There are also the slugging changes that didn't make it to live which would have effectively nerfed the ability to slug for the 4k (without outright removing it), so you could argue that they had intended to resolve it there but the pushback they received from those changes have made them hesitant to try again (as we can see from the diminishing returns changes having so few other changes, though soon?).
I am aware it is possible and even mention that I have done it before but maybe a handful out of thousands of game, so a ridiculously low chance of it happening. We are talking matches where the two remaining survivors must dramatically outclass the killer to such an extent it makes you wonder how matchmaking put those two survivors against that killer alongside the two survivors that died.
I understand why someone will slug during the match but once the killer has won (3k) I don't. I cannot see how someone could need a 4k that badly. It may be a game but if I found out a friend was doing it regularly I would re-evaluate that friendship, this game just isn't that serious or truly competitive and if they are not thinking about how it could effect the downed survivor then they quite likely have a childish mindset that I don't trust. If they want the hyper competitive experience we have the comp scene and as a bonus if they don't like certain perks or think matchmaking is poor both of those are in the hands of the players over there. I also wouldn't mind much if it was only an occasional thing but its becoming more and more common to the point that its been nearly every match that the killer wins recently, it wears on you and makes me less and less likely to play survivor.
You can claim that its intended but we have no confirmation of that, I think its far more likely to just have happened by accident and all their attempts at addressing it have been shot down or de-prioritized. I don't mind losing, some of my favorite matches ever in this game are ones I lost, but slugging for the 4k isn't something that allows the survivors a meaningful way to interact with the game. Hatch race at least gives everyone something to do. I am not saying its perfect but its far better than the situation slugging for the 4k creates.
If you want to really tackle DCs, and I agree they happen more on the survivor side, then you have to address why they are happening not band aid in more punishment. They come from a place of real frustration with the game but a desire to keep playing because there is a good game hidden in here and there isn't anything else like it (this doesn't apply to everyone, obviously there are people that just have poor attitudes but those players will never be saved). The reason I have had such a problem with this thread is that slugging for the 4k is clearly one of the primary causes of that frustration that BHVR could tackle and there are so many people defending it. To me personally it is the single greatest cause of frustration, how could it not be when the expectation is for me to just sit there after the match is lost. The biggest problem for this of course is that if they focused on a patch to lessen frustrations people would want their personal grievances included and dealt with, everything would be seen through the lens of balance changes and it won't be allowed to be imperfect at first and fixed over time.
While survivors DC more often, killers complain more (you can dispute this if you want but I have seen too many youtube videos from killers that win nearly all their matches and still complain to think its not true). Those same killers love to claim that all it would take for kill rates to go down is for survivors to learn, they never consider that killers also have skill issues and that kill rates would go up if the average killer player was better. Those skill issues are just not as easily noticed because the game does favor the killer up until we are talking about the absolute highest level of play, simply because it is much easier to snowball on the killer side. When they lose many never consider that they got matched against survivors better than them and they lost because of a skill issue, many jump directly to the game being survivor sided.
PTBs are a great reminder to me that I am probably (not saying with any certainty) better than average, I won all my matches as Jason and my survivor matches were significantly easier than normal (actually weirdly gave me some hope that mmr really does work at least a little). I'm not saying there are no struggles on the killer side but your average youtuber that plays this game for a living or just an absolute ton is not a good judge because they are ridiculously good at the game and out of touch with the struggles of the average player particularly on the survivor side where game knowledge is a bigger part of the game than on killer (it still matters just less in my opinion).
Your average player is average on both sides and they always will be average, even if good tutorials exist you can't force someone to watch them or remember what they said and that is before getting into how different implementing the actions are from just knowing. If you push these players too hard this is what happens. Obviously a balance does need to be struck and we shouldn't push the average killer too hard either but so many simultaneously claim that killer is miserable while winning the majority of their matches. If its miserable while you win imagine how miserable your opponents must have been. I want to reiterate that I am not saying there are no problems on the killer side there absolutely are such as the disparity between maps (which I think effects killers more than survivors), but anytime someone even tries to bring up survivor frustration or survivor issues you are met with people that will insist its just a skill issue and that no changes should be made even if those changes would have no effect on balance, I have even seen people claim that survivor perks on a PTB were overpowered and then they are unused a week after they go live (not saying its never true but more commonly its completely wrong).
I agree that DCing so early is silly but at the same time there have absolutely been games that were lost simply because the killer had a good start. I won't give up but its demoralizing that it can happen that early while its simultaneously possible that the killer could play poorly most of the match and then snowball to a victory near the end, no such comeback exists for survivor. I and the few friends I have that still play survivor are currently trying to teach a new player how to play, I have recommended they focus on killer but they want to join for survivor sometimes. It has been a terrible reminder how on point the entire survivor team needs to be in order to even stand a chance, my solo queue matches are better than playing with them because they are so new. I don't expect to win and am still enjoying my time but the matches shouldn't be the wild blowouts they are either. Unless the killer goes out of their way to play incredibly nicely we lose with many gens left and that's one new player playing with three experienced players (not sweaty or incredibly good but at least decent I think).
(and now I think I have written too much and I don't think I can be this verbose again, sorry for the wall of text)

This is so neatly writed that im going to treat this as a short story to read for fun

foxofthestars · June 11, 2026

@EmpireCity830 said:
There are 2 survivors left. Killer downs 1 of them then searches the whole map for other one. It is a waste of time and not very engaging. Give the downed survivor a way to insta-die after like 15s-20s of being downed. It gives the last survivor a fair chance at escaping. Otherwise its an automatic win for killer with everyone DCing when the last survivor is found. There really isn't another way to counter this currently, at least not one that I can think of.

I 100% agree with you. This needs to be addressed. They had a fix for it and then failed to go through with it. I don't play this way when I play killer because I'm not trying to draw the game out or feel entitled to a 4k.

unknown · June 11, 2026

This content has been removed.

TheTom20 · June 13, 2026

@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086350#Comment_4086350
Then they just slug you for four minutes to find the other guy.

I'm talking about if the other person is already slugged

CrypticGirl · June 14, 2026

Is there really no solution other than handing the win to the killer when there's only two survivors left? Every step taken has been leading to that. It's no wonder survivors give up early when they genuinely, naturally lose that early.

Thirteen · June 14, 2026

Maybe, just maybe, you should accept that the match is lost at that point and it makes it easier for everyone if you actually played the game. Hiding edge map, touching totems and chests to avoid crows just for a shot at hatch (on match you and your team clearly lost) is just something I can not wrap around my head. When I play survivor and get into such situations, I get on a gen, try to pickup the slug and just progress the game, the killer finds me and we have a last good chase then we say ggs and go next, its that simple.

ArcT · June 14, 2026

@CrypticGirl said:
Is there really no solution other than handing the win to the killer when there's only two survivors left? Every step taken has been leading to that. It's no wonder survivors give up early when they genuinely, naturally lose that early.

No changes are acceptable unless approved by the CC killer base, which means that any change to the situation will need to be even more favorable to the killer than the current slugging for the 4k. When you start from that framing, there's literally nowhere to go but how to leave the game the fastest.

YaBoi0215 · June 14, 2026

@Chomperka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085152#Comment_4085152
i agree with your first statement, there should be some alternative objective for survivors when 2 of them remains so they can actually put some effort instead of just hiding. I never said slugging is healthy, but game literally forces you if you want to guarantee 4k after a deserved win. Slugging at 2 survs is the most logical and rational thing possible if you are going for 4k. Only reason every killer doesn't do that because its massive waste of time. Thats what is actually silly.
Also at the end of the day for survivors its a team game, if your team loses you also should lose. It should't be allowed to take a deserved win for killer just because someone got unlucky with a team, well too bad bro, there are enough games that will allow your individual skill expression to matter more(or just play killer). "surv" side in the assymetrical genre isn't about that.

This is just your ego talking. I play killer more than survivor and I never slug for a 4k unless the survs were just being toxic. It wastes everybody's time. You won the game with a 3k. Who gives a ######### if one survivor gets to escape through the hatch? I get out through the hatch in the majority of my games. You know why? Because my teammates are trash and I can actually loop the killer so they leave me after I've wasted like 1-2 minutes of their time. Needing to get a 4k because you feel it's owed to you is just ego and baby mentality. Wah wah I need my 4k Mr. Entity I did so good I deserve it. Just end the game bro. It's not that deep. If you count 1 surv out as a loss than you're the issue, not the hatch. You're the one having unfun games. You are the problem. And from one killer main to another, stop it. You make us all look bad.

Chomperka · June 14, 2026

@YaBoi0215 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085157#Comment_4085157
This is just your ego talking. I play killer more than survivor and I never slug for a 4k unless the survs were just being toxic. It wastes everybody's time. You won the game with a 3k. Who gives a ######### if one survivor gets to escape through the hatch? I get out through the hatch in the majority of my games. You know why? Because my teammates are trash and I can actually loop the killer so they leave me after I've wasted like 1-2 minutes of their time. Needing to get a 4k because you feel it's owed to you is just ego and baby mentality. Wah wah I need my 4k Mr. Entity I did so good I deserve it. Just end the game bro. It's not that deep. If you count 1 surv out as a loss than you're the issue, not the hatch. You're the one having unfun games. You are the problem. And from one killer main to another, stop it. You make us all look bad.

>Needing to get a 4k because you feel it's owed to you is just ego and baby mentality. Wah wah I need my 4k Mr. Entity I did so good I deserve it

>I get out through the hatch in the majority of my games. You know why? Because my teammates are trash and I can actually loop the killer so they leave me after I've wasted like 1-2 minutes of their time

YaBoi0215 · June 14, 2026

@Chomperka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087276#Comment_4087276
>Needing to get a 4k because you feel it's owed to you is just ego and baby mentality. Wah wah I need my 4k Mr. Entity I did so good I deserve it

>I get out through the hatch in the majority of my games. You know why? Because my teammates are trash and I can actually loop the killer so they leave me after I've wasted like 1-2 minutes of their time

What is this reply? Thanks for highlighting the points that make you look like a massive ego maniac I guess.

MDRSan · June 14, 2026

Slugging for the 4k is obnoxious - it just is. Whether you like hatch or not, it's supposed to a part of the game. When I play survivor I'd love to cheese my way out of having to deal with match mechanics that benefit killers - unfortunately it seems killers are the only ones that get that privilege.

You want to go for equality across roles? Turn off AFK crows when there's 2 people left and one of them are down. The killer wants to waste 2 peoples' time by slugging for the 4k? Let survivors waste their time right back. If the killer doesn't want anyone's time to be wasted then might I suggest they suspend playing like a jerk and simply hook the person they downed.

Can we please do something about this 2 survivor scenario?! It is really boring to deal with.

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