DC
matches so far…
- v huntress….2 people DC the second they are down first time.
- v blight….1 DC second they down….1 DC when on death hook
- v billy…..2 people dc as soon as match starts
- v bubba 2 people dc second they are down
- v krasue….everyone dc at the start of the match
- v Myers….0 DC
- v blight…1 DC at the start….1 DC second they down
- v houndmaster….1 person DC second they down
Only 1 match included tunneling (blight), there was no slugging, no camping, no real reason to DC, chases lasted long enough for a gen to be done in most cases. is there a ban for DCing? because it dont seem to have any effect if there is.
Comments
Personally? I don't play anymore. Killer is boring and Survivor is one of the worst experiences in gaming.
There has always been a lot of entitlement. I'm sure I could find messages from 2019 stating the same things you got messaged. Nothing ever changes, apparently.
I have no idea why you mentioned MFT. Weird.
The anti-tunnel PTB was at least BHVR trying to address a huge complaint, which is that the game is functionally over if someone gets tunneled out. Unfortunately, instead of tweaking it, they backtracked after the majority of Killers lost their minds over having to put in more effort. Extremely disappointed in both the Killer community at large and BHVR.
DC'ing isn't justified. Banning without looking at the root causes is even less justified. All you do is cover up the issue temporarily. This entire thing is because punishments aren't going to work unless there's meaningful change. It is absolutely crazy to me how people can see half a decade of BHVR punishing people for giving up or disconnecting (and recently getting innocent players in the crossfire), see the abject failure of it and complain it isn't solving anything AND THEN turn around and continue to ask for them to do the exact same thing that isn't working.
People do leave, BHVR just pulls another license and gets new people, so it doesn't matter. I also like how you think it's terrible for Killers to leave but Survivors should leave to prove a point. Just an odd difference.
Are you running Lethal Pursuer?
You are. You're justifying their grievances and advocating for them to not be further punished. By any metric, that's defending it.
Categorically untrue, and you know how I know that? Because the things these people are disconnecting over are completely trivial. You can play perkless, add-onless Killer and you still get DCs. Your team can be dominating the match and a teammate will still disconnect. Had a match yesterday where I was being rolled by a team as Unknown. They got down to the last generator. I down one of them — DC and I end up winning a match I should've lost.
By your own admisison, Survivors have been giving up (in various ways) since before the DC penalty existed. Which was YEARS ago when Survivor was stronger than ever. I used to share the same mindset as you: address concerns about the game and the giving up will stop. But then I realised that they give up regardless of where game balance currently lies. I realised that they give up regardless of the state of the match. They gave up against original Skull Merchant, and even now that Skull Merchant has no real power — she STILL gets DCs. It's absurd. And because of that I've finally understood that it's nothing short of an attitude problem. It has nothing to do with game balance and everything to do with the fact that the community keeps accepting and justifying this behaviour.
If the developers or the community put their feet down and said "enough is enough" it would stop. 100%. No one would ever justify any other type of rulebreaking under the guise of "it's a symptom of a deeper issue". Hacking isn't tolerated. Harassment isn't tolerated. Chronic giving up should not be either.
I remember during the anniversary event this year, when tunneling was at an all time high, I played Wraith and Vecna games so well I would win in 7 minutes, and constantly trigger DS on ppl despite the fact I hooked someone else between them.
Even with me winning game after game, 8 hooking and not tunneling, all I ever got was complaints about how boring the game was or me being a "tryhard", cause apparently just being skilled and winning is tryharding.
Cause to survivors, losing is boring, so why bother playing.
Survivors are pussies, and most killers suck so hard at this game they couldn't beat the average team without tunneling.
I fear you misread their comment…
I swear i'm so DBD brained, I literally saw the word TUNNELER not TRUTHER.
@Pulsar, my apologies XD
I'll leave my post in just cause it provides further context. lol
I’ll just quote @OnryosTapeRentals here
Looking from other perspective is enough to already understand everything.
And the thing that entertains me at most… it’s so funny, how you call punishment of DC unable to justify and meaningless, but as soon as same happened in PTB, we heavily imply “BUT WE TRIED TO ADRESS THE ISSUE!”
It’s just a whole pile of hypocrisy here. Apply your own words on people who DC and look at their reaction. They’ll eat you.
Saying something isn't going to have the effect you think it will isn't defending an action. That's called criticism of an idea.
You can see into the hearts and minds of your opponents? You can see what is going on? You saw their previous matches? You saw everything their teammates did? You claim, so assuredly, that you know why. I think that's rather arrogant and likely contributes to your view. Of course, the real thing here is that it doesn't matter why. I'm not even sure why you brought it up.
Have you considered that things can be unfun without being strong? Legion, for example, isn't a strong Killer but they are uniquely unfun to play against. In yesteryear, we had Old Mori's where you'd get tunneled off of hook and finish the match with 2K BP. The issue is that BHVR keeps adding mechanics and Killers that people hate going against. The only time I DC consistently is against Dredge. I would rather eat the penalty than be given a migraine by Nightfall, I apologize for that. I am not advocating for doing that, but BHVR could've designed the Killer to…idk not do that?
No, it really wouldn't. First off, hacking is tolerated lmao. BHVR gave away millions of free accounts to hackers.
Second of all, how would you even go about this? Eventually, you have to start policing intent and punishing bad play.
Can you restate this? I'm having a difficult time understanding it.
… That's something.
You are telling punishing players without addressing core issues is bad idea, but as soon as I talked about PTB, it stopped being a matter of this and turned to be different story. And actual cause is people crying because of more difficult matches.
You literally contradict yourself.
Another question: you said you stopped playing, but you also continue to be a member of the community instead of going, playing five seconds of a match, and then DC. What's the problem with EVERYONE doing this without ruining the lives of their teammates?
The person above is absolutely right. DC has always existed, since the days when the game was surv-based. The problem only worsened because the alternative to this behavior, the "going next" system, was removed.
Questions about tunneling, genrush, or SFW can remain speculative because they often affect the opposite role and are directly related to balance. But it can be not emotional and rather an actual way of play, that's why punishing this — terrible idea.
DC, However is ALWAYS about emotions. And these emotions harm solo Q ten times more than a hypothetical tunnel. Because there are counters to tunneling in the form of perks and skill, BUT I can't counter the fact that my teammate turned out to be a potato and for some reason continues to play this game he hates instead of uninstalling. And devs won’t listen them. Because as I told two times before, such people still buy stuff and contribute to online.
I told about MFT patch, because it showed that if x side actually show the strike that harms devs mostly, by great loss of online, then that's something actually effective. PTB was cancelled because they don't want to deal with MFT experience twice. Survivors DC? Nothing actually critical, as soon as this same person will continue to play one way or another.
Therefore, I'm all for such players disappearing from the community forever. They'll rant and rave about how this game is ruining their fun, but they'll ignore the sabotage they commit with their own hands. You can’t adress such behaviour without punishment.
Let's keep the conversation civil and on topic. There's no need to call names or anything of that nature to have this discussion.
If you want to obfuscate it that badly then sure. Your advocacy for giving up (which is explicity against the game's rules) to go unpunished totally doesn't enable said behaviour. Right.
There's no justifiable reason for abandoning your matches except for real-life obligations/emergencies. And there's ZERO way that these people are having an emergency every other match. No ifs and buts. No "but what about their previous matches?". I don't care about that. I wasn't in their previous matches — I did nothing to make their previous matches bad. Therefore ruining MY match because THEY had bad rounds beforehand will not fly with me. Sorry, no sympathy at all. I don't care anymore. You had several bad matches prior? Okay, then stop playing. Simple.
This "well I had several bad matches in a row and bad teammates and so I was frustrated and that's why I DCed 30 seconds into the game." narrative doesn't work because NO ONE is forcing them to continue to play. They can CLOSE the game, securing their own and everyone else's peace of mind. They are CREATING this problem for themselves and then dragging everyone else down with them. It's completely selfish, indefensible behaviour and ought to be punished in the same way any other rulebreaking is.
Again. Sorry, but I don't care. That's how DbD works. There's 40+ Killers now and it is inevitable not everyone is going to like versing all of them. Strong or weak. Fun or not. I don't care. When you boot up the game you KNOW you could be going against anything, including the Killers you don't like. If you can't handle that maturely, then don't queue.
There are plenty of Killers I hate. Xenomorph for one. Can't stand it. And yet, when I see Xeno, I play the match out anyways. Because I signed up to do so. Because it's a team game and I have an obligaiton to my teammates. That's what being a good sport is. This is how I know the giving up is an attitude problem. Because I have plenty of frustrations with this game and I don't do it. My duo has lots of things they don't like about this game and they don't do it either. There are many, many others in the same boat. With longstanding frustrations who play their games out anyways, because it's the PROPER thing to do. Period.
No it isn't. The community does not tolerate hackers in the same way it does give ups. Hackers are almost unanimously hated. No one would ever say "Oh well they're just hacking because they're frustrated with the game." Because we all know it's just not about that. It's an attitude issue. Cheaters break the rules because they don't care about the integrity of the game. I'm sure there are plenty of cheaters who go their cheats because they were losing, but that reason doesn't matter. You still have to be a certain type of person to cheat, regardless of how "understandable" your reasoning behind it is. Giving up is the EXACT same.
But for some reason giving up gets a pass. Whenever it gets brought up you'll have a crowd of people going "Oh but it's just because X, Y, or Z." And it shouldn't. The reason doesn't matter when the action is hurting innocent players. Period.
Also the free acounts thing was a blunder. Obviously BHVR don't endorse people cheating at their own game.
This is just making a mountain out of molehill. This issue is easily fixable:
That's literally all you need to do.
Thank you for restating. Sometimes things just don't quite make sense to me, I appreciate it.
I still don't see the correlation. The PTB was an attempt to address some of the core issues on the Survivor side of things. There were tweaks that needed to be made, but instead of giving feedback, people lost their minds. It is possible that the PTB could have helped things, but we will probably never know. I do not see the contradiction, maybe I am blind.
Because it has taken me multiple years to quit DBD. There really isn't anything like it, which makes quitting hard. I've come back for periods of time, like during Anniversary with my friend who just bought the game, but I don't really play much anymore. That friend comes to me every once in a while, and wants to try DBD again, and it's usually the same result. Regardless, it has taken me quite some time to leave DBD entirely and to stop bashing my head against the wall.
Yes, that is what I said. DC's have always happened, and they are worse because we simply shifted the method by which people quit, not addressing why they quit.
We have gone from talking about people who DC to people who just aren't very good. I don't see the connection.
PTB was probably cancelled because some of my fellow Killer mains literally can't cope without tunneling. So yes, I'd agree that by and large, Killers seem to get more things done.
I think what he's trying to say is that survivors constantly disconnecting does not affect any metrics that might cause BHVR to panic and reassess the situation.
A player who queues for matches and then disconnects is still an online player who facilitates matchmaking and could potentially buy DLC.
The reason why killers keep getting their way, such as with the MFT nerfs and the backtracking on tunneling and slugging changes is that killers, as an entire whole, stated they would (and in the case of the MFT era, actually did) stop playing entirely.
I'm not talking "They started up the game and started disconnecting from matches," either.
I'm talking about not even starting up the game in the first place, and in the case of the recent tunneling and slugging changes, a lot of killer players outright uninstalled and walked away from the game entirely.
This means there were a whole lot of killer players at a bare minimum threatening to kneecap BHVR's revenue stream by not buying DLC anymore, and a bunch of them may have actually followed through on that threat.
Compare that to survivors who chronically ragequit, who do not meaningfully impact BHVR's bottom line, and it's really quite trivial to figure out which group BHVR is going to listen to.
My advocacy is for addressing root problems instead of band-aid fixing things, not for DC'ing. I am stating again that I am not advocating for DC'ing, but rather for addressing causes.
Like I said, I do not know why you brought it up. It is clear that the reasons do not matter to you, so I do not know why you brought up what you thought people were DC'ing over. Even if it wasn't trivial, in your opinion, it wouldn't matter.
So BHVR should continue to add in Killers like SM? Things they know people hate and people should just take it, right? That's the right thing to do? They should release more Killers like Krasue and Ghoul in an extremely overpowered state and then never adjust them. I don't think either attitude is entirely correct.
Community is different than BHVR, thank you for clarifying.
So, all we need to do is somehow get everyone on the same page by enforcing some kind of groupthink and then start banning normal players! Make no mistake, that's exactly what you are asking for.
Let's break down exactly what will happen. You will never achieve your first objective, and I suspect you already know that.
We up the DC penalty. Let's say we make it far more punishing, the first is an hour ban. The second is a 24-hour ban. Three times? A week. So on and so forth.
What will people do? Well, they can't DC and they can't suicide. They will AFK.
Alright, well, let's ban for inactivity, same penalties as before.
Now they can't AFK, DC or suicide. People start running to the Killer.
We can ban for that too, if you get hit without making enough distance post-hit, you get banned like if you DC'd!
Now they can't DC, run to Killer, suicide or AFK! People start soft-throwing chases.
Now you have to start banning for intent.
Does this seem like a path you wish to pursue?
I would agree with that then.
Although apparently the DC'ing is getting people to quit. Which is apparently the goal?
I dunno. BHVR does listen to the money, but they always have a stream of new players, so I just don't think we'll see any changes until it's far too late.
People still play no matter what. Just being honestly - majority of people I know who left this game are killer mains. On survivor side, is more a tendency of DCing without actuall point later. So that's why
PTB and your words have correlation. You can’t say “Banning DCing is too punishable, you can’t address it like this”, while at the same time defending PTB. The CORE system of PTB was about punishing people for playing not in way some people want. It can’t be fixed by tweaks, because the CORE mechanism of anti tunnell is to punish. And PTB wasn't addressing core issue of tunnelling; incentives wasn’t enough, while gen rush was even buffed in twice. Because it's impossible to fix tunnelling due to a nature of 1 vs 4 assym genre. 4 players will always be strongest at their max in point, and just the fact that it can exist doesn't allow killers to get rid of idea to tunnel.
But yeah, you called it people crying over game being more difficult, thats why your arguments doesn't seem sincere and is more about defending some emotional sentiment here
I think the point of covering loopholes with punishments is that eventually those players will either quit the game entirely (which means nothing of much value was lost) or they will finally get tired of being slapped around by the punishment system and play the game they started up and queued for.
I realize this is anecdotal, but I noticed match quality massively improved when self-unhook attempts were removed, and then BHVR loosened the parameters of the Go Next Prevention system and everything went downhill again because actually innocent people were reasonably annoyed at catching strays.
Just thank you
If you were playing a game of basketball, and every time you played with your friends, the other team just walked along the court, never running, never trying and never posing any challenge to you, you'd stop playing basketball.
As a killer, having ppl dc every game, makes games pose no challenge, and makes DBD a boring game that killers won't want to play, because whats the point if no one is gonna actually take it seriously?
Should frustrated players take a break? Of course they should. But DBD can be an addiction and some players play way past the point they should have stopped. The temptation is always there to have one "last" game in the hope that it will be a good one and when it isn't, they finally crack and hit that DC button or they close the game.
It's not just Survivor players either. Killers DC too, it just seems like less of a problem because the game simply ends. The rest of the players are not stuck playing out a dead trial and can all queue up for their next game. I wouldn't be opposed to a system where if a Survivor DCs very early on, the game boots everyone back to the lobby to queue up again (I think Marvel Rivals has a similar system).
For what it's worth, I think the changes have made giving up and DCing a lot less common than it was. But there still isn't much incentive for Survivors to play out lost games (beyond a tiny quitter BP bonus). Especially not since the finisher mori and slugging for the 4K effectively deleted hatch from the game. Maybe BHVR could award players with a small amount of iri shards or an XP bonus for sticking it out through those tough matches where there's been a DC or an obvious difference in MMR. My issue with the system is that it's pretty much all stick and no carrot. In contrast to the anti-tunnel system, which did have a fair amount of incentive not to tunnel baked into it with base-kit mini pop and BBQ.
Using punishment alone will only get you so far. BHVR have to make playing out those tougher games more worthwhile / less frustrating and for alternative play styles to be more viable or else I don't think the go next problem will ever go away. Recently, it's felt like they've been doing the opposite of all of those things.
I'm willing to bet DBD has one of the worst new player retentions of any online live service game. I'm certain that strategies like tunelling, slugging and proxy camping are pushing newer players away from the game, so the playerbase never really grows. So we never have the base to support the alternative modes that casual players seem to enjoy more (Chaos Shuffle & 2V8) and we're all stuck together playing the main mode most of the time. BHVR have really shot themselves in the foot here by forcing people to play out terrible games without addressing any of the reasons why some games end up being a misery. You can call it entitlement if you want, but I tend to think that players should reasonably expect a good time when they boot up a video game. There are things about DBD that are definitely not a good time to a lot of players.
Side note: I main the Legion, a Killer that I know a lot of Survivors don't enjoy playing against. With the knowledge of that always in my mind, I tend to avoid leaning too much into strategies that I know can be frustrating for Survivors. Of course I will still get the odd DC, but I get a lot less than you might imagine for playing such a unloved Killer and I think that's mostly down to my playstyle. I shouldn't have to play a certain way of course, but it is up to BHVR to set the tone for trials and make sure that both sides are having fun and I'm not sure they're hitting that target at the moment.
That system was also punishing completely innocent players, and in fact, still is.
I cannot believe people are advocating for MORE of that, because make no mistake, that's what we will be
For me? Everyone I used to play with played both roles, but pretty much everyone is gone now. Game is very different than how it was when we started.
Ah, I see.
Here's the thing, we have tried the carrot with tunneling. We've seen what happens when Killers have a ton of regression and no "need" to tunnel. Eruption, CoB, PR, Pop, Overcharge, Corrupt etc etc. Huge amounts of regression and still we saw a ton of tunneling, camping and slugging.
We have never tried that with DC'ing. Maybe it'll be different, maybe it won't. I hardly think addressing stuff like how terrible Survivor BP gains are, how low the Shard gain is, how bad some of the challenges are or how you can be removed from the match would make the game worse.
I expected people wouldn't like the changes. People hate when their role gets changed, no matter how needed it might be. I didn't expect that BHVR would immediately cave and likely scrap the system entirely when they've pushed much worse things to Live and not cared.
The issue it works like this only in a really few matches. Like against Krasue, where all 4 tends to give up from the start.
Killers won’t care about one person DCibg it. Moreover, they would like let such team last longer, holding them as hostages, because it's already more like 3vs1, and play for chases, rather then being stressed about some timer that usually chases them. Killers right now is also pretty unfun role and I also find DC frustrating, but not, that’s not enough for me to stop q as killer. I’ll stop do this only if after 15 minutes of wait u I wouldn't be able to find with who I can play.
If you want to continue with an analogue of basketball... Imagine you are playing alone against 4 people, and suddenly you notice how one of them refuse to play properly.
What you are usually gonna do? Abuse it. Because other 3 might actually want to outplay you. That's how people usually play games. They don’t waste 5 bullets to the chest of some random ebemy, they’ll prefer to do quick headshot to NPC to save some for stronger opponent. Because such approach allow more interesting, but safe game later. You won’t loose - because they, that their teammate literally gifted you a win. But you might allow yourself having interesting chases with survivors later.
The question is how easy it is to aim for that very head. And DCing is helping to your enemy by standing still, which I don't appreciate. I may understand why people thinking DCing will work like you described, but again 10 YEARS of game showed it doesn't really work, people still play basketball.
Maybe that's show people will do this no matter what?
So, maybe following your own logic, giving carrot to survivors won’t stop them to DC?
I'm truly amazed at how, without my intervention, you continue to bury your own arguments with contradictions that you create yourself. “We aren’t sure in outcome” doesn't matter. Because it's the most baffling argument person could ever provide in such topic. You also don’t know outcome of proper DC ban, just this thing demolish such unstable position.
That's why I don’t really like such discussions on this forum. As soon as you try to argue somehow objectively , people trying to throw emotional sentiment and hypothesis without proofs, calling it valid experience that should be prevalent. But as soon as you show it contradicts to some cases, they urgently call “it's different”, “but fun is more important”, or something else that doesn't actually correlate to PvP genre or balancing
A lot of people seem to think they know the exact motivations behind every DC that occurs. In many of my matches, I have no idea why. The only thing BHVR can go off of is the discontent people vocally express. And the fact that they're largely ignoring that discontent shows how significant it likely is (or isn't) to their bottom line. These supossed endless DCs everyone talks about must not be hurting the game as much as people assume.
In my killler matches, people are more likely to try to die on purpose than DC which is really much worse. But there's never going to be a system that can read people's minds, so analyzing these intents without accidentally punishing people simply for being bad is impossible. People will always find a way to leave matches if the game remains consistently frustrating.
The fact that it's vastly more survivors that ragequit is pretty telling. Killers have a chance at a win up until the last second even when they play terrible, but some early scenarios are instant doom for survivors even when they're good players. Why regular comebacks are possible for one side but mostly impossible for the other is the most baffling thing to me me about the game's current structure.
And I'm telling you that I don’t think the root causes exist and so your advocacy starts and ends with defending DCing IMO. It's a symptom of bad atittude and not any problem with game balance. As evidenced by the fact that this problem has ALWAYS existed regardless of the state of game balance, and happens consistently regardless of the state of the match.
The reason doesn't matter to me, but it does to you. Which is why I brought it up. I'm trying to explain that the "frustrated with game issues" argument doesn't track, because these people are giving up left and right in games where said issues are NOT even happening. A match can be going as well as humanly possible for one side and they'll still just DC. You would've been correct a year or two ago when DCs were mostly reserved for a very early down, or a tunnel out, or some other situation that seems untenable. But these people have taken it too far and now just give up over anything or nothing. There's no rhyme or reason to it anymore. You can play the least offensive Killer possible, in the least offensive way and they're still going to DC. So the "average game is miserable and that's why they DC" thing just doesn't work. Because even when the games are good, they're STILL abandoning. Therefore the conclusion I come to is that these people don’t like DbD.
No. They should try their best to find a balance between fun to play and fun to verse. But naturally, they're not always going to get it right and sometimes there's Killers you hate for non-balance reasons. Of course BHVR needs to address the former ASAP, but the latter is inevitable and people need to accept that that is just part of the game and that if they want to play it, they're going to see such characters. DCing is not an appropriate response (unless there's medical reasons like your migraines, but that's an accessibility issue and not what most of these players are doing).
You're intentionally taking my point and conflating it with the most extreme position someone could possibly hold on this issue in order to discredit me. No, normal players shouldn't be banned.
No. I don't know that. I truly, wholeheartedly, believe that if people stopped responding in this manner to DCing that it would go away. Seriously. I legitemately think that it's a behaviour that is primarily being enabled by the community. You might think that's naive, but I truly believe that. 100%.
No, they won't. People are greatly perturbed by minor inconveniences. As soon as giving up becomes any more involved than having to hit a DC button or let go on hook, most of the playerbase doing it will stop. Of course there will be a determined minority who will go to great lengths to bypass anything you do, but most won't. It's human nature. As soon as you make it even a little bit more tricky, most reconsider. It’s the principle behind a great many things in society.
All that needs doing is to make it so the first DC is no longer free. 60 seconds or maybe 2 minute for the first DC. It’s short enough not to be overly punishing for legitimate emergencies/crashes but long enough to make players have to wait before their next match so they can no longer DC and be in another game within 30 seconds.
Most of your list is moot because:
A. Most of these things are bannable anyways. AFKing is already detected and punished.
B. It would never come to this anyways, at least not for most players. Most people value their time enough that if “going next” involves having to run to the Killer and go through all the hooks/unhooks that they’ll deem it not worth it.
So if people DC because of bad attitudes or mild inconveniences why don't more killers DC? With this belief, you should see more killers with no hooks DC at 3 gens popping, or even just a single lost chase, but it's not that common at all. It's all the same player base, after all, so why is only one side so much more bothered by these mild inconveniences?
Like I said immediately following that statement, it is entirely possible that it won't solve the issue. I am not clairvoyant. I do not see the future; I do not know the hearts and minds of every player, and I admit as such.
What I do know is that there's no harm in say, making matches worth staying in. I know there's no harm in helping out Solo Q with new emotes or a communication wheel.
What else do I know? I know what we've been doing hasn't been working.
I can do nothing to change how you feel, but don't put words in my mouth simply because you disagree with my position.
What I am trying to say is that this has been building over years. It isn't justified, but I have been able to see this coming since at least 2021. People have reached their breaking point with DBD, and yes, they should take a break. It clearly isn't doing them any good sticking around. However, this has been building for a long time. I am sure the recent walk-back of changes and then the release of Krasue has intensified these feelings.
The system we have already bans innocent players. Anti Go-Next grabs people who get tunneled already. Any attempts to make the system stricter or to expand the scope will grab more innocent players. That is what will happen.
I will rephrase. I suspect you know that the community will never come together like that. It is theoretically possible that it would work out the way you hope if they did, but they will not unite on this.
No. If people aren't having fun, they will find a way to give up. Even when DC penalties were at their strictest, there was a ton of DC'ing and giving up.
Every time we have tried to play wack-a-mole with this issue, it simply slides and turns into something else. People will always find a way to get out of a game they find unfun. That is human nature. You have to be prepared to see this path through to the logical conclusion, which is trying to police intent. If not, perhaps we should reconsider?
No one is saying the game shouldn't improve QoL. But allowing this behavior or trying to justify it is still unacceptable. Like, this is literally sabotaging of the whole gameplay. How to even sympathise such people and listen them?
How are we allowing it? There are penalties. They don't really work.
Why should we continue to dump time and resources into a system that doesn't work?
QoL has a chance to positively impact both the DC rate, and thereby the quality of the average match, AND simultaneously improve the normal player experience. Why shouldn't we focus on that?
No words are being put in your mouth. If you're against punishing people for DCing then you're on the side of DCing. It's that simple to me. I apologise if you feel that's unjust, but I really do believe that.
Pray tell, where have you seen me ask for the go-next prevention system to be made any stricter? Where have you seen me mention that system at all in fact? I'm talking about DC penalties and DC penalties alone. THEY need to be stricter. Going next in that manner was adequately addressed by removing escape attempts. The solution to preventing give ups is to make it inconvenient — not impossible.
Yeah because y'all are refusing to take a stand on it. Handwaving it away with "Well frustrations have been mounting for a long time" every time this gets brought up does nothing to help. It's completely inconsequential whether or not they've been mounting for a day, a week, a month, or years. It's completely inconsequential whether said frustrations even exist. The point is that a lot of players are engaing in rulebreaking, unsportsmanlike behaviour and it should be dealt with (whatever the reason behind it) as rulebreaking, unsportsmanlike behaviour. And instead of that the comments on these posts are always just feeding into it.
It would 100% work but y'all aren't doing it so idek what to say. Again, this is a problem that the players themselves have cooked up.
Well, yeah. Because when they address one part of it (like removing unhook attempts) they weaken the other half of it (DC penalties). If you make it harder to go next on hook but then give people multiple free DCs a day of course the problem won't be solved. They just self sabotaged their own solution. Revert DC penalties to be as strict as they were previously, and the DCs will go down. That's it. All of this slippery slope talk is just that — talk. It won't happen. The automated system to detect going next is silly — it'll never work ina game with so many variables. But a simple DC penalty and inability to let go on hook WILL. No one is going to hatch these convoluted plans to get around all of the proposed penalties you keep listing because A) those additional penalties won't be needed and B) It's too much effort, and the chronic DCers will just stop playing.
I do not understand the insistence on taking this to extreme hypotheticals. The game is not going to drop dead if they toughen the DC penalties, please. All they need is to test it. Give it a month, and if it doesn't work revert it and no harm was done. But if it does work — which it WILL — then perfect. Problem solved.
Why it doesn't work? Before they removed penalty for first dc, DC was much less occurrence
Again. This people must to be punished for sandbagging teammates and griefing. I don’t care
There were still huge threads about DCs.
They are being punished, literally as we speak. You are acting like there's no system in place.
IT IS NO SYSTEM!!! LITERALLY!!!
You aren't getting DC ban that strict anymore, you literally can freely DC without punishment two times per 24 hours
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
That's a very good point. I think physically a lot of people are done, but mentally they're still catching up. It says a lot about their investment since that sort of reaction is usually reserved for things that impact people on a deeper level. That's the level of support BHVR has but doesn't appreciate (in my opinion).
I agree, but I will say that DCing is mostly a Survivor issue because they seem to do it the most. It's also one of the most one-sided arguments in the game. We can admit that camping/tunneling/slugging is out of control. We can admit that MMR is terrible. We can admit that Survivor perks are less attractive and less effective (going by the frequency of "meta" perks on each side). We can admit that the changes to Survivor this year have been pretty brutal. We can even agree that by design Survivors are supposed to lose much more often. But we can't give them a pass for getting frustrated enough to leave? Even when that doesn't affect the majority of trials anymore? Even when there's harsh penalties for doing so?
I think the rage about phase 2 encapsulates that feeling pretty well. One side feels targeted, while the other is targeted. I'm not trying to make a federal case out of it, but it does frame everything else in the game and the community surrounding it.
This. I don't understand how people aren't getting this. DCs are literally free right now. That's why everyone is just DCing. All they need to do is reinstate proper penalties! That's it. Everyone is acting like it's an impossible task or something when the solution is so simple.
I still fail to see the big deal about dcing. Just take the win. Like don't force killers or survivors to stay in a match that isn't fun.
And yet we have people in here claiming they see DC's in a third of their matches, iirc.
People are getting the penalties. They just don't care.
I have no idea if that's true, for the record. The last update I heard was that it was match-based. You have to play a certain number of matches in order to clear the record. I haven't heard any announcements stating this was changed. Do you have any of that information so I can read it?
I highly agree and we've seen the evidence of this since at least year 6. When it comes to an issue like DCing, I genuinely find it hard to believe that the bulk of the complaints are coming from Survivors. I do think it's more from Killers that want a PVE experience without it actually being PVE.
Still not what I'm saying. I am against further punishment without addressing common pain points.
Because we have never seen a flat-out reduction in "give up" events. We have seen them shift from DC'ing into suicides back into DC'ing. If we continue to double-down and never address anything else, we will start to see calls for further policing.
This point is just moronic, and I don't think you really mean it. Of course it matters what causes it. Of course it matters why people are frustrated. Whether or not you think it's justified is down to personal opinion at the end of the day, but saying it doesn't matter why is just silly.
I suppose we'll see. Considering that pretty much everything I predicted would happen when DC penalties got introduced as happened, I think I'm probably right. Especially if nothing else changes.
BHVR doesn't revert things like that. Neither will you. Even if it doesn't work, we'll be stuck with it because the second you say the phrase, "We're loosening penalties" people will go absolutely feral and DC en masse. Nobody will want that, so they'll keep the system.
They don’t get actual penalties. They doesn't exist at all
I gave them an escape just because it's third match I see people giving up. On 5 gens! Hell nuh I would even try to listen words of people who just leave their teammates to deal with their frustration.
I literally had 5 matches in a row - p100 Blight, Trapper from DBD League, Krasue, 3 ghouls, Huntress with iri hatchet. I didn't DC and played every match as survivor. Neither should others. When I felt bad being killer, I had a long pause of playing. Same I do with survivors. It's only a question of mindset and someone whims, it can’t be justified and I wouldn’t even try to seriously accept demands of such people, because when I played as survivor they sabdbagged me so many times, they killed any empathy to them. And many others feel the same
I DCed my last session (pours gasoline over my head in anticipation) and it was free. I haven't done it twice in a row per 20 trials so I can't confirm on the frequency at all, but I know at least one is free.
I am experiencing this in around a third of my games. AND I'll even give you some of the reecpts. My last 10 games as per the official DbD stats website:
I have no desire to test it, which is why I've been taking people's word for it. I was just curious if it was announced anywhere like the last set of changes.
I don't blame you. Trust me, I'm hesitant to even AFK when I'm kissing the floor for 4 minutes just in case the system flags me.
You've contradicted your own points repeatedly so far, as @tes has already pointed out but this one is easily the most egregious. You've said that they can't (in the hypothetical scenario) loosen the DC penalities because everyone will just DC. Which is the exact thing that is literally happening right now because they lowered the DC penalties several patches back. If loosening a penalty would encourage DCing, then why can you not accept that raising it would discourage it? This is straight doublethink.
The DCing is happening because there's no proper penalty. That's it. Not having a proper penalty in place is allowing players with unsportsmanlike attitudes to abandon any matches they want for any reason. This huge wave of DCing started when they dropped the penalties. Penalise them properly again and it will stop. All of this talk of "longstanding frustrations" or whatever else is just an intentional attempt to muddy the waters and make them seem deep, when it's actually incredibly simple. Low/no penalties = DCs. Penalties = No DCs. That's it.
I wholeheartedly stand by what I said. I do not care whatsoever about the cause of it. The feelings of people who consistently abandon their teammates in a PvP game do not matter at all to me. I literally don't think it's worth listening to anything they have to say about the game because they're going out of their way to cause it immense harm. These players don't get to do everything they can to sabotage a role and in the same breath complain about how bad the role is. You can call me moronic for that but it doesn't change my opinion.
From some of your other comments it sounds like you don't actually play the game anymore. And with that context, your point makes more sense because you don't actually have to deal with the behaviour that you're defending. And that is how this comes across to me. There's nothing that could reasonably qualify "I am against further punishment" when it comes to repeated DCing for me. The end of your sentence does not justify the start and only serves to enable bad behaviour IMO.
Of course you're perfectly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a harmful one. But I'm sure you'd say the same thing about mine so I guess we're at an impasse.
Wasn't doubting you, just pointing out that if people are DC'ing so often, then they are getting hit with the penalty.