Houndmaster - Revisited
So, some time ago, I proposed some changes that the devs could do to Houndmaster to make her a better killer.
I'd like to redo them in this post. Constructive feedback is appreciated.
Here they are:
Chase Command:
• Make Snug's pull cycles faster. In short, this makes Snug have more pull strength.
Search Command:
• Polish it up so it snaps to stuff better. This is my only wish.
Houndsense:
• It NEEDS to do more. Currently it only highlights survivors (which is helpful), applies Deep Wounds (which also helps a bit), and increases the volume of survivor sounds, but only when hitting them (which does not help)?
• The easiest thing to do would be to make the tracking effects apply at all times while it is active.
Bugs (please fix them asap):
• The Houndsense bug that makes it vanish from everyone when a survivor dies or is unhooked.
• The model bug which causes her to have that weird smile.
• The missing voicelines (she is supposed to have stun voicelines).
• The bug where Snug gets stuck on things.
• New bug from 9.0.0 - Sometimes, the game starts to get incredibly choppy and stuttery while you're moving. No idea why it happens.
Add-ons:
Sticky Pitch (Rework):
• Decreases the Slipstream decay speed by 40%.
Creature's Bone (Rework):
• Every time the Dog gets stunned, your lunge increases by 20% for 20 seconds.
• This effect deactivates after a successful Basic Attack.
Smoked Snapper (Rework):
• Increases the radius of Houndsense by 20%.
Barley Meal (Buff):
• Increase the bonus distance to 30%.
Belaying Pins (Buff):
• Increase the duration to 30 seconds.
Knotted Rope (Buff):
• Increase the Basic Attack reduction to 8%
Training Bell (Rework):
• Snug now always pulls survivors away from pallets, regardless of your location.
Waterskin (Rework):
• After the Dog gets stunned by a pallet, it will break after a 2 second delay.
Spiky Collar (Buff):
• Increase the duration to 70 seconds.
Leather Harness (Buff):
• Increase the duration of its effect to 60 seconds.
Gunpowder Tin (Buff):
• Increase the duration of its effect to 30 seconds.
Ship Figurehead (Change):
• Now also decreases the range of the Dog's Lullaby by 50%.
Torn Novel (Rework):
• Allows you to Redirect the Dog twice.
Comments
And if the pallet is already dropped, or if she waits for you to drop the pallet before sending the dog? Then she sends the dog over the pallet in less than 1.5s, and if you get away, she can just redirect to get you. Unless you break los twice within like 2 seconds, which isn't realistically consistent at all, you get hit.
She should get an entirely different power. She's literally just wesker but worse designed
Then what would her power be? What would the dog do?
“And if the pallet is already dropped”
A. Then wait on the other side of the pallet to see 1) what the killer will do or 2) what the dog is doing.
B. If you haven’t made it to the pallet yet that has been dropped, you need to fake the dog out IF she decides to have snug enter a chase.
“Then she sends the dog over the pallet in less than 1.5s, and if you get away, she can just redirect to get you”
This is more than enough time to react to Snug and dodge him.
“Unless you break los twice within like 2 seconds, which isn't realistically consistent at all, you get hit.“
Now I see why you’re getting bullied by snug. You’re treating him like nurse… when you should be treating him like blight/Billy. Hug walls and tight corners. He will likely get stuck due to his Ai pathing. No need to lose LOS constantly. The killer can’t move anyways. Any object, barrel, tree, will do just fine.
From what you are telling me, you are looping houndmaster all wrong.
Idk
"This is more than enough time to react to Snug and dodge him."
Factually incorrect since snug's hitbox is over double the size of wesker's
"Now I see why you’re getting bullied by snug. You’re treating him like nurse… when you should be treating him like blight/Billy. Hug walls and tight corners. He will likely get stuck due to his Ai pathing. No need to lose LOS constantly. The killer can’t move anyways. Any object, barrel, tree, will do just fine."
What are you even talking about? Hugging walls and tight corners won't do anything of the dog has LOS on you since they can just dash towards you, what I'm describing also applies to billy and even moreso blight, you break LOS since they have a power that goes in a mostly straight line
Delete the power entirely… and change but no feedback or thoughts on to what. Just nerf nerf, delete, change…..idk….
“Factually incorrect since snug's hitbox is over double the size of wesker's”
What size is Weskers hitbox versus the dog? Just so I know factually.
Even if the dog 🐕 has LOS you dodge him. Fake him out. It’s rather simple. Turn camera, see where dog is head, take 2 steps to the left or right, do a fancy spin it doesn’t matter.. honestly the fancy spin works the best….also there is an unnecessary amount of clutter in this game. You can use literally anything to help you against snug.
My feedback is that she needs an entirely new power, I'm not obliged to give any more feedback than that
Wesker's surv hitbox is 30cm
You cannot consistently dodge the dog so long as the houndmaster player can aim
Sure you’re of course, you don’t work for BHVR but don’t expect anyone or the team to take anything you say seriously since there is no feedback to give them to use.
Devs: “hey - what’s wrong with this killer? What’s up?”
You: Nerf them to 0.90 vault speed like in the PTB or just delete their power for a new one”
Devs “Woah! Okay…what new power would you find more enjoyable or fun?”
You: “Idk”
Devs: “okay, well…get back to us when you do! Take your time! NEXT!”
You: “😑”
Im not even trying to be silly or sarcastic…this is why feedback is so important because it opens doors for new change, opportunities, ideas and solutions for a better experience which at the end of the day is good for you, good for me, and great for DBD!
So I encourage you to think on it before just saying “idk or nerf, or delete or change”
Even if the dog grabs you it’s not a guaranteed hit.
So long as you're not by an undropped pallet (which in the situation we're talking about you're definitely not) it's a hit 90% of the time
Saying that a killer needs a new power and why is feedback enough whether you like it or not, frankly, get over it
I will agree to disagree on this one. Especially as a P100 Houndmaster. I have seen it all. I could be a valid experience for you and that's fine but I see plenty of other creative ways survivors get around this.
Oh its feedback alright. Just not anything useful.
Y'think you would've mentioned any of them by now
Objectively false
I made a list. You're just bypassing it. I tried to get feedback from you on how to make her a better killer. You had…..no useful feedback.
Again agree to disagree. :)
No you didn't? Where's the list of things you can do to avoid getting hit after getting snatched by snug besides stunning
We can agree to disagree in the sense of not talking about it anymore but you are objectively wrong lol
You can say that, but I know I am not.
You can say that, but I know you are
Let me break it down for you. Again. While I didn’t make a “formal” list, I still broke it down. Hope this helps.
Countering The HoundMaster is ALL about not getting grabbed by the dog to begin with. All the ways to avoid not only dog grabs but additional hits to keep you in chase longer against her.
Hope this helps…like @SoGo said based off your responses, I doubt it, but you have the knowledge now. If you still don't get it. Go watch "How to counter houndmaster videos" This killer is barely B tier especially with all her terrible game breaking bugs she has right now.
I disagree :)
If you have any other feedback to offer, due write in!
Thinking houndmaster is barely B tier is quite literally on you btw. How about I go watch "how to counter houndmaster" videos and you stop blaming your inability to aim on the game. She's at least A tier, not objective but not debatable whatsoever, there's no reason to think otherwise unless you can't aim with her
You can disagree all you want, you're still factually wrong
you're just annoyed at a killer and want to see them nerfed with no valid reason or the slightest idea of a proper change just "idk, delete/rework"
houndmaster is an underwhelming killer and the survivors have a lot more to do against her than she can do against them and on top of that she's a buggy mess so you can't even properly gauge her power level cuz she hasn't been fully functional since her release yet you're complaining like she's blight.
I have contributed about as much or more than people who can't admit that houndmaster is poorly designed, saying that she needs a new power is contribution whether you like it or not, and I've given valid reason for why, it's not my problem if you refuse to acknowledge that, and I'm not obliged to come up with an entire new power for her just because I recognize that she needs one, seriously, just drop it
Houndmaster is low-mid A tier according to everyone that knows what they're talking about because she's literally objectively better than wesker in almost every way, just look at the stats, and she's not nearly buggy enough to change that. Killers can be problematic without being S tier btw, so how are you gonna say I've contributed nothing meaningful to this thread after making a comment like that implying killers can't be complained about unless they're blight? Crazy
Frankly I think BHVR should stay away from any more Killers with AI companions as a power, they never seem to turn out very well. Either they end up too strong, or they end up with a billion reworks that destroy the Killer.
Houndmaster is a cool concept. My issue is that she feels bad to play against (how am I intended to loop or counter her at ALL, the counterplay doesn't seem obvious to me at all), and frankly she feels buggy to play as with a bad addon selection to boot.
You can say that about like 7 killers now.
And, giving killers a new power historucally never worked.
That's not just you noticing, unfortunately this is a common pattern I've noticed amongst some of the newer Survivor-biased posters on these forums. It's just Us versus Them by another name, "Buffs and fixes for me but not for thee."
Yeah.
Believe it or not, I have encountered worse.
In a nutshell, that person's deal was: Everything killer does is unfair and should be nerfed. You make a suggestion to buff a C tier killer? Cue the "survivors have suffered enough" and making themselves victim.
While I don't think Houndmaster is C tier in the right hands at all, I do think she's buggy and needs some addressing. I feel like she's in a similar boat as poor ol' Knight and could use some looking at, but her power overall is fine. It's a weird boat to be in.
She definitely doesn't need a full on power rework.
I was not talking about Houndmaster or the person that's complaining in this thread.
This one was a completely different case.
Oh my mistake. I thought the thread was about Houndmaster. /gen
You're right though, even harmless asks for buffs to lower tier Killers get the massive complaint and downvote treatment. I'm not sure why, are people scared if we buff lower tiers they suddenly will be too strong or something? The game has to change and update to keep these Killers relevant.
9. There’s nothing wrong with power vaults. If there were Houndmaster would be beyond S tier better than nurse.. let’s be so for real. You’re just proving you need practice against this killer or that you struggle to loop her and her dog. It’s okay. I’m here to help. Refer back to my list for a reference when you need it.
10.You can fake the window to have snug vault over pallets and windows to waste more time and buy you more distance. Your takes on “fair” are outlandish so I am moving on. Refer back to point 2, 3 and 12.
11. Literally said at the top “All the ways to avoid not only dog grabs BUT additional hits to keep you in chase longer against her.” We are moving very quickly I know, it’s okay. Keep up.
12. Refer to point 9 here. ^ HA!!!! We finally agree on something! Redirects should exist.
13. I’m confused, is your camera man broken? Can you not turn it to face the dog real quick? If you can’t. Fire your camera man. Hire a new one. Refer back to points, 1,2,3, 12 or use dead hard but I believe you declined, however the option is still there, yet another resource.
You’re missing the point. She’s barely b tier because of all her bugs. Vault snug over a loop or redirect? 50% of the time I will be at 3.5 ms. Sound fair?
Go to use dog for chase? If snug touches any surface at all. He poofs away. Gone. Power on reset. Survivor gone at the next loop. Then I have to catch up. Sounds fair?
Pull strength bugged aka No pull strength unless YOU choose 120fps. Game runs on 60 fps…Ontop of no longer pulling back to Houndmaster. Sounds fair
Dog gets stuck constantly on walls, debris, and elevation? No power for 20+ seconds. Tell me, is that fair?
I spent half the match trying to get him to go to certain locations because the power is as limited or broken as pinheads gateway power…
You’re all about being “fair” advocate fixes for these bugs. Then I’ll drop the topic on buffs or adjustments. That sounds fair to me. :)
Countering her is way easier than you think my friend.
You can say that about like 7 killers, according to who exactly?
Giving killers a new poer historically never worked, also according to who?
"Tell me you don’t play Houndmaster without telling you don’t play her."
I do play houndmaster, making assumptions doesn't make your argument look any better
"He’s also a lot smaller and harder to use than weskers grab, so it’s fair. We’ve been over this."
No we haven't lol. He's smaller visually than wesker, ok? Literally what difference does that make? The hitbox is still bigger. Harder to use than wesker? So you admit it's an issue of skill, not the game, also one which you just made up? Literally grasping at straws
"'It's 8 seconds, literally where are you getting 1 second from?' This just isn’t true. Refer back to 6. When you’re done with 6 in a trial refer back to, 1,2 and 12."
4.6 movement speed * 8 seconds is 44.8 meters, literally just basic math, what are you doing trying to say an objective fact is "just not true"?
"There’s nothing wrong with power vaults. If there were Houndmaster would be beyond S tier better than nurse.. let’s be so for real. You’re just proving you need practice against this killer or that you struggle to loop her and her dog. It’s okay. I’m here to help. Refer back to my list for a reference when you need it."
Things can be problematic without making a killer OP lol, literally the most basic knowledge in the dbd community, and you're making your lack of it my problem. Only thing being proven here is that you don't know what you're talking about since you're acting like things are only problematic if they're OP
"You can fake the window to have snug vault over pallets and windows to waste more time and buy you more distance."
Ok, but again, the houndmaster player can just aim, noticing a common issue here…
"Literally said at the top “All the ways to avoid not only dog grabs BUT additional hits to keep you in chase longer against her.” We are moving very quickly I know, it’s okay. Keep up."
Sorry for not reading a part of your comment that had nothing to do with the current conversation I guess?
"I’m confused, is your camera man broken? Can you not turn it to face the dog real quick? If you can’t. Fire your camera man. Hire a new one. Refer back to points, 1,2,3, 12 or use dead hard but I believe you declined, however the option is still there, yet another resource."
I'm not denying that looking behind you in chase is helpful, but it's not gonna stop you from getting hit so long as the houndmaster player can aim, again, noticing a theme here
"Dog gets stuck constantly on walls, debris, and elevation? No power for 20+ seconds. Tell me, is that fair?"
He gets stuck sometimes, but for 20+ seconds? That literally almost never happens, that and everything else you're saying, just blowing the effect her bugs have on her strength way out of proportion as an excuse to request buffs for a character that doesn't deserve it because you can't bother to aim
You say "survivor-biased" as though you're neutral :/
Is Freddy not enough of a reason to not repeat it?
And there are multiple killers with 2 dashes, so...
Why are you doing math on something that doesn’t need math? I’m talking about the animation time it takes for a survivor to set another survivor free. It’s around 1-2 seconds at most. Period.
Her bugs are most certainly an issue. I have a lot more videos if you want them.
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When you said “his ai is viable enough to go around objects” yet this happens every match.
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What are you talking about? Freddy's in a great spot now, and even before he was still 100x better than his initial power
Ok that wasn't made clear until now. So what we're left with is a killer that unfairly gets hits and unfairly has them taken away from her, clearly well designed /s
Still a snoozefest to play as in my personal opinion, a sanitized version of him with 0 ties to his original, unique power. Even though some small changes were all it would take to make him perfect.
And, how long did it take again? 5 years? 6?
Yeah. I do not intend to wait years to get a rework that ultimately didn't need to happen.
But, I digress. It's kind of obvious that there is just not a way for us to agree on anything about her, and bickering only bloats this discussion with an argument that leads nowhere.
So, let's just stop here and agree that we just have very different visions of what she should be.
"Even though some small changes were all it would take to make him perfect."
Yeah right, his original power was one of the worst designed things ever, literally no chase power but free aura reading, so he was just forced into a brainless hit and run playstyle that only worked on soloq. The post-rework version of freddy was bad too, but a snoozefest, compared to the original power? Absolutely not
I’ve actually said it twice now, it was very clear. I couldn’t have been more clear. I literally said “Survivors can release the dog off of YOU. It’s a 1 second animation.”
No we are left with a ton of bugs.
Her hits are more than fair because as you said the killer has to actually aim. If you have to aim it requires skill. Those hits are deserved. Houndmaster has a high skill ceiling.
You don’t seem to enjoy any killer designs or the game at all. I’m really not sure what drives you. Like why bother at this point.