(Controversial opinion) nerfing gen regression into the ground caused tunneling and camping to up
So not long ago when gen regression meta got nerfed i said *if you nerf gen regression perks into the ground its just gonna promote tunneling* and now here we are killers are gonna tunnel cause now first 30 seconds of the game if you dont down someone you are gonna be behind. Pain resonance still a good perk same with pop but some other perks are bad or freddy bad.
I will ask you, have you ever seen call of brine, undone, dragons grip, or some Mediocre perk that requires something to get something? You prob did but you prob seen it once every blue moon. Hell even hex ruin is pretty bad spot right now.
Now im gonna ask about survivor perks, you see pain resonance and pop both perks requires you to hook survivors. But, what about survivor perks? What do they gotta do to activate their perks? Well just be in a match, alot of survivor perks just requires you to be there. Im talking from dwight all the way to felix. All perks (felix is the last one to do it) that requires you to be in a match to get benefits. Theres no way killer can stop the perk from activated (felix perk requires you the killer to let them heal to counter the perk). Theres also no way the killer can know this perk activates and im not even talking about gen progression perks im talking about all perks that activate by being in a match. Just imagine if a killer has a perk that said all gens regress for no reason im pretty sure everyone would be mad.
Now bhvr is introducing bnp perks (which are weak but introducing a scary concept perks) and we have bnps that is still strong. Toolboxes got an unnecessary buffs to sabo so if you finally got that deserved down to get more pressure you can lose it in a second cause survivors can sabo hooks at speed of light. And, flashbang can put a killer in a lose lose situation and theres nothing they can do which only way to counter this is to slug or just wait for them to stop doing no skill flashbang save. Toolboxes are still strong and can stack with gen progression perks to make gens fly. I was on a gen with anniversary toolbox with deja vu and the gen flew so fast.
Then i made post saying bhvr buffed alot of survivor perks but no killer perks was just a bad idea (alot of people say im a killer main but i play both and i will say this patch was survivor sided hands down).
Then theres the maps, the maps are just bad. Realm offerings need removed cause i got sent to dead dawg saloon soooo many times for survivors use perks that either have no counter to bully me or they just locker save me. And, theres so many maps that are survivor sided that arent fun (looking at badham) and im starting to bring lightborn and realm decline offering or dc in the menu.
Killers have to tunnel cause kicking gens dont help anymore cause once they help they get nerfed. More nerfs to something that helps killer bring pressure means killers will tunnel more to bring more pressure.
Comments
I hope your data also shows that killers have to get a down in 30 seconds or else they be behind. I also hope your data also shows gens get done faster then it has ever done before.
Tunneling is more efficient to combat toolboxes and make more pressure
I play survivor and i noticed more Tunneling after gen regression you guys gutted
Well summarized! I feel the same. Have been using surge alone for over a year now with sometimes switching it for huntress lullaby for the juicy "survivor cleanses my totem" - time waste.
I wouldn't say almost always, regarding the amount of people that play a very strong killer and get someone out at 5 gens despite the opponent being solo for no apparent reason at all.
Tunneling is done because it's effective most of the time and as a necessary evil in certain situations. At least from my experience.
Even if gens took 120 seconds, people that gravitate toward hardtunneling will always hardtunnel. It's not just about getting a "fair match" for them, it's purely about winning. And tunneling causes you to win more games. I think the only real solution to fix tunneling is to balance around hooks, not kills, so somehow you're rewarded equally for continuing to chase the guy you're already chasing, instead of bolting it across the map to tunnel someone off hook.
I agree there should be balancing around hooks but we have an issue with the MMR system in that it's not an advancement mechanism; it's a mechanism to theoretically ensure you're adequately placed into a match. Emblems was an advancement mechanism that did encourage multiple hooks but it's only used for BP now.
That's why I think the focus has to be on overhauls to game mechanics if the MMR system is to be kept.
I doubt BHVR forms a conclusion and then tries to get data to support the conclusion as BHVR seems far more on the ball than to make such an obvious error. You have to get data and then form the conclusion from the data. If that's what you feel is accurate the data will reflect that overall and, if not, then it's not supported.
There is nothing in the player interface of the game that even hints that MMR even exists. And even what we know of MMR from knowledge circulating the community, paints it as a system you should just ignore.
Emblems still exist and contribute to your only tangible reward system; bloodpoints.
The focus is already there. It never left.
The problem is the community brain rot caused by a viral obsession over MMR.
no, nerfing of gen regression perks didn't lead to strategies that are highly situational to become meta. Reaction of average survivor to camping and/or tunneling in their match led to those becoming meta.
The vast majority of tunnelers radically change their way of playing as soon as they believe that the match is already lost for them. They will switch to the “At least I'll take this one” mentality. Obviously, the fact that two or three gens can be finished in the first chase does not help. It doesn't matter if the game then slows down and the killer manages to turn the situation around, the key to why he plays the way he does is the gen completion. There are even a ton fo killer who play "normal" for the whole match but suddenly decide to triple tunnel someone. The faster the game progresses and the more overwhelmed the killer feels, the more he will tunnel.
This is one of the best in-depts and concise take on the whole problem. Bravo.
You can say that's the vast majority and that might be why you tunnel but that's not my experience. My experience is that the majority of tunnellers tunnel right from the start. Of course we can only speak to our own individual experiences but it's hyperbolic to say the vast majority tunnel due to gen completion or at the start without prefacing it with a 'in my experience'.
Once you get to the point where you consider that the only way to win is to play this way, nothing will make you go back. Stages where the gen regression is weak (like the current one) create new tunnelers, but stages where it's strong (like the kick meta) don't change anything, because everyone is aware that it will not last forever.
You start strategically tunnelling to turn around games that seem lost, but you end up doing it in most games. And when the time comes, you will come to the conclusion that it is better to do it from the start, because you can't tell if your opponent will give you the chance.
The issue though is that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy (or you just arrived at the soft cap which is a different situation). MMR doesn't care how you won; it only cares if you did win. As such, if you start to tunnel and camp because you're losing a match then MMR will start to place you against tougher and tougher opponents. This leads to a self-perpetuating cycle where, because tunnelling is so disproportionately effective, you're now in a situation where you feel like you have to tunnel but that's not the issue. The issue is that you could have had a win rate of over 50 percent if you hadn't tunnelled and would have eventually gotten to where you are now (and your games would have been more enjoyable since your chase skills and macro skills would have been at that level as well) but tunnelling was a short cut to winning games you wouldn't have won if you hadn't tunnelled. It's an easy go to but the alternative is if you're comfortable with losing some games, which people should be in a multiplayer video game, is simply not to tunnel and camp and let your skills develop naturally.
If you're just at the soft cap that's a different situation because of how a soft cap works. If you face a player who had 300 more MMR than you then you statistically have a less than one percent chance to win. Although BHVR regularly matches below the soft cap at 200 points difference (which is roughly a 25 percent chance to win) at the soft cap you can get games matched against 300, 500 or 600 MMR points higher opponent. At that point you might as well AFK if you're looking to win and not to see if there's anything you can learn as the match's outcome is practically preordained. That's a niche situation but it could give you the impression you need to tunnel as well but that's only in that niche situation. If you got there by tunnelling, however, it would be more enjoyable to not tunnel and get out of the soft cap as quickly as possible so your games have much better matchmaking.
Everything causes camping and tunnelling to go up. I remember when the hot topic was Dead Hard. Killers HAD to tunnel and camp because DH made it so hard for them to get the kill otherwise. Flash forward to the DH nerf and, quelle surprise, killers carried on. Gens weee popping too quickly - Camp and Tunnel. Repair times were extended and tool kits were nerfed - killers still camped and tunnelled. It being the easiest method to getting a 4k is and always has been the only reason Camping and Tunnelling is so highly used.
That tracks. Usually the only time I ever feel the need to tunnel is if I am losing gens really fast and can't control the match any other way, I have to get someone out NOW, or you really do just irritate me that much (and in that case, it's time for me to get off the game now…) - I don't ever tunnel from the word go. It's just ineffective and pointless on the Killers I use. More often I would say I don't feel like I need to tunnel, it just happens to occur that I accidentally do. 95% of the time accidental tunnels happen with me, it's either because you were all I could find when I checked a spot, you were in the wrong spot at the wrong time, or because "I see Surv I chase Surv" and it's adrenaline for the next chase - not toxicity - speaking.
I play the same.
Sadly, we are not the majoority from what ive read here over the past years and what i experienced as a survivor for a long time. Many people just tunnel because its simple and effective. I would love to be proven wrong.
I'm simply saying tunneling can happen at any meta which argues against the OP since it claims tunneling skyrockets due to gen regress nerfs but tunneling HAS skyrocketed before with different meta and changes so the premise of this thread is pointless.
If nobody said tunneling doesn't happen when gen defense is strong, then my point still stands.