Don't expect the upcoming anti-camping mechanic to actually do anything
I have played 6 games today, and in every single game the killer proxy camped and forced trades. The new killer anti-camping mechanic would have done nothing in every single one of these situations.
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It doesn't need to singlehandedly solve all problems for it to still "do something".
Camping is a part of the game, as 'unfair' as it can be it's a valid tactic, the problem has always been that it's more rewarding than it should be. The killer should be giving up more than they are to employ this playstyle.
This will make it more punishing to camp. Either the killer facecamps, giving up pressure and allowing other survivors to focus on gens, and extending how long it takes to camp that person out. Or it forces the killer to proxy camp, allowing more openings for rescue attempts.
Everything is easy when you are a streamer with 10000 hours in the game and your average opponent has ten times less.
it's just an example, you can do it and see for yourself, it works against vast majority of opponents
I said without corrupt and deadlock or other heavy slowdown.
Bro if you run that combo with 90 percent of the killer roster you're leaving with one or two kills at least if your half decent. That being said face camping only works for the killer against people who don't know how to handle face camping, if a killer face camps you can get 3 separate gens around 50-70 percent done before the the first hook state is up, meaning good survivors will always punish face camping yeah 1 team mate may die but everyone else leaves and the killer loses. Also with bubba most are doing it because they can not because it's beneficial to winning as someone stated earlier.
Proxy camping not face camping builds pressure, for instance if there's a gen that MFT resil Gabe and haddie have at 80% and I down one of them and hook them near the gen it's ideal to stay close to the area and would be crazy to just rush to the other side of map to find Claude hiding in a bush or mikela booning because I don't want to be called a camper. I could chase the Haddie ideally but she's now no where to be found. So instead of aimlessly walking around I know now what person they have to unhook and what gen they want. Smart teams will coordinate a rescue by healing Haddie and safely unhooking healthy, since I can't grab off hook it's not even a trade. On a bad team Haddie will tap the gen and hide behind a rock during my wipe animation and me carrying Gabe to the hook and then as I walk not even 10m she'll unhook unhealthy and then Gabe will use his BT to body block and now the two of them are in shambles and I'm called a tunneler and camper.
Camping does in fact build pressure in certain situations and due to the pip system is sometimes necessary not to depip against a gen goblin team that knocks 2-3 gens out before your first down. Face camping is not beneficial is only done mostly out of spite and sheer just because I can as reinami stated . Lastly let's not forget that most of the player base isnt otz, hens, jrm , dead, or any other content creator level of play, let's be honest the majority is pretty average at best, thus you can't use a 10k hour survivor or killer main to justify a game mechanic that 90% of the player base can't utilise properly. Something needs to be done but it needs to carefully thought out and not abusable by either side. There needs to be a balance and way for the killer to keep pressure for hooking people and not proxy camping, if not people will never hook and just slug and bleed out.
Rant done lol gl in the fog today guys.
Fine, what about 10 seconds of I-Frames instead of endurance if you unhook yourself when the bar is filled? Literally anything can be exploited by a SWF. We need to learn to stop giving a damn about SWFs. They're a necessary evil to playing with friends and we can't really change that.
BHVR implementing a mechanic that does nothing to achieve what they want it to? No. I simply won't believe it.
Increase hook stage to 90 sec and killers wouldn’t find this strat valid at all.
How about we balance the game with hooks and chases instead of kills. That would make the game more fun for everyone.
increase hook stages to 90 seconds and survivors will rightfully greed the hell out of gens and instead go for last second saves. All that would do is dissolve the pressure hooking a survivor creates. Youd be better suited having the timer freeze/slow if the killer is within a close proximity with no other survivors present.
That is the whole point. Proxy camping hook shouldn’t be meta.
Why shouldn't it?
Killers have every right to defend hooks and unhooking a survivor isn't something meant to be a free thing survivors can do. If unhooks were meant to free, then survivors would just respawn some time later after being hooked.
Some of you guys really need to play killer, because it's very clear you only care about the game from the perspective of the survivor.
You must want people to slug more, because that defeats the point of any pressure having someone on a hook provides.
You could nearly do whole gens while 1 person gets chased before needing to even go for a save. Only works if chase times are abysmally short.
Or they could switch dead lock to some aura perk and play the actual game.
But slugging is not as effective as proxy camping because skill is needed for fast enough downs.
Because I don't think the game can tell you "You win!!!" enough to make four survivors running out the gate feel more like a win than no survivors running out the gate.
That's because the current win condition is to kill them. But if the game was about hooks instead of kills it would be much different.
Guys, I have been around here less than a month total and even I worked out Biscuits is an obvious troll, stop taking the bait. They could delete killers from the game entirely and they'd still complain that gens took too long or some other dumb thing.
Then the escaping should be removed together with killing, and what's left of the game at this point
On the shared hook states: s a survivor main, this overall feels like a massive survivor buff.
I guess it comes down to how you rebalance the chase ratios, but I think that is dangerous. If chases were noticeably quicker than they are now, I don't think they'd actually be any fun.
On the idea of all teleporting survivors to different hooks: I think the main reason BHVR wouldn't do this is that it would seem 'silly' and break the theme. Also worry that killers could intentionally abuse this, 99 the hook teleport meter, wait until the survivors are on their way, and then teleport the survivor out.
It's the fault of the team that they didn't handle the situation well enough.Therein lies the core of the problem. Any game element that needs a 'team' is going to favor SWFs far over soloq. That's one of the key complaints against killers camping around hooks: SWFs can deal with it easily and soloq can be destroyed by it (not as much as they used to though because of the HUD).
The problem is this is a pvp game. It would be nice if there was a win condition that allowed everyone to win, where the killer can score all their hooks and the survivors can escape, but pvp games aren't like that.
Someone has to lose in order for someone else to win, and unfortunately most people can't accept losing.
An 'everyone wins' scenario would mean every would gain positive MMR. Everyone would only climb, and MMR would be meaningless. Or any system that replaces MMR for that matter.
Technically this does exist. The killer can deign to accept 8 hooks as a win and let survivors go, and take the MMR hit in exchange. That's completely fair. The killer can still typically score a comparable amount of BP this way too. So this already exists, it just can't be legitimised and recognised any more by the system without undermining it entirely.
Yes, but survivor is a team game. If we balance around every survivor being super strong in their own, killer gets destroyed.
If we balance around swf, killer gets also destroyed because : swf is extremely strong.
It's an asymmetrical pvp, 'team' is a fundamental part of playing survivor.
That doesn't mean solo survivors can't cooperate. Part of doing well as survivor is having the game sense to play your part for the good of the team. I've had solo survivor games that were more highly coordinated than most of my SWF games because everyone put their head in the game and made the plays necessary to help each other out. It's not just SWF that can provide this, experience as a solo survivor can too.
Yes there are certain plays that only SWF can do, like identifying and tracking a stealth killer. But solo can make up for this in other ways, providing everyone goes into the game with the mindset of a team player.
Yes there are certain plays that only SWF can do, like identifying and tracking a stealth killer. But solo can make up for this in other ways, providing everyone goes into the game with the mindset of a team player.But we're not talking about a stealth killer or even high level SWFs. We're talking about camping. Against the most inexperienced SWF in the world they can communicate 'the killer is standing over behind the tree, stay on gens'. On the other hand, a soloq runs right into it unless you happen to speak the same flailing arms code as the person on the hook (and assuming hook stage 1).
Part of doing well as survivor is having the game sense to play your part for the good of the team.Again this is totally different. With the survivor HUD, I can see who is on gen, who's on death hook, etc. I can play my part without voice coms. Sure, it would be easier if I could tell someone I'll take a hit from them and where to run, but I can still manage it without comms.
Basically: soloq can do the same things SWF can in those situations, though SWFs make it far more efficient.
Camping is not the same: its the easiest communication in the world as a SWF, difficult, if not impossible, as a soloq.
People say that and then you ask them if they run Kindred every game and they say "no". Weird.
The actual fun part of the game? The chase. Or do you think holding m1 on a generator for 90 seconds, or facecamping and hard tunneling as a killer is the fun part?
Again, you are still thinking of escaping as a "win", the survivors would lose if the killer won under this system by definition, even if they escape.
Where is the satisfaction in that system, for any of the players?
Killer makes the winning score, survivors have the lowest score and therefore lose, but survivors escape and the killer doesn't kill anyone? What's the point? What game is this?
Maybe this could be an alternative game mode for custom matches or something. But it's not DBD at it's core.
Sounds like you'd be better off playing Gran Turismo if you just want to run around a pallet 50 times until you achieve the highest score.
When matchmaking was based on ranks, pips could effectively be considered a win metric: And since they required a wide range of interaction types from both sides, it was possible to lose and still pip. I personally always took any game where i pipped, regardless of survival or number of kills, as a win. It meant I played well and did more than just a single facet of my job.
...granted, emblem ratings on killers have always been a bit wonky, with some having garbage gains in certain emblems (likie plague) while others seemed to sneeze into iridescents (like legion.) After we switched over to hockey scoring the pip system became less of a win/lose metric since grades are basically just a monthly BP bonus now.
I guess my point is that its still possible to separate the win/lose mentality from the finality of the outcome, and we used to have a system that did just that in its own flawed way. Hell some people still think they win when they get hatch escapes, even though the game classes it a draw.
We still have emblems, they still exist. They haven't gone anywhere.
The fact that they don't affect matchmaking is neither here nor there, you shouldn't be regarding an increase in MMR as a win anyway, because it's not, it's just another step towards being matched with cheaters and comp squads.
And even without emblems, you still have BP as a score mechanism as well. Most players still play for BP primarily, that's why everyone runs BP offerings.
None of this disregards the fact that the main goal of the killer is to eliminate survivors.
The fact they no longer affect matchmaking makes the difference though, which is why they lost their appeal as a win condition. When it was based on pips, you needed to play more fair and less efficient on either side in order to pip, even though the ratings felt a bit too lenient at times (should have been a much wider berth between safety pips and 1/2)
the quality of matchmaking is a completely different story, but my point was again that people were able to make a secondary personal win/lose metric that was removed from kills and escapes.
What's the satisfaction of playing a racing game where you get 1st place, but everyone else still crosses the finish line? Same concept. Or an FPS like CS:GO and one team wins more rounds than the other even though both teams are "alive". Or a fighting game when time runs out? Or a MOBA when you destroy the enemies base while they are still alive? Or an RTS where you destroy the enemies base without fighting their army?
Killing isn't the only thing in video games that amounts to a win.
I think that it's not up yo you to define the "fun" part and dismiss everything else. This game has more fun parts than just the chase.
I don't think their purpose was to remove camping, it was to remove camping for low level killers who doesn't know any better but can still steam roll low level survivors with braindead strategies like facecamping.
They wanted to make the game a bit more bearable for low level survivors (usually solo) and not deny the power of camping from good killers.
And in many of those sorts of games, people frequently prefer to ignore the objective and just deathmatch. Now, you're trying to convince people who've won by killing for years that actually killing doesn't matter and it's just the hooks? To me, this feels like making hockey games won by shots on the goal, not actual goals, and hoping people just play along.
Its not just a mindset change, you actually reward it more and make the gameplay around that. It even fits with the lore better than killing does. The whole point of the entity is to feed on hope, not outright killing everyone.
Heck I have more fun hiding and doing gens than running from the killer
Treating the trial like a stealth mission is feels right to me lol
How does getting chased provide hope?
Doing gens and hiding making sure the killer doesn't find you provides a lot more hope than running the killer
I’ll echo what’s already been said in this discussion; it’s not an “anti-camp” mechanic, more of an anti face-camp mechanic.
Proxy camping/defending a hook when survivors are swarming it is a perfectly viable and respectful play style.
The purpose of this mechanic is to dissuade a Bubba from mindlessly facecamping you to death in the basement or when killers stare right at you and hit you in hook because you looped them too long or got some flashlight saves.
I don't think this will deter Bubba face-campers. They'll just stand more far.
This change is to punish newbie/bad killers who have to rely on face-camping and still win games although it's a very low skill strategy as well as highly intuitive (even if the killer had played only like 5 hours many of them have the tendency to camp even if it's not someone that is taught by the game).
On the other hand countering camping as well as saving your teammate is not something intuitive for survivors. They don't know they should be pumping out gens and newbie survivors are extremely scared of killer. Even when they killer is not a one shot killer they don't know that facecamping can be dealt with by having two survivors rescue, one to rescue and the other to body block.
That's how I understand face-camping. On top of that they don't want the game to be uninteractive, and camping kinda makes the game uninteractive for the killer and the hooked survivors. They want the meta to be about interaction and chases and excitement, especially after coming out from such a boring 3-4 gen regression meta when Eruption was king. it's also why screaming and aura reading have been getting added, to deny uninteractive stealth plays from survivors and Spinechill (which was a free perk that was used by new players primarily who were too scared of the killer) got gutted without a compansatory re-work or something.
Hook camping against a solo queue team has always been effective. Which is a shame, as it promotes the most unhealthy playstyle for the game. Solo queue teams do not have the perks, toolboxes or coordination necessary to gen rush. It feels almost like gaslighting when killers say "just gen rush". As though it's the easiest thing to do. What's the average player going to do with their brown toolbox that has no add-ons?
Why do so many killers just grab one person and face camp them at 5 gens? Because it works. Because killers know that survivors are really altruistic even in solo queue. Just camp one person, the other survivors will feel bad for them and try and help. It works almost every time.
I don't think anyone is complaining about camping in every scenario. The majority of the frustration comes from killers just doing it to the first person they find. You can't just rush the last couple of gens, it completely ruins the entire match.
Nobody wants to play hostage simulator. If that was every match, would this game die? Yes. Nobody would play it and the game would be dead. In solo queue, this game is only fun when the killer decides you can have any fun. If they want to make the match miserable for everyone involved, they can. The worst part it doesn't even require technical skill. Any killer with over 5 hours playtime and a bad attitude can do it.
Well if u want hook trades took away then there will have to be some serious changes to maps and gen times.
I actually did that with Blight , because I read all the threads here and both felt bad and thought ######### not? It won't hurt.
In 2 days I was facing completely ******** potatoes.
It was so very bad, they almost jumped on the hook, I struggled to get them out the door some matches.