"Xeno's M2 is impossible to react to!"
Here's for all those that would rather complain than learn how to play against the killer: a clip of me DHing ON REACTION to Xeno's tail attack: https://streamable.com/r2mpti , and still getting hit OVER HALFWAY through my 0.5s Endurance. This is done on 70ms ping on my end (relatively high for me). Keep in mind also, I reacted to Xeno using his tail while also trying to look in front of me, and had less than half a second to react to it when I turned back around.
As you can see, it is not only possible to react to Xeno's tail attack, it actually has quite an obvious visual cue. When you watch the clip frame by frame, you see Xeno's whole body jerk as in the screenshot:
...a tail attack is coming, you can safely swerve or crouch or DH or whatever you need to do to survive.
Now please, cut it with the Xeno whining threads. They're getting really old. Let's hurry up and nerf MFT.
EDIT: I actually went a step further and broke the video down frame by frame. At exactly frame 228 is the screenshot. At frame 270 is when the Endurance status effect disappears (with Deep Wound starting a frame earlier). This gives us a 41-42 frame window (recorded at 60 FPS) during which to react, or about ~0.7 seconds from animation to hit.
Comments
Lol, RIGHT, you move at full speed during the .2 windup, NOT at 6.9 meters per second. Which is way faster. So the math is still correct. And that is exactly my point, you can lunge through obstacles. Like pallets and windows, and during those you are animation locked anyway, so again, the point is that you can't dodge it anyway.
You can also "Threaten a hit" in stun attempts with m1, as long as you don't lunge, your lingering hitbox will hit them even if they pallet stun you. The point is, the tail is basically a glorified m1, that can go over pallets and windows, where you are animation locked anyway. So complaining about it "not being reactable" is pointless, because if you can be hit by the tail, you are also m1able (at least you will be .6 seconds later, barely even perceivable), and you can't "dodge an m1" unless the autoaim decides to screw the killer over for some reason.
I'd argue that the turrets shouldn't exist TBH, because the tail attack isn't powerful to warrant it. If anything, the killer should always have their tail attack, and the turrets should prevent going into tunnels. Because the tunnels are what make the killer strong, not the tail.
Because all of these killers need to charge their powers to use. And while they are charging power, they are losing speed. And all of them have very clear animations about they are gonna use m2 attack.
Xeno's power is always ready to use, he is chasing with 4.6. So he is not losing speed like other killers for charge the power. He can use his power anytime he want, he does not need to hold it like other killers. And you can't tell if he is going to m1 you or m2, he does not give you clear information.
Never fear Scott Jund has just found a solution;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUnmq7z6ZvYBut you can disable Xenomorphs power. This is not possible with the other killers.
You must be responding to something or someone else because asking for counterplay to exist is not asking to be overpowered.
I'm not saying you should win because you have bad teammates, I'm saying you should have a chance. If I play a team deathmatch shooter and my teammate feeds the enemy 25 of the 50 kills to win, I can still not die and kill the opponents faster to reach 50 first. The chance currently doesn't (feel like it) exist(s) for Xeno.
You are ignoring the point on the first paragraph. You can only get hit if they were too close to begin with for M1. Not the case for Xeno M2.
M1 threatening a hit is an even chance of Killer and Survivor. If Surv greeds, Killer wins on disrespect, loses on respect. If Surv drops, Killer loses on disrespect, wins on respect. Xeno tail changes the formula to allow for a win on respect in both scenarios. If they greed then you simply respect, then get the M2 during the rotation if the M1 lunge is too far.
I'd be fine with turrets not existing back at Xeno's PTB values and TR while the Xeno is underground. But the power is too oppressive to not have a counter, and currently there is no counter other than not playing/going next. That is poor design. It shouldn't be that way.
This is all assuming you aren't just an elaborate troll. It seems very likely since you consider a Killer having counterplay to make Survivor OP.
that's impressive. i will try that out in my next game against the xeno
where does anyone say it should be reactable?
Just because it isn't reactable doesn't mean I want it to be, I just want that hitbox to be fixed the the recovery times to be fixed.
If Nurse & Blight are considered fine, then Xeno is perfectly balanced.
Literally that is the topic of this thread.
The topic of the thread is it being reactable or not (which its not)
No one is saying it should or it shouldnt be
tail attack ignore pallet and window, lunge does not. Respect the 1v1 or people with more than 3 seconds of survivor xp will not just play survivor.
Correct, but if it goes through pallet and window, what are you doing? Vaulting, so you are stuck in an animation, so you ain't dodging it anyway. And, if it is about the "bait the window vault" then making it reactable doesn't change that, because that isn't about reactions, it is about predictions.
but youre playing on console, it's like a whole different thing playing killer on controller. even oni without the flick can be looped against the avrage controller player and thats a huge nerf on a killer that is supposed to antiloop in his power spike. also you decided to m2 when it was a free m1 hit, trying to aim at a survivor in an open space where they can take any direction is imho harder than playing the loop and getting a much safer hit because the survivor can only turn backward or continue in the same direction. you have a higher chance of dodging any ranged attack in an open space compared to a loop. if this wasnt the case pyramid head would be S tier.
Xeno can reaction punish fast vaults
against good xeno at 0:40 you were already dead. you can't "crouch tech" him like Nemesis. That was simply Xeno missing attack, not you dodging it
The irony of a Killer telling Survivors to use DH, the most complained about thing in DBD history, to dodge a Killer Power is honestly hilarious.
Jesus. I don't have the Alien DLC and don't plan on getting it anytime soon (not giving BHVR any money with the current state of the game), so my understanding of the tail drag was that it was like Nemesis' tentacle drag: possible but limited, and it took a lot of practice to build up the skill to do it and land a hit. In this shot the Alien was able to drag an entire half way around themselves while the tail was out! That's insane! No wonder it's so easy to get hit by it, particularly when dragging it through an object (wall near a window, junk near a pallet, etc.). That needs to get cut down to at most 1/5 of the circle, and fast.
I can throw a ball and a couch at you with the same speed.
you can react and duck down your head to both. The ball will fly over you, but not with the couch.
Pressing E and A/D requires a single finger, only with E you can be anywhere within or without hitbox. A/D requires you to be out of the hitbox.
Its interesting for you to compare E with A/D
The active hitbox has already stopped by the time Alien can turn his head.
Is Xeno's tail supposed to be the couch here? Because Xeno's tail has one of the skinniest hitboxes for an attack in the game.
The important part for Nemmy is the "if he's in T3" --- which takes time to get to and if you start facing survivors who know you need T3 to be a viable killer, they do pretty much everything in their power to delay your T3. If yurvivors know how to, it is very easy to keep Nemo in T1 for the majority of the match.
Between servers, ping and human ability the big question is "should certain attacks be react-able?" I say it makes more sense / it is more consistent to say the default state is non-reactable. The issue comes into play when "reaction" is pretty much the only card you have to play. (Which, as outlined above, is what sets Xeno apart from Nemo; for Nemo the way more important card to play is to not let him get to T3 or at least delay it for as long as possible.)
All that being said; I still reserve final judgement for when they fix the slowdown situation and turret placement (there are just so many tiles where you simply can't place a turret in a viable location). If those two points get addressed Xeno may very well be very much alright (still on the more frustrating side due to an extremely limited set of cards to play against it but bearable).
Yes, and A/D dodge leaves you the hitbox like a couch.
DH doesnt
And just the same, Xeno can be hard countered with good macro gameplay. It requires getting off gens; which most players are allergic to nowadays, but if you're constantly setting up webs of turrets and running him into them, he has to continuously drop chase or commit as the tallest M1 killer in the game.
What video are you talking about?
You realise the hitbox doesn't match the animation right?
We have now entered the "look at the shards!" phase of discussion.
Its hard-to-reactable at best, but once lag comes into the picture you cant really react and accelerate enough to properly dodge. The best you can do is wiggle A/D run and make a hard read on when he goes to attack to commit to a side. The point is to not let him get into that position to begin with, like preventing a chainsaw killer from backrevving.
the xeno is extremely strong once he gets within range and has his power ready, but its up to the survivor to keep him either out of his power or out of range to make that attack. Once close enough, it's the killer's hit to land/miss. I'm sure one any bugginess from the miss slow not applying properly gets fixed it'll feel less oppressive.
Most players are 'allergic' to it because the main component to team-wide strategy, communication, is lacking in the standard gameplay experience of survivor, being solo queue. The best thing you can do in this case is rush out gens before the killer kills everyone. It's a sound approach that works.
Nemesis doesn't need macro-gameplay to be defeated. The way every team member plays the 1 v 1 is what matters. Playing safe and pre-dropping to keep him in T1 is the BEST way to hurt that killer. No macro needed. Only hoping your teammates know this, and most don't, but that's just solo queue for you.
Xenomorph has no such limitations. It will wreck you in 1 v 1 and can break the turrets before it is stunned out of power. Especially with its best addons. You just hope and pray your teammates set up turrets halfway decently to gain a few seconds on the killer when it breaks the turrets.
In all fairness, there's no way for anyone to know if you reacted to something or you made a read. Both could look exactly the same.
This might be the only team based game I've played, where you need to work together with your teammates, but you can't communicate unless you go outside the game to do it. We get stuck doing the teabag version of morse code and hoping our teammates are over 100 years old so they can decipher it.
my friend, I don't know how often or on which maps you played against Xeno but what you say about turrets is simply not actionable (except maybe in a well coordinated group of people that have memorised viable placements for all maps and tiles - if you think that's an adequate minimal skill requirement then agree to disagree, I guess). If it requires all players to regularly spend 1min+ to traverse the map, get a turret, get it to a viable area and then find a spot where they can actually put it down and where it has a meaningful effect, the way to counter the killer is to actively sabotage the match -- which should not be intended design.
I don't disagree, they should have voice chat. But the point still stands that it IS a team based game, for survivors. If they aren't working together well, they SHOULD lose, or the killer may as well be a bot at that point.
Man y'all want him to get the Freddy treatment so bad
A lot of players won't or can't consider mechanics beyond the 1v1 because the focus is inherently on self performance not team performance and the BP's and pips are kind of awarded that way too, so it exacerbates the inherent player self focus issue.
DBD is both a team game and solo game for survivor and BP's pips should be partitioned accordingly to self contribution and team overall performance.
Xeno is fine, people just need to spend some time playing it and playing against it rather than just screaming for nerfs in the first weeks of release.
i really don't think she is op, but you cannot do much against her. it's like a better huntress who is holding her hatchet all the time. dodging is as hard, if not harder than that. but there are turrets and the range is relatively short so this is why i don't think she's op.
I agree. That's how team based games work. Honestly, if BHVR fixed the terrible matchmaking, solo queue would be infinitely better. You can still coordinate pretty well without VC if you have solid teammates. I definitely don't want to use VC though. I made it so I couldn't hear players not on my friend's list back in the 360 era and haven't changed it since. I have zero regrets.
Lmao yes. The only way to avoid his lose/lose situation.
aint no way you're using this as an example
you know that they can drag the tail hitbox right? the only reason why many xenos are missing their m2 attacks are mostly because they are learning how it works or they dont bother to do it to secure a hit which is something that you see pretty often on decent xeno mains , and is just miserable because even if you dodge the tails , doesnt matter 3 seconds later he is once again ready to do it again because you gain almost no distance when the xeno is the one doing a bad read and missing over and over while gaining bloodlust.
I find it easier to bait them through flame and temporarily remove the tail then attempting to react. Just seems more reliable then sit second reactions.
Pretty sure Xeno loses all Bloodlust any time he uses tail. And dragging tail won't make up for a critical miss or hitting a collision.
Even if you she did it wont matter
Only on PC can you dodge on reaction. Console nurse vs PC survivor shows this quite well. I am sure it works as well against xeno.
I am on PC and have a reaction time of roughly 180ms. I can assure you, you can't dodge on reaction
Also what do you mean by "Console nurse vs PC survivor shows this quite well." ????