Knightlight, one of the best DBD players in the world, says that MFT is op and needs a nerf
Knightlight, who is one of the best DBD players and arguably the strongest survivor player in the world, says that if you defend the perk Made for This, you have no skill and are bad at the game.
To all survivor mains who say that only "unskilled baby killers" complain about this perk.
https://twitter.com/KnightLight1337/status/1690384181199589377Discuss.
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Can we please stop taking others opinions for gospel and have our own opinions?
I'm so sick of this...
First it's otz. Now it's knightlight.
We can all have our own opinions about the Perk.
What we need are facts not some take from a content creator and "comp" player.
He didn't even give reasons, did he?
The best killer...
Im sorry but that makes me laugh...
How can anybody say that. He's the best at what? M1 killer? Blight? Nurse?
How can anybody say that they are better than all the other players that play this game on a regular basis.
We don't know about the performance of all players in the world. How can we just say that this player is the best or second best. Makes no sense to me. You can say that about the players that publicly play this game, but you sort out all the players that play dbd without making videos or participating in "competetive" cettings.
Is knightlight good? Yes.
Is he therfore the best or second best player in the world? There is no way we can say that.
I see both of you ignored the part where I said "You want to troll post ("Discuss."), you get a troll answer.", indicating this was clearly meant to be a grain of truth said in an inflammatory nature. But I'll bite to these responses.
My view is Skill + Tools = Results. If you bring skill, like mindgaming, or macro gameplay knowledge such as when to drop chase, you get better results. Tools, such as a bike, can also yield better results. Another way to look at this is Tools can be knowing what to do, and Skill can be knowing when to do it. In this case, once you learn to ride the bike that is Blight/Nurse/Spirit, you have a high tools value. You wouldn't count someone using a Sabo toolbox with no add-ons on gens as a genrusher (the one that gives 10% speed per charge, compared to the normal 50%, or Engineers 100%.), because they don't know how to use their tools. You also wouldn't count someone 99'ing hook sabos (thinking it saves progress for later like it used to years ago), or using the flashlight to see in dark areas (because they think "what else would a flashlight be used for?"), because they aren't using the tools correctly. Once you learn to use the tools, it is in the tools value, and skill can be added on top of that. With a weaker kit, or lower Tools value, you need more Skill to raise your results. With a stronger kit, someone can win without utilizing skill. One final note is Results is compared to your opposition's Results equation, based on their Skill and Tools. If you have more 'Results' score than your opponents, you have a varying degree of a win. It may be a 1k, it may be a 3k+hatch, it may be a 4k at 5 gens, and each of those cases is roughly determined by comparing your 'Results' to your opponents.
There is a skill floor to ride a bike, but it is far lower than most people are willing to admit. Learning how to play Blight/Nurse/Spirit is more than their counterparts, but yield far more 'Tools' value than their counterparts. The skill floor here is where people tend to point to and claim "you need skill to play them", which while true, is misleading. Again, would you count a Survivor with a half empty medkit healing into hemorrhage without a teammate nearby to be riding their bike correctly? I wouldn't think so. I wouldn't include someone who doesn't know how to attack as Killer, or how to progress gens as Survivor, so why is this included in the discussion with those Killers? In this case, the 'skill-floor', is more accurately a 'knowledge-floor'. If they don't know, they can't play. Many Killers utilize the basic M1 framework, which is transferable knowledge. Each of these Killers might be able to utilize varying degrees of transferable knowledge, but mostly require actually learning their power for success. Again, is a Bubba who refuses to use M2 still Bubba, or is he simply 'man with hammer'.
So lets take an example. If a Wraith and a Blight are going against the same enemy Survivor team, and the Survivor team has 50 Skill Points and 50 Tools points, with 100 Results points altogether. The Blight may have a Tools value of 75, and the Wraith has a Tools value of 35. For the Wraith to win, he would need more than 65 Skill points to leverage the equation in his favor, but the Blight only needs more than 25 Skill points to do the same. If the Wraith brought 60 Skill Points, and the Blight brought 30, the Blight gets a 3k, and the Wraith gets a 1k, despite the Wraith being near twice as skilled. That is the normal realm of standard DBD matchmaking. Only when we deal with the extremes of comp DBD, do we ever reach 200 Skill Points on both sides, where the Killer needs to fully leverage the Tools value to be higher than the Survivors in order to win.
Results are what matter, but people tend to think 'Tools' count as 'Skill' when it is Blight, but not when it is the perk Hope. If that theoretical 50 pallet eating Pig got a 4k without camping or tunneling, they most certainly brought more 'Skill' than 'Tools', at least in comparison to their opposition. She might have pressured every gen while keeping the Survivors forced to run past headtrap boxes. She may have eaten the pallets, so that she could use it as a deadzone later. It also is strange to consider MfT giving a raw stat boost of .12m/s over the baseline counts as a crutch, but the Spirit 2.64m/s, Blight 4.6m/s, and Nurse 9.48m/s boosts over their respective baselines (albeit with differing degrees of limitations, but with more to gain [even only in utility] than lose by those limitations) apparently simply don't count. Also keep in mind this is all coming from the source of a player (Knightlight) who won 34/37 matches as an M1 Killer with no power, tunneling, camping, or excessive slugging. This player is clearly not near anyone's skill level in the normal matches found in DBD. That's why I say 'Skill' with a Killer can be found in far greater quantities when not using Killers with exorbitant 'Tools' values. If you basically can't lose (see Momo's Blight streak expressly utilizing tunneling), you can't tell how much 'Skill' you actually have.
Top Killers and strong perks are 'Tools' portions of the equation. A crutch is a tool, just as these are. If you fight as an unarmed blind monk and win, you did far better in terms of 'Skill' than the person who used a minigun or a rocket launcher. You may have raised your 'Skill' in using the minigun, but that doesn't change the fact you brought a minigun.
This is literally the logic of "is LeBron one of the top 3 basketball players atm? Well we don't know literally every single person that plays basketball rn so we can't say that."
Like come on this is disingenuous and you know it.
Remember guys: killing players fun = they want to remove my cheesy way to get easy victories
Starstruck nurse with double range was fun too... To play.
Remove the endurance
Make it make you exhausted while active
Give it a time limit of 30 seconds, refresh when healed or unhooked
And LET THE KILLER KNOW WHEN THEY HAVE IT.
Umm just want to call you out on one thing here. Pyramid head does not let you mori someone without hooking them xD A survivor needs to be died on hook and be tormented for PH to moir them :P
recognizing someone is skilled =/= taking everything they say as gospel
Like what? This post reads so hipster lol.
They should've mentioned tombstone Myers as well. I didn't even pay attention to them listing Pyramid Head lol. I just saw the Sadako and Rancor and my mind skipped away from the rest.
Tombstone Myers is a better example than any of the things they listed xD Tombstone Myers can straight up kill someone at the beginning of match if he feed enough. Meanwhile Sakaro moir takes a lot of time to build up and rancor is a endgame perk.
DBD didn't survive this long by appealing to the party game audience. TCM will be completely dead inside 3 months. DBD survived this long because its gameplay loop is unique, even amongst asym games, and both roles have moderately high skill requirements as well as moderately decent chances to win the game. Balance plays a huge part in this. I've stopped playing games before because the balance was skewered, as well as know people that stopped playing for similar reasons. Licenses bring people, gameplay loop keeps them.
Basically, DBD isn't gonna survive if devs listen to the Just Have Fun™ MFT apologists.
Rancor only activates in endgame. Sadako's mori is part of her power and requires set up, and PH has to inflict two hook states (whether through hooks or cages) to mori, as well as have you condemned.
I want my early game Rancor that I can use on anyone in the entire team, 4 times in a row, midrush with Vial+Crow. Also make Blight's power instadown even without iri tag. This is just fun for me.
KL is undoubtedly the best Nurse player in DBD. Saying "best killer" is disingenuous because different people main different killers. And teamwork is far more important than individual skill in DBD (not to say that anyone in ETR lacks either). He's a key player in the best DBD team currently, diminishing his skill with "but the other 3 are just carrying him!" is very reductive and dishonest.
Which 5 of Blight's addons? C33, Alch Ring, Vial. I count 3.
Speed shouldn't stack, imo.
Even if I agreed, that's still only 4 addons. And I don't. Why shouldn't speed stack?
This. The cognitive dissonance with the "DbD should be casual crowd" is wild. All the things people are generally complaining about are the non-competitive things or the casual elements. And then in the same breath they'll say DbD should be more casual. The DbD community has a unique brain rot. Its like players want all the benefits of a competitive experience but don't want to put in any of the effort.
Rat and Crow are separate addons.
How is posting my observations dishonest? Also Knightlight is a good Nurse yes, he can play any of the top tier killers at a very high level but the reason I put Zaka above him is because Zaka could play literally any killer and be a menace to a level I don't think Knightlight could like I've seen Zaka play Dredge and Ghost Face at a level I've never seen anyone else match which in comp you're kind of expected to play every killer at a high level so yes best killer player is something that's observable. As far as survivor goes I've just not been impressed with it when Knightlight goes into soloQ, it's a lot of complaining and a surprising amount of mistakes. Compare this to say Ayrun who seems like they know every tile perfectly and yes I definitely don't feel Knightlight's survivor gameplay could be called "the best" by any metric.
Not sure how spicy of a take this is going to be, But I could give less of a damn about what "Competitive" players think
For one, it doesn't take a Comp player to recognise what is and isn't overpowered, MFT's extremely strong, this is something that should be obvious just by reading the perk description and playing the game for a few hours, for two, Competitive players do not play the same game we do, they don't play in the wild-wests of regular matchmaking, they play in custom lobbies in organised cups and tournaments, Why should I care about the opinion of someone who doesn't play the same game I do?
And on another note, why should I care about Knightlight's opinion when he just says "X is bad" with zero follow-up? Like congrats mate, you stated one of the most obvious facts and used exactly none of your "Competitive Knowledge" to explain WHY MFT is a problem in the version of the game you do not play even though that would have taken you less then 30 seconds, I'm so moved /s
Survivor for solo queue and survivor for comp are different animals. Solo queue is more of a 1v1v1v1v1 and comp is a true 4v1. What works in one setting can be really bad in another setting and vice versa. Running a tile is 50% of survivor skill. I've seen some really good loopers end up sitting in comp because their macro sense is awful.
It's funny to see how people say the game should be balanced around high MMR and then there are tweets like this. Just seems like people want easier games than actual balance.
I agree, let's go back to 7-blink Nurse and old Eruption. These things were very fun for the killer, even if a little unbalanced.
I think Blight's addons are in a perfect state right now too. Alchemist Ring, Compound 33 and speed addons are very fun to use, who cares about balance or enjoyment for the other side.
Balancing around top players is not a good idea, because the vast majority of players aren't at that level and will never be there, which is why most balance changes are made for average players.
Yes, sure, just stick to the same logic when it comes to Nurse and Blight. Because average player is trash with them.
I think its the licences that have kept it alive so long actually.
Id love to see a reality where either it never got licences, or halloween was the only one. I doubt itd be alive today.
Just because someone is considered a top pro player doesn't mean we need to take their word as holy writ. You have to also remember the MMR and the games that these players are used to and how little of the actual playing community falls into said MMR. While you can definitely take some advice from comp player, you cannot just accept what they say simply because they say it
So many of you are taking serious offense to this. Yes, it's an OP perk. Yes, it should be nerfed. And if you claim that's not the case, you're just being defensive and irrational.
Y'all are going and claiming that some killers are the equivalent of MFT and/or worse than MFT . . . Not true at all. With the exception of broken Skull Merchant rn, you should be able to counter every killer. You may just need to educate yourself and/or get some more practice in.
Point is, stop being defensive and accept reality for what it is.
Closing this thread here; as this thread has gone off topic, as well as getting into bashing content creators, which is not allowed here on the Forums.