If chases are supposedly the most interactive element in the game….
![[Deleted User]](/images/default-avatar.svg){kind=avatar}
Then why is it so punishing as a killer (when you play 90% of the roster) to commit to a chase of around 20-30 seconds or heaven forbid slightly longer?
I’m trying a lot at the moment to limit my slowdown perks and go for info/chase builds because I do believe that is the most fun I can personally have when playing killer and I want to improve my chasing anyway. But in a lot of matches, I’m not getting much chance to do that. Yes, I know this is a skill issue hence why I want to get better at chasing and managing Gen pressure without relying on slowdown too much, especially passive perks like deadlock. And I want to point out here I’m not approaching this from a killer sided perspective- surely balancing for slightly longer chases would be more enjoyable for both sides?
Look, I understand that when playing killer you have to balance your macro and micro gameplay. But come on, there are so many killers on the roster who simply cannot down competent survivors quick enough to compete with efficient survivors on gens. Hit and run is not really a solid option anymore given the plethora of med kits and boons in every match. So if you don’t commit to a chase after getting that first hit in then you’re just wasting your time. And pre dropping pallets is too effective for how easy it is and given the abundance of pallets it doesn’t really matter on most maps to waste resources.
Yet many times on this forum you will see people complain about how boring anti loop killer design is, how chases are the most fun part of the game and the only way for either side to truly express their skill. Yet if these interactions take a slight bit of time then it’s basically ggez for the killer.
Similarly, tunnelling does indeed suck- but if you’re matched against a team that has two really good loopers and two bad ones then wasting your time on the good loopers (even if you actually want to challenge yourself) is basically a sure fire way to lose the match. This is boring and unsatisfying for both sides. Good loopers basically just end up sitting on gens all game as the killer ignores them and downing the bad loopers as a killer feels incredibly unsatisfying. Oh, you went down in ten seconds after wasting your speed boost from the first hit by crashing into a rock then dabbing right in front of my face in a dead zone, don’t I feel skilful.
Maybe I should just try and still practice chase but bring slowdown perks to compensate for my lack of skill but that’s exactly the habit I was trying to break lol. But I’m curious to see if this is just a me problem and if the good people of the forum have any advice for me or opinions on what I’ve said.
Maybe the trick is to just not care about the outcome of matches. But I’m only human.
Comments
I love being drawn into discussions I had nothing to do with!
Those Survivors certainly exist. Anyone who claims to get them every game is immediately extremely suspicious to me. MMR is anything but consistent.
"You are turning it into us versus them"
This is such a dumb statement every time I see it. It's a PVP game. It's literally "us versus them". That's the game.
And no, not all Survivors are entitled. Just the ones that think the end all, be all of the game is the Chase. Which you clearly also think is true by this post.
And yes, demanding I chase you, under your rules, is very much expecting me to be your personal puppet. Just like the previous poster in this thread that got hate from survivors for not chasing survivors that escape his Ghostface because they wanted to be chase and he didn't.
Your objective is NOT to be chased. Sorry to burst your reality bubble. Your objective is to do five gens and get out. The killer does not exist so you can show off your l337 l00p skillz. You can teabag me from behind that pallet and click that beamer till your fingers bleed for all I care. You don't dictate the flow of the game.
The whole "interactive" idea is a stupid survivor-built mindset. There is ZERO reward for a killer to do so. What do I get for "testing your skills" at an L wall when I can just hit the weak link in the team running in the open? This isn't Dragonball Z, Goku. I'm not looking for the strongest opponent to fight. That's idiocy.
Must have been someone else who said you can 12 hook any team if you're good. Sorry about that.
If any of them don't count as "flaws in design" (to be fair, considering styptics and Syringes are intended, despite being highly abusable by survivors who can bring four of them and combo them with CoH and other healing perks, something the game's balance doesn't count with, its use is arguably poorly designed, but not necessarily a flaw. However, the same argument can be said about camping and tunelling, unless you think the hook mechanic was designed for the killer to aways leave them be and go for someone else), they still count as "taking the easier path", which is the first way I actually referred them as, and one of the labels the person I answered to gave to camping anyway. My point stands.
And the same thing can be said about all things above. None of them are "fun" to face, yet they are quite common to see and rarely complained about. See, that's a clear double standard.
In no game you have to handicap yourself while playing. And actively avoiding to camp or tunel is that: handcapping yourself, playing the LEAST efficient way. That's how you're proposing the killer should play: go for 12 hooks and avoid being efficient as much as possible, and hope the survivors will do the same. Give me a break.
I wish the "everyone have fun" part was true. It isn't. With the amount of things survivors can bring, killer is often STRESSFUL. Going for victory as soon as possible actually reduces the stress: sure, it's not cool when another survivor get tunneled out of the game on the second gen, but for the killer, getting a kill this early means your game will be slower and you can play more calmly.
Getting more BP will never weight more than the gameplay itself. Not putting yourself in high MMR means "Lose the game now so you don't lose later".
And you can STILL face far stronger teams depending on the time of the day you play, even if your MMR is much lower. Let's not forget the MMR range for matchmaking is not so small, and the longer it takes to find a match, the bigger it gets.
And if you DO find one of those sweaty teams, often the only viable way will be to camp and tunnel, so there you go.
Can we stop pretending like 4-man bully squads that are constantly relaying the killer's location are the norm when they very clearly aren't?
And that IS a problem. The current camping and tunneling are a problem to this game but it is not because they exist. The problem comes that these two clearly unfun, unhealthy mechanics have little drawback, almost no consecuences for deciding to do them. The fact that these two are the most effective way to win for killers is horrendous for the game health.
I believe, and it is my opinion, that tunneling and camping should be done in a certain situation. It should be a decision, something that rewards the killer for doing it at the right moment but punish him for doing it recklessly. But look at the current dbd, what stops an X killer of tunneling the moment he sees a survivor? Nothing. There is no setback, no drawback to use these tactics. The so dreaded "second chance" perks and basekit BT barely help an unhooked survivor from being downed again and again.
How can killers like Bubba facecamping the first survivor to death be good for the game?
How can killers as strong as Nurse and Blight tunneling someone at 5 gens be good?
There should be an incentive for killers to spread hooks, and if that means nerfing gen progressing perks so be it. Camping and tunneling should have never been as effective as they currently are.
The problem is that camping and tunneling are 10 times more likely to happen than a killer facing a squad with 4 COH, 4 Medkits, 4 Syringes, 4 Styptics.
If killer would face squads like these in 70%-80% of their games, maybe i could agree. But that's not true.
Not all match has 2-3 Gens on first down, there are 1 or 0 also happens.
First down with 3 Gens requires alot of luck that chased survivor run into, talking about how they dont run into 3 Gens that being working on.
Either Survivors win or Killer win depends too much on how fast the first down. This should be fixed long ago, neither side should be punished hard from the first chase.
Everyone knows tunneling, camping, gen rushing are the true problems of this game. But Im sure Devs will never fix these because these are the main topic to ranting & discussing, which make the forum lives. No one makes topic telling "Im having fun".
Its players' part to acknowledge it no one entitled to escape & 4K, but everyone entitled to having fun.
As survivor, I never use DH DS. But if I see a killer tunnel a teammate hard, I will just stand under hook and go afk. They desperate to get kill and gain MMR, I give. There is no fun playing a match knowing I already lose, same to killers DC or go afk when losing.
As killer, I dont use Gen slow down but I use Plaything / Penti, being Trapper main I definitely need something to slow down but make the game fun for survivors (by hunting Hex) rather forcing them to sit on a Gen for 3 mins with Erupt & Call of Brine. If I cant 3-4K survivors from playing fair; I consider they're better than me. Drop MMR from 1-2K and play against an easier team to 3-4K. MMR loops itself and repeat.
I cant control killer plays fair to have fun, but I can playing as killer with my current mental, I dont get stress playing as killer. Toxic survivors gonna toxic no matter how I play, dirty or fair. I dont use it as a reason to bully the later team.
I always think survivors should bring at least a Brown medkit / toolbox because earning just 12K BP previous match is enough to get a Yellow item with double Yellow addon.
Now with BP earning easier along with cheaper item/addon. There is no reason survivors save their items/addon anymore. They can bring at least Purple item with double Purple addon for the same BP earned.
I dont think 4 Brown Medkit / Toolbox is a problem, 4 Ranger with Charges/Syringe/Styptic is. A match with exact killer & team will have different result just based on how invest survivors are. Survivors' items should be nerfed for sure, but it also come with something in return, and I have ideas for them, these are just most used 2 items.
The important part here is closing the gaps from investment.
Its 4 free Medkits (2 heals) -vs- 4 Medkits + 12 charges + Syringe (8 heals).
Not 0 item (0 heal) -vs- 4 Ranger + 16 charges + Syringe (16 heals)
You cant balance perks when the investment gap is this huge.
Genuinely if you are going against a wraith or another m1 killer who is camping/tunneling regardless of build, someone on the survivor side messed up or just isn't playing correctly. Generally while I think daniel is pretty killer sided, he is usually talking with low tier killers in mind. Like I get it, in solo queue you get bad teammates. But if you get a team who has any idea what they are doing regardless of being solo or not mid-lower tier killers will never win. It doesn't matter whether they have full gen kick build or whatever else, it shouldn't be allowed.
But majority of players in this game are not good and a large portion of games with solo queue have people not trying hard. If you claim people don't have to try to win then your point is irrelevant.
To reiterate 95% of survivor players are not good and the last 1% are actual juicers. This is the only pvp game I have ever seen where the players who are even decent for this game's standard are trash in any other online pvp game.
In league or OW or whatever, people in silver who are 0 and 7 and being completely negative in voice chat will still try to win, this is the only game that's not like that.
Lastly it is the devs job to fix something like tunneling and camping without gutting most killers vs teams that are actually efficient. Players always find the most efficient way to win in every multiplayer pvp game and the players always use them if they want to win. DH and IW being ran together every single game ever before 6.1.0. is a prime example of this.
I understand what you are saying well and I do agree. But you have to factor in builds. There is a large difference between me running 3 aura reading perks and 3 slowdowns on top of add-ons for blight. There is a little less difference for an individual survivor to run full meta but when an entire squad does their skill becomes less noticeable. I very very rarely run into more than 2 people even on comp teams that I think are actually great in chase. It's either a symptom of people thinking it's a causal game and trying to win (counter intuitive) or the fact that people don't try to improve their skill near as much as in other games. This is for both sides but I have been playing killer more again due to my survivor duo flipping schedules.
In my 11 months of maining blight I think I have probably run into 5 amazing survivors vs him. And don't hit me with the "but it's blight because I am not running op add-ons much and blight without them is the most skill expressive killer in the game for both sides BY FAR. I said this in a recent post but most players aren't good, good players are 5% and amazing players are 1% or less(only game I have played with a ratio this terrible), builds can take away whether you actually played well or not depending on the other side. If I am running iri-tag/green-speed with 2 slow down vs 4 med-kits and meta, that is a fair match if both sides are evenly skilled. If I am running yellow-speed and compound-21 with an aura reading build vs the same survivors I will lose unless they get cocky. There's just too much disparity in power level even for high skill killers players top killers and high skill survivor depending on either side's build. My build is based on survivor items at this point.
It is fine to want to win, my problem is that most survivors don’t acknowledge that by saying they want to have fun, they are often saying they want to win in the easiest way possible, hence the ridiculous Deathslinger and Hillbilly nerfs. Killers are guilty of this too, but I see it way more on the survivor side on this forum.