"Survivors don't deserve free escapes"
This is a phrase I've seen used around very frequently, initially used in terms of Decisive Strike, more recently in debates around Off The Record and basekit post-unhook Endurance, and as of Project W, Reassurance. The general argument is that, during endgame, certain perks should deacitvate which hamper the killer's efforts of killing the survivor. I will try to keep my own opinions around any perks discussed here out of the conversation- feel free to look at my comment history if you're curious.
My question is, though, why should the killer get "free kills"? Because, in essence, disabling all of the anti-camp, anti-tunnel, and anti-slug tools that Survivors possess will equate to "free kills", where the Survivor team has very little they can do in terms of assisting a hooked teammate, which becomes progressively more likely as a Trial continues due to resources being consumed. Naturally, good SWF players on comms are able to bodyblock for each other and try and get their teammates to safety, but even bad SWF players or just solo queue will struggle substantially more without, say, BT or Reassurance to help with camping. And quite frankly, if you still can't get a hook after 5 gens have popped, you really don't deserve one, so the edge case of the killer having nobody on the hook nor having them been hooked the entire trial doesn't really apply.
So, why is it always that Survivors don't deserve "free escapes" and yet end-game camping/tunneling is justified because it's how the killer is able to score some last kills? Why should Survivors lose access to their tools while killers gain a massive boost to theirs (due to a lack of map resources)?
I'm genuinely curious why the argument is used so much- in my honest opinion, there are other arguments that can be used in their place which, at least to me, sound substantially less balanced.
If this post feels like a ramble and/or makes very little sense, I do apologise- I've been sat on a coach for the past 24 hours and caught an illness that's turned my brain to mush. Writing in grammatically correct sentences is about all I can manage right now, because my brain unhelpfully supplies every third word in German instead of English.
Comments
It’s stupid how Rancor’s end game function works (punishes a player just for being the obsession and the team completing the gens), but NOED is a bad example. It only activates in the end game if one dull totem is still up. Unless you plan to let it activate earlier game, like those survivor perks can?
End game DS, OTR, and BT are 100% uncounterable from the killer’s side, if the survivor is anywhere near an exit gate. So they are free escape, because perk. As much as I hate the two killer perks you bring up, they can still be countered. Rancor less so, but the options are still there.
I think BT should be the only exception, because it requires another survivor to run it for the hooked survivor. That leaves it with a niche OTR can’t fulfill.
Noone is forced to do anything in this game, this hasn't changed in OVER SIX YEARS.
The notion of incentivizing players to not do something is made by those that have no interest in stopping the behavior in the first place.
They're complete idiots.
I don't like the concept of hex perks.
Exactly. There is a certain mindset that players will just do the easiest/most efficient tactics in order to secure a win, regardless if they actually need to. This isn't a survivor or killer thing either. There is definitely a subset of survivors that will race to mash gens even if it's boring and even if they're way better than the killer. There are killers that will tunnel/proxy/hard camp even if they're already better and don't need to.
These aren't all killers or all survivors, but it's a pretty decent chunk of the player base. So when killers say, they would stop tunneling/camping if the game was more balanced, it's pretty hilarious. There would still be plenty of games where people tunnel or camp. Just like there are now. Just like there will always be groups that slam gens regardless of gen times or killer nerfs.
I guess define what a free escape vs free kill means?
If a killer can get a hook during EGC, i totally understand why basekit buff BT feels like a free escape when another survivor hook bombs to save them without any hook save perks equipped. If the killer doesn't have an instadown ability, they both get out. All survivors now have a free 5th perk slow which is stronger than old BT.
The only free kill scenario which comes to mind is if a survivor afk. Even potato survivors require some time spent in chase to down than hook. NOED maybe you can argue is a free kill? but NOED still requires getting the kill and it only guarantees you the one hit down. However, NOED is dead since the update. I've only seen it once since the patch in my survivor games. And it was found immediately.
Finally a sane person killers have like 2 objects 1 extend the match as much as possible and 2 kill as many survivors you can
And when they can't extend anymore the only objective they have is kill as many survivors they can
No, if they're all equal it comes down to 16 perks vs 4 - your idea of "balanced" is more skewed than the Leaning Tower of Piza.
I've always thought "free escapes" is a silly argument. I can see the arguments for disabled OTR and DS in endgame, but it's not a free escape beyond that. If a killer is in a position where survivors can set up multiple body blocks in the endgame, that killer messed up a long time ago in that trial and hasn't played the hook well. Survivors can't cleanly unhook 2 for 1 without someone going down unless you've sat back and not hit anyone for whatever reason. And if it's a 3 for 1, then again, you messed up a really long time ago in that game. Take issue with the mistakes and less of an issue with not getting the 1k.
I was referring to when you stated that a better argument would be "A much better argument for the removal of endgame OTR/DS is "There is no feasible counter play to these perks in endgame" which is a better argument than survivors don't deserve free escapes, Especially since it was the main reason for the deactivation of DS in endgame nerf to begin with.
And OTR/DS is not basekit BT or Reassurance, is it?
What a nice apple and oranges comparison.
Perks that activate only after the last gen is popped or even only EGC: Noed, blood warden, no way out, remember me, terminus...
Perks that can be and are most often swiftly deactivated: Noed, devour hope, other hex perks...
Perks that help the whole game over and now only deactivate after the gate are OPENED not powered: The perks mentioned in this topic
lol nice try. The only perk that helped in end game that would be useful the entire game is BT. Killers have proven time after time they are more than willing and capable of tunneling through it.
Decisive was a ONE USE perk. You use it, you lose it. Same with Unbreakabill. Same with Deliverence. They are incredibly situation dependent, and would be used in the majority of cases long before end game. Then they're gone.
It's not apples and oranges. In fact, they are more similar than anything else.
Killers CHOOSE an endgame build, or to have endgame clutch perks. They use a perk slot and hope to get value out of it. Survivors chose perks like Decisive Strike, or UB, knowing it had a "one and you're done" usage, hoping to get value out of them. Knowing you might go through a few matches without using them at all (a wasted perk slot). But most of the time, we ran them because they were necessary due to camping/tunneling. As I stated in my post, Decisive was already used 90% of the time before end game anyways.
No perks should be deactivating entirely at end game at crunch time if you used a perk slot for them. If Killers can create an endgame clutch build, survivors should also have some tools to help themselves as well.
Except Decisive Strike and OTR both deactivates once the Exit Gates are powered which does NOT mean opened. It literally says so in the perk description. It's the exact same wording in the sentence as in Adrenaline's description, so its definitely when the last gen pops. Lmao. It took you 2 days of mental gymnastics for this disingenuous reply? I thought Burter boasted he was the fastest in the universe, not the slowest.