You Still Haven't Fixed The Grind - Open Letter to BHVR
Hi. This is an open letter to BHVR. We need to increase BP gains as in the new progression system,it's pretty painful to start out,compared to the old one and there are still a lot of issues with the progression system.
This thread combines many,many ideas brought to you by the community and yours truly. They're split up into short term and long-term changes. If you implement at least half of these changes,the new player experience with the grind will significantly improve.
NEWEST DEV UPDATE ADDRESSED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST.
THE IMPORTANT CHANGES THAT NEED TO COME SOON
These are the changes that the devs should really try to bring out sooner than later,if they care about the progression system,especially the new player experience.
- Increase most,if not all scoring events by 25%. The new caps are neat,but we don't get to them a lot of the time.
- Killer point scores are extremely inconsistent and about half of the killer roster has terrible Devious or Brutality gains. Some killers naturally have a lot less Hunter gains,such as Nurse,Blight & Wraith as they chase either indirectly or while cloaked. We need to bring them in line and buff those killers who don't gain BPs in certain categories because they use their power.
- Survivors when they get focused out of the game do not gain any BPs besides Boldness. This can be solved by uncapping select categories,but still capping the overall gains at 40K or giving the chased survivor 25% of other Survivors' BP gains.
- Most of the current BP offerings are quite literally not worth their Bloodweb prices. We need to remove all of the yellow and brown per-category offerings and bring the green ones to 150% bonus BPs.
- Sealed Envelopes & Hollow Shells should be removed and replaced with a new version of the Bound Envelope which is available to both Killers & Survivors. It will now bring a 33% increase to everyone's BP gains. It's rarity will be reduced to Uncommon.
- Incentivize the Fun Factor with a BP earning modifier. When survivors take more than 1 protection hits or get teammate saves or when a Killer hooks all 4 survivors before a survivor is dead,give them a 50% bonus applied on top of all their in-match BP gains + offering BP gains.
THE LONG-TERM CHANGES
The following changes are something BHVR should consider for a longer term development,they're not exactly required,but would be a lot of really good stuff for the game's progression and BP gains overall.
- Killer Meme addons should give you a flat 100% bonus to all your BPs earned post match.
- Give us an option to automatically go through as many bloodweb levels or a bloodweb level. Spending BPs post rank reset feels like a slog.
- An introduction of a Shrine Of Blood mechanic could be a neat idea. The Shrine of Blood could allow you to burn offerings and addons/items you dont care for a return of 50% of the orignal node cost. It would also allow you to purchase the addons you're looking for at double the cost. This could be integrated with the new Loadout System. Whenever you lack an offering or addon,you'll have the option to auto-complete your loadout,which will come at a higher,more hefty BP cost,but will be a good convenience for players with lots of BP.
- Speaking of the Shrines. The current Shrine gives you a miserably low amount of 150K BPs for 2000 Iri Shards. I believe this should be brought straight up to one million BPs. For investing a currency you earn through a lot of playtime (since you already got both the shards and those perks unlocked at T3) and a currency that can buy cosmetics and characters,you should get much,much more bloodpoints.
- Finally,I suggest an overhaul to the BP offerings as a concept. As they're a big part of the progression system,I think it's only fair we give them a more special role. BP Offerings will now a secondary offering slot on your Killer or Survivor's loadout,with the offerings shared across all Survivors and Killers. This will speed up the grind as you dont have to compromise between grind/game-changing offerings and not waste all the BP offerings on Killers/Survivors you dont play.
FINAL CHANGE TO CONSIDER - PERK TIERS
While I understand that you've already worked on a full blown Prestige Rework that's kind of tied to the tier aspect of the perks,I believe it's really silly to keep the perk tiers for much longer.
Here would be a few reasons why:
- This affects newer players a lot more. Their Tier 1 version of perks are often hilariously worse than their Tier 3 counterparts and can worsen their experience with a perk by a long margin.
- Perk Tiers limit your design opportunities. Myself and others while pondering about perk reworks and such have often found ourselves thinking "damn this would be a cool perk but I dont even know how make tiered versions of it". Removing the tiers would solve this issue.
- It will PERMANENTLY reduce the grind by 33% and make getting any new general perks or general perks in general on all of your characters much smoother.
I believe the changes outlined above will make the progression system feel better and incentivize more fun gameplay. The new BP offerings will also more often give Bonus BPs to everyone in the match. All the long-term changes will completely change the way the progression feels and allow people to focus a lot more on the gameplay of their matches.
If you disagree or have any suggestions,please tell me in the comments. I hope this thread spawns more discussion in the community and brings these (in my humble opinion) great changes to the game.
DEVELOPER UPDATE - AUGUST 23rd
So instead of addressing the BP gain issues BHVR now did a band-aid fix to lower the bloodweb node costs.
This is the laziest change you could have done and does not do much,at all for the new player experience. We need more BP gains,not an ever-so-slight reduction in BP spending.
This does not incentivize fun matches and the reasoning of "archives and dailies are better now" is weak,as they're a secondary to the game. Dailies can be for the role you dont play,same for archives. A lot of people simply don't do them. These changes also do not incentivize the fun factor or feel rewarding. Cheap and bad.
MATCHMAKING INCENTIVES NERF - AUGUST 30TH
As I write this,it's August 30th, Matchmaking Incentives have dropped and...they're now garbage. Instead of keeping the multiplicative nature they had up to the latest PTB they made them additive and they act like an Escape Cake at the best of times.
This re-ignites my immense concerns with the grind as incentives are worthless now.
Comments
I honestly hate the hollowed shell more than any of these tbh, like how can somrthing be higher rarity and be much worse as well as being in the same rarity as survivor pudding, which is one of the most useful offerings?
Are incentives actually going to work like that?
I really, really doubt it. Whenever we get a 2x Blood Hunt, they always say "Earn Double BP" but it never functions like that. It functions like a bonus invisible Bloody Party Streamers. Also, when the incentives were functioning you could see that they don't actually display as a multiplier on the main menu like "2x" or "1.5x" they displayed "+100%" which is exactly how you'd expect them to be notated if they function like bonus invisible Bloody Party Streamers.
Sorry to step on your dreams but those 500k games you were imagining won't be possible. A 5 flan game combined with a +100% incentive will make it possible to earn up to 292k in one game, but that's only if you manage to cap out at 40k.
Wait bp *PERKS*? as in plural?
Sorry to step on your doubts,that IS how they work and how they continue to work on the PTB,unlike the bloodhunt.
I do address this one in my post as well!
Wow. I doubt that's intended. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Do you really think after like months of fixing it they still didnt notice how it works? It's 100% intended and if they didn't mean for it they would re-use the Bloodrush code
WGLF & BBQ
damn this thread is kinda blowing up ngl despite even being in the feedback section
They're going to ignore this thread and hope it dies off, much like any thread a little too critical or inconvenient for them to address.
I mean probably they won't implement any of this,but hey,I had fun dreaming about a version of DBD that was a lot better.
I still don't get why we have a per-category cap on BPs nowadays. It was there when we had ranks based on it but this wasn't the case for 6 years.
I agree with the changes you suggested. These would absolutely improve the grind and overall progression for new players as well.
Another thing to help with the grind I believe is for the player to choose multiple challenges to be active at once. I know we are getting that quality of life improvement with having an active survivor AND killer challenge so we don't accidentally go into a game with the wrong challenge. But that doesn't help the grind at all for us. Having to do one challenge at a time significantly changes that player's playstyle and makes the grind longer for everyone. For example, if a survivor has the "do a total of 4 gens" challenge, brings gen perks, but is being chased for most of the game, its going to take longer for that player to complete it. With regards to player's playstyle, if someone is doing that challenge and another survivor is hooked, chances are they're not going to save that survivor. They'll complete their gen first before considering going for the unhook, even if the killer is preoccupied with another survivor. Having something like 3 active challenges for killer and survivor would encourage much better fluid playstyles and progress towards completing challenges.
I'd like to know what others think about this. Again, fantastic feedback with bloodwebs, offerings, and end game rewards suggestions. I hope the Devs listen.
any grind improvement, is a good idea. this game is way too grindy and this should be adressed in a DIRECT way, not in a "if you do this thing, eventually the grind will be less" way
new players struggle way more than old players and the new changes does not adress the first 100 hours of dbd grinding, if not more
Yeah,I wish you could do any of the normal challenges together and only have the master challenges locked down to only one being selected.
Yeah the BP gains have plumbeted and your initial grind has risen,so we 100% need to address all the issues.
This is BHVR. They are notoriously cheap with bloodpoints. They also do tons of things that are not intended and fail to notice things for years. Also, they appear to have forgotten how how to do things critical to DbD, like making maps that play well. That they also use +100% instead of 2x in the main menu is huge.
If this goes live like this I'll immediately head to the LFG forum to find others with flans, cakes and BPSes and farm the bejesus out of it until they nuke it.
Mark my words. If the incentive actually goes live actually acting as 2x multiplier it will at most last 3 weeks. They will see people bragging about getting 400k+ per game and they will gasp and say: "We can't have that!" They might even kill switch it again.
I doubt that once the BP incentive works they ll disable it. it is not a tool to reduce the grind, it is a tool to reduce queue times by giving BP.
I hope they actually do a grind reduction though by increasing BP gains, especially for new players, instead of just calling it a day after the BP incentives.
I dunno.
Yeah, waiting for this thread to get added to the game lmao.
I seriously love every single idea you put here. I really wish the devs would consider implementing what you suggested.
The idea of a blood point shop / and addon seems sensible to me.
What I personally see is buying addons in packs of 100/80 etc. depending on their rarity rather than going to a web that gives random and boring paths.
So addons and brown items per pack of 100 pieces for a value of 100,000 blood points.
And pink addons and objects, in packs of 20 for a value of 1,000,000 blood points, for example.
But the packs would be classified in order of power obliging the days to first take the brown, yellow, green packs etc... before being able to take the pink pack.
As BVHR does not want pink resources to be abused
These would always be in small quantities and long to acquire, but easy and safe for all players.
bhvr is still ignored? it is sad
thanks ;)
Idk,iri add-ons are often worse than all the other ones lol.
Yeah it would be really cool if they at least acknowledged exploring all of these changes.
Can anyone help me out with some stats on how gettting perks unlocked at the start post 6.1.0 compared to 6.0.0 is way more irritating for newer players who focus on getting them on single characters (or just survivor players who have a main lol)
I would crunch the numbers myself but my computer is dead.
yeah nope, it's like a 33% increase in BPs and considering that we gain BPs at 0.5x rate with no BBQ/WGLT that it's and immensely higher floor.
I'm curious how much the BP incentives will impact the grind if they do keep their multiplicative nature.
This is one of the largest feedback threads on the forums in the past few weeks,it would be really nice if BHVR acknowledge that they're still working on the grind issues.
It depends on the killers.
Still no BHVR response! What a surprise. Back to the "75% reduced grind" it is.
75% reduced grind,100% decreased gains
Trying to stay true to real life since an economic crisis is looming over all of us (at least in the EU). Maybe they just don't want those levels of inflation.
WE NEED TO DEINFLATE THE BLOODPOINT ECONOMY!
The developer update shared recently (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/kb/articles/348-developer-update-august-23-2022) is THE most band-aid solution I've ever seen and fails to address most of the issues outlined in this post. BHVR please reconsider.
August 23rd update addressed at the bottom of the post now. As previously stated,the issue is still not fixed.
I think reducing overall costs is a step in the right direction and the incentives will stack nicely on top of that but yeah, they need to speed up your overall BP gain in certain categories. in a full match I'm lucky if I hit 20k on survivor over half of the time.
It's neat but nowhere near a proper fix.
While your OP does contain many good ideas, this is BHVR. We knew they'd come up with a quick band-aid fix.
However, this is a very good band-aid!
It does indirectly address one thing in the OP:
Most of the current BP offerings are quite literally not worth their Bloodweb prices. We need to remove all of the yellow and brown per-category offerings and bring the green ones to 150% bonus BPs.
Sealed Envelopes & Hollow Shells should be removed and replaced with a new version of the Bound Envelope which is available to both Killers & Survivors. It will now bring a 33% increase to everyone's BP gains. It's rarity will be reduced to Uncommon.
With their new reduced prices, they're not as bad anymore. They might still not be "good" but these offerings are really just low value bloodweb filler anyways.
I think this price reduction actually does reduce the grind from what it was before 6.1.0. Still not the 50% they said but at least we can see a net reduction in the grind now. Plus it's very convenient now that ~1 mil BP will = 1 level of prestige.
they said 75%,not 50%.
I know this is a decent band-aid but I will continue to advocate for a better change to the progression system until they implement it.
Still with these changes... It's time for you to start a new thread. :)
nah this thread is staying
it's gonna get 70 pages with no bhvr messages just watch me
Upvotes go brr,damn.
But yeah,the changes BHVR has made still did not fix the progression whatsoever. We need progression to feel smooth and incentivize fun gameplay,not just be slightly cheaper.
I think it's probably fine with the changes. I think it should take around 1 - 1.2 million BP to prestige now, which is about the same amount that it took to previously unlock all of a character's teachables. Only now it doesn't just unlock their teachables, it now instantly unlocks the perk at level 1 on everyone else so thats less bloodwebs to max the perks on other characters and those bloodwebs will be cheaper too.
And if you're the unlock everything on everyone type, it's now a lot cheaper to get the character to prestige 3, like 1.2-2 million less BP.
I disagree. I'd like to see the new player experience to be better and not feel daunting to get the perks you need to play effectively. Plus I still think the amount of grind added with each update is unreasonable.
I think if you take the least efficient route to prestige it will now be about 1.1M, if you take the most efficient it should be between 800-900K.
Well, this update certainly won't be adding to the grind.
You should remember that the bloodweb is RNG and also will be more costly the higher the prestige level since more rare nodes will spawn.
Yeah,this update won't add to the grind,but I still advocate for all the changes mentioned in this discussion so we spend more time playing the game and not grinding for bloodpoints.
the lower prices are not a lazy change its actually good cuz it makes archives, dailies much better.
sure thing they need to increase Sacrifice category gains cuz its impossible to hit 10k rn. just improve ingame bp gains and its great.
It's a good change,but it is a band-aid.