The tunnel and camp changes are a joke. Five seconds is a nothing burger for those base mechanics, and the nerfs to DS is excessive. It would be one thing if it worked both times and couldn't be waited out. Even with the existing stun, the tunnel continues. With a reduction, it's now even easier to tunnel.
We've tested a whole bunch of durations for them leading up to this, and often times they felt too long to be in the base kit. 5 seconds may not sound like much, but it can be a game changer. As long as you can reach a pallet in that time, it accomplishes the same thing. Alternatively, another Survivor can use this time to get in position and take a hit for you.
5 seconds is not a lot. Hell, 15 isn’t a lot right now. If a killer wants to tunnel they will.
You also don’t realize that there are killers like Bubba, like Huntress that can easily cheese the 5 seconds and wait. You have no time to position yourself if all the killer needs to do is wait 5 seconds. Current BT is still giving people a better chance.
What we needed was something a long time lines of Pyramid Head’s cages.
I feel like people commenting that "you can't reach X in 5 seconds" are forgetting the Haste you also get. They should, in most cases, be enough to get you to loop or at least out of a dead zone.
If you want more endurance keep equiping borrowed time, 10-12 seconds basekit is too much, a free bodyblock for the unhooker for everyone without borrwed time, no thanks. Also the haste.
I feel like people commenting that "you can't reach X in 5 seconds" are forgetting the Haste you also get. They should, in most cases, be enough to get you to loop or at least out of a dead zone.
It's 7% haste not sprint burst. Over 5 seconds, it gets you an extra 1.4 meters....
Killers can count to 5 and still tunnel. Bubba will be even easier to camp and tunnel. Since you increased gen repair times, you buffed tunneling.
That's baseline. You can bring other fancy stuff (OTR is going to be...evil) to improve it.
I'd have preferred it if killers couldn't use their powers near hooked survivors or shortly after an unhook near that hook, but let's see how this shakes out. The Haste effect is also pretty nice, and if it's enough to avoid a followup sweep from Bubba that's more than sufficient.
Do people not remember that the DS stun used to be 3 seconds? It was bumped to 5s to accommodate Enduring reducing the duration. I'm honestly surprised it wasn't bumped back to 3 when enduring stopped affecting it.
That's baseline. You can bring other fancy stuff (OTR is going to be...evil) to improve it.
I'd have preferred it if killers couldn't use their powers near hooked survivors or shortly after an unhook near that hook, but let's see how this shakes out. The Haste effect is also pretty nice, and if it's enough to avoid a followup sweep from Bubba that's more than sufficient.
This. It seems it will also stack with BT, so if you run BT, the effects are going to be large. And getting immediately re-downed off the hook is no longer a thing. And that haste is not insignificant.
And with regard to DS - as a killer, I am much less likely to re-down a surv pre-endgame just to "get it out of the way" now that I know I don't have to worry about getting hit with it at the exit gates.
Actually no you don't, what you need is Off The Record.
And the 5s can't be waited out, because killers now won't know whether they need to wait 5s, 15s, or 80!s. Imagine waiting 20s only to still trigger Endurance, I'd definitely just give up the chase at that point, imagine if you spend 2 minutes tunneling someone off the hook with an unavoidable endurance AND a DS on top of that? What a waste of time, easier to go for the unhooker who isn't getting an automatic sprint boost.
It's painfully obviously most of you scrolled to BT/DS changes, had an aneurysm and rushed straight back hear to Karen.
Because deterrents to camping/tunneling need to be made to the BASE game. Oh boy, now we simply swap BT for OtR, what a meta gamechanger! Not to mention the complete gutting of DS.
Yeah Peanits go and tell to the nurse player using double range which allows her to move at around 499% what damage 7% of speed is gonna do, i don't really think you realize that all this update does is make camping and tunneling even more stornger, but hey can u guys give us 100k bloodpoints i'd really need that ty <3
What if I face camp the survivor so then they can't get tunneled. Then tunneling isn't an issue!
We've tested a whole bunch of durations for them leading up to this, and often times they felt too long to be in the base kit. 5 seconds may not sound like much, but it can be a game changer. As long as you can reach a pallet in that time, it accomplishes the same thing. Alternatively, another Survivor can use this time to get in position and take a hit for you.
Yea but all you have to do is bring play with your food to counter it not to mention the bloodlust is going to kick in faster and you basically got rid of pallets and now the vault speed build is dead lol.
Y'all need to play test with actual players instead of potato devs who wouldn't last two minutes at high mmr.
Also, ever think kill rates are low because mmr does not work? Dbd is not like hockey. Yes, as a matter of fact it IS a skilled play if you run the killer for 5 gens and then don't escape. Because it takes no skill at all to just facecamp the last guy. The killer them gains mmr and the survivor who ran a killer for 5 gens faces a weaker killer who can't counter them.
Very little has been done to discourage camping and tunneling with this update you've only made it easier. You'll artificially raise the kill rates without really fixing some of the core game design issues. Namely discouraging tunneling and camping while rewarding switching targets.
Yea but all you have to do is bring play with your food to counter it not to mention the bloodlust is going to kick in faster and you basically got rid of pallets and now the vault speed build is dead lol.
This doesn't even make sense. Make your choice counters the unhooker body blocking for the hooked survivor? Soooooo.... Literally the same thing it's always done? Lol wut?
Bloodlust still kicks in at the same time, 15 seconds. Tier 2 kicks in sooner at 25 seconds. If you can't get to a loop or a pallet prior to tier 2 kicking in that's a you problem lol. Most chases will still never make it to tier 2 bloodlust.
This doesn't even make sense. Make your choice counters the unhooker body blocking for the hooked survivor? Soooooo.... Literally the same thing it's always done? Lol wut?
Bloodlust still kicks in at the same time, 15 seconds. Tier 2 kicks in sooner at 25 seconds. If you can't get to a loop or a pallet prior to tier 2 kicking in that's a you problem lol. Most chases will still never make it to tier 2 bloodlust.
Pallets break faster and there is no vault build and no it doesn't bloodlust 2 is crazy fast. Body blocking is useless with the killer regaining his stamina faster after swing. 25 second chase I go in 5 gen chases all the time this is just punishing people from looping thats all this update did make playing survivor boring.
Because kill rates have probably dropped to below 50%. They aren't releasing stats but have stated 50% is their goal, and in the past few years kill rates across the board have trended down to 50, if the trend continues we might well be in the ~40s atm(or even lower). Also 20 seconds of 7% haste and endurance? That's insane, I can already picture the ridiculous body block shenanigans as well as what you can pull off with a green medkit + healing speed buffs.
The problem lies in trying to tone down or scrap anti-tunnelling/anti-camping measures on account of them being too punishing if the killer tunnels/camps.
That's the point of these measures. They are supposed to be rough and inconvenient for the killer in those specific scenarios.
Yep. Killers buffed in every conceivable way, and the few ways to delay tunneling/camping completely demolished. Base BT being only 5 seconds is a bad joke. I've seen numerous killers wait out normal BT to tunnel. Do you really think this is going to stop that? All killers move faster than 107%, so the haste is irrelevant unless the killer is dumb enough to hit you during that time. So, a completely worthless base gameplay change for survivor coupled with massive killer basegame buffs. And DS even got hit, reducing stun time to a measly 3 seconds and disabling it in the endgame.
What -should- have happened, is make DS basekit but disable it when the exit gates are powered without the stun duration nerf, and just flat out make the current BT basekit. This, in addition to slowing hook progression when a killer is camping would do so much to improve this situation. As it stands, anything but a 3 or 4 man SWF is heavily susceptible to these unfun strategies, and these changes make that exponentially worse.
Also if they wanted to remove bp bonus from BBQ and Chili and WGLF they should have doubled bp gains across the board to compensate. Because that just doubled the grind after they reduced it, making it effectively useless.
We've tested a whole bunch of durations for them leading up to this, and often times they felt too long to be in the base kit. 5 seconds may not sound like much, but it can be a game changer. As long as you can reach a pallet in that time, it accomplishes the same thing. Alternatively, another Survivor can use this time to get in position and take a hit for you.
Noone is going to be taking any hits for anyone with the We're Gonna Live Forever change.
There's no point when you can either stay on gens or escape, especially in solo queue.
Hopefully, you all are prepared for a whole lot more complaints about camping/tunneling with these changes.
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Comments
The tunnel and camp changes are a joke. Five seconds is a nothing burger for those base mechanics, and the nerfs to DS is excessive. It would be one thing if it worked both times and couldn't be waited out. Even with the existing stun, the tunnel continues. With a reduction, it's now even easier to tunnel.
These basekit endurance changes are completely insignificant, on top of making DS easy to shrug off. Tunneling and Camping will be better than ever.
5 seconds is not a lot. Hell, 15 isn’t a lot right now. If a killer wants to tunnel they will.
You also don’t realize that there are killers like Bubba, like Huntress that can easily cheese the 5 seconds and wait. You have no time to position yourself if all the killer needs to do is wait 5 seconds. Current BT is still giving people a better chance.
What we needed was something a long time lines of Pyramid Head’s cages.
I feel like people commenting that "you can't reach X in 5 seconds" are forgetting the Haste you also get. They should, in most cases, be enough to get you to loop or at least out of a dead zone.
If you want more endurance keep equiping borrowed time, 10-12 seconds basekit is too much, a free bodyblock for the unhooker for everyone without borrwed time, no thanks. Also the haste.
It's 7% haste not sprint burst. Over 5 seconds, it gets you an extra 1.4 meters....
That's baseline. You can bring other fancy stuff (OTR is going to be...evil) to improve it.
I'd have preferred it if killers couldn't use their powers near hooked survivors or shortly after an unhook near that hook, but let's see how this shakes out. The Haste effect is also pretty nice, and if it's enough to avoid a followup sweep from Bubba that's more than sufficient.
🤔 no save should be free of danger
Do people not remember that the DS stun used to be 3 seconds? It was bumped to 5s to accommodate Enduring reducing the duration. I'm honestly surprised it wasn't bumped back to 3 when enduring stopped affecting it.
This. It seems it will also stack with BT, so if you run BT, the effects are going to be large. And getting immediately re-downed off the hook is no longer a thing. And that haste is not insignificant.
And with regard to DS - as a killer, I am much less likely to re-down a surv pre-endgame just to "get it out of the way" now that I know I don't have to worry about getting hit with it at the exit gates.
Because deterrents to camping/tunneling need to be made to the BASE game. Oh boy, now we simply swap BT for OtR, what a meta gamechanger! Not to mention the complete gutting of DS.
What if I face camp the survivor so then they can't get tunneled. Then tunneling isn't an issue!
Yea but all you have to do is bring play with your food to counter it not to mention the bloodlust is going to kick in faster and you basically got rid of pallets and now the vault speed build is dead lol.
Y'all need to play test with actual players instead of potato devs who wouldn't last two minutes at high mmr.
Also, ever think kill rates are low because mmr does not work? Dbd is not like hockey. Yes, as a matter of fact it IS a skilled play if you run the killer for 5 gens and then don't escape. Because it takes no skill at all to just facecamp the last guy. The killer them gains mmr and the survivor who ran a killer for 5 gens faces a weaker killer who can't counter them.
Very little has been done to discourage camping and tunneling with this update you've only made it easier. You'll artificially raise the kill rates without really fixing some of the core game design issues. Namely discouraging tunneling and camping while rewarding switching targets.
This doesn't even make sense. Make your choice counters the unhooker body blocking for the hooked survivor? Soooooo.... Literally the same thing it's always done? Lol wut?
Bloodlust still kicks in at the same time, 15 seconds. Tier 2 kicks in sooner at 25 seconds. If you can't get to a loop or a pallet prior to tier 2 kicking in that's a you problem lol. Most chases will still never make it to tier 2 bloodlust.
Pallets break faster and there is no vault build and no it doesn't bloodlust 2 is crazy fast. Body blocking is useless with the killer regaining his stamina faster after swing. 25 second chase I go in 5 gen chases all the time this is just punishing people from looping thats all this update did make playing survivor boring.
The problem lies in trying to tone down or scrap anti-tunnelling/anti-camping measures on account of them being too punishing if the killer tunnels/camps.
That's the point of these measures. They are supposed to be rough and inconvenient for the killer in those specific scenarios.
Yep. Killers buffed in every conceivable way, and the few ways to delay tunneling/camping completely demolished. Base BT being only 5 seconds is a bad joke. I've seen numerous killers wait out normal BT to tunnel. Do you really think this is going to stop that? All killers move faster than 107%, so the haste is irrelevant unless the killer is dumb enough to hit you during that time. So, a completely worthless base gameplay change for survivor coupled with massive killer basegame buffs. And DS even got hit, reducing stun time to a measly 3 seconds and disabling it in the endgame.
What -should- have happened, is make DS basekit but disable it when the exit gates are powered without the stun duration nerf, and just flat out make the current BT basekit. This, in addition to slowing hook progression when a killer is camping would do so much to improve this situation. As it stands, anything but a 3 or 4 man SWF is heavily susceptible to these unfun strategies, and these changes make that exponentially worse.
Per the devs, camping and tunneling are valid tactics, yes? And the devs have also said that the kill rate is lower than they'd like it, yes?
So of course they didn't do everything they could to mitigate those strategies.
I love people griping about base BT like it's a buff to killer, when before there was nothing. It's only additive, takes nothing away, and stacks.
It's not like they removed actual BT.
Also if they wanted to remove bp bonus from BBQ and Chili and WGLF they should have doubled bp gains across the board to compensate. Because that just doubled the grind after they reduced it, making it effectively useless.
Noone is going to be taking any hits for anyone with the We're Gonna Live Forever change.
There's no point when you can either stay on gens or escape, especially in solo queue.
Hopefully, you all are prepared for a whole lot more complaints about camping/tunneling with these changes.