Every Nerf that Dredge needs
I know some some people will not like to hear this, but I personally do think certain aspects of Dredge need to be toned down just a tiny bit.
None of these nerfs will impact his effectivenes when playing as him in a big way though, these are all just smaller changes to make him more fair for survivors. I do think that he is a lot fun to go against, but there are certain aspects that should be looked at.
First of all, his tunneling potential. It's too much.
- The range to a hooked survivor in which lockers are blocked should be increased from 12 to 16 meters
- Lockers should stay blocked for 3 seconds or so after the survivor is unhooked
The range of 12 meters is not quite enough in my opinion. But the second change is the more important one. He shouldn't be able to teleport back to where the survivor was hooked immediately after they were unhooked. That's just too strong.
Second is his Nightfall ability. Some people are having too much difficulty with it, and I can understand why. The biggest problem in my opinion is the fact that sometimes, it's unnecessarily hard to see even within the range that you are supposed to see, because certain maps, or certain areas of certain maps, become too dark.
One of my main problems is the blackening of the screen edges. You can only see within a limited space in the center of your screen, and that really needs to be toned down, if not removed completely.
Whether the visibility range should be increased could then be seen. Because I am not sure if that is needed or not. Interestingly, it says that the vision radius around survivors is 18 meters, but it doesn't really feel like that in game.
The Gloaming Cooldown during Nightfall should also be increased from 4 to 8 seconds, it being 4 seconds means it pretty much has no cooldown at all, which I think is a bit overkill.
Third is regarding his anti-loop.
- Bloodlust should be canceled as soon as Dredge starts charging his power
- Increase the time it takes to teleport back to your remnant from 0,25 seconds to 0,6 seconds
The one change that 100% needs to happen in this category is to cancel bloodlust and bloodlust buildup as soon as he starts charging his power, and not only when he teleports. Since chaining loops is one of his main counterplays, him gaining bloodlust while trying to zone you or leading you away from certain loops is absolutely bad. That should 100% not be a thing.
The other nerf I would suggest I am not 100% sure is needed, but I do think it would be good, as it would add just a bit more counterplay for survivors. I would simply increase the time it takes to teleport back to you remnant from 0,25 seconds, to 0,6, maybe 0,7 seconds, or maybe even just 0,5 seconds. This way, survivors would also have the option to counteplay while looping loops that don't break line of sight, instead of just chaining pallet loops or running away from the loop to force him to dectactivate his remnant.
This would only be a very small nerf, because survivors already have other options to counterplay Dredge, but it would make looping him at simple pallet loops, at least the smaller ones, not impossible, but mindgameable. That means Dredge could still get hits with the help of his remnant, but if survivors predict when Dredge will teleport perfectly, they have a better chance of getting back to the pallet the other way around the loop.
The odds of getting a hit as Dredge will most likely still be higher, and increasing the time to teleport beyond 0,7 seconds I am pretty sure would be too much. It would make camping pallets a bit too good for example.
Making sure a killer has fair counterplay for survivors as much as possible, without stripping him from counterplay against survivors, is the best way to design a killer. I do think the devs already did a good job with this regarding Dredge, but it could be improved with this very small nerf. Dredge has some counterplay against holding w, survivors should also have a bit of counterplay while looping at least most loops. Right now, it's only the ones that break line of sight that allow for mindgaming his remnant while looping.
Comments
That's fair, but I wouldn't say it would make it weak. It would just give survivors a bit of mindgame potential, but I'm sure the mindgame would still be in your favor.
To be fair, I said I wasn't sure about the change, and today I had a match where I am pretty sure I teleported in the right moment, but the survivor doubled back in the right moment and still made the pallet, so maybe I am wrong about that nerf. It seems like placing the remnant right at a pallet at least has some counterplay.
In general, camping pallets or predropping them also belongs to counterplay against Dredge. So who knows, maybe you are right. I still wanted to throw the suggestion out there.
Yeah, maybe that's enough, at least to a degree. Although I surely won't change my mind on the tunneling and Bloodlust nerf.
But you are right, there is definitely a learning curve for survivors against this killer. I had one match today where the survivors were really good, wish I would have played that match better myself. His chase gameplay is actually pretty damn fun to me, if the survivors are good.
But a lot of survivors seem like they still have stuff to figure out when going against Dredge.
Definitely can't agree with that. He is definitely one of the killers that is capable of doing well at high MMR. Of course you will have to put a lot of effort in as killer players as well.
Lucky you, I already went against a few tunneling and camping Dredges.
But fair enough. I thought there was an audio cue for his remnant though. Maybe not him dropping it, though you can tell he is holding the remnant because of his animation, but I thought you could hear his remnant when in close range. But maybe I am mistaking.
I think he is A tier killer, on par with other strong killers, like Huntress or Hag.
These nerfs are just meant to iron out a few potential frustrations with him, they surely wouldn't move him a tier down.
Regarding the remnant nerf, you are maybe right. I am not sure on that yet, but he definitely does already have good counterplay.
I definitely still think that his tunneling potential should be nerfed. Yes, Bubba is better at camping, although this more about tunneling anyways, but I still think it's always healthy for that part of a killers kit to be as weak as possible.
I also don't think he needs bloodlust to counter w, he does have his lockers for that, at least in some situations.
Ah it's very small though. I have to admit, when you place the remnant close to a pallet, then there is indeed a mindgame, I got mindgamed by a really good survivor player today myself. But if you use it further away from the pallet, then there isn't really a mindgame, because the survivors can't make it back to the pallet before getting a hit against them.
On the other hand, in that case, survivors can just use the other side of the pallet loop, as pallets are generally always surrounded by two loops. So perhaps you are right, maybe he does have enough good counterplay. But I still firmly believe that increasing the teleportation time to the remnant to 0,6 seconds or so would not make it useless. There would just be a bit more mindgame potential.
the reason that blight and nurse arent being nerfed is because they are technically high skill cap especially nurse dredge however is NOT HIGH SKILL CAP u cannot compare someone who earns all of their kills through clear calculation to someone who is lowkey only counter is chain looping. furthermore his nightfall will be like legion when first released and push new players away.
These suggested nerfs would definitely not turn him into a joke.
And not half the roster is a joke. A fair amount of them are may be not quite viable at the highest level of play, but they are not a joke either.
I'm actually quite surprised I haven't lol faced him a bunch so I just got really lucky.
There's a que when he teleports but I don't think there's any information that he's left the remnant behind. The animation does help but I think the killer can do stuff like moon walking to throw you off.
Tunneling potential:
Yes, I agree. Increasing the radius of blocked Lockers and making it harder for him to teleport back instantly are good changes. If someone does not tunnel anyway, they also should not impact them.
Nightfall:
Should be toned down a bit. But only a bit, PTB-Version was too bright. But on some Maps it is really hard to see with NIghtfall, e.g. Red Forest-Maps dont look like they have 18m of Radius.
Anti-Loop:
Agreed on Bloodlust being cancelled. But I think that this is an Oversight. I am not sure about the Cooldown, I have played against Dredge, but have not played him myself a lot, so I cannot really give any opinion on that one.
Well put and I think a fair suggestion. And kudos for calmly replying to people who are jumping down your throat for opening a conversation.
Though he seems to have a butt load of powers, adding extra time to his powers seems like a simple offer. Certainly the locker near the hooked survivor.
Could just make its movement speed lower instead. Always find it surprising how quick it moves, expected it be a slow lumbering mess to be honest!
Perhaps if not doing the increase in time, if the locker is locked then it actually destroys the locker smashing it open? Making the use of lockers limited toward the end of the game? This might be a bit extreme but a thought.
Yeah, I kind of find it hard to judge the Nightfall in general. On Haddonfield, for example, I was able to see perfectly fine.
I do think the visibility radius is more than enough, even if it isn't quite 18 meters. But on some maps, I think the problem is that the already darker lighting is made even darker, which makes certain parts of the map unnecessarily hard to see. To be fair, I have had very few issues so far, and am stil able to be chased by Dredge just fine. But it seems like some people are having a much harder time, that goes beyond the intended effect. Especially for people with sight issues. That needs to be looked on.
I think what bugs me the most is the vignette effect that darkens the edges of the screen. they either need to reduce it, or just get rid of it entirely.
Bloodlust is a no brainer. However, I am not talking about the cooldown when it comes to the remnant, but the time it takes to teleport back to the remnant. The more I have been playing with him, the more I think that might not be needed. While it can shut down some pallet loops completely, survivor definitely have a good amount of other counterplay against Dredge. And he can be looped at loops that break line of sight. But increasing the teleport time to 0,5 seconds or so probably also wouldn't make a big difference anyways. But yeah, I am very unsure on that last one.
Wait moon walking? Can't he just do that without remnant? Or what exactly do you mean?
Nevertheless, I wouldn't mind a sound queue. However, I feel like on loops that break line of sight, so those where this would help, he already has fair counterplay, since he can't see what exactly the survivor is doing, while the survivor can pretty much pinpoint his location because of the sound he makes. But not knowing if he has placed a remnant or not of course makes the counterplay tougher, so maybe that would be a good idea.
It's just in my experience, I feel like survivors often know when I have placed my remnant, despite not seeing me, but perhaps they are just predicting that I set up my remnant. I need to pay attention to that the next time I play against him.
I mean, decreasing his movement speed to 110% would be terrible, it would absolutely butcher him in my opinion. I am absolutely positive they won't do that, never have they even nerfed a killer in such a way actually. I am also not sure what you mean with adding more time to his power. Do you mean his cooldown? Because that I would also rather disagree with, because I think having good map pressure is a great thing for killer. I guess I wouldn't mind if the cooldown was increased from 12 to 14 or 15 seconds, but at least at the moment, that seems unnecessary. Perhaps in the future, when the game receives it's small baseline changes.
I am going to be honest, the more I play him, the more I think that last nerf suggestion, increasing the time it takes to teleport back to his remnant, might not be needed. I am experiencing more and more survivors that have clearly learned how to counterplay Dredge pretty well, he definitely has a very solid amount of counterplay in chases. But I am also not going to say that increasing the teleport time back to remnant to 0,5 or 0,6 seconds would be bad either, since it would simply create more mindgames at smaller pallet loops. But it really might not be necessary. His chase already seems very well balanced.
The other nerfs I definitely still want to see, except maybe the cooldown nerf during Nightfall. Because I think there is a design purpose behind that, being the idea that Dredge can be anywhere, at any time. If anything, maybe they could just increase the time it takes for Nightfall to activate very slightly. But bloodlust being canceled is definitely something that should happen, just like the tunneling nerfs.
In general I think he is a very balanced killer though, these are just small adjustments that I think he could need.
Can't agree with that. His skill floor is probably on the lower end, but to play him very effectively, you definitely need to put some effort in. I'd actually argue his skill ceiling is probably fairly high. He is just not the hardest killer to pick up, but his teleport and especially his remnant can easily be misused. Or the remnant just not used at all.
In general dredge is very well balanced, these nerfs should just address a few minor frustrations with him. Especially his tunneling potential.
I am also not quite positive that Nightfall is that harsh on newer players, although it surely affects them quite a bit. I think it's just important to make sure that you can actually see properly within the visbility range, and that doesn't always seem to be the case, especially for some people, like those that have sight issues. At the very least, I want that vignette effect to be reduced or just removed.