Good news everybody!!!!

TheBean

Now that BBQ and Chili isn't as OP anymore... It might show up in the shrine now.

Wouldn't it be funny if the first shrine after the new killer is released, BBQ and Chili shows up in the shrine....

HAHAHA

...

GG killers who only used BBQ for the BP bonus it offered... Cause we all know you didn't need it for the aura reading.

discuss....

Fenix

Really killers use it for bp, cmon now. I happly admit it, i use it for aura reading.
But then again i dont feel the need to camp.

Carpemortum

Wolf74 said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Wolf74 said:

@akbays35 said:

BBQ was so widely used cause it didn't give a drawback like Distressing does (Unless you're playing Doc, Nurse, or Huntress to some degree).

Why should a perk give a drawback at all?
Is there any survivor perk giving a drawback (beside No Mither)?
Let's talk about the most used survivor perks:
What's the drawback of SC, SB, DS, BT??

Okay, I'll bite. Self care heals twice as slow. Sprint Burst only lasts a few seconds and requires walking around the map to avoid triggering it. Decisive Strike requires completing a difficult skill check or does nothing at all and can only be used once per game. Borrowed Time does nothing at all for the player running the perk.

Every perk in the game has an opportunity cost as well. For killers and survivors. If I'm running Self Care, Sprint Burst, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time guess what I'm not running? Literally every other perk! That means I'm not running Small Game to find Ruin or whatever hex perk the killer maybe running or ensuring NOED doesn't come online. That means I'm not running the various stealth perks like Calm Spirit, Iron Will, Urban Evasion, etc to avoid being found in the first place. That means I'm not running WGLF for the bonus blood points. Etc, etc, etc.

SC has NO drawback. Because it uses up 32 seconds of the survivors time. Without SC it would take 2 survivor healing for 16 seconds. That basically the same, with the bonus that you do not need to search for and find a teammate. So no drawback there, just because of the time is needs.
SB, ok, the walking everywhere to keep it is kind of a drawback, but otherwise you do not leave scratchmarks, so that is a pretty small drawback.
DS has NO drawback, just a "requirement", maybe call it a risk, but is not qualified as a "drawback".
BT also NO drawback, because you know in advance that you pick perks like BT or Well make it to support your team, because a living team is helpful for MY escape.

So no, still No Mither is the only survivor perk with a drawback. So that is not a core principle about perks. Perks are just meant to be straight advantages.

Deliverance has a drawback. Js.

Dreamnomad

@Wolf74 said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Wolf74 said:

Let's talk about the most used survivor perks:

What's the drawback of SC, SB, DS, BT??

Okay, I'll bite. Self care heals twice as slow. Sprint Burst only lasts a few seconds and requires walking around the map to avoid triggering it. Decisive Strike requires completing a difficult skill check or does nothing at all and can only be used once per game. Borrowed Time does nothing at all for the player running the perk.

Every perk in the game has an opportunity cost as well. For killers and survivors. If I'm running Self Care, Sprint Burst, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time guess what I'm not running? Literally every other perk! That means I'm not running Small Game to find Ruin or whatever hex perk the killer maybe running or ensuring NOED doesn't come online. That means I'm not running the various stealth perks like Calm Spirit, Iron Will, Urban Evasion, etc to avoid being found in the first place. That means I'm not running WGLF for the bonus blood points. Etc, etc, etc.

SC has NO drawback. Because it uses up 32 seconds of the survivors time. Without SC it would take 2 survivor healing for 16 seconds. That basically the same, with the bonus that you do not need to search for and find a teammate. So no drawback there, just because of the time is needs.
SB, ok, the walking everywhere to keep it is kind of a drawback, but otherwise you do not leave scratchmarks, so that is a pretty small drawback.
DS has NO drawback, just a "requirement", maybe call it a risk, but is not qualified as a "drawback".
BT also NO drawback, because you know in advance that you pick perks like BT or Well make it to support your team, because a living team is helpful for MY escape.

So no, still No Mither is the only survivor perk with a drawback. So that is not a core principle about perks. Perks are just meant to be straight advantages.

I like how you admit that Sprint Burst (btw, just type out the perk names. Don't be lazy) has a "small" drawback and then immediately discount it at the end. It is not a small drawback. Play a survivor and don't run unless the killer is chasing you. Then come back and say it is a small drawback. It is a substantial draw back.

Taking perks that don't benefit the player using them is of course a drawback. I could have taken a perk that increased my survivability, but instead chose to take a perk that might help a team mate. Maybe, just maybe, saving a team mate who in turn helps me escape is beneficial to me in an abstract sort of way. Of course maybe that same team mate trains the killer onto me getting me killed too. But I could have taken a perk that definitely helped me instead. The opportunity cost is substantial.

BTW, don't try to misunderstand the point I'm making. I'm playing the role of devil's advocate here. I'm by no stretch suggesting that any of these perks need buffed or are garbage. I'm simply arguing the point that they do have some drawbacks.

SpitfireOrMichina

Now it's a We're Gonna Live Forever for killer too. Thanks devs for this balance. For real, why does survivors have to struggle to get the tokens with We're Gonna Live Forever but killers only have to hook people ones, and + have an aura reading ability

Malakir

SpitfireOrMichina said:

Now it's a We're Gonna Live Forever for killer too. Thanks devs for this balance. For real, why does survivors have to struggle to get the tokens with We're Gonna Live Forever but killers only have to hook people ones, and + have an aura reading ability

True, after all its a competitive 4v4 game right?

Wolf74

@Dreamnomad said:

@Wolf74 said:

@Dreamnomad said:

@Wolf74 said:

Let's talk about the most used survivor perks:

What's the drawback of SC, SB, DS, BT??

Okay, I'll bite. Self care heals twice as slow. Sprint Burst only lasts a few seconds and requires walking around the map to avoid triggering it. Decisive Strike requires completing a difficult skill check or does nothing at all and can only be used once per game. Borrowed Time does nothing at all for the player running the perk.

Every perk in the game has an opportunity cost as well. For killers and survivors. If I'm running Self Care, Sprint Burst, Decisive Strike and Borrowed Time guess what I'm not running? Literally every other perk! That means I'm not running Small Game to find Ruin or whatever hex perk the killer maybe running or ensuring NOED doesn't come online. That means I'm not running the various stealth perks like Calm Spirit, Iron Will, Urban Evasion, etc to avoid being found in the first place. That means I'm not running WGLF for the bonus blood points. Etc, etc, etc.

SC has NO drawback. Because it uses up 32 seconds of the survivors time. Without SC it would take 2 survivor healing for 16 seconds. That basically the same, with the bonus that you do not need to search for and find a teammate. So no drawback there, just because of the time is needs.
SB, ok, the walking everywhere to keep it is kind of a drawback, but otherwise you do not leave scratchmarks, so that is a pretty small drawback.
DS has NO drawback, just a "requirement", maybe call it a risk, but is not qualified as a "drawback".
BT also NO drawback, because you know in advance that you pick perks like BT or Well make it to support your team, because a living team is helpful for MY escape.

So no, still No Mither is the only survivor perk with a drawback. So that is not a core principle about perks. Perks are just meant to be straight advantages.

I like how you admit that Sprint Burst (btw, just type out the perk names. Don't be lazy) has a "small" drawback and then immediately discount it at the end. It is not a small drawback. Play a survivor and don't run unless the killer is chasing you. Then come back and say it is a small drawback. It is a substantial draw back.

Taking perks that don't benefit the player using them is of course a drawback. I could have taken a perk that increased my survivability, but instead chose to take a perk that might help a team mate. Maybe, just maybe, saving a team mate who in turn helps me escape is beneficial to me in an abstract sort of way. Of course maybe that same team mate trains the killer onto me getting me killed too. But I could have taken a perk that definitely helped me instead. The opportunity cost is substantial.

BTW, don't try to misunderstand the point I'm making. I'm playing the role of devil's advocate here. I'm by no stretch suggesting that any of these perks need buffed or are garbage. I'm simply arguing the point that they do have some drawbacks.

About SB (Yes, I keep using the short version), I use it all the time and guess what? I walk most of the time, because I want to stay stealth as often as possible. I only use SB when the killer found me or Alert shows me the killer far away. That's why I call it a very small drawback.

I don't blame you playing the "devils advocate" here, but in general perks should just be straight up advantages and should only have a drawback if their effect is very strong.
But in fact this logic only applies to killer perks. The strongest and most used survivor perks do not have drawbacks.

BigBubs

You already had a counter to it...

powerbats

@RSB said:
Don't be surprised when more and more killers will be camping, instead of going fot that surv who is 70m away. BBQ was the only thing that kept many killers from camping, because they had incentive not to camp.

It's funny that after every PTB comes out this is the response and lo and behold the same killers that camped before still camp. While the majority of the rest play as normal and dapt or don't get bothered by it and the same is true for survivors.

Mister_xD

@Orion said:

@Mister_xD said:

i had to.
forgive me.

So you're saying Frodo should've hid behind generators on his way to Mordor?

yes.
sauron can not see through their auras.
gens too strong pls nerf!!

TheBean

@Malakir said:
You're cute. I hope this is an alternative account, this thread would be used against you whenever you will talk about camping tunnelling killer buffs etc etc, would be fun!

Seriously now, do you just play 50% of the game? You sound a little bit salty about a change to a killer perk that incentives stay away from hooks. I guess you won't ever cry about camping or tunnel again since you're so happy that one of those perks that endorse hunting is being nerfed as well as many others like bitter murmur

Nah I think some people misread my post I was joking around since BBQ and Chili hasn't ever shown up since like week #44 in 2017. So thought it would be funny the moment BBQ gets a bit nerf'ed that it shows up in the shrine right away.

I don't cry about camping and tunneling... I've played enough that this doesn't bother me anymore. I just move on to the next match, no biggie. I play killer, but not very often. I'm usually stoned when playing so I don't like to try hard too much while playing killer.

@ggallinftw said:
Stopped reading when I saw BBQ and OP in the same sentence and realised I was reading the post of one of those noobs that I hate getting matched with when I solo queue.

Hey hey... Don't blame others if you can't play.

You know I never really remember anyone from match to match unless I play with them multiple times in a row. Even then, I most likely won't remember them the next night unless their a streamer or something. Most regular players I barely remember.

I don't even know who you are but you know who I am... At least you remembered me... thanks

I made an impact... I feel special.

Usually I only remember the names I've seen on the forums.

"Why sooo serious son?"

ggallinftw

@TheBean said:

@Malakir said:
You're cute. I hope this is an alternative account, this thread would be used against you whenever you will talk about camping tunnelling killer buffs etc etc, would be fun!

Seriously now, do you just play 50% of the game? You sound a little bit salty about a change to a killer perk that incentives stay away from hooks. I guess you won't ever cry about camping or tunnel again since you're so happy that one of those perks that endorse hunting is being nerfed as well as many others like bitter murmur

Nah I think some people misread my post I was joking around since BBQ and Chili hasn't ever shown up since like week #44 in 2017. So thought it would be funny the moment BBQ gets a bit nerf'ed that it shows up in the shrine right away.

I don't cry about camping and tunneling... I've played enough that this doesn't bother me anymore. I just move on to the next match, no biggie. I play killer, but not very often. I'm usually stoned when playing so I don't like to try hard too much while playing killer.

@ggallinftw said:
Stopped reading when I saw BBQ and OP in the same sentence and realised I was reading the post of one of those noobs that I hate getting matched with when I solo queue.

Hey hey... Don't blame others if you can't play.

You know I never really remember anyone from match to match unless I play with them multiple times in a row. Even then, I most likely won't remember them the next night unless their a streamer or something. Most regular players I barely remember.

I don't even know who you are but you know who I am... At least you remembered me... thanks

I made an impact... I feel special.

Usually I only remember the names I've seen on the forums.

"Why sooo serious son?"

I have no idea who you are. I just know I wouldn't want to get matched with anybody who hasn't figured out how to counter bbq yet. It's been out for a while and has always had multiple counters.

TheBean

@ggallinftw said:
I have no idea who you are. I just know I wouldn't want to get matched with anybody who hasn't figured out how to counter bbq yet. It's been out for a while and has always had multiple counters.

Actually it was just the fact you couldn't read that was the issue. I don't think I ever even mentioned I had issues with BBQ.

I was only making a post on how funny it would be that BBQ showed up right after it gets nerf'd by the new perk coming in.

Maybe read more then a couple of lines before going off the handle.

ggallinftw

@TheBean said:

@ggallinftw said:
I have no idea who you are. I just know I wouldn't want to get matched with anybody who hasn't figured out how to counter bbq yet. It's been out for a while and has always had multiple counters.

Actually it was just the fact you couldn't read that was the issue. I don't think I ever even mentioned I had issues with BBQ.

I was only making a post on how funny it would be that BBQ showed up right after it gets nerf'd by the new perk coming in.

Maybe read more then a couple of lines before going off the handle.

In the first line you put "isn't as op anymore"

Tsulan

SpitfireOrMichina said:

Now it's a We're Gonna Live Forever for killer too. Thanks devs for this balance. For real, why does survivors have to struggle to get the tokens with We're Gonna Live Forever but killers only have to hook people ones, and + have an aura reading ability

Uhm, I wish BBQ tokens were as easy to get as WGLF tokens.