Make Decisive Strike usable for both hooks. Punish tunnellers more. Thoughts?
I really think with the current state DS is in right now, it is the most balanced it could ever be. Therefore, I don't think having DS usable twice would really hurt killers, as the simplest solution is... don't tunnel. Always go for the unhooker instead.
Why I'm in favor for this change is because once you used up DS, the killer will have no fear of tunnelling you anymore and will go out of their way to make sure you are out of the game ASAP - which makes for stale gameplay for the survivor.
Please don't bring up buffing killer perks, this thread is purely discussing how to make DS better while not making it unfair.
Comments
Tunneling may be a noob tactic but it's not illegal or against the rules. DS is fine where it is. If the killer wants you dead bad enough you're gonna die. Unfortunate side effect of playing DbD. Can't keep buffing DS and other perks because some low MMR killers like to tunnel.
It would be fine. But don't get upset if it just means people get slugged for a minute instead of picked up immediately instead.
Except everyone at very low MMR (where they're too potato to manage the extra objectives), very high MMR (where anything that would punish or restrict the killer is used as an obstruction not its intended purpose), and in general the "there is no way to reduce the number of things Survivors can attend to at once" part.
Eventually yeah you'll die if the killer has a hard-on for you. And while it's a strategy, many would agree that it's a dirty one and honestly, having Decisive Strike available twice will push killers away from tunnelling because of the time wasted, making them an overall better player, no? Those who tunnel often only get 1k by the time gates are open, which means that it's not a great strategy, despite some members here thinking otherwise.
sure, but it should deactivate if a survivor enters a locker, to prevent multiple DS-> Head Ons per survivor.
also, because "multiple DS -> Head ons" is a normal thing for Twins, that should stop being a thing, but I digress, that's a different topic.
100% agreed. Someone can be tunneled after both hook stages, so why does the perk only work on one?
That would be a good trade-off.
Make it usable twice OR add additional effects to make it a better anti-tunnel perk.
This perk does the bare minimum against tunnelers, but unfortunately, it's the best option we have against the tunneling nuisance. Some killers can just eat it like a champ and come back after you in a matter of seconds i.g Blight, Spirit, Nurse, Wraith, etc.
Yes, I understand that the perk can sometimes be a game-changer at end-game, but if the killer decides to tunnel you straight up at 5 gens left (because there are players like that smh), DS becomes useless afterward and the killer has every right to just tunnel you later on since they know you already used DS.
Either make it work twice because a survivor CAN'T provide anything to the team while it's still active OR make the survivor leave no scratch marks + blood for X seconds after stunning the killer. Allowing it to work twice would be my preferred option though.
Sometimes the unhooked survivor is the only survivor a killer can find. Or when their teammates unhook them in front of the killer. What's the killer suppose to do? Let the unhooked survivor go because nice manners? I understand wanting to punish tunneling but the OP suggestion is going to punish every killer at some point.
I'd be fine with it if it deactivated when opening Exit Gates and when EGC started to not grant full immunity during the end game
Exactly, DS literally prevents you from progressing the game if you wanna keep it active, so that's also one more reason why having it usable per hook state wouldn't be a bad idea, to me. It just punishes those who decide to play dirty.
Low MMR is also the land of not doing bones, hiding in lockers rather than doing gens, failing skillchecks, and going down immediately into every chase. Doesn't sound like the sort of place where trying to enforce "no you have to go share your murder around" is going to help the winrate much when that's already the most effective place to go for a 12-hook approach.
DS can't be used as an obstruction now, but having DS for both hooks and BT both basekit and some vague anti-camping effect and now having more perk slots for extra stuff is just asking for those to be used not to counter tunnelling and camping, but your general body blocking/stun/etc. That already happens with these perks and it would only be exacerbated by buffing them, making them basekit, and adding more penalties for being near hooks.
The quote is perfectly relevant. Killing one survivor first makes the rest of the game easier, unless it's already finished. That being made impossible isn't a change that's going to make everyone happy.
DS is only a meta perk because killers tunnel. If killers didn't tunnel people wouldnt run DS.
I see a lot of people going the traditional "It's not my fault I got tunneled, it's the killers fault route." And "But I can't do gens or heal while it's activated."
To the former: You're cute, keep trying to shame the killers that's a fantastic way to earn their support.
To the latter: Maybe BHVR has a very specific definition of what being tunneled is, and if you find yourself in a position where you might even think about deactivating it, you're not being tunneled.
oh, also, maybe it should
A: have a 30s timer max (to balance the fact it's getting two uses)
or
B: it should deactivate when another survivor is hooked or mori'd.
Do we forgetting why was DS nerfed in the first place? People dont need to abuse it like it was before, it was completely broken and momentum breaker for so many killers who didnt even tunnel but were forced into that situation by survivors themselves.
And some people still find a way to abuse it and use it offensively even in its current state. They dont need a second stun to play around with
Hmmmm I have thought hard about this. I would be fine with it working on both unhooks (Which solves my beef with the perk of oops missed the SC now it's gone. The perfect trade off for this extra use is it can't be used in end game. The perk is almost a guaranteed escape if you are unhooked in EG. A killer who does not tunnel gets burned by this perk for trying to secure a kill at the end of game.
There are killers who still don't tunnel and get a 4k. What about those?
If they gave killers power they wouldn't have to tunnel or camp just saying
Possible to activate up to two times, but disabled in the endgame, that's a trade-off I could agree with.
At low MMR spreading hooks already happens. Because it's already the easiest place to win whilst spreading hooks, adding more objectives to balance out a bodge to "fix" things will actually make low MMR harder for Survivors.
If the Killer sees someone going in for a save, either because they were in the area or they chased the person there, or the Survivors left it to the wire to go for the save, they shouldn't be near the hook? That's not even camping. There's a ton of ways you can wind up back at the hook without sitting on it.
Adding more objectives doesn't change that. "Everyone is happy" implies that nobody will be annoyed by the changes. Pretty sure removing snowball potential like that isn't going to be automatically welcomed because ~long games~
Also because survivors use ds and bt to bodyblock the killer when you get hook rescued because a survivor grinding their face in my crotch means I'm tunneling.
And you want survivors to be able to do that after both unhooks.
Base kit.
Wow.
only because survivors do almost nothing in the first place.
Sure, but only if maps size are gonna be reduced and killer overly buffed.
DS was nerfed so it could be only used against tunneling. Currently, it only does that and poorly. Making it work after both hook stages would actually prevent tunneling without it being abusable like it was before.
Slugging is gonna be a major issue later on then.
If the killer wants you gone, no perk will ultimately stop it. In most trails somewhat close there will be a time where the killer needs someone out fast, and the tactics of proxying a hook, slugging, and/or tunneling can become the only way to do that.
And those tactics absolutely suck from the surv perspective big time. Especially being on the hook for two states or till dead. Alas it's also quite effective a lot of the time.
I'll admit I have to easy solution for it either. Nothing truely balanced anyway.
Yeah balance the game first so that killers wont feel the need to tunnel in order to secure a win? How about that?
Also over at my MMR everyone got BT and they always tryna bodyblock and take hit for the unhooker
Nah I think eating ds and tunneling is a valid strategy and to have a single perk potentially stun the killer for 10 seconds and give a survivor 2 second chances with that much time gained by the survivor side would be completely unbalanced
Low MMR also contains numerous people that can't tell what tunnelling and camping are. And if they're struggling to complete objectives even when nobody is tunnelling or camping, more objectives are just going to make it impossible. Remember the whole Pinhead issue, where low MMR gets destroyed by the addition of one thing to do?
Shockingly, going for the unhooker is what BT is regularly used to deny. DS gets used, not to avoid tunnelling, but as either glorified invulnerability or to force the tunnelling and stun to waste time, because body blocking and just making it impractical to focus on anyone else. Making them basekit won't change that, it will exacerbate it, and we're probably going to see way more perks that make it harder to hook someone in the first place (or just more gen speed or stealth--can't not tunnel if you can't find anyone else, right?) The intent of anti-tunnelling effects is not the same as the effect.
I didn't say it was needed, I said it wasn't going to be a change that makes everyone happy. Linear difficulty through a match no matter how much of your objective is completed isn't going to please all players.