Why do survivors always use the same excuse?
Always curious why survivors always like to use the “the games more balanced than it ever was” in their arguments. Especially when comparing the game to 2016, it just doesn’t make sense to me. I played back when the game first came out and it was very fun as killer but quickly became the opposite over time due to things like infinite’s. It made me stop playing killer and main survivor back in the day, those sweet sweet infinite’s. Why use this excuse when the game was in an abysmal crap state that heavily gave advantages to survivors? The game has a new standard to it in my opinion and shouldn’t be compared to those days for arguments / debates sake.
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Well to be fair, killers also had machine gun build and instant kill moris back in the day. So yeah there have been some major balance changes for both sides. Killer is in its best state to date.
To make the problem seem less than it is.
Machine gun didn't last long.
The reworked maps have been given total dead zones, and co-op gen speeds have also been nerfed since release.
Yes they are in the the best state I can agree to that, but why must we keep comparing todays standard to 2016 with infinites, and guaranteed fast vaults, etc...
And brand new part insta completed gens.... we can go back and forth on this. I don't agree that killers are in their best state. Killers were at their best around the time of old Ruin.
.... because back then the game was very unfair? TL's had pallets, double window and pallet jungle gyms, instant kill mori's, machine gun (both for killer and survivor) and the afformentioned infinites. id say this game is in the best state its been since the inception, and before you accuse me of being a survivor main, i play both sides.
Yes back then it was very unfair, imo more so towards killers. However why must we keep comparing todays state to 2016? When we've clearly moved past that state and its no where near what it used to be.
because its important to remember what it was, so that it cannot be like that again.
Yep I seen maps with zero pallets in corners of the map. The maps are balanced as ever. With the the exception of the large maps, most medium size to small maps are pretty fair. I also played in maps such as the other day, were nothing but LT tiles spawned in coal tower.
Not saying the dbd devs are perfect but I highly doubt the developers would ever implement old features or mechanics.
So you want to go back to actual infinites, old DS, insta heals, insta gens with BNP etc, ok.
No where in this post mentioned bringing them back, was simply asking why do we still use this for arguments sake?
thats true, but i still think its useful to put it in to perspective, yes the game is still highly unbalanced. im not claiming it is, however i think alot of people forget just what it was like. and i think thats important to remember.
Because if you dont want those back, it means when they existed they made your experience worse, making your experience less bad now since theyre gone. Making the "excuse/argument" make sense.
Yea I can respect that, I just can't understand when people try to justify their arguments when comparing old things such as infinites and all that nonsense.
Because it's easy to forget what the game was like, and it's even easier to demand stupid changes biased massively towards one side. People bring up 2016/2017 DBD as an example of a game with a massive imbalance, and compare such imbalanced ideas to it because it would fit right in back then.
I think it's also because it's an easy way to almost completely shut down someone's argument. "I think that this should be changed because it feels unfair-" "YES BUT KILLER IS EASIER THAN EVER". And I'm guilty of doing that too- because it is easier than ever. And when someone is complaining over the most petty things, and bringing up the whole "BHVR HATES KILLER MAINS" bullshit then you just have to remind them of the actual bullshit that was in this game and how stupid they currently sound.
However, there are definitely still problems with the game's balance, for both sides. And unfortunately valid complaints are quite frequently lumped in with the petty nonsensical winging and given the same argument of "Killer is easier than ever, and we did just fine back then, stop crying".
Maps are not a problem, balance-wise. You have to remember that the game has to be balanced toward the most effective killer, perk or strategy. Right now, the most effective killers are Nurse, Spirit and Blight. To a lesser degree, Billy and Wraith. All 5 of those killers have extremely high mobility with the ability to transverse large maps with ease.
Since high mobility killers exist and since they are the most effective killers and since map size is not a problem for them, then map size cannot be reduced for other killers because the high mobility killers exist. If map size was reduced, then suddenly the high mobility killers kill-rates would skyrocket and all of them would need to be nerfed. You can't change one thing without changing another.
I've only been playing this game for 5 months but in that time I've noticed that both survivors AND killers follow many of the same patterns. Both sides complain about perks, both sides complain about the other side, both sides complain about nerfs and buffs, both sides argue about the same 5-6 topics month in, month out. This isn't a survivor OR a killer thing. It's a people thing. I'm guilty of it too and I don't even LIKE it.
I honestly wish we could go one week - hell, even one day - where all the topics were actually polite, constructive, open-minded discussions and not criticism, claims of bait, and whining about "people who do this that or the other make the game suck because XYZ".
What’s the machine gun build? It sounds fun.
The old versions of Save The Best For Last and Unrelenting.
Meyers gets sick of chasing and just straight up shoots you.
You might could shrink map sizes but add a lot more jungle gyms. That would nerf high movement killers and buff low movement killers. Since most high movement killers need to go in a straight line. However, you still have Nurse, Spirit and Wraith, which would be buffed by reducing map sizes.
after having 8 -12 streak lose as survivor (3-4k) daily .. its good to see a killer that stopped playing as a killer
welcome to survivors side ;)
Ah yes, remember when infinites were "mindgames"?
Both sides had OP stuff back then. Both sides got the OP stuff removed. So yes, both sides are in a better spot now. Relatively speaking...
But this doesn´t mean, that the game still isn´t unbalanced. Because it very much is.
People usually say this in response to melodramatic posts about how “killer is harder than ever and keeps being nerfed!” at least from what I’ve seen.
Is this like the ship of theseus question?
As someone that started in 2019 I really don't care how the game was in 2016-2017. People will constantly compare things to what they know but really shouldn't. It's ever evolving, even in the two years I've been playing the game is very different from meta to look to even how it feels to play.
While I understand the "remember the past so you don't repeat those mistakes" comments the fact remains that the game is constantly changing and evolving. Most people use it as just another Strawman argument, "thing x isn't a problem because back in 2016 thing y existed."
thats a fair point and all, but i think it is still a useful framing device, because people like to go on tyrades about how BHVR hates killer mains etc. whether or not you played it its a good standard to keep when examining these ideas on their merits. like for example, even though ds turns off if you even breathe, (hyperbolic i am aware) people are still made of piss about it and it is a useful framing device for examining their ideas of changes to it.
Using the argument as a framing device is fine, like I said "remember the past so you don't repeat it" and whatnot but to dismiss a players feeling, opinion, or argument by using that statement is a strawman fallacy.
For example I can say that I'm frustrated by the new pallet hit validation because of the camping pallets tactic many survivors are now using because 9/10 times my hit is gonna be taken away but someone replies "well back in 20whatever pallets were like x so don't complain" it's a bad use of the argument.
that is fair, tbh i often get away with things i shoudlnt do because of the new hit validation, but on the other side of that coin, idc how bad the lag is if i drop a pallet and get hit like 5 seconds later, then they warp to the other side and get stunned, that just feels ######### awful.
Because it is in the best state ever? The only unfair survivor thing left is keys. Alot of the maps need to be shrunk. If those to things happen there really wouldn't be anything unfair left.