NOED is earned... somewhat
First of all I think NOED is a badly designed perk and isnt fun to go against this is just a gripe I have with some peoples arguements against NOED and why I dont think it is a strong perk.
I often see people saying NOED isnt earned at all and that the killer gets it without any effort but the killer plays with 3 perks for the rest of the game. That is the drawback of NOED and sure its the same as every other endgame perk but I think everyone can agree almost all of those are pretty underpowered and a lot of them have some effect during the game like rancor.
Personally I don't even feel NOED is a strong perk because having a safety net to kill altrusistic survivors or snowball in the endgame doesn't feel as useful or reliable as other perks that can effect the other 90% of the match before all 5 gens are done. Even amongst perks that only work during a certain period like corrupt or lethal persurer I prefer simply because they help you at more crucial part of the match, the early game where every pallet on the map is up and you only have a rough idea of where survivors spawned. NOED effects the endgame and while it is the strongest endgame perk I still dont feel endgame perks are strong because by that point you probably already have a kill or two, you have broken a lot of the maps pallets and the final gen being completed tells you directly where at least 1 survivor is you are in a much better spot then compared to when you load in.
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I never said it was or it wasn't there is a reason that killers stack so many slow down perks and it's a problem that BHVR needs to find a way to fix and that's gen speeds, blaming the killer because they have to stack these perks to slow down the game is not the answer or the way to go about it.
i.e if they made ruin base but change the speed based on how many survivors are left so if they are caught in a 3 gen with only 2 ruin would only work at 50% normal speed still giving them a chance to do gens, that would allow killers to start picking other perks to bring that might not be a slowdown perk.
Just like survivors using DS the old version was broken and most people knew it but since they fixed it if a killer eats a DS then 90% off the time they tunnelled that person off the hook which is why people bring it and is classed a mete perk.
Both sides have crutch perks that can stack you don't like slowdown and noed killers hate DS+UB when they get a BT unhook near the exit the killer has pretty much no counter play to that but just picking out one side like you did in your first post and not also saying survivors have crutch perk's that can stack was not far for killers.
I did agree survivors have crutch perks as well
Another NOED topic... Can we just agree if Gens take less than 3 minutes to do with all the perks and them toolboxes NOED is sometimes needed. Slowdown gens and we can talk about getting rid of NOED
I just hate that you get it regardless of what happens, which is the opposite of adrenaline that has a requirement. It should be activated after hooking 3 different survivors, to make it less of a crutch for newer killers.
Here is my input on it. As a survivor, if all of you are alive one of two things can be done to win against this. Someone takes the sacrifice, which I have done before (happens more often when there are only 2 survivors though). OR the other three, if you have the ability to take a hook, look for the hex. It is actually fairly easy if the 3 unhooked people have hooks to take. Yet, NOED sucks regardless. On the killer side, there is almost never a reason to use this. I don't play killer often. The only killer I have at level 50 is Nemmy Daddy and that is because of the anniversary blood points! Otherwise, no one else is above level twenty and all my teachable perks were bought through the Shrine of Secrets so I could get good perks for Nemmy. I ran a level 17 Trapper with level 1 NOED and never needed it. I only ran it as a safety net because I feel like I suck and Ive played trapper a total of 4 times. Again I am rank 18, and rarely play killer. I get 4ks almost every time I play. Once or twice I don't get any kills when I get veteran survivors paired with a crap map. And a lot of the time I feel bad and often let everyone go after some hooks because I find that I hate killers because they are crap players and tunnel constantly. So I am a nice killer and hand out wins just in case those survivors have been tunneled non-stop like what happens to me. But NOED is shhhh, and in my opinion, as I saw above, running certain perks and NOED together just means you are not as good a killer as you may seem to think.
But if we slowdown gens than all the gen defense perks would probably need to be addressed.
You mean perks like PoP and Ruin? I personally find Ruin a joke. Usually found in less than 30 seconds. PoP takes times when you kick every gen. I'm looking forward to Pinheads new Hex might slow down the game little bit ..hopefully.
The solution you put for camping though has been tested in the past and (surprise surprise) survivors took advantage of it and would purposefully kite and run the killer close to the hook. So because of that, it was wasn't implemented.
But everything else you put I agree with. I've said for a long time now to make a mini pop (like 5%) base line and that if they do this just nerf Pop so that it balances out. Now if they also made a miniature ruin like effect base line too, then yeah I'd be down for nerfing the actual ruin hex too.
You said to make camping detrimental by having hook states last longer if the killer is nearby. Yes, this was already tested in the past. The survivors would then run around, loop, and kite the killer purposefully near the hook to buy time for their teammates to do gens before swarming in and getting the unhook with body blocks and BT.
Would you still care if the killer knows and accepts he's bad?
What more answer do you want? If there aren't any dull totems, NOED can't proc. It's a really simple solution.
Easiest way to fix it is just require 6 Hook States to activate it. No more NOED crutch, still a strong perk
Cleanse the bones and don’t cry, that’s the motto, and I say this as a solo survivor/killer player. SWF have no reason to cry about NOED
The problem is this answer shows a simplistic view of the game and a lack of understanding of solo q.
For instance, if the killer camps, everyone says, do gens and get out. Well, there goes the do bones argument, as you can not do both.
If the killer tunnels, well the plan would be to take hits, trade hooks, trade agro, all the while trying to do gens, and there goes the do bones argument.
If people are being slugged, same thing, another objective for survivors. It is silly to act like gens are all survivors do and then they run out the gates. There is a whole game being played out while survivors are attempting to do the gens.
And remember, I didn't have a problem with No Ones Even Dead yet, just when stacked with slow downs all game then into NOED. Like please pick one. Now, this does get a lot easier for SWF, but like many of us solo players can tell you, WE are not all in a SWF, regardless of what a killer likes to believe.
And doing bones is not the way to beat NOED. YOu do bones by the doors so they can't be camped. You do hard to get/find ones you come across so don't have to rely on someone finding them if you are on hook. And you remember where the other ones are. SO if NOED does proc, you just increased your odds of knowing exactly where it is, also less viable in Solo Q.
But, by all means play how you want. I agree, is you do nothing but SWF and run Meta, your ass is boosted. Same with killer, if you running slowdown stacked with NOED, then your ass is boosted. Nothing wrong with being boosted, I don't know why people get so defensive over this term.
Ohhhh ok, I'm sorry I didn't get what you meant and assumed that your comment on hook states related to the killer camping the hook cus you related the two by saying "make camping more detrimental" and the most common argument I've seen is increase the times when the killer is near the hook so I kinda assumed that's what you meant, my bad. Yeah no I agree with that, I think it sounds reasonable. I mean it makes sense from a design perspective, if you're gonna adjust one core facet of gameplay (gen times) then you're gonna have to look at everything else to make sure it's balanced out as well. Yeah I'm with you on that.
Yeah same. Thanks again for clarifying. Have a good one yourself =)
Slowdown perks mean nothing if the Killer is camping, as they cannot capitalize on it. Assuming two survivors are on generators and one Survivor is doing totems (which is so easy with all of the perks for it) two generators can pop and all 5 totems can break in the 120 seconds it takes for the survivor to die, you can likely get a third or fourth if the hooked survivor happens to be running Camaraderie. There are counters for it, It's not the Killer's fault nobody wants to sacrifice their meta perks