Solo survivor isn't that bad, just got to adapt.
Obviously solo is weaker than swf. That's not even really up for debate. You can argue what is weaker, killer or solo survivor but the exaggeration some content creators do when saying solo survivor is a million times weaker than killer is ridiculous.
Yes there will be clown fiesta games where it seems like it's the killer and your 3 team mates are against you. That will always happen even if solo is somehow buffed to be stronger than swf. But that is basically just all the argument i've heard is. People do stupid things in solo and screw the game so solo survivor is weaker than killer?
Just change your perks man. The amount of solo's that don't run kindred is mind boggling. I've seen killers post on here saying they used 4 gen slow down perks and then complain that the games still go by too fast because they can't find anyone. The solution is to take off a slowdown perk and use a tracking perk instead. But when solo's complain about being weak because no one goes for the save or everyone does or another survivor runs the killer to their gen or they can't find a Hex or whatever it is, how come the solotion for them is to stop using 3 second chance perks plus exhaustion?
If totems are an issue use anti totem perks. If you want your team to be able to be more efficient when someone gets hooked then use kindred. That being said there will be games even if you switch out perks where you will get tunneled for face camped or your team mates are potatoes but that will always happen. I have killer games where Ruin and Undying are gone in 30 seconds. Where it spawns all 4 survivors on an unblocked gen when i have corrupt. Where everyone is spawned on a different gen so by the time i down someone 3 gens are gone. No one ever brings that up when saying solo survivor is so much weaker than killer. But the time someone gets face camped by basement bubba and no one is doing gens and all just crouching around the basement, that is a perfect example of how solo survivor is miserable?
Comments
That is literally not apples to oranges. Saying it's unfair for solo survivors to have to run certain perks and saying it's completely fine for killers to have to run certain perks is unbelievable levels of bias. Those two are completely analogues. I don't think either side should be forced to run certain perks. I want solo que survivors to be buffed.
You aren't at a disadvantage, you just don't have an advantage. 4 good solos and a good killer make for a very balanced game.
Individual skill as far as looping doesn't matter. You can loop the killer for 7 minutes but if your teammates are just sitting in the basement using level 1 self care the whole time you're going to lose. Literally cannot remember the last time I was getting chased in solo queue and a gen popped.
I don't get why you're bringing killer into this discussion either, we're talking about solo queue this has nothing to do with killer. I know that killer has problems, I'm not saying it doesn't. It's stupid that killers have to run all slowdown perks just to not get gen rushed every game. It's the same thing for both sides, you shouldn't have to run perks to fix flaws in the gameplay. And stop acting like running kindred/bond/better together/any other information perk is automatically going to make your games easier. Kindred might make your teammates save you on hook, better together might make your teammates know which gens to work on, but it probably won't most of the time. And running those perks doesn't fix the lack of communication/coordination problem. All it does is give information that may or may not be useful.
And I never said that killer or swf was objectively less fun. I specifically said that solo queue isn't fun for MOST people. If anything I think you're the one trying to say what is and isn't fun by telling people who hate solo queue that it isn't that bad and to just get over it but whatever man.
So how is a killer being forced to run a slow down perk not a valid comparison as a solo survivor being forced to run Kindred.
Also you have not read the thread. I want solo que buffed i agree. I do not agree that is is 100% harder than killer. There are perks available to run that make solo que not as much of a gong but people choose to not use them and that's fine. But it's gonna be a ######### show. A killer doesn't have to run slow down perks that's fine but gens are going to fly.
When was the last time you played with all solos who were all good at looping, efficent at gens, and who weren't selfish. They definitely exist but they're very rare.
And just the fact that you have to specify "good" players says a lot. Because the average solo queue team will lose against the average/above average killer 9 times out of 10. The average swf isn't a free win or anything, but it allows for more fun skillful gameplay with real coordination and teamwork, which doesn't exist in solo queue.
One thing that tires me in this thread is the amount of times you repeat how survivors don't want to run kindred instead of their second chance perks. Makes you sound like a killer main tired of SWF with the same meta perks who is delighted how solos are required to dedicate their full build to make up for their lack of information and is afraid this might change. Please consider that always running the same static build as survivor to have a halfway decent solo experience isn't much more fun either, and there are plenty of interesting perks - not even second chance perks - in the game that I'd love to run but only really get a chance to in SWF or the moment I say something about solo experience I get hit with "why don't you just use <exact build I got tired of running every single match for days and weeks>".
Particularly as the devs are just stacking up on these kind of "here's something to make your solo matches better" perks, it's not just Kindred, all four slots can be easily dedicated to "make up for the fact you're not in SWF" perks. Totem counter so you know whether you need to hurry to snack an Inner Strength heal in case your teammates are actually cleansing totems? Or just to know whether your teammates do anything useful if you run the killer and gens don't pop? No problem, now you can just add Small Game to your build. As if I had five perk slots.
I mean you just don't play enough or you have really short chases if you can't remember last time a gen was popped during chase.
i brought killer up because that is the whole point i have been making is that killer is not way stronger than solo que survivor. You can argue that solo que is stronger than killer but it isn't some gap. Killer strength is closer to solo que survivor than it is swf.
Individual skill at looping doesn't matter. Like okay. I just don't really think you are playing the same game as me. If you think that then there's literally no point in talking to you. Every survivor is the same skill level in solo que because looping is the number one skill for survivors in dbd and if that doesnt matter in solo que then everyone is the same.
Also didn't say kindred is the be all end all fix but it does help a lot. But if people don't want to run it that's on them.
Also not saying which is more fun, just solo que is not as bad as bad as people make it out to be. Yes i have had some stupid mother ######### on my team. but i have also had decent team mates too. Kindred helps. I get that it is ######### stupid that you have to run perks as a solo that you don't in a swf which is part of why Swf is much stronger. But running these perks makes a difference
That is such a reach man. Just because killers and solo survivor's have to run specific perks for different reason doesn't mean they aren't comparable.
Solo survivors need to run perks for communication. Killer's need to run perks for slowdown. Just because the reason is different doesn't change the fact that they both need certain perks. But it's a dumb tangent. I want solo buffed. But i say that killer isn't way stronger than solo survivor so if solo survivor get buffed then i also want killer buffed accordingly.
I agree. Solo que forcing perk builds sucks but they really do help.
Yeah, killer is more close to solo queue. I'm not saying that killer is a cake walk compared to solo queue.
And no, that's not the point I'm trying to make about looping idk where you're getting that from. I'm saying it doesn't matter because dbd is a team game. Like I've said before, looping skill doesn't mean anything if nobody is making generator progress and in solo queue that's a very common occurence. Also love how much you say there's no point in talking to me and yet you're still here, talking to me...
If kindred helps you then good for you, but I along with many other solo queue survivors who use or have used kindred on a consistent basis have gotten little to no benefit from it. If you're playing with teammates who were perfectly fine with letting you hit half or even die on first hook then running kindred won't really do anything. If they're selfish enough they don't care if you die for their own benefit, seeing auras won't change that.
And you saying that solo queue isn't as bad is people think is literally telling people what is and isn't fun I don't understand how you can't see that. Just because I think killer is fun doesn't mean I can just tell anyone who says killer isn't fun that they're wrong and it's not that bad. So...just because you personally think that solo queue isn't terrible doesn't mean that everyone who complains about it is wrong.
We can at least agree on the core problems at the very least
I only play solo surv and killer.
I play killer when I dont mind sweat and have difficult games and gain more BP.
And I play solo survivor when I want to chill and enjoy easy gameplay.
But thats just my experience, playing only since sillent hill chapter
Solo survivor is a lot weaker than swf no doubt. But it is not as bad as the forum makes it out to be.
I agree. Maybe its also different for different people. For me, escape is not a winning condition. I very often pip and gain good amount of BP even if I die. And all that while having fun.
If you get several unlucky games in a row, getting hard tunneled out of the game early or having bad teammates whole let you die on first hook, its understandable to be upset.
I have said it many times, the matchmaking and map RNG is the 80% of everything wrong in this game. If you get competent teammates and fair map RNG, you are having fun more often than not.
Maybe I am just lucky but most of my teammates in solo arent that horrible and if they are its very rare...dunno
both solo survivor and killer tend to just remember the bad matches. It sucks feeling helpless so its burned into your mind.
I can remember games as solo survivor where my team mate sand bages me so i go down, then get face camped and watch even though i have kindred i watch as my team just all crouches near where i am. Not doing gens, not going for the unhook. Nothing.
I can also remember games where i've a a gen, my ruin, and my undying all go before i even made it to the other side of the map thanks to BNP and some great hex spawns.
Everyone experiances will be different though. I've seen complaints about wraith on here and i haven't played vs one in a long ass time. I don't want people to think i think solo survivor is fine and people need to not complain, i just think it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I play solo survivor too and i've had clown fiesta games. I got chased for 7 minutes once on the game by a Billy and zero gens got done because my team mates couldnt find them. That isn't the role being weak that was my team mates being dumb. And i get that it sucks because survivor ques are long and you wait in que for 10 minutes to get ######### over. But that's just how it goes sometimes.
The vast majority of the games are fine, but you get these outliers which are issues and people remember them. What i was mostly saying in this thread is
Yeah man you don't get to pick how i type. Never said we were friends, don't even know how you thought that or why you brought that up.
That is a huge reach. If the game balance is in a state where you need specific perks to function as a solo survivor, and you also need specific ones to function as a killer, that IS LITERALLY the same issue. Needing to plug in certain perks to function, thus killing build diversity, whether it is affecting killer or survivor is the same problem. Of course the perks you need on solo survivor do not serve the same function as the ones you need on killer. Duh. That does not make them seperate problems. It's the same issue for both sides but since killer and survivor have separate objectives you are going to obviously have seperate soloutions. That does not mean they are not analogous. It's the same issue. I really shouldn't have to type this out.
Also it's my thread. If you actually ######### read it you could see the big problem i have is when people grossly exagerate how weak solo survivor is compared to killer. So of course killer gets brought because that's the whole ######### point. I mention that in the first paragraph.
Solo is bad and it's definitely not only a matter of ranking. There is a simple proof. Solo is bad on ANY rank. If it was a ranking issue, there were ranks where solo survivors dominated killers, which is not the case whatsoever. Better ranking system can improve it just slightly, but can't fix solo.
Suuure... That's an excuse for bad balance in the game. If survivors do bad, survivors are bad, if killers do bad, the game is not balanced. That's BS. 2-3 years ago solo was much stronger, the escape rate was around 50-60%, after survivor nerfs it is around 30% now. Did solo survivors suddenly became bad and killere god-like? No, game balance has changed.
I'm not adding a lot to the conversation, but I still think we should see the aura of other Survivors when someone's hooked without the help of a perk. The Killer's aura should only be shown with Kindred, not without it. It'd be too overpowered if we could see the Killer's aura without a perk. At least, in my opinion.
I think it's the only buff I'm really expecting for the moment. Because outside of that, it relies on everyone's personal skill, and no perk can help you making your teammate being a top tier looper/having the right timing to unhook/wanting to take protection hit when you're on death hook and they were never hooked before.
(I don't expect my teammates to be top tier looper as I'm not a top tier looper myself. But all I ask for is: please, do generators when the Killer isn't chasing you, go for the save when the Killer is away, heal when there is an opportunity for... It's up to me/them to make the right decision at the right moment.)
Yeah up votes legit doesn't mean anything. Just because people agree with you doesn't mean you're right, It doesn't take much critical thinking to figure that out :/. If all my friends came on the forum and up voted me does that make me right all of a sudden? No of course not. Why do i have to type things like this out man
You didn't really read what i said. Solo survivor should be buffed. But no matter how much you buff it you will get bad players on your team that ######### you over. And don't worry i'm not gonna try and defend game balance. I have lost games as killer where i have made some sub zero iq plays and i lose because of it. That isn't the game being unbalanced. The same thing will happen with survivor the only issue is you can have your team mates being the ones making the plays and ######### you over. Even if survivor was god like there will always be dumb and bad players that will cost their team mates.
I much prefer solo to team, because it's way more immersive and I just didn't like people barking orders and still messing up, as well as it just breaks any intimacy.
If I want to play a game involving team work and peoplw playing specific roles; running specific builds, then I'll just play League of Legends.
Obviously, there are games where team mates are bad, but in my experience it's not common. Also, it is odd that you always hear people upset by fellow players being n00bs, and yet nobody admits that they themselves also have games like that. Because I guarantee everyone has (at the very least) been that team member who ballsed up.
Solo survivor could do with a buff, but it's not as simple as BHVR hopes, because by bringing swf into the game, it's caused an imbalance that's quite drastic and would involve a lot of tweaking. And swf cannot be removed, because a lot of people would leave. It's catch-22.
Also, as someone mentioned earlier above, some swf use 3rd party comms. So, if solo is buffed, then there's the added problem of these comms being used whilst the party is separated, so they too get the benefit as well as comms. On the other hand, swf who don't use comms would then be the weaker, penalised groupings. And then killer would need a buff, until the cycle becomes never-ending.
Honestly, I don't think it's a simple fix... But, yeah anyway, I enjoy solo!
The argument about bad players is pointless. There are bad players in any game, among survivors and killers, that's not what's making Solo survivor so bad, it's game balance for solo or the lack thereof. Right now if I play with good survivors, not god-like, we are still most likely to lose, this is what makes solo bad and must be dealt with. If I will get bad teammates, who cares, I don't expect to win every game.
It's not that all solo survivors hate playing solo, I prefer solo over SWF too, it's about solo survivors being treated like second class citizens, solo survivors should have realistic chances to escape, 50% ideally, which is not the case right now. Another point is that SWF have a huge advantage, which DEVs should address too.
True, the devs could look into addressing it, but it would need to be from a perspective of buffing solo and not weakening swf. Weakening swf may result in a lot of people leaving the game, whilst buffing the existing may encourage more to start playing it - knowing it's not as daunting as it once was.
But it's not a simple fix, unfortunately. There will be balancing in stages, and at each stage the people who favour one side will get upset and then this weird see-saw effect will come in, which I'm not sure how it will end up. If people are patient, then it may work. Regrettably, some aren't.
I don't understand why you won't respect @ImmersedNurse's wishes and not use the phrase "man" when referring/talking to them.
It's basic respect. Get some.
The problem with solo queue is that you depend on having good teammates to win, doesn't matter how good you are or what perks you use, if your teammates are bad then you can still lose a match, that's why solo queue feels frustrating...you lose most of the times because of your team not because of your individual skill (lots of games have this problem) like league of legends, you can completely dominate your lane but if your teammates feed the enemy team kills then it's an uphill battle and sometimes a lost cause.
Same problem here, anyone can repair a generator or equip a perk to break totems but not everyone can loop the killer, so many games I've had where I loop the killer at the start of the match and think ''this guy is not a good chaser, we got this one in the bag '' then the killer realizes he can't catch me so he goes for someone else and not even 30 seconds after he breaks the chase with me a teammate goes down (and it's fair I guess, that's what a good killer is supposed to do...identify good and bad loopers and basically destroy the team from weakest link to strongest, I do it myself when I play killer) and despite the fact that I could do gens if the killer ignores me if my teammates can't stay alive for longer than 20 seconds per chase then you can still end up with 2 people getting killed before all generators are completed and end up in a situation where there's only 2 people left with 2-3 generators yet to be repaired and it becomes extremely hard to complete the missing gens or next to impossible and ends up being a hatch game.
You also depend on a team of randoms to be efficient and sometimes that doesn't happen, so many games I've had where I loop the killer a solid 2-3 minutes at the start of the game and not even 1 generator is completed (I wish I could know what my teammates are doing sometimes) this is not a problem in SWF since you ensure that you pick your teammates to avoid being matched with 3 potatoes.
So...losing or winning depends on your team as a whole, your individual skill or perks you use can be useless sometimes if the rest of the team is just bad.
Yeah solo que can be frustrating. But I will say solo queuing made me a better looper. I don't have to rely on swf and comms to be actually good at the game. I can carry my own weight. Most of the time killers will give up chases against me and go after the baby meg.
Yes, buffing solo, SWF can't be nerfed without nerfing solo too.
Here is a list of how to improve the Solo Queue gameplay yourself at a low cost. For the console I would have to make a slightly different list because this one mainly shows pc players. The statistics are verified after over 1700 hours of playing
Legend:
S is for best teammates u can get. You can be sure they will care game out of the worst situation
A is for similar to S, however this teammates, make small mistakes
B is for above avarge players they they know when to repair generators and when to go to the rescue. With them u have normal chance to win
C is for typical avarge teammates they do gens, bones. Sometimes, instead of doing anything, they walk around the map looking for Narnia
D is for ,,Don't think and skip that lobby''. Avoid these players like fire!!! They can screw up a winning game. Especially Meg and Claud they are always looking for Narnia, even after they find it
Taking second chance perks is NOT "selfish play" necessarily. The biggest asset you can be for your team is actually being alive since we all know how many Killers tunnel one survivor out at the very beginning so they can secure their chances of getting 4k. The less survivors there are, the easier the game becomes for Killer. And you know, most of us bought this game to actually play it. The Killer has the choice and power to end the game for just about any Solo survivor at any time and they often do (again, simply camp/proxy camp and tunnel right off the hook). Yesterday I witnessed a Hag tunneling so badly that 2 survivors only came away with like, 3k BPs each. Kindred is useless against Proxy camping.
Those matches are the epitome of misery and occur often enough that second chance perks become a necessity. For some, their importance overshadows information perks. Meanwhile, SWF have; Kindred, Empathy, Bond- and a bunch of other extra perks by default. I think that might be what's rubbing some people the wrong way here; you're acting (maybe not your intent) like second chance perks are this fun choice and we're just being selfish if we use up slots on any anti-tunneling/slugging perks. But tunneling at high ranks is SO bad, that a Solo has a greater chance of earning more BPs and being able to play the game for longer by equipping whatever we can to get away and prolong the game. In red ranks, hell, you can bloody well depip even if you escape because of how the emblem system works.
Anyhoo, I don't think you and I entirely disagree though at base. I know all too well that Killer is stressful. I have to be in the right frame of mind to play it LOL. But when I do play Killer and get frustratedm it's usually when I face 3-4 man SWF's. Their advantage is ridiculous. I think the problem is that BHVR wants them in so bad for the $$$, so they try to balance Killers and SWF when the game wasn't initially designed that way. To me, Solo queue is just the chattel BHVR throws to the Killers so they don't quit lol. Because if the game stayed the same, but there were only SWF to be matched with, there would be no Killers because it's an exercise in masochism. If it weren't for SWF I'd play Killer more.
Lmfao yes it can. The biggest problem with it is bad teammates. Rank doesn't mean anything right now. By making actually skill based ranking, they'll fix solo queue.
That's when infinites and instameds existed. You really have no right to call that balanced.
As a Nea main, I agree with this
The problem with solo play is that there are an imense amount of survivors that do not deserve the red rank, i always end up carrying the team, dying with the most BP or im the only one escaping. Its in this situations where you can feel that the rank system sucks and it doesn't work as it should.
holy ######### have you ever played solo queue no gens get done within 3 minutes
all survivors are crouching in corners
That's common sense. If solo is so miserable because bad solo players have too high ranks assigned to them, then there are better players that have ranks assigned to them, that's too low for them, so they would dominate killers. But when ranking up from 20 to 1 it never happens. If you reassign ranks/MMR rating, it's not gonna change anything, because the balance is skewed globally, not only for some ranks or certain survivors.
Again, by fixing ranking and matchmaking they fix solo queue. It doesn't need any buffs specific to it.
The information gap between solo and SWF is a design flaw but go off.
We can't remove SWF without killing the game so we fix the design flaw of the information gap between solos and SWF while simultaneously buffing killers to cope.
Do you know what "balance" means? Balance is relative. By making the weaker side of the game stronger you restore the balance and fix the game.
And what are those exactly?
Well the situation is slightly different from generator speeds. We'd have to nerf generator delay perks after we standardize generator speeds a little more, but information perks would just become redundant if we fixed soloQ communication issues.
Swf is very strong compared to solo and killer so both need to be buffed and steps need to be taken to lessen the gap because as of right now we only have bad aid solutions
Info perks would still have some usage. They are a lot stronger in solo but being able to see exactly where the killer is going from kindred or the exact spot someone is on the map with bond would be helpful. Not everyone would be able to call out the exact location of the killer.
I've been chased for 7 minutes by a billy on the game and no gens were done.
I had a Freddy 3 man slug everyone else and when i went to save them none of them had recovered at all even through they weren't moving.
I've been there. But i've also had the opposite where a cracked random cj tech the killer to save me, or when i've been chased by a legion on Lerys and all gens popped and then my team came to body block for me to get out.
People are only going to remember the bad. Killers are guilty of that too.
Yeah i think i could've worded things better. I think we do fundamentally agree that swf is just too strong compared to the other roles. And look i totally get why the Meta build is the Meta build. You can't really rely on your team mates too much because you have no idea how good they are. And i sympathize with the survivor getting camped. It's not much fun to have a 8 minute que to get camped after first down to death.
I really want solo to be buffed. It's just when i see content creators and the forum talking about how solo survivor is comically weaker than killer i just have to disagree. When solo gets buffed as it should, i want killer also buffed. I think killer is closer to solo survivor in terms of strength than it is to swf so when and if solo gets buffed i want fair compensation for killer and the talk that solo is so weak compared to killer makes me think there would be a lot of blow back if the killers got semi decent buffs.
I know the forum and content creators are not be all end all decision makers on the game, but the devs do read the forum and watch the content creators videos so there is at least some pull.
Bringing SWF to solo level, limiting number of perks will create too many additional exceptions and headache for DEVS, much more spaghetti code, branched logic and complicate future updates. It's pure madness. As a DEV you must be out of your mind to do that, when there's a much easier approach, which maintains code and game architecture university.
Yeah I agree with that. I just don't agree with the mindset that solo queue isn't fundamentally awful.
I don't think we will agree on that aspect ever, but at least we can come to the same conclusions
There should be a subforum here "Solo Q Therapy" LOL. So many of us have been traumatized, we could have a "safe space" to be heard :).
... yes I'm being sarcastic, but we've all had horrible experiences haha.
So like solo queue group therapy? I like the sound of that
Exactly!
"Grandpa, why don't you tell us what happened today. Go at your pace, no one is judging you here."
Grandpa; "I was at Coldwind. The Hag was prancing around in her red evening gown, which is traumatizing enough- but then a Jake was hooked. We ALL know Hags proxy camp, right? RIGHT? They hook you, then lay traps at the base of the hook. It's a THING. We either have to crouch walk to unhook, or burn them with a flashlight. Well I didn't have a flashlight because I seem to suck with one, so there I go, carefully, painstakingly crawling- inching ever closer to the hook to save Jake. He watches me slowly yet stealthily reach for him, and just as his tippy-toe reaches the ground the jackass breaks into a RUN. A bloody run.
Why? Whhyyyyyyyyy?? Corn will never be the same for me every again D: "