I found the best way to trick a killer
Get a 4-man SWFs together, everyone equip flashlights then at the last 12 seconds, unequip them. Almost guarantee the killer runs lightborn or franklins XD Thought it was pretty funny. So far, every killer has ran one, the other or both then got pissed at the end game chat for wasting their perk/perks lol.
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If the Killer carried you over by the hatch and dropped you at it, you would assume he was letting you out. If he let you crawl right to it and suddenly slammed it in your face and hooked you, you would know his/her intent was imply to screw with you. It would be a sick, perverse thing that had nothing to do with the game itself. It would be for the Killer to get his/her kicks at your upset.
In this case, we know what the OP's intent was in fact. I don't know, since you came to this thread so late in the game, if you saw the original title of this thread or got to read the original post. It suffices to say that the OP admitted that the point of the switcheroo was not to take advantage of the benefit it provided in the game (although that benefit is significant) but just anger to the Killer's player to the point that the would get salty in the end game chat. The whole point of the action was just to aggravate the player, not unlike our hatch slamming example above. I don't have to guess at the intent because it was clearly stated.
However, since the OP has now changed the name of the thread and altered that original post, I'm just going to let it go and assume that means it is now understood on some level that it wasn't the best idea or thing to champion. Personally, I hope this thread just kind of dies away at this point. The subject is exhausted.
Yah I wasn't taking issue with the intent behind his action, that's why I said hiw would you even be able to tell as a Survivor being camped why the killer did it, which I noticed you ignored and switched to something else, or in this case as the killer getting tricked into a bad perk.
I was popping up to ask if you think a group doing what he did not primarily to piss off the killer but to gain an advantage was ok, because you seemed to be against that as well even though it would fit right into that player agency portion if the game
Keep it up!
Won’t work on killers like me who could care less what you bring. XD
That is funny though, and totally smart against those killers that gotta “prepare”.
You can go back through this thread and see what I think of it. I said they are perfectly able to do so, but that it is ethically questionable. It is within the rules for someone to change at the last minute. It is within the rules for a SWF to communicate. So to pull the stunt is well within the rules. Something can be within the rules and still be of questionable ethics. I would have been less bothered, and wouldn't have posted in this thread at all, had the OP simply stated that they were doing it only for a competitive edge. I wouldn't have approved of the method, but my approval is beside the point. It would still be within the rules. I chimed in because of the stated intent, the wanting to anger/grief another Player for laughs. That is being a bad sport. The Germans have a word for it, "Shadenfreude."
i dont think i've ever switched to lightborn or frankilins sometimes I wish I had but never really do.
Again not a problem that you think he shouldn't be doing this to get a rise out of killers, so long as your ok with it if it's for the win. (Personally the intent doesn't matter as much to me but it's fine either way.)
I don't think i mentioned it being against the rules and I'm not saying you did either.
it's the ethically questionable part that I'm talking about
I'm having trouble seeing the difference between this and any other bait/trap for the killer to fall into, or do you consider those ethically questionable as well?
Or is it just becusse it requires teamwork to pull off, putting it more akin to a strategy based around certain survivors bringing certain perks for maximum advantage ie one survivor brings prove thyself another bt etc etc.? Is that what you find questionable?
I'm not sure why you care about what I find ethically questionable. Something that is questionable in the ethics department is largely personal, i.e. could I look myself in the mirror if I were doing it. Would I still respect myself or value any win I earned using the practice? Do you see my point? It is within the rules, so it is legal. I just don't do it, nor am I going to commend it. The only reason it was even discussed in the thread (by me) was because the OP went out of his way to talk about why it didn't matter that they did it anyway because it didn't affect the game (and was just for laughs). That required a response, because that statement was incorrect. When the switcherroo works as intended, it causes the Killer to play one Perk down. That is a tangible effect on the game, and thus the OP's statement needed correction. Other people, like MadLordJack commented more on that than me. I don't like it but I accept it. The same is true of so-called face-camping; I don't like it but I accept it is part of the game.
But if you want to know why I think it is ethically questionable, it is because it is outside the match. It is largely possible only with Comms. While you can chat at each other in text, that isn't how it is normally done and would take a lot more work. Solos don't generally want to do that kind of thing, and suddenly coordinating with strangers in that manner doesn't happen that often. In short, it seems like a thing which is logistically easier for SWF (as so many things are) and thus one has to wonder why they need one more competitive edge, i.e. trying get the Killer to play a Perk down. Perfectly legal but... most people just don't (or can't easily) do it. Even the OP insists it wasn't done for that reason. He said he did it for laughs to see if he could get the Killer to lose his [bad word] in the end game chatter because it is funny. I would point out that even the OP seemed to feel getting advantage would be wrong and got very defensive and went to great lengths to say it wasn't about that. This would seem to indicate that even the OP wasn't entirely comfortable with that part I find ethically questionable.
In the end, the only thing I truly take issue with was the Shadenfreude. Since that seems to be repudiated now, I am no longer vested.
Last second switching should be illegal
I Got yah, it's primarily that its done in the lobby by swf's that your uncomfortable with. Fair enough, and ayh your definityl going to have difficulty doing that with solos/not really be able to accomplish it.
that being said it seems nearly identical to SWF's coordinating perks and roles prior to the match which I wull admit to having done. You think that questionable too then I take it?
Don't make us remember the dark times were this was doable. People could check the temp data in the game folder during the lobby and find the used killer. This lead to killer last second switching at some point. There were even two selfmade programs grabbing that data and displaying it faster. Until behaviour managed to successfully encrypt that data (took them two or three tries).
I think it provides a competitive edge, but it isn't questionable because they have stated it is legal. My views on SWF are a matter of record. I think they need to be in their own Queues or Killers should have an additional Perk slot unlocked when they pull a 3+ SWF to help offset Comms. Me and my own, we will talk on Comms but our rule is not to talk about the game. We might discuss football, movies, etc. but no calling out the Killer's position. That is a personal choice. I don't expect others to do it, nor hold them to our standard.
I do hope the DEV eventually either unlock a Perk for Killers facing SWF or add additional Objectives because SWF are hurting SOLO Players far more than they are hurting Killers. To put it simply, Killer players adapt. I fight SWF pretty frequently and at my level, many of them are well-coordinated and fully loaded out. I do ok, but I'm also insanely competitive. The problem is that while Killers are adapting to fight the competitive edge SWF bring to the table, the Solo are now thrown against Killers who treat every game (because they can't be sure until it is too late) as if it is a SWF. It causes a lot of misery for Solo Players and it isn't the Killer's fault. :)
If I knew when I'm facing Solo versus when I'm facing SWF I would play appropriately. Since I don't, I have to assume the worst.
The problem is not only swf vs solo but also the skill difference at red ranks. The scale is bad solo -> bad swf -> good solo -> good swf. And all this combined at rank 1-4. Thanks to what I compare to other ranked pvp games gold to grandmaster rank stuck together.
Matchmaking is certainly an issue, and no matter what method they use to calculate it, SWF is still OUTSIDE of it. I suspect that is why we still don't have the new skill based matching implemented. It has no way to account for SWF.
Flashlight squad are a gift from God if you are a decent killer.
By paying attention, you can easily 4k at 5 to 3 gens against teams like that.
Agreed; as I stated way early in this thread, I consider it my birthday when I see four flashlights. I don't equip Lightborn, I gear up for a Bully Squad and take the kid's gloves off. If someone pulls a switcheroo at the last second, that is just their tough luck because I'm already coming in rattlesnake mean. :)
Yeah pretty much. They would have to set the bar higher for different swf sizes and give them a fixed amount of mmr points to compensate but that would either leave teams like your people without competitive communication behind or not compensate enough for those people that make non stop shot calls.
I guess a mod changed the title themselves to make it better. Lesson learned, I guess. No matter how you play a match, someone will take offense and get mad on the forums. I'll make sure to check my titles next time, though. Man, the posts I did on PC look so much longer on mobile. Didn't even realize it.
Yeah, that was the point. I should have worded the title better and SWFs don't really bother me that much when I play killer because I don't take this game that seriously anymore and for good reason. I see the ones getting mad about it because they want to win no matter what instead of just taking the game in stride.
I see a helluva lot of tunneling in solo q and even when I'm playing with my dudes at night but I'll defend it since it's the best choice sometimes but getting mad at something stupid like taking off flashlights while being fine with old moris, keys and face camping with Bubba is fine tells me all I need to know.
This game will NEVER be competitive in a true sense. RNG can make or break your chances at it. Why should I sweat every match and ram my head against a wall until I go to the forums and complain about SWFs, Face Camping, Tunneling, Keys and just other stuff that the game works best by doing?
You want to treat the game as a competitive game then actually doing your best to give yourself an advantage is the best way to do it as long as you're not breaking the rules or using cheats. Yet when someone loses enough times, they lose their ######### either way.
If they locked items after 20 seconds to give a killer a chance to change perks still would be fine, in my opinion. Same with letting killers know its SWFs and I've been advocating for the SWFs thing for awhile now but had so much push back since most would dodge the lobby, causing higher que times.
Just give double the BPs for the trouble of facing them and I doubt anyone would dodge but at the end of the day, it's the devs that can make the final decision.
I'm not sure there would be anymore Lobby dodging than there is already. People have all sorts of ways (some correct and some incorrect) to gauge/guess whether they loaded in with a SWF. If people already think they can tell, they dodge. I think a level playing field (or the BP bonus you suggest) would go a long way to solving the issue entirely. My suggestion has always been to unlock an extra Perk Slot for the Killer whenever the get a 3+ SWF and test that out to see if it equalizes the intelligence advantage. Only by testing will we be able to tell if it is enough or not.
I think they should tell us when we face a SWF or more importantly when we don't because Solo suffer the brunt of the issue. Killers have to assume they are dealing with a hardcore SWF until proven otherwise or they can literally lose the game in the first two minutes. By the time I realize I'm not dealing with Seal Team SWF, I've already hobbled the average Solo team and totally demoralized them. At that point the damage is pretty much done. I'd like to know so I have the option not to come on like freight train. I'm still going to play to win, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be rattlesnake mean, and I will make sure those Solo get lots of points and practice. I will be more cavalier and take risks I wouldn't against a SWF, and in doing so I can experiment and learn, and they can possibly turn those risks into wins.
I completely agree with you. Been saying it for awhile but the post that I have done never got anywhere and soon got buried under the tunneling, camping and key threads that we always see now. BPs would make a nice offering for the trouble and now that you can see who is and who isn't, you get a chance to react accordingly.
Oh you clearly havent seen the potential with flashlights in this game
Yeah, I had a Jane who switched away from a key at the last minute, and I'm pretty sure she was trying to trick me into running Franklin's. Joke's on her, though. I'm so bad at killing people that keys don't even come into play until EGC anyway -- no need for Franklin's here.