Why killers dislike dead hard
Dead hard is an exhaustion perk that many killers dislike because it has way to many upsides for its single downside of you have to be injured to use it and has plenty of strong interactions to abuse
examples of some of its strongest interactions
trapper dh over a trap
wraith can deny Wraith's post uncloak speed boosted lunges
nurse dh through a hit and force the nurse to go into 4-5 seconds of fatigue animation
huntress dh and have a hatchet phase through you
hag dh out of a hit from a activated trap and keep going because they are a 110 killer and can't really chase
clown dh for distance to a pallet to counter a well done mindgame or bottle throw
spirit dodge a post phase hit and make distance as she is a 110 and her power is on cooldown
legion stop him from chaining his frenzy for slowdown
demo counter a well placed shred
oni dodge an entire hit of his power and buy like 5 seconds of free running because his power takes a while for both missed attack recovery and starting to demon dash again
deathslinger dodge through a shot at any distance
pyramid head dodge a power hit and gain 2.25 seconds of distance for his power cooldown
blight dodge a rush hit and put him into his powers cooldown which can take between 6.5 - 12.5 seconds before he can use his power again
twins dodge a victor hit and kick him
All this in addition for being able to just use it to extend a chase by pressing a single button
Does too much for something you get in a natural course of the game by just getting injured with no more investment from the power other than having the perk equipped
sprint burst versatility
use it to get to a better spot to start a chase
use it to get away from the hook as the killer returns
use it mid chase by getting it to a low cooldown before letting it cooldown all the way mid chase to get extra distance but most of the time you won't be able to use this one while progressing the game
in comparison to the other meta exhaustion perk it just does too much and has to many good matchups
Comments
I dunno, unlike other exhaustion perks, you have to be injured, which ups the ante. I feel it deserves more options because of the consequences for a miss play. If you mess up sprint burst, then take the hit and get a second burst, you can afford it, but DH? Your going down if you prompt too early or too late.
Seems fair enough, it just sucks that survivors don’t use it to outplay a killers power or swing, they use it to reach pallets or windows they didn’t deserve, after being outplayed at a loop. A literal insta-fix to a mess up they made.
I mean, yeah. I hate it because it is designed specifically to directly rob the killer of a hit. I'd 10× rather 4 SB's even though SB is probably stronger when used properly.
But the fact that Dead Hard is practically mindless for it's sheer versatility, repeatability and strength just rubs salt in the wound.
Well, it's not that great because the servers are terrible.
I agree with this. Evertime I try to use dead hard it feels as though it is a 50/50 chance as to whether it works or I end up exhausted on the floor.
I dislike it as killer and survivor, I may like it as survivor if they somehow got it to work properly. As killer, apart from getting it to work properly, I don't really see the need for much change with it though.
People dont heal anyway half the time unless it right after a save
I'd rather play dead hard than someone that knows how to use sprint burst well lol, dead hard is eh tbh doesn't matter much
Nah, SB is just infinitely more annoying than DH IMO.
Survivors just sit in your face, or if caught off guard, get away for free. The impact it has is far more annoying, unlike DH which is easy to counter unless used perfectly (i.e more distance for that pallet).
that is possible I decided it should be its own thing as I thought it was too good of a response
for all these purposes it is usually that great as most of these aren't entirely server based
dh over a trap? no need to worry about the server
Also, they can deny Wraith's super-lunges with the right timing, which is extremely dissatisfying to me as Wraith.
You actually have it backwards. It's the only exhaustion perk that doesn't have a downside.
Sprint Burst requires you to walk everywhere in order to have it ready when you want it. Alternatively, you can "99" it, but then it requires you to be constantly running, meaning you can't stop to reapir a gen. It also doesn't extend a chase because it basically can only be used at the beginning of a chase, giving the killer the option to abandon when they see sprint burst go off.
Lithe requires you to vault something, but it isn't optional, once you vault something, it goes off. This means you can't extend a chase with it, but it can be used to get to a safer place if you find that a pallet is gone.
Head On requires you to be in a locker and can't really be used in a chase outside of some luck, deception, and potentially stacking over perks. Additionally, it doesn't really extend a chase either as it only buys you a few seconds.
Balanced Landing is the only other one that can actually extend a chase, however, it is very hard to use, and they are very few spots on many maps that you can use it, additionally it can go off when you don't want it to if you drop at the wrong time.
The pallet stun one (i forgot the name but the new one coming) has some counterplay. You generally don't want to get stunned by a pallet as a killer anyway. And, often, unless it is not a safe pallet, you are going to break it most of the time. This basically allows the survivor to force you to abandon chase, or take a long time catching up. I see it as a sprint burst with extra steps, but requires some more skill to activate, by stunning the killer. It also has a downside as pallet stunning can sometimes be risky.
Then we come to dead hard. It can't accidentally be used, because you have to activate it, meaning that you are able to save it for the exact moment you want to use it. It's only downside, is that you must be injured, although, not really, because at some point in every chase, you ARE going to be injured. It also can be used to "dead hard for distance" which is its biggest problem and the thing that makes it so strong. You can effectively edge yourself around a loop an additional time, dead hard for distance to a pallet, drop the pallet and now you have reset the chase. It is the only exhaustion perk that you can reliably extend a chase with, and not just for a few seconds, but you can effectively reset the entire chase by dead harding to a pallet that you wouldn't normally be able to hit.
Ideally, i would work deadhard to either make you broken when using it for a long period of time (like 120+ seconds, perhaps even the rest of the match) or, more preferably:
Rework it so you get an extra sprint burst when you are hit (think sprint burst + getting hit), that way you can't just stay injured and be safe with a "extra" health state effectively. You can only use it when you are full health and then get hit, you also telegraph to the killer that you used it, meaning they now have the choice of abandoning chase and going after a different survivor or they can continue on and now know that you are in a weaker spot once they catch up.
Dead Hard iframes basically counter every killer power in the game.
What you forgot to list was:
You can dead hard through a Doctor's shock to get a window/pallet vault or pallet drop while he gets slowed down / punished despite playing his power correctly.
I've said it multiple times and I'll say it again: Dead Hard is singleplayer-game design in an asymmetrical PVP multiplayer game. Terrible design.
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People also forget to emphasise DH's invisible frames a lot. People literally will sometimes DH into a killer when the killer is about to swing or use their power (i.e. projectile hit) because they know invisible frames will protect them from getting hit.
DH is very abusable and acts as a third health state. It's not like the other exhaustion perks where it involves setup and has some sort of risk to the survivor if not used properly. There is no downside to using DH because it's literally pressing E and nothing else.
Like for example, Pyramid Head's Rites of Judgement can be negated by a survivor using DH through it. Not to get across it, literally in the same direction of the power.
Sprint Burst is objectively better in terms of its strength but in practice not as strong because of how it takes over the normal running function and how slow walking everywhere is, even when using Fixated. But at least I respect someone who knows how to time their Sprint Burst well since that takes time management and some sort of effort, unlike simply pressing E
three blinks and a swing = 4.5 seconds rounding to the proper number of sig figs due to the lowest value only having one sig fig the answer would have 1 sig fig so its 5 take it or leave it
as a trapper main...
dh over a trap
these ######### hurt...
you set the trap and successfully herds the survivor towards the trap. then they press E... and now you can't continue chasing because your trap is on the way, meaning you need to either go around (which on some loops = giving up on the chase altogether), pick the trap up and lose a good distance (you might not even be able to pick it up, and if you do pick it up it means there's 1 less set trap on the map), or just give up and go do something else (like go play civilization V).
not even current OoO is this game breaking
You are confusing "abuse" for functionality. The entire purpose of dead hard is to be a second chance evasion. Imagine people getting salty for running make your choice; it abuses the system by denying the survivor dead hard but still getting them down, cheap ez toxic way too OP nerf when im quitting the game and starting a petition to ban make your choice and whoever made it should be executed
Dead hard has easy counters. #1, don't swing and bait it out. If it's being used for the I-frames, this is easy to manipulate. If it's being used to gain distance, too bad. That's the point of exhaustion perks; to gain distance within a chase. You can't get mad at survivors for wanting to extend chase when they have the chance, just as they can't get mad at us for running expose perks and cutting the chase short.
max implies there is nothing above it bookmark increases max, cannot in good conscience say its 4
Alright thats a very confusing post but heres the thing, functionality is how it works, it works by doing a short dash with I-frames thats the simple part
the hard part is how abusable that is thus a list of ways to abuse it not functionalities of the perk
thing about the counters, cant really counter a lot of uses to it
dh over a trap cant counter it
dh through a post blink lunge the distance itself is usually enough to make the nurse miss or have to fatigue anyway
dh through a shred? they already committed to an obvious animation with a 2.5 second cooldown regardless go for it
im not refering to all the situations where dh can be used at the end of a chase to bait a swing to make enough distance and keep going im listing all the literal soft and hard counters this perk produces by existing
and yes I can get mad at survivors when they extend a chase when they messed up by pressing a single button because thats literally the definition of a second chance that they have on a cooldown
Yeah, sorry killer mains. Dead Hard is not powerful enough to warrant a nerf. You only hate it in the hands of competent survivors, but then competent survivors know how to maximize the usage of each of the exhaustion perks.
Aim at something that actually needs a nerf. Although with OoO and DS being spanked a bit I'm not sure what that leaves you to gun for. Or is that why DH is on the menu now?
but im not talking about basekit which is the disconnect and we are both right in our own words and wrong in each others, this is just lose/lose or win/win situation according to our viewpoints and the view points of the other
so heres the ultimate question
are we both losers in this situation
or both winners
Competent survivors don't need Dead Hard (or any other exhaustion perk for that matter) to hold a chase.
Again, all of that was meant to be part of DH. It's not abuse if it was intended.
DH requires timing and nuance. It also requires that they actually be in a decent loop, and beyond that, that they are actually capable of looping. Any idiot can press E, just as how many idiot can lunge. There is nuance to it.
Plus, that opens the door for survivors getting mad at you for running haunted grounds. You don't even have to do anything; just wait for survivors to get totem-horny and you've got everybody exposed, op toxic cheap trash baby killer im quitting the game
but it is powerful enough to warrant a nerf because the devs have shown they will make changes for the health of the game so we have gone from tumor a to tumor b which wasn't as big as tumor a but as tumor a is no longer there its a better one to set our sights on now
I don't think all of this was intended I think most of it was just how it ended up, which is easily abusable and versatile
and when I say easily I am refering to the fact it requires little to no skill to use much like how survivors think spirit takes little to no skill to use, thats right im calling dead hard the spirit of survivor perks
Don't worry I don't run haunted grounds so I don't have anything to worry about that second part
this is true
.... Except Dead Hard can be baited out of most survivors once you realize they have it.
It's one of the few meta-perks that has viable counter play. There's no reason to touch it at this time.
baited out in most situations means it would have been useless anyway, still works as a free second chance button most of the time anyway
That’s exactly it, single player design. The kind of busted dodge button you would use against an enemy A.I.
It makes killers less fun to play thats the issue with it. Good hatchet throw or harpoon shot? Doesnt matter. Good blink or rush? Doesnt matter. It just makes you question why you bother putting in effort as killer when survivors can dodge it all, and since they would have gone down without DH it truly is a third health state