The meta has to change
Just talking about SOLO survivor.
The last meta perk was released in 2017! with dead hard on David. All other past that one, are niche perks that are not frequently used. The 9 metaperks (DS, Adrenalin, Unbreakable, BT, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Self Care, Spine Chill, Iron Will) are much better used in SWF, because who needs kindred / bond if you have voicecom? Nobody!
On the other hand, aura reading perks like kindred, bond together, aftercare would just be much better on solo survivors, but most people refuse to change that, even when it ultimately would be better for them and helps a lot to survive.
From the 9 metaperks, only 1! is not for protecting your own butt. I thought that was a team game? Not "every man for himself"!
The solution would either be, nerfing the meta perks to the ground or better buffing the "niche" perks to a good level, where people really begin to question: Are those meta perks really that essential? Nah, i go for kindred / bond / empathy and so on.
Just to explain how "mediocre" some meta perks really are: You remember much more the times they actually helped you, but you forget about the games where you haven't to use it at all and other perks would have been much better for you and your teammates.
DS = No tunneling / camping? - Wasted perkslot
Adrenalin = Didn't made it to the endgame? - Wasted perkslot
Unbreakable = No slugging? - Wasted perkslot if not combined with DS and then only if you got tunneled / the quicker recovery speed could help sometimes
Self Care = Damn use bond or aftercare to find someone else or plunders + pharmacy (or only plunders if you want to try your luck) to collect a medkit, it heals you quicker.
BT = No camping? - Wasted perkslot, because kindred is better
The other 4 are much better than these ones.
Just go out, take off the meta perks and play a couple dozen games without them and look if you really do worse without them.
And i know somebody will join the discussion with: Nice try killer main, now that we don't use the meta perks anymore, you can free tunnel and camp!
Comments
I've always wanted to see the people who rely on the same 4 'Meta' perks actually remove them, and use something else and see if their skills still work out. I'd guess a vast majority would crumble without them. I personally used a few of them once, and felt they hindered me far more than anything. They all just felt so lazy and unskilled to use, or 'Crutches' maybe. It felt like I could mess up but have a quick fix which personally I don't like. If I messed up then I can learn from that mistake. But using a Perk to fix that mistake isn't teaching me anything, beyond I can just press a button and boom, I'm free.
Oh, also 'Git gud killer main' /s 😄
Meta change please, it's been yearssss.
As @Mikeasaurus mentioned, I'd be extremely curious to see a weekend with all second chance perks removed (aka the meta) and see how it effected the survival rates. I bet the difference in stats would be huge.
The issue with that is a lot of survivors get carried by their perks and get placed at a higher rank then what they are supposed to be at and removing these perks would mean they will struggle against these strong killers and people who cant take a loss will just say ######### it and put the perks on back. People don't give themselves time to adapt to the new changes. I know it's a bit harsh but I was even like that with my DS and Dead hard and then I started experimenting with other builds. Lost 3-4 games, easy depip and then a steady climb from there.
Just give more time to your new perks. One game doesn't tell you everything about them.
There is a lot of good survivor perks. Not overpowered. Just good. All new survivor perks are not bad. They're just not as strong as meta. Meta needs to go if you want to see diversity
Something that could work is that survivors who have unique perks, are the only ones that use those perks. Combined with some general perks you can choose from. That way you'll see alot of different builds.
Also, the rift is basicly an indirect counter to Meta perks. Wish we had more of that.
I think that should say something about the perks and the game right there if that's the case.
That's a sign of a problem.
I would go further and say a weekend without any perks.
I think that could be fun and interesting
So you are saying perks > skill
Oh I'd love that. I'd be very interested to see the stats.
Heck even just make it a PTB so it won't effect people who don't want to participate.
The only reason I lean towards more select perks at a time is then we can see more specifically each perks impact. When we throw out so many it makes the data a little less applicable in other words.
I'd also like a separate weekend where NOEDs turned off. This data would be very significant I expect.
I'd say if people seriously quit over something that silly then that definitely solidifies them as being "crutch" perks because that would indeed be implying that they think perks are greater than skill lol
Well,using a PTB just for that won't work.There wouldn't be enough players willing to try such an experiement.
Also,the ranks would probably differ a LOT,which would hurt the data even more.
"There wouldn't be enough players willing to try such an experiement."
I feel like the truth of that statement should be a bit telling as well lol
I do see the issues with the PTB variant though. I can see people throwing a fit on live.
This is really telling of serious game issues if it would cause that much of a problem as a community reaction. There shouldn't be any perks that people "feel" are that required to throw a fit over or quit because of. Note that I said "feel" btw, in other words not in actuality.
So if the devs feel the reaction would be so bad that they wouldn't want to try for risk of upsetting people, then they should realize there's a problem as that shouldn't be the case.
It would be interesting as well to see which killers abused this and tunnelled everyone as well as who still decided not to tunnel.
Maybe a week without addons? See which killers really need them or which are hardly affected?
I'd like to see that as well.
It's not an issue with perks but in the players mindset to use those which will give them a more competitive edge. Casual players tend to mix up perks a lot more as they don't care as much about the outcome.
When it comes to dbd being a team game it is and it isn't. The game does not reward a solo player for more getting out and its designed to be survive together or alone, save others or be selfish much like in horror movies.
if you look at the meta then Survivors tend to use perks which help prolong a chase or stop them from being found/caught.
Killers use perks to slow the game down and help find survivors.
It's a double edged sword as it doesn't matter how good other perks are Because these ones help ones personal interest more so the only way to change that is to make the game more team orientated but that may be detrimental to the game itself.
We only have to look at others games that have came out in this genre where team play is a must, they have all but failed as they only really work with pre made groups. We have to then think that DBD has been the most successful possibly because they make team play more of a choice.
I'm consistently in Red Ranks as survivor (and I know ranks mean very little but I do consider myself to be actually good at the game)
My main build is: BT, We'll Make It, Inner Strength, and a 4th perk that rotates between Saboteur and For the People
Only one of those perks is for me and the rest are to help the team.
Now that being said, sometimes those meta perks people complain about so much ARE essential based on how a majority of killers play. If anyone believes that killers are going to not tunnel because no one has DS, they clearly haven't played DBD and don't know this community. Killers tunnel harder when there's no DS in the game.
Sometimes you get tired of getting slugged and Unbreakable is a counter to that.
Sprint burst.... is trash tbh and I've never liked it. Always preferred Lithe as my exhaustion perk but to each their own. My point is, I don't use most of the meta perks, but I understand why they become necessary.
Likewise, I would love to stop seeing NOED, BBQ, Sloppy Butcher, Thanataphobia, Corrupt Intervention, etc but I also know that despite how annoying and repetitive these perks are, they have their purposes.
Need:
Trapper
Wraith
Trapper and Wraith without addons would get destroyed unless they camp the first one hooked. Maybe if you play on "not otzdarva" level you could do something, but that depends on the survivors you get.
Isn’t power struggle a meta perk? What even is a meta perk, idk what it has been since I joined dbd a year ago..
There are "less" meta perks for killers. I did not finish my personal research, because blight came out and one meta perk came with him.
After that, it allready seemed to fall off, with thana / sloppy / infectious fright next on the list.
It would be good because it would tell the devs which killers need addons based it and which could use certain addons nerfed
Interesting how you only mentioned survivor perks as if Killers aren't relying on the same 5 or 6 meta perks themselves.
Ruin / Undying / BBQ / Pop / Sloppy
I do agree generally. If you are facing the same perks 80% of time, they are just powerful crutches.
Because the game is about survivors (solo) and not about killer.
I think it's pretty obvious why I mentioned one side more than the other.
While the killer perk pool is small and should be larger it's still much more diverse than the survivor meta.
The survivor meta is marked around multiple second chances that aren't needed and make up for bad plays. The killer meta actually has some variety from slow down perks, to information perks, to chase perks. A good killer vs good survivors you will still lose the game even with fast chases simply through gen speed which is why you see lots of slow down. IE you can lose even if you weren't outplayed. So what is dictating the meta for each side is very different. That is another reason I mentioned one and not the other.
Another thing is that we've actually seen a couple new killer perks come into the meta. Not a lot and it should be more, but it's still more than the zero change the survivor side has had in years.
Most people behave like they couldn´t play without specific perks. But this is just ridiculous. Play some matches without your meta perks and enjoy them.
What exactly does BT do for you, when you are the one getting camped? Kindred would show all other survivors each other and the killer, so it's much better.
It would be terrible. Survivors playing immersed and killers camping the first hook in the middle of a 3 gen.
I don't think it would happen every game though.
Nonetheless i still think it would be an interesting experiment to see how much perks influence kill/escape rate
Dead Hard and Sprint Burst are the best exhaustion perks in the game. There's a reason they're meta.
BT is also good in pretty much every game.
Everything is is probably a bit overrated.
I went against survivors like this, all were running meta DS+UB with other things but since i didn't tunnel i didn't notice.
I legit thought i was going against a swf with like rank 20's in their group as only 1 player was decent not good decent and they all were in red ranks. Just goes to show that ranks are meaningless when you can get carried by perks and coordination.
This. I see people saying how survival rates would drop without "meta perks" but so would a lot of kills if "meta perks" were removed on the killer side.
That wouldn’t make sense to do since they can already examine the results of matches with no “second chance perks” so just disabling them for a weekend would be a waste of time.
If you say well they did it for bloodlust why not for survivor perks biased devs I say this. Bloodlust is present in every game as a mechanic, to get results on how it affects gameplay means they must disable it.
"That wouldn’t make sense to do since they can already examine the results of matches with no “second chance perks” so just disabling them for a weekend would be a waste of time."
When was the last time you had a match without a single second chance perk? I can't even think of one in the past 6 months.
The only way you're doing this is if you look at a rank 20 or grey rank match which is basically irrelevant information.
Zero second chance perk matches are essentially non existent. You might get lucky and find a few with only some second chance perks, but none? Not happening.
Well, the game is designed for killers to win chases. You are faster and have special attacks or abilities that allow you to, lunge, sneak, range or, simply mind game the survivors. So these survivor perks like, Dead Hard, Sprint burst, Decisive Strike are meant to prolong the chase and slow the killers progress down.
I say, nerf the meta all around, both sides. Behavior has all the data on which perks are loaded the most. Obviously meta, so just nerf them. Make DS time window shorter. Make Ruins regression less powerful. Make undying not reveal survivors. Make borrowed time shorter, ect.
These perks, all of them can easily be made less effective.
My prefered survivor build is Breakout / Mettle of Man / Sabotage / Dead Hard. It's honestly the most fun I have playing DBD. I use Dead Hard to milk extra swings out of the killer and, I usually end up dead but, the saves are too much fun!
Your personal experience doesn't reflect on the rest of the player pool. Specifically you mention not seeing a match without a single second chance perk. That might be true but cannot be reflective of the server you are playing off of. Also it can't be matched across every matchmaking server. Because the perks are optional, they can isolate the results of matches to the specific parameters they want to examine. Such as red ranks or grey ranks.
I'm totally down with your initial point of let's change the meta fully for both sides.
However, the way you speak of each sides perks implies they are both meta because they're too good. Most the survivor meta second chance perks are way too strong. However, something like Ruin isn't even strong, it's just being held on by Undying.
IE most survivor perks are meta because they're ridiculously good. While most killer meta perks aren't ridiculously good, they're just the best option available. Bar a couple exceptions, but generally speaking.
My point is that the meta each side has is because of 2 different things.
Survivors meta is held because of perks that are too strong and blow all the other perks out from being considered.
Killer meta perks aren't because they blow all the other perks out. Most the perks are just bad and they're picking what little there is.
IE we need more killer perks brought up and we need those few overbearing survivor perks brought down to change the meta. This is also generally speaking. There are still quite a bit of survivor perks that also needs buffing as well.
Im up for changing the meta perks but if you nerf them you have to buff the rest or deal massive nerfs to Killers to compensate. Main problem is most Survivor perks are esentially trash, especially the newer ones, Id rather play with no perks than use stuff like Visionary or Red Herring...
Visionary is at least useful in indoor maps, so you find the gens much easier. If you combine it with "better together" it's even better. But on outdoor maps, it's not useful and maps are random, unless you use an offering.
As i said, 2017 was the last meta perk released. All other perks after that, are mediocre or situational at best.
I’d actually put infectious fright pretty high on the list. Instadown snowbally killers use it a lot. Same with M&A. STBFL is universally great on m1 killers. To the point of where I’d say it’s more meta than Nurses.
Though, I would say the only true meta killer perks are Pop, Corrupt, Ruin, and Undying. The meta shifts a good bit from killer to killer. Like for a Spirit Stridor is meta, but not great on other killers. I’m All Ears is whatever... Until a Nurse or PH uses it.
Nah its not that useful once you have played for a few hours, Hawkins has somewhat fixated gen spawns, Haddonfield, Lery and The Game tell you where gens are located with the enviroment (lights flickering and closed doors), only in Midwich there are no visual cues and is a torture to play anyway. Visionary is only useful for your 50 first hours in this game, Id rather go without a perk than using Visionary and get laughed off in the post game screen...
And yes, I do agree the perks after 2017 are really... meh to say the least, people (especially Killer mains) are always complaining about the meta and begging for nerfs but they dont realize Survivors dont really have much else to chose.
Nice try killer main, now that we don't use the meta perks anymore, you can free tunnel and camp!
Here's how I find diversity in builds as Survivor. I have around 400 hours in the game. Survivor main.
Prestige and keep leveling. Play the low level survivors you have without all the perk options. I enjoy this early game survivor or, after I just prestige. It's like, make something work mode.
After you unlock a lot of perks and combos you can set things up to help you clear rituals and achievements. If I need to pop totems, I run a locker build, Quick and Quiet / Head On / Inner Strength. Bring a map to track bones.
If I need to do gens and coop I set up Prove Thyself / Streetwise / Better Together. Bring a toolbox, ect.
Decisive Strike / Unbreakable / Borrowed Time / Dead Hard build is powerful. It's a build of second chances, I personally don't run it. I will use thes perks individually or mix match them but, the entire build is a major crutch and, it's play value has no long term appeal to me.
The first 3 perks are top notch in SWF, but as i said, as solo player others would provide much more info. I played maybe 20 games with those out of who knows how much. Dead Hard is definitely the best survivor perk, even when he doesn't work always bc "hit detection" bad.
the meta for solo will change when they buff other survivor perks to be more useful (aka never).
You think Kindred is useless in Voice? What?
While kindred is a good perk. BT is still infinitely more valuable. It's an insurance perk and not many perks behave like that.