Pig rework ideas, lets all try to come up with one
@UncleStabby seems eager for a pig rework as well, so I thought it would be nice and fun to create a thread about it. I have been playing and enjoying a lot of pig and wraith lately which explains why I like posting threads for them. We should all put our minds together and try to see what we can come up with for the Pig. Sorry if this has become repetitive, but I really think
First, let me lay down the basics. The Pig has Reverse Bear Traps (RBTs) to slow down survivors and stealth to sneak up on survivors. The ambush can be used in a chase and get some pretty nasty hits if you know what you are doing.
So her RBTs are for the slowdown, and her ambush for stealth and chase potential.
What are her strengths?
- Her ambush; Can be used in some tiles to get hits you otherwise would not have normally.
- Her stealth; Using it and then uncrouching to gain initial distance on survivors working on gens to get a hit is pretty nice.
- Her RBTs; Can slow down the game because it encourages survivors to get them off instead of doing generators.
- Her low skill cap; She doesn't require too much skill to play. Her ambush is actually really easy to use, like oni's special attacks you just have to feel it out over a game or two. Anyone could play her and do just fine.
- Her height; her height allows her to mind game at a few more loops. Not exactly game-changing, but it is a strength.
What are her weaknesses?
- No special ability for map mobility. (worse on certain maps)
- The RNG aspect to her power.
What is her unique strength?: What I mean by this is what ability does the Pig have that no other killer does? Her RBTs of course. Her RBTs can slow down and pressure survivors off of generators without her being in a chase with them. People seem to overlook this incredible ability of the Pig, and for a good reason (the RNG aspect to her traps). A survivor with a trap is heavily encouraged to focus on the trap rather than generators.
So we have a killer who has built-in slowdown and better chase potential than the average killer. But what is holding her back from being higher on the tier list? (probably B tier).
The RNG aspect of her traps is what holds her back. The amount of slow down you will get can fluctuate massively throughout games. You could slow down survivors for the whole game and kill everyone with ease, or you can have them get the trap off on their first attempt and have them tbag you at the exit gates. It feels bad man.
So this is where we all can come in. It might be challenging, but I think we can come up with a balanced concept of the Pig's possible new power (mainly the RBT part). We have to take away the RNG aspect while still allowing the Pig to pressure survivors without being in a chase.
Also, we know that the devs will probably not work on the Pig for a really long time if at all. What is a small temporary buff or change you would give to the Pig that would help in the meantime?
Mine is to always guarantee that the first jigsaw box searched will never get the trap off.
Comments
The RNG of her traps is not what is holding her back.
Yes they should function how they did previously for end game collapse and yes they should have their gone on first box removed.
That said, what's holding Pig back is her trash crouch/ambush. 99% of the time you'd get a hit with her ambush you could have just played the loop normally and got the hit as well. Not to mention failing to land the ambush is actually punishing whereas the ladder is not. IE it's almost never worth using her ambush. You're better off just uncrouching for an m1, that's poor killer design. Her crouch view point is also still way too low, she can't even see above grass.
On top of those trap changes, she needs straps at base, remove the roar on her ambush or at least put it at the very end, increase the speed on it slightly, and raise the view point on her crouch. The ambush is just too predictable since you hear her crouch before and the roar that comes with it. This makes it way too easy to avoid or just move tiles as soon as you hear her.
Lastly she needs an addon overhaul as most of them are terrible. (Rule Set #2 at base please)
Current Pig is just a basic m1 killer with a little bit of slow down and mediocre stealth.
I cannot say this enough. A pig rework is HIGH on my priority list for needed changes in this game. (Thanks for the name-drop by the way, makes me feel loved)
RNG for traps is horrible, but like @Blueberry said, its not what's holding her back.
I guess the biggest problem with the RBTs is that they don't generate enough STRESS. I feel like it should be a game changing thing to have on placed on your head. I want it to instill true panic in a survivor, which would not only make her power more worthwhile, but also align more with Saw's deadly theme.
The problem with Pig is that her chase power is extremely weak, in exchange for a slowdown power that is probably the best in the game with an added lethality unseen by ANY killer.
Her stealth is the weakest stealth in the game. While crouched, she moves slower than Nurse. Only Ghostface really moves as slow as her while crouched, and Ghostface doesn't even NEED to walk while crouched most of the time. The difference between Nurse and Pig while crouched is greater than the difference between Hag/Huntress/Deathslinger and all the normal speed killers! That's right. Nurse without blinking would beat a Crouched Pig in a race by more than Pig uncrouched would beat Hag in a race.
As for her Ambush attack, it's far too easy to counter. And it's not particularly useful in loops if survivors know how to face it (the problem is, most don't. Which is fine, until you run into the ones that do.) Mostly you just have to run away from a loop if a Pig starts her ambush. And it's pretty punishing when she misses unless she has the addons. She pretty much has no anti-looping power against any survivor who knows how to counter her.
In chase, Pig is basically an M1 killer with a weak power. She can kill her terror radius at the expense of any speed whatsoever. (Keep in mind that in a race between Tier 1 Myers, Crouched Pig, and Tier 2 Myers, Tier 1 Myers time would be closer to Tier Myers 2 time than to Crouched Pig's Time) And she has a dash attack that can catch people off guard if they don't know how to deal with it.
If you're playing Pig and you're getting downs, you can start to snowball from there. It can massively slow the game down. But if you're having trouble with Pig, you're not going to have a good time at all. Her true power only comes into play once she gets someone down. And then it's pretty limited not just to before the gens get done, but you only have 4 RBT's too. The tradeoff, of course, is that these things can be extremely lethal.
What Pig needs is more tradeoff. Some anti-looping, a buff to her movement speed while crouched (seriously, spine chill already MURDERS her stealth worse than any of the other Stealth killers) but less lethality in her traps, and less RNG. Her dash needs to be tweaked a bit to make it less punishing, and more rewarding without needing to use add-ons.
Accidentally deleted my own comment. Rip. But yeah, she needs a rework, no doubt.
@Blueberry is absolutely right though, the RNG isn't exactly what's holding her back. The trap needs to induce more panic, generate more stress than it currently does. There are tons of ways to do this, of course (Such as even inactive traps preventing survivor escape until removed, for example.)
"Little pig, little pig,.. lettt me innn...."
"Not from a hairy misogynist"
hue hue hue
Pig doesn’t need a rework, she’s a decent killer.
mmmmmm
I just want her ambush changed in some sort of way, like someone else said, remove the roar, or atleast make an ADDON that can remove the roar.
I sort of disagree with the RNG part. Imagine if a survivor couldn't escape after the last generator like before. They could either search the first box and get the trap off, or they could search the fourth one. This makes the power of her RBTs very inconsistent. RNG in dead by daylight is unhealthy, just look at trapper even with his buff. Suvivors still have the ability to escape a trap on their first try. Maybe it isn't her main issue, but it is an issue nonetheless.
I do agree with the ambush though. The stealth you get from it, I think it is fine because it is only for creeping up on survivors healing or working on a generator when you know their exact location. The ambush can feel very bad to use in a lot of tiles, it can work at some but not all. Any sentient survivor will make sure you are without a dash attack at almost all loops.
She also needs a complete addon overhaul, same as demo. Her addons are just terrible. Combat straps base kit would be great. However, I am unsure about the rules set #2 because that addon actually encourages survivors to do generators and with her current RNG based traps it can either work well or suck.
So to make her ambush viable in a chase, we have to make it less predictable and less punishing with a better POV.
Make it base instead of an addon if either one, making a killer addon dependent is poor design. Just look at Wraith and windstorm.
Idea #1: Making the ambush less punishing and predictable to use in a chase while changing her traps to be less RNG reliant
Her RBTs - The Pig starts with 4 RBTs. If a generator is completed while a survivor is wearing a RBT, the RBT is activated. While activated, the survivor wearing one will have to search 2 jigsaw boxes to get it off. If a generator is completed while an RBT is already active, increase the number of jigsaw boxes that a survivor will have to search by 1. Does not happen a second time with the same trap on the same survivor. The duration of an active trap could be reduced to 2 minutes since we have one less jigsaw box to search.
I am not sure how to incorporate the 4th box in, maybe we could reduce the number of boxes to 3 normally. Having a survivor search 4 boxes seems pretty sucky. These changes could make her RBTs work on more than one survivor because they would have to think twice about finishing that generator while someone has a trap on them. The distance of each jigsaw box could also be adjusted to be far, but not literally on the other side of the map far. Just enough to be fair for the killer and the survivors. The ambush changes might still need some changes though.
What do you have to add or change?
I feel like her stealth is fine. She already has a lot of other things going for her. Giving her full-on stealth would be a bit too strong if she was reworked properly. Her stealth is to creep up on survivors when you know their exact location.
For spine chill, all you have to do is look away when approaching survivors. I will admit though, it is pretty stupid how spine chill activates when you are "undetectable". I would patch it out.
I main the piggy and the trap RNG is the least of my concerns, on average its 2.5 searches and since you have 4 traps your average box searches will be close to the 2.5 number most of the time, sometimes you even get a satisfying headpop if you mess a bit with the trapped survivor.
What i hate about her is her crouching time. I almost nerver crouch with pig because it takes a ######### eternity and if you want to make a rush you give out your position, wich makes it only usable on small pallet loops, very very niche. I think the needed change to pig is make her crouching the same as Ghostface and please remove the crouch/uncrouch knife sound wich also warns the survivors you are there.
She is not a stealth killer right now, she is just a game stalling m1 killer with potential to be a bit better in some loop and it's a bit sad :(
I don't think she should be a full-on stealth killer since her power is already full of other things. You use her stealth to creep up on survivors when you know for a fact where they are. The stealth is fine, but her ambush isn't. Assuming she is buffed, she would have a good chasing power, game slow down, and full-on stealth base kit. That would just be way too much.
The RNG should be the main concern with the ambush. On average doesn't really mean 2.5 searches, I feel like most of the time when I am against a pig, I get it off the first or sometimes the second try, and no that is not an exaggeration. Randomness in a game like dbd is unhealthy especially since it is an asymmetrical game already. Like I said before, just look at trapper. Even with his new incoming buffs, it will still allow a survivor to get their trap off their first try. This is inconsistent and unreliable.
I would love a very rare, or ultra rare add on that turns RBT's into Shotgun Collars. But I agree pig needs love she's my favorite.
It would be cool to see that trap in the game. But I don't think it would work out with BHVR.