Lock this thread please!
MY DBD HOURS: Roughly 600 Hours
Problem: In Spoiler
(What's Dead by Daylight?)
Let's look at Nurse and Billy:
-They are used a lot at high red ranks because they are stronger than a single survivor. Nurse is so strong that a single survivor only has a quarter of her strength and she is the ONLY killer that makes Dead by Daylight a asymmetrical horror game since a single survivor can't just 1v1 her - They need teamwork! I'm stressing the word "TEAMWORK" so hard because that should be the ONLY way for a group of survivors to overwhelm the killer. A single survivor shouldn't be able to overwhelm the killer.
Solution: (Make killers four times as strong than a single survivor & give survivors more stealth opinions)
Yes, you heard that, make killers four times as strong than a single survivor! How can we do that exactly? Well a good starting point is to make killers less add-on dependent since a killer shouldn't need a add-ons to be viable at high ranks! Another point is make killers have some sort of effect in a chase since their goal is to end a chase as fast as possible and punish a survivor for not hiding! The only time I see a survivor hiding is when it is nurse because she WILL punish you for not being stealthy which it should be with every killer! Now, give survivors more stealth opinions, perks, and environment hiding areas so they can avoid getting into a chase! Survivors need to be afraid of the killer since the killer is four times as strong than a single survivor!
Comments
i hate to say it Nickenzie but even though you are mostly right, i think you need to at least double or triple your hours to get a good say about DBD.
I just need to comment on one thing
"Stealth is boring for the killer and survivor"
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!
Some of us enjoy the cat and mouse of stealth. FFS, my main Ace build is centered around avoiding the killer above all else. And as killer? If people are playing "immersed" I actually respect that. As a killer player, I prefer feeling feared above all else - and it's hard to feel feared when people are going out of their way to get your attention and hold said attention. If people are hiding from me, then I feel feared. I'm satisfied (and usually amazed) if they get out without me seeing them and will give them a heartfelt "GG" at the end.
Stop assuming that everybody hates stealth in this game when people like me exist!
your point? ive netted over 2000 hours on console and another 1500 on PC so its not hard to put time in.
If your theory is that survivors are "working together" and thus the killer needs to be stronger, then you misjudge almost every survivor in the game. The only way survivors could work together is to give them A LOT more information. People complain to high heavens about SWF groups using coms, and then compare that to the killer.
YES SWF groups are going to be WAY WAY more powerful to play against because they have 4 times as much information, especially if they've learned the maps. BUT, if you don't have SWF and coms then its basically every man for themselves.
I could buy giving killers more powers if you ALSO gave survivors better standard ways of communicating in the game. Not just bull ######### points and pulls or hook gymnastics. Let my character actually SCREAM on the hook "KILLER NEAR BY!" because thats whats going on in coms w/ SWF groups, and its (and i believe this) not how the game was designed, but its how it will forever be played since the adoption of SWF.
To be clear though, I don't WANT to need to use coms to win. I only want to do coms when playing with my 3 other friends who play this game. I don't want to need to do voice chat with randoms in order to play a good game because random people suck to talk to. I'm 36 years old, the LAST thing I want to do is be voice chatting with a 13 year old.
IMO make the game about survivor team work and that should INCLUDE communication, but SWF and voice coms shouldn't be needed. We need more in game tools.
Hell, even seeing the team mate load outs of perks would be helpful.
Also, many people on this forum stress the frustrations with playing at high ranks. I REALLY wish BHV would release some statistics about what % of players actually play that high. We're the exceptions here. We're a very small % of the community. Your average player is likely hovering in the teens and wins some games and looses some games. They don't optimize, and don't use voice coms and SWF much.
THIS is likely the reason why they aren't buffing or nerfing or doing all the ######### people on this forum are asking for. Simply put: For most players, everything is working out just fine and balanced.
Would you please stop making this assertion? I'm sorry that survivors have so deeply scarred your psyche. I don't know where they touched you or what they said to you. But no matter how many times you repeat yourself, it won't make this statement true. Just because you don't get 4 kills every game doesn't mean the game is broken.
A couple of things.
A survivor can loop YOU for a good while, Nickenzie.
DH and DS can be played around.
A group with flashlights usually play right into a killers hands, just outplay them.
Sweaty SWF's groups are so rare it's irrelevant.
Most SWF's are just friends wanting to fvck around and have fun.
The game has problems, but nothing like what killers on forums would have you believe, just because they get wrecked from time to time.
Off topic, but congrats on post 666. Don't reply, you'll ruin it! Also, agree with what you are saying here. I play as a rank 1 killer on ps4 and I feel pretty good about where the game is at now. Most killers are in a pretty good place at the moment. Pallets are not as oppressive as they once were. Many of the window loops have been addressed. Most my games are pretty fun. Are things 100% perfect? No and I don't expect things ever will be considered perfect for everyone. But killers certainly don't need a 300% power increase as has been suggested in this thread.
"DH and DS can be played around."
DH is mostly used incorrectly by most survivors but when it is used correctly, Lord it's great perk but I'm okay with it being like this - It requires skill to use.
Lol, you are defending DS? Ok, I don't need to say much about that comment.
"A group with flashlights usually play right into a killers hands, just outplay them."
I can usually bait survivors to come out of their positions or face a wall but sometimes you don't down a survivor near a wall and sometimes you can't bait them. Again, rank 1 survivors play almost flawless and they know their stuff!
"Sweaty SWF's groups are so rare it's irrelevant.
Most SWF's are just friends wanting to fvck around and have fun."
Just because it's rare doesn't mean it's not a problem. 4 Survivors working together should bring the game to a 50/50 but since survivors are kinda OP, it's more like 50/200. I agree with you on the second sentence, I often play with my friends to have fun and relax.
That's the problem, a few loops allow 3 survivors to get 2 generators done. Imagining how many generators you will have left when you're on the 4th chase, assuming you didn't have to tunnel and was playing fair. Additionally I'll add on, I don't see a lot of teamwork in doing generators because you're just holding a button for 80 seconds, teamwork at it's finest! I suggest to make it harder to work as a team because doing generators = Instant teamwork. Survivors need to do more than just generators to have teamwork in my opinion.
"What is the goal here?"
A survivor 25% of your objective shouldn't allow the killer's to lose 40% of their objective without no control, don't forget that they have 3 phases so you'll need to chase them two more times assuming you tunnel and if you don't, you'll have to start over! So, the goal is if the killer is 400% stronger than a single survivor, chases would end quicker and survivors would need to do more saving "Teamwork" to keep everyone alive so they can keep doing generators "Teamwork". See where I'm going?
"How do you propose to handle the snowball effect?"
Again, my idea isn't perfect... it's like the emblem system! It'll stay on the PTB and it will get tweaked over time to help balance that!
"4-times-stronger-than-now killer supposed to be balanced once the game goes on?"
Each survivor gets a 33% action boost with 5 generators since you're slitting the power equally to every survivor. In other words, you're given a bonus to account for the loss.
Okay, I'm not insulting you and this is all we got...we're on a forum, behind our monitors, genius. What do you want me to do? Don't twist this into me "being toxic" because I disagree with you and your silly ramblings.
At no point did I defend DS. Now you're just putting words in my mouth. It can be played around.
Rank 1 survivors do not play, "mostly flawless". Seriously? There's differing skill across ALL ranks. Get a grip.
If you can't play around flashlights with the new pick up times, you're just not good. Simple. Which is fine, just don't complain about something you can avoid or outplay.
You keep bringing up these numbers, like they mean anything. 50/200? Just stop
That statement is implying that I'm bad in general, I'm not bad. Don't assume that I'm bad, or in fact anyone for that matter... It's just rude. Thank you.
"At no point did I defend DS. "
DS has little counter play, especially when you're not warned about it. You saying that DS has a counter play is you indirectly defending it, the perk is way too strong and needs to get toned down.
"Rank 1 survivors do not play, "mostly flawless". Seriously? There's differing skill across ALL ranks. Get a grip."
Do you play killer at rank 1, not trying to sound rude but any person would say rank 1 is just insane and survivors are extremely good, not saying every survivor is but majority are. Isn't that the reason why killers use Ruin because rank 1 survivors can keep a killer running for a while?
"If you can't play around flashlights with the new pick up times, you're just not good."
I'll leave my quote here since you didn't read it and just ignored it instead. It's in bold for you my fellow fog traveler!
"You keep bringing up these numbers, like they mean anything. 50/200? Just stop
Do you really want me to tell why they are so important? It's a yes or no question.
The problem is that developers need to get their head back in the game. Literally.
@Nickenzie Just an FYI. In my opinion, somebody saying "Survivors can loop you for a good while" is not an implied insult as even the best of the best among us can get looped by master survivors. It's just a fact of the game, nothing else.
It's funny how they think 1 survivor should equal in strength to a killer, I'm literally about to ask my friend Peanits to lock this thread due to how many survivor mains whining instead of actually discussing the problem with me!
Personally it is the maps that make or break it. The design of pallets or how many you can have can extend chases for prolonged times. (Non mind Game able loops... )
I think you would be surprised by how many people disagreeing with you would consider themselves "survivor mains". The issue isn't that no one will discuss the problem with you. No one even knows what "problem" you are talking about! You just keep making up numbers that don't mean anything! It's hard to have a discussion when someone is so vague. When you say the killer should be 400% stronger, what does that mean? Precisely what are you asking for? What does 400% stronger mean to Nickenzie?
I agree: It is now time for this thread to be locked. You go about in reply after reply telling people how rude they are for the slightest assumption or comment you don't like, and then turn around and do the exact same thing right above.
You're hypocritical at best, a poor-man's troll at worst. Yeah, I agree, it's time we contact a Mod and get this thing locked.
Final Note: I'm completely okay with people disagreeing with me, that's all cool but if you're gonna whine and not tell me the problem, how can we gain ground on the subject at hand? Look at the first comment in this thread! That right there said to me "Hey this forum isn't for me, people are just rude and don't tell me what's wrong!" Goodbye, I'm seriously not coming back!
I don't need television when I can just come here for entertainment!
You've made this thread now you have to stick with it.
We all know the problem with this game is camping if they dealt with that it would exlimate all the toxic behaviour in the game
This thread isn't really bad enough to be closed. And don't you think leaving over this is going overboard? I mean, I've seen a lot worse on these forums.
Posturing at best. I didn't get my own way you can't play with my toys anymore.(This is your classic rage quitter)
And that's all it is, too. I mean: Come on! It took them over 1,300 posts to realize what game forums are like? Really? They've been nothing but a drama queen through most of this thread.
Yeah, you are. I'm implying you are bad based on what you are saying here. I'm presuming you make mistake after mistake, like most killers on here and think it's the games fault, instead of learning or doing something better. Again, if so, it's not a problem that you're bad, it's a fun game to be enjoyed and shouldn't be taken seriously, just don't come to a forum to complain.
DS is bullsh!t. But it can be played around. There. Stop twisting my words.
Yes, I play killer at rank 1. With Freddy, Wraith, Trapper, Billy, Myers, Doc... Rank is not indicative of skill. 90% of games, I 4k and everyone has fun.
Sometimes you can play around them, sometimes you can't. So instead of saying, "I got outplayed" or, "I messed up there", or not doing another thing like slug...you say, "what about SWF's with flashlights", like they are a big deal and truly hinder you, instead of playing into your hands?
This thread should indeed be closed. Git gud Nickenzie. Yikes.
Selected 2 of the best replies:
Thx @Dreamnomad and @only1biggs for providing some common sense to this thread.
Guys. Holy #########! Calm down, everyone. He is mostly right about the stuff he said to be honest. All the survivors are crying about Aura perks and ######### like that but don't want to even the odds with killers. Killers play in a 1 v4 ratio so they should be equal to 4 survivors. They aren't, except if the survivors are bad and only make mistakes, even when making mistakes, survivors often still survive and even when they die they get a pip.
The problem I have with the whole a survivor should be 25% of a killer, is that it's far to generalized. Which Killer? Nurse? Because that will probably mean they're stronger than 25% against, say, Freddy or Leatherface. And how do you measure that power metric? Items? Add-ons? Perks? All of them? All of the possible combinations?
How do you measure that power metric versus individual player skill?
I'd love to see them on the balance team trying to figure all that out.
Instead, how about incremental steps to some Killer design points? Maybe make their power less add-on reliant. Perhaps tighten the Killer hitbox so looping isn't so annoying for people.
Freddy is very playable without addons