why did ruin got nerfed again?

Raz_

wasnt it because "too many killers got carried by it" ?

but after a year they released the undying + ruin + tinkerer combo

why havent they nerfed some survivor perk what gets abused here and there? no need to go into details about these perks.

why are maps either heavily killer or survivor sided what also carries people, YES some maps are so BS designed that you can get just carried by them.

devs why did you nerf ruin again?

Yamaoka

Ruin was nerfed/changed/reworked because experienced survivors would hit great skillchecks very frequently nullifying the hex to some degree whereas old Ruin would make matches unplayable for new-ish survivors.

The current version of Ruin has the same effect on new AND experienced survivors as its strength comes down to how frequently the killer manages to interrupt the repairs.

The change was pretty smart in this regard.

lucid4444

@Yamaoka said:

Ruin was nerfed/changed/reworked because experienced survivors would hit great skillchecks very frequently nullifying the hex to some degree whereas old Ruin would make matches unplayable for new-ish survivors.

The current version of Ruin has the same effect on new AND experienced survivors as its strength comes down to how frequently the killer manages to interrupt the repairs.

The change was pretty smart in this regard.

Can we copy and paste this response for tomorrow's thread?

lagosta

@Yamaoka said:

Ruin was nerfed/changed/reworked because experienced survivors would hit great skillchecks very frequently nullifying the hex to some degree whereas old Ruin would make matches unplayable for new-ish survivors.

The current version of Ruin has the same effect on new AND experienced survivors as its strength comes down to how frequently the killer manages to interrupt the repairs.

The change was pretty smart in this regard.

^^^^^

Old ruin totally smashed new players and did little to none against experienced survivors. It was just overall bad design.

SquirrelKnight

So they "fixed" it by making it useless at all points of the game. There fixed now NOONE can be challenged by it

lowiq

@SquirrelKnight said:

So they "fixed" it by making it useless at all points of the game. There fixed now NOONE can be challenged by it

Sounds more like an issue with your inability to apply pressure. I think it's pretty hard to deny the amount of value ruin gives when it's up.

Aneurysm

With old ruin if the stars aligned and you got both a good totem spot and survivors that couldn't hit greats you could pretty much ignore gens and spend as much time chasing an individual survivor as you liked.

New ruin and undying takes two perk slots and requires some actual input on your part into getting them off gens, one way or another.

SquirrelKnight

@lowiq said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1854928#Comment_1854928

Sounds more like an issue with your inability to apply pressure. I think it's pretty hard to deny the amount of value ruin gives when it's up.

It slowly regresses the generator without the need to kick it. Cool concept. Only really useful if you can keep survivors off if gens for an extended amount if time, so practically useless against survivors that spread out.

Its a late game hex perk so you have a strong likelyhood of it being destroyed before you even get to see the effects of it.

It is only useful-ish when combined with undying because it can help the perk remain alive at least till endgame so if you manage to get 3 close proximity gens you can try and keep pressure off.

Unfortunately ruin just doesnt have enough if a kick to be really viable.

What it does do successfully though is stop generator tapping. But that is a waste of a perk slot to stop gen tapping, which is a poor bandage fix at best

valvarez4

Ruin useless? How many times you have seen MoM since the “rework”?

Tsulan

@lowiq said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1854928#Comment_1854928

Sounds more like an issue with your inability to apply pressure. I think it's pretty hard to deny the amount of value ruin gives when it's up.

Survivors that want to complete gens, won't even notice the effect of ruin.

Almo

Ruin was changed for several reasons.

@Peanits said:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/409/320VJA64405N.png

Welcome to our Designer Notes, a series of blogposts presenting the fine details of upcoming design changes. Today, we’ll be going over the first update of 2020, which includes changes to The Doctor, the Gatekeeper Emblem, and Hex: Ruin. 

DOCTOR UPDATE 

In the next mid-chapter update, we will be changing core elements of The Doctor's gameplay. He's been a polarizing figure since his release, and we felt it was time to revisit his kit with an eye to making it less frustrating to play against him. We will keep his core identity as a Killer who shocks people with electricity and causes them to go insane, suffering several different kinds of afflictions and hallucinations. Some of his abilities and most of his add-ons will get an update pass. 

We identified a major source of irritation to be his Static Field. The problem is that The Doctor gets periodic notifications of Survivors' locations in his Terror Radius due to their Madness levels increasing passively. It's the lack of action needed on the part of The Doctor to find nearby Survivors that makes it feel annoying to play against. With that in mind, the update centers around removing Static Field and replacing it with another ability. 

The new ability replacing Static Field is called "Static Blast"; this is mapped to the Active Ability button. After charging the ability for a short duration, it releases a blast of static electricity throughout The Doctor’s entire Terror Radius. Any Survivors caught in the area of effect are shocked causing them to scream and acquire an amount of Madness. If their Madness level increases, they also reveal their location to The Doctor as usual. 

While charging Static Blast, The Doctor's movement is significantly reduced, and the ability has a long cooldown. The idea behind the design of Static Blast is to make it powerful as a location tool, but very difficult to use while in a chase, hence the limitations on its use. 

As Shock Therapy and Static Blast are now linked to separate inputs, we've removed the different Treatment and Punishment stances to improve the gameplay flow. The Doctor's base movement speed is still 4.6 m/s (the "regular" movement speed for most Killers), but he can now use Shock Therapy more easily as he doesn't have to switch stances to gain access to it. So we've added a brief pause after using Shock Therapy before he can attack or use another ability. 

One last thing we've addressed is the frustration of using Snap Out Of It to drop from Madness level III to Madness level II. After the update, missing a skill check during Snap Out Of It will cost the player 25% of their progress instead of resetting it entirely. Also, if they stop the interaction before it's complete, they will not lose their progress and will continue from where they left off on the next attempt. 

HEX: RUIN AND GATEKEEPER UPDATE  

The upcoming mid-chapter update will also include a major overhaul to Hex: Ruin, and an associated update to the Gatekeeper Emblem. Recent data show that Hex: Ruin is used in over 80% of all games in the red ranks, and across the entire userbase it appears in about 45% of all games. 

We took a close look at the perk to identify what makes it so frustrating to play against. Three key issues were identified: 

1. Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better. 
2. The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer. 
3. Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks. 

We also looked carefully to see how it functions as part of a Killer's loadout. Beyond the obvious desire to slow down generator repair, Hex: Ruin functions as one of the very few perks effective as slowing generator repair in the first couple of minutes of the Trial. This is important to Killers' rankings because the Gatekeeper Emblem highly rewards keeping as many of the 7 generators incomplete as they can for as long as possible. 

Because Hex: Ruin is one of the few tools a Killer has for getting an Iridescent Gatekeeper Emblem, the update needed to respect that. Just a straight-up nerf without considering the consequences for that Emblem wouldn't be a good plan. So before getting into the Hex: Ruin change, let's go over the Gatekeeper Emblem. 

Currently, Gatekeeper's underlying points are scored as a number of points per generator remaining to be repaired multiplied by which minute the match is in. Additional points are scored for any remaining generators at the end of the Trial. This provides much less of a reward to a Killer who loses three gens quickly, but then doggedly keeps the last few until the end of the match. 

The new version of Gatekeeper is simpler: one point is scored per generator remaining to be repaired per minute for the first nine minutes. At the end of the Trial, if both Exit Gates remain closed, additional points are scored. With less focus on keeping seven generators up, we can move on and change Hex: Ruin without making it significantly harder for Killers to do well in Gatekeeper. 

The new Hex: Ruin is simple: 

All Generators are affected by Ruin; if a Generator is not being worked on, it regresses at [1/1.5/2] times the normal regression rate. 

The Hex effect persists as long as the related Hex Totem is standing. 

This version of the perk has many benefits: 

• Survivors who are working on generators are unaffected as the perk no longer affects Skill Checks. 
• Killers must be active in pushing Survivors off generators to get value from it. 
• It is less useful in the early game, but very useful in the late game. Survivors now have a more interesting choice about when it is necessary to find and cleanse the Hex Totem. 

 

The changes outlined above, along with the Lery’s Memorial Institute rework, are slated for the mid-chapter update and will be available to test on the Player Test Build (PTB) starting tomorrow. Please be sure to let us know what you think once you’ve had a chance to try them out! 

1. Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better. 
2. The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer. 
3. Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.

These are not in order of importance.

Well after the update, we were playtesting a new Killer before their release, I think it was Blight. It was forked from a much older build, and had old Ruin in it. Every person in the playtest was either a game designer or QA, and we all agreed that it was a big improvement to the game overall that it was changed. And not just because of new players.

Ruin was not changed just because of new players. It was changed for several reasons, and the hideous experience new players had with it was one of them.

Ruin was not changed just because of new players. Ruin was not changed mostly because of new players. Ruin was changed because it was unhealthy for the game.

FFirebrandd

@SquirrelKnight said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1854933#Comment_1854933

It slowly regresses the generator without the need to kick it. Cool concept. Only really useful if you can keep survivors off if gens for an extended amount if time, so practically useless against survivors that spread out.

Its a late game hex perk so you have a strong likelyhood of it being destroyed before you even get to see the effects of it.

It is only useful-ish when combined with undying because it can help the perk remain alive at least till endgame so if you manage to get 3 close proximity gens you can try and keep pressure off.

Unfortunately ruin just doesnt have enough if a kick to be really viable.

What it does do successfully though is stop generator tapping. But that is a waste of a perk slot to stop gen tapping, which is a poor bandage fix at best

Considering the baseline regression is 25% of a single Survivor's repair speed, how is 75% of a single Survivor's repair speed possibly considered slow? A 99% generator will fully regress in about 320 seconds, a 99% generator will fully regress in about 108 seconds under the effects of Ruin. That is way faster.

Think of it this way... the survivors split up and do gens. You get a really fast down and hook on someone, so his gen is regressing. You find another person, now their gen is regressing. A third survivor now needs to rescue the guy on the hook so his generator starts regressing. Fourth survivor is now the only one repairing generators and the total amount of charges on generators is actually going down fairly quickly. It's going up by 1 c/s and going down by 0.75 * 3 or 2.1 c/s. Seriously... look at those numbers again. The total generator progress is NEGATIVE.

Does it effect Survivors who 0-100 Generators? No... but... that's why you as the killer with Ruin now need to go around and bother as many Survivors as you can as much and as often as you can. Don't like that playstyle? That's fine... there's other perks that might suite you better like Pop, Surge, Oppression, and Overcharge. That doesn't mean that Ruin is worthless.

woundcowboy

@Almo said:

Ruin was changed for several reasons.

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/117488/designer-notes-doctor-gatekeeper-hex-ruin

1. Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better. 
2. The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer. 
3. Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.

These are not in order of importance.

Well after the update, we were playtesting a new Killer before their release, I think it was Blight. It was forked from a much older build, and had old Ruin in it. Every person in the playtest was either a game designer or QA, and we all agreed that it was a big improvement to the game overall that it was changed. And not just because of new players.

Ruin was not changed just because of new players. It was changed for several reasons, and the hideous experience new players had with it was one of them.

Ruin was not changed just because of new players. Ruin was not changed mostly because of new players. Ruin was changed because it was unhealthy for the game.

How was it unhealthy for the game if experienced survivors could hit the skill check? Why do you cater to new survivor players and yet balance killers like Nurse around only the best killer players? It seems like a huge double standard to me.

Slashstreetboy

It´s like @Almo said, it´s more a rework than a nerf. Since it did effectively nothing against veteran Survivors, it´s actually better now in this regard, and at the same time it doesn´t destroy noob Survivors anymore, making the experience for them much more bearable ( starting in DBD is SO hard).

It also added a certain requirement of skill to get value out of it, I think they did a phenomenal job with the rework.

Raccoon

https://youtu.be/Bmz3KjuanQ0

:3