Why the game shouldn't be balanced around deathsquads
I've seen countless threads and posts of ppl complaining about deathsquads and that the game needs to be fairer so killers can consistently beat them. I understand that they are challenging and all but let me ask people who think these squads need nerfs this;
If the game was balanced so that majority of killers could decently and consistently beat these teams, then what's actually posing a challenge to you? What's stopping you from just winning everygame? And what's the difference between a 4man deathsquad and an infectious slugging nurse or a ruin undying blight? Sure these cannot be beated by ur average survivors/killers but doesn't that make sense? Why should an average or decent killer with a normal build be able to beat potentailly the most challenging and best teams in the game? It makes more than perfect sense to me that slugging infectious nurses stand a decent chance against these teams and vice verse, because if you were to nerf swfs, what's stopping these insanely strong killers and builds? Because a solo q team sure as heck ain't beating an infectious nurse.
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Why is it that if a game is asymmetrical that it shouldn't be balanced so both sides win 50% of the time when both sides are equal?
I keep linking that video because it explains my position perfectly, logically, and with evidence.
Why do you keep ignoring the position i post and actually tell me why it is wrong rather than just throwing out ridiculous ideas that because the game is asymmetrical one side should just always have an advantage?
Can you explain to me YOUR position? Why should one side win say, 75% of the time, assuming all players are of equal skill. Why should anyone bother playing such a game?
I don't believe balancing an asymmetrical game like this to be equal at the highest level is impossible.
But I DO believe it's going to be pretty damn close to do it in a good and satisfying way.
I see it like this. In a symmetrical game like DOTA, you can't make a change to "one side", because a change to one hero affects every player equally. There aren't any Radiant or Dire mains. Everyone has the exact same access to tools. But in an asymmetrical game like DbD, this isn't true-- each side is playing a drastically different game. And where the problem begins for me is the floor and the ceiling.
Run with my metaphor for a minute here. 0 is the absolute babiest you can be, just started the game. 100 is the apex of skill, utilizing your tools to its utmost power. In terms of Survivor and Killer gameplay, I would say the Survivor range goes from 0 to 100. Whilst Killer's range goes from, being very general, 20 to 80. I hope we can agree that at the equally lower levels, killers tend to dominate. The impetus to move the game forward and use the tools around you falls squarely on the survivors. If they don't run down the game's clock, it's open pasture for the killer.
Now as the skill level continues forward, the matches start to equalize. Everyone's got a good shot at winning. As it climbs to the peak, the survivors begin to outpace, but the killer still has a good chance if they're quick on their feet and their reads. But at the tippy top, the killer's reached his effective 'cap' whilst the survivors have climbed past it.
So, because of the game's asymmetrical nature, one side manages to have both lower lows and higher highs. This is where the major problem of balancing it at the highest level comes in. How could you even do it? Some perks need to be nerfed, or reworked, such as DS, OoO, Sprint Burst, Dead Hard, ect. But the main problem that's claimed to be had is game knowledge, that there simply isn't enough time. The objective of the survivor is too easy. Barring major, difficult and heavily contested overhauls of the entire objective of survivors, and likely a large part of the game, impacting this to bring that 80 to a 100 to match the Survivors is, unavoidably, going to bump that 20 to a 40.
Which will have the unfortunate side effect of making the learning parts of Survivor even more hell. What with solo queues, lower, medium and even high skill survivors suffer enough. It'd turn a lopsided, but hopeful match into a slaughter.
And I doubt Dweet and all his friends are gonna stick around for the couple hundred hours of massacres needed to start bridging the gap.
I'm not against the idea of balance at the highest level, but the game being asymmetrical means they're going to have a hell of a time doing it without overhauling most of the game or sacrificing everyone below the halfway point, and I don't envy the job of the Devs. But I can understand why you'd want it.
Which is why you don't use ruin on killers with zero map pressure/mobility.
I agree that pressuring survivors that spawned on 4 different gens is really hard though (would love to see a change to the eaery game that would spawn all 4 survivors together).
-That's rather hard to judge because most players in high ranks are pretty bad.I would say that if at least the killer player is decent then the majority of their games should be quite manageable
-It can be pretty good but the killer has to be really good at pressuring survivors of the gens (which is definetely not easy to do).If you can simply ignore ruin then the killer isn't good at pressuring.
-Good nurses have always been quite rare (at least on console)
As for billy,yeah he's kind of dead.Almost nobody seems to play him and good billys are basically unicorns at this point :(
-The thing with moris though is that almost all of the killers using it just used it to completely stomp the other team.If you saw a mori in your lobby you already knew how the game would go:
-Killer finds and downs first survivor they see
-killer now proxy camps the survivor
-survivor gets unhooked,immediately tunneled by the killer and then moried
-Rinse and repeat
It was absolutely not fun to go against and it pretty much already gave the killer the win before the match even started (unless the killer was absolutely awful)
nerf killer : we nerf this because the top player of this killer is too strong
nerf survivor : we should not balance with deathsquads.
How do you know the devs dont have skill
We have seen them play.
We had really good nurses on pc. Almost all gone.
As I said. I would gladly change back to how the game was a year ago.
Keys are the same as moris. Changing one but leaving the other wasn't a good idea. Sure, they'll eventually nerf keys. But nobody knows when or how that nerf looks like.
For all we know, it could turn out like the DS or BT "nerfs".
But this is what you said
"About gens,i didn't notice a significant change towards gen speeds in my games"
Slower M1 killers got hurt most by old ruin nerf as they cannot put enough pressure, pop nerf hurt them the most as well. Nobody likes to play Freddy, spirit every game and these are the killers survivors hate the most. Good nurses are extremely rare now.
Some map nerfs helped A BIT when they are smaller, but still not nearly enough to compensate for the nerfs. Also nurse got mega nerfs, her base kit is 2x weaker now than previously, if you do not run cooldown addons you have same map pressure as normal m1 killer.
OKAY SO , picture this , "4 man deathsquad" (dumbass term btw but okay) meets killer in a match . one of them makes severe error when saving . killer wins 4k more from luck , but he wins.
Next round for the 4man , and they win because killer wasnt so lucky and they didnt make same mistake twice. I mean thats the way the human brain works on a basic level so good luck nerfing that.
THIS IS DBD get over it. STOP MOANINg about balance xD if ur a good player on survivor and u have a good team obviously u wud win, i mean whats un-normal about that. its same for killers, when i get in a certain mood on killer i honestly dont care if they are swf, i will try to win by any means.
When
We've definetely seen Mathieu,Peanits,not_Queen and Almo streaming DbD at some points in the past
Exactly this is what i think people don't get. If you're up against a 20k hour swf and you've 1k hours as killer and are playing with a pretty basic build, it makes sense that you aren't going to win, it's like complaining in any other pvp game that you lost to someone who was better than you. And I can imagine if someone said let's balance for infectious slugging nurses that there would be a huge uproar.
There is winning because they are good, and then there is winning because of basic math and game mechanics.
1 killer- 4 survivors - 5 gens
Walk from point A to point B and say you find a survivor instantly. That survivor runs to a low wall loop with zero mindgame (not that many loops have a mindgame at all) you are forced to waste a set amount of time to break that pallet and leave or just leave and find someone else right?
Now you have wasted time finding that survivor, chasing that survivor and are now wasting time walking to another survivor all while they are ticking away at 3 individual gens and the one you left is now on their own gen. you probably just lost 50% on 3 gens and got nothing out of it while survivor defence is still at 100%
a good team will always get 3 gens done before you hook the first survivor if they have played long enough to understand all the loops.
I hate when people use OTZ or TRU3 as examples when they do something as simple as stand still for 2 seconds on a corner of a loop and the survivor runs into them. This never works!
Bro i heard of that, but I've never seen it. Is there anywhere to see and how recent.
It is currently being balanced around the top 1% of killers with total disregard for the caliber of the survivors they are facing. as a specific dev pointed out during a live stream.
Basic maths only works if your assuming that a game will go a certain way and there will be no gen perks, no misplays, no outplays, no anything. So many people seem to forget that there are so many factors which can change how games go. For example, if the killer has corrupt, then ur gen math is immediately thrown out of the window. If a killer gets a down fast then not all three of those gens will pop. If the killer rotates or hit and runs then all the gens won't be able to be pressured. You can almost never assume a game will go in a precise away considering how easy it is for one small thign to completely change the tide of the game.
Over a year ago we had some streams of the devs playing against the community and against their team.
Might be even 2 years ago...
Ok so thats not a good basis. I sucked when I started last august well august of 2019 and I sucked at December of 2019 and I sucked into 2020. But I got good with a year of constant playing. I cant say whether they take the game seriously or whether they consistently play or are good. But what I do know is the assumptions of their skill seems to be unfounded.
They are not streaming as often as they used to. Years ago we had a stream once per week.
I miss those times.