The hypocrisy of Dead by Daylight

One of the most unfortunate sides of Dead by Daylight is the fact that hypocrisy runs rampant. A major side of the hypocrisy is of perk loadouts and certain builds  such as Ruin/Undying  BBQ/Pop Goes the Weasel  and  Decisive Strike/Unbreakable. Usually these perks are some of the most used and can be abused. But what appalls me alot is the fact that a Killer or Survivor will use one of these perk builds and then criticize the other side for using something equally as powerful. I do think that in fact it is wrong to complain about one side but then use equally powerful perks as listed above.  if you do complain about one of these builds and then use another equally powerful build, you yourself are a hypocrite and I think that you you should get another Hobby

Comments

  • @ThePolice said:

    The thing is though, bbq, pop, ruin and undying can be countered, ds + unbreakable cannot

    DS and Unbreakable counter 2 built-in mechanics, Tunneling and Slugging. Which aren’t even perks. Also, what is the counter to Pop? I am specifically referring to the effect.

    OP isn’t even making comparison of perks, they are saying there is hypocrisy on both sides because of people who are quick to judge the other side’s load out, while having strong perks themselves... which does exist.

  • @ThePolice said:

    The thing is though, bbq, pop, ruin and undying can be countered, ds + unbreakable cannot

    Really?

  • @MythMage said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756756#Comment_1756756

    Not really. In other games, sure, but in DBD, not at all. Alot of the content creators I mentioned have been playing for a LOOOOONG time, and are very clearly good at the video game. They aren't gods of knowledge, yes, but they know the game better than anyone, especially the devs. Monto can be dismissed to an extent, but Scott Jund, Otzdarva, OhTofu, etc are all VERY credible sources of feedback on the game. I'm not asking you take their word for it. I'm asking for you to listen to them talk about the issue and form your own opinion.

    Also, entertainers don't often tell their audience what they want to hear. The channel Unus Annus is proof of that lmao. Space Coconut is one who describes all the bad things in the game, and Scott Jund and I actually had a good conversation on whether or not Ruin/Undying is the best Killer combo. It won't hurt to hear their opinions.

    Well, I've been playing for a LOOOOONG time as well. I remember when there was ONLY 3 killers btw. Meg would regain her sprint burst in the middle of a chase but killers still caught her! I remember playing as trapper and outsmarted survivors that thought they were safe with their infinities. An underated killer I might add, just like Clown that I'm sure is about to be buffed into something ridiculous and unfun if history is right. Most of those streamers you mentioned don't go back that far but that doesn't mean they don't know anything. They simply have no idea how hard playing killer was and how earning kills was actually an achievement and not something handed to them.

  • I'm getting real sick of people seeing BBQ and PGTW together and assuming that they're some sort of big power combo. If you're looking for the actual combo, it's PGTW/Thrilling Tremors. BBQ is pretty much just there for points - it has so much counterplay, and so many people automatically expect it, that it is probably one of the least useful tracking perks in terms of actual tracking.

  • @SilentHillOnDvD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/206779/the-hypocrisy-of-dead-by-daylight

    Killers use gen defense perks because base gen speed is unbalanced. So can't really call them hypocrites as they're pretty much forced to use them unless they want 5 minutes games. Survivors on the other hand can abuse the day unbreakable combo and up to 4 survivors can have this and sometimes you get hit by DS even though you didn't tunnel

    gen speeds aren't unbalanced and using a very powerful perk combo and THEN complaining about ds/ub is hypocrisy.


    Secondly, ds and ub isn't really that powerful. Like wow i got ds'd and now the chase is lengthened boo hoo

  • The only way to fix this is to balance the game around high level play. I know the game is balanced around low ranks so they can keep taking in cash, but enough is enough.

  • @TheButcher said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756733#Comment_1756733

    The power role should always be the Killer. Period. That's the whole point of a 1v4. That's the whole point of this being a casual game and not a competitive game.

    In a perfect match the survivors and killer would all be using perks, add-ons, items, and offerings. Without them it wouldn't be perfect. It only takes 2 survivors in a match playing well to ensure all 4 escape - that's not good. It only takes 1 - 2 person swf to completely negate a Killers existence, which is also very much not okay. Fungoose mentioned this on Sunday or Monday - you can go back and watch the streams.

    DS never was intened, never was, and never will be an "anti-tunneling" perk. It is, inteneded, and forever will be a perk to "extend a chase". Which is also why it's being looked at to be - nerfed, because survivors have been abusing it for immunity and to get away with performing unsafe saves. Same with Unbreakable it's not a "anti-slug perk". Both of these perks are not required to balance the game. A perk that is required to balance the game is like a perk that slows down a primary objective that by default is too fast. For example. Gen speed. Lower base Gen repair speed, and they could remove all the regression perks from the game - and it would make no difference. How it is currently you have to use regression perks to slow the game down so the Killer has a chance to even be viable in the match. Do you have to take DS? No. You don't. There are more than enough pallets in the game for you to run the Killer for over 12 minutes (tested by Otz and OhTofu), and get out without being downed once. You don't need DS. Bad players need DS for the second chance escaping from hook, when they get caught in the first place. This is the same for Dead Hard, and Borrowed Time. Iron Will is a perk bad players use to be able to hide from the Killer mid chase, instead of learning how take advantage of Killer's blind spots. As another example.

    i just love how you took the time and effort to explain to us that "killers should be more powerful" as if most matches aren't solos

    and shitting on perks that give you an advantage is kinda idiotic like, oh wow the survs have ds/unbreakable means that they will win, or saying "you are bad because you use them" isn't a valid statement.

    Killers should NOT be more powerful than survs because of balance, if you make it to where killers are more powerful then it would look more like a 1v1v1v1v1 than an actual 1v4

    Also its technically considered 1v1 because survs must work as a team

    nobody brought up dh, bt, and iron will

    like those are all perks that have their counters

  • and please just use your brains for a minute

    First of all, no this is about power combos not "omg this is op"

    Secondly, on another note, Balancing around high level play isn't really that good as ~70% of players are green to brown ranks so it would be stupid for you to balance a minority and expect it to effect a majority in a positive way

    Thirdly, before anyone asks no i don't care what you use and how you use it i just think its a matter of hypocrisy to abuse a power combo then complain about another, nothing about balance

  • @ThePolice said:

    The thing is though, bbq, pop, ruin and undying can be countered, ds + unbreakable cannot

    Rofl

  • @notameatybassriff98 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756116#Comment_1756116

    and pop technically cant be countered other than genrush and Repressed Alliance which nobody uses

    If a gen is regressing it can’t be popped so killers can counter their own perk. Also the killer can be baited into popping the wrong gen, chasing too long, not being able to hook a survivor in time, and the gen being too far away from the downed survivor.

  • @notameatybassriff98 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756173#Comment_1756173

    gen speeds aren't unbalanced and using a very powerful perk combo and THEN complaining about ds/ub is hypocrisy.

    Secondly, ds and ub isn't really that powerful. Like wow i got ds'd and now the chase is lengthened boo hoo

    I can tell you play this game at a low level if you think base gen speed is fine lol and it's also pretty clear you're a survivor main that's never rougher killer before

  • @SilentHillOnDvD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757064#Comment_1757064

    I can tell you play this game at a low level if you think base gen speed is fine lol and it's also pretty clear you're a survivor main that's never rougher killer before

    i literally play them both equally and never saw gen speed as a problem, just as you sound like you only play killer at low ranks

  • @SilentHillOnDvD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757064#Comment_1757064

    I can tell you play this game at a low level if you think base gen speed is fine lol and it's also pretty clear you're a survivor main that's never rougher killer before

    gens take 80 seconds to do without perks or items, that is enough time

  • They aren't even close.

    DS Unbreakable is an absolutely disgusting combo with no counterplay for the killer.

    You either:

    • Leave them alone, letting them work on gens for 60 seconds both times DS is ready
    • Slug them, investing a ton of time for no pressure gain because Unbreakable
    • Camp their slugged body, wasting EVEN MORE time and becoming vulnerable if they brought Soul Guard.

    In case you haven't noticed... NONE of these are good for the killer. Unless you can't hit the easiest skill check in the game, you are guaranteed 60 seconds of complete safety.

    Meanwhile...

    • Pop has tons of counterplay. Don't go down and feed the killer pop. Don't just randomly tap gens to let the killer multi-pop. Commit to gens to finish them before the killer can pop them. Use Repressed Alliance.
    • BBQ isn't overpowered in the slightest. The only reason it's meta is for Blood Points, and if you're such a sadsack that you're gonna complain about the other side getting BLOODPOINTS, that's pathetic. To avoid the aura reading...
      • Hide behind gens
      • Hide in lockers
      • Run Distortion
      • Run Off The Record
      • Change directions after 4 seconds
      • Get within the minimum range
    • Ruin Undying isn't even that strong. It's entirely possible to get rid of the hex, and even if you don't want to do that you can just do gens through it. If you pair up on a gen, you'll be able to finish gens quickly enough that even Blight usually won't make it in time to stop you, and even if he does, you can prevent Ruin from doing anything by having the second guy hide until Blight chases the first guy off, or you can run Repressed Alliance.


  • @notameatybassriff98 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757236#Comment_1757236

    gens take 80 seconds to do without perks or items, that is enough time

    I'm done wasting my time talking to a hardstuck rank 16 survivor let's agree to disagree

  • @SilentHillOnDvD said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757247#Comment_1757247

    I'm done wasting my time talking to a hardstuck rank 16 survivor let's agree to disagree

    you must be a rank 20 killer for how you attack someone for having a different opinion than you, and this is a discussion post not a i'm right you're wrong board

  • @Bard said:

    They aren't even close.

    DS Unbreakable is an absolutely disgusting combo with no counterplay for the killer.

    You either:

    • Leave them alone, letting them work on gens for 60 seconds both times DS is ready
    • Slug them, investing a ton of time for no pressure gain because Unbreakable
    • Camp their slugged body, wasting EVEN MORE time and becoming vulnerable if they brought Soul Guard.

    In case you haven't noticed... NONE of these are good for the killer. Unless you're a dipshit who can't hit the easiest skill check in the game, you are guaranteed 60 seconds of complete safety.

    Meanwhile...

    • Pop has tons of counterplay. Don't go down and feed the killer pop. Don't just randomly tap gens to let the killer multi-pop. Commit to gens to finish them before the killer can pop them. Use Repressed Alliance.
    • BBQ isn't overpowered in the slightest. The only reason it's meta is for Blood Points, and if you're such a sadsack that you're gonna complain about the other side getting BLOODPOINTS, that's pathetic. To avoid the aura reading...
      • Hide behind gens
      • Hide in lockers
      • Run Distortion
      • Run Off The Record
      • Change directions after 4 seconds
      • Get within the minimum range
    • Ruin Undying isn't even that strong. It's entirely possible to get rid of the hex, and even if you don't want to do that you can just do gens through it. If you pair up on a gen, you'll be able to finish gens quickly enough that even Blight usually won't make it in time to stop you, and even if he does, you can prevent Ruin from doing anything by having the second guy hide until Blight chases the first guy off, or you can run Repressed Alliance.

    i wasn't talking about whether something is op or not, this is purely a post about how its hypocritical to use a build such as ruin/undying then complain about ds/unbreakable

  • @MadLordJack said:

    I'm getting real sick of people seeing BBQ and PGTW together and assuming that they're some sort of big power combo. If you're looking for the actual combo, it's PGTW/Thrilling Tremors. BBQ is pretty much just there for points - it has so much counterplay, and so many people automatically expect it, that it is probably one of the least useful tracking perks in terms of actual tracking.

    you're right, i should've said that. i just said bbq because its used way more than thrilling tremors

  • @TheButcher said:

    I think the dumb part is that the reason Killer's use these perks is to balance the game.

    Pop is needed for balanced gen regression.

    BBQ/Thrilling is needed to actually find survivors and keep the game active.

    Undying is required to barely make Hex perks viable. (I'm only explaining this one because you included in your original post. Actually in higher ranks you rarely see hex perks even Undying because they are still so incredibly unreliable. It's easy to remember totem spanws, and it's not difficult to find them. Most spawns are even directly in most Survivors pathing)

    The reason Survivors use these perks is to optimize additional second chances. When in a game where the Killer makes one mistake that will cost them the whole match.

    It's extremely unbalanced and one sided when you actually look at it all statistically. Survivors only have a hard time because most were raised in the game relying entirely on the second chances, and being pandered too - they are not good enough or have the common knowledge of the game to know that with some actual learning they are unstoppable. Then when you get to high ranks - the best are the only survivors you ever face, making it awful for Killers. Sure in high ranks you get some bad eggs of survivors because leving survivor is easy, but you really only need 2 strong survivors in a match or SWF to completely decimate a killer that isn't Spirit, or Nurse (Killers that apply both pressure to survivors and gen's quickly).

    I completely agree w this comment.

  • @notameatybassriff98 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1756116#Comment_1756116

    and pop technically cant be countered other than genrush and Repressed Alliance which nobody uses

    just don't get hooked 5head

  • I think the best solution to this whole problem is to not look at it as a problem.


    Just let everyone play how they want and use and abuse whatever ppl feel like.


    No hypocrisy required.


    I'm kind of tired of the same post w different words w the following comments being the same argument.


    Killer or survivor? Who are the toxic hypocrites...


    Probably the one who comes to the forums to complain about the same exact thing that someone else complained about 5 post down.

  • @noctis129 said:

    I think the best solution to this whole problem is to not look at it as a problem.

    Just let everyone play how they want and use and abuse whatever ppl feel like.

    No hypocrisy required.

    I'm kind of tired of the same post w different words w the following comments being the same argument.

    Killer or survivor? Who are the toxic hypocrites...

    Probably the one who comes to the forums to complain about the same exact thing that someone else complained about 5 post down.

    i totally agree and the only reason i made this is to call people out for being hypocrites, not to talk about whats op or toxic

  • if you play at any rank higher than rank 16 you're gonna get hooked at least once 6head

  • @notameatybassriff98 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757254#Comment_1757254

    i wasn't talking about whether something is op or not, this is purely a post about how its hypocritical to use a build such as ruin/undying then complain about ds/unbreakable

    It isn't hypocritical.

    The complaint about DS Unbreakable is that it's an overpowered anti-everything loadout with no counterplay.

    Ruin Undying is a powerful (but absolutely beatable) loadout with several forms of counterplay.

  • @notameatybassriff98 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1757310#Comment_1757310

    if you play at any rank higher than rank 16 you're gonna get hooked at least once 6head

    r/woooosh

  • @ThePolice said:

    The thing is though, bbq, pop, ruin and undying can be countered, ds + unbreakable cannot

    Sure it can. Survivors can only use it once. Force them to use it early in the match, and they’re screwed late game.

  • @TheButcher said:

    I think the dumb part is that the reason Killer's use these perks is to balance the game.

    Pop is needed for balanced gen regression.

    BBQ/Thrilling is needed to actually find survivors and keep the game active.

    Undying is required to barely make Hex perks viable. (I'm only explaining this one because you included in your original post. Actually in higher ranks you rarely see hex perks even Undying because they are still so incredibly unreliable. It's easy to remember totem spanws, and it's not difficult to find them. Most spawns are even directly in most Survivors pathing)

    The reason Survivors use these perks is to optimize additional second chances. When in a game where the Killer makes one mistake that will cost them the whole match.

    It's extremely unbalanced and one sided when you actually look at it all statistically. Survivors only have a hard time because most were raised in the game relying entirely on the second chances, and being pandered too - they are not good enough or have the common knowledge of the game to know that with some actual learning they are unstoppable. Then when you get to high ranks - the best are the only survivors you ever face, making it awful for Killers. Sure in high ranks you get some bad eggs of survivors because leving survivor is easy, but you really only need 2 strong survivors in a match or SWF to completely decimate a killer that isn't Spirit, or Nurse (Killers that apply both pressure to survivors and gen's quickly).

    Undying is not "required" to make hex perks viable, why else would ruin both old and new have incredibly high usage rates before undying came along?

    You've gotta remember killer's have second chances as well, it's not a one sided thing. Just because you can't actively see the second chances doesn't mean they don't exist.

    There are plenty of killer mains out there, especially those who main killers other than nurse/spirit, who will show u that that last statement is not true at all.

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