4 weeks on is the Undying/Ruin panic a kneejerk reaction?
When this combo first hit live everyone was panicking. It’s OP, it’s unfair, it has to be nerfed.
I admit that first week it was really good. The totems lasted all game and survivors were getting shredded
The past week though I’m really seeing how well survivors have adapted. For me Undying goes first 90% of the time which is astounding if it isn’t intentional, but also both perks are fairly quickly removed from the game for me now. In week 1 the Ruin would last all game but now it’s only a couple of minutes before I’m 2 perk slots down.
In addition its just not the best combo for every killer. Someone like Hillbilly might be able to make great use but on a less mobile killer and especially on larger maps you just can’t control every single generator enough for Ruin to do some work. Its also hard to determine how much regression Ruin is doing. Sometimes you’ll have gens completely regress, sometimes there’s always a survivor to back it up anytime you pressure one off it.
I don’t think it’s the be all and end all combo that people first thought it was. Not even with Tinkerer. Personally I’m already starting to ditch it on a number of killers.
Comments
Yeah, for already experienced killers who can pressure survivors without it, it is kind of unfair.
I agree. The only Killer I felt I could put it to good use was on Oni since I´ve only played maybe 10 billy matches in 2020. Gonna switch to a more reliable build too, the good players have adapted, greatly reducing the value of this inconsistend combo.
Yes I agree, Ruin, undying needs a Nerf.
survivors can either memorize the totem spawns or use perks to find the totems. the combo is good but imo not broken and if undying is still up halfway into the game and you have barely interfered with it being cleansed its on the survivors.
Overall it's been fine for me. It was a rough start, but I always do totems at the start of matches. One thing I do not enjoy however is the free wall hacks undying gives you. It's not fair IMO.
Problem is it's super oppressive vs solo survivors, who are already the weakest role in the game by far, with no totem counter, comms, etc. It's more unhealthy than unfair because of this if there is a problem, I personally run Detective's Hunch in my main build though.
why not just take detective's hunch and distortion? could it be that having to sacrifice 2/4 perks for a decent QoL is asking too much?
Oh well, why switch off DS/BT/UB/SB, right? ;)
Its not though. Ruin does literally nothing if you never let go of the gen. It only works if the killer actually pressures gens, I.E the thing survivors always complain they should be doing.
Survivors just need to latch onto the first gen they see, and if the killer never comes around to chase them off of it, its free. Then you just look for totems between gens, and clear them even if they're dull. Suddenly 2 of the killer's perks have been deleted with minimal interaction.
Its not that its a weak combo, far from it. But its strength is based on survivors who refuse to adapt, which is why its so ironic that people overvalue it so much.... and it also overperforms at the same time. You don't have to be in a swf to deal with the combo, and you can single handedly win the game for your team by just not falling for it.
The first week the Ruin totem was often up until the end of the trial. Now it’s gone very early.
There’s no doubt survivors have adapted. With old Ruin the totem was gone in 30 seconds. When it got nerfed survivors stopped caring about totems and also new totem spots were created.
After a few weeks of Undying/Ruin survivors are treating totems as a priority again and they’ve been learning the totem spots after cleansing so many. Right off the bat I see people running to dull totems which is something only inner strength users and Blendettes did before.
As for the aura reading for the most part survivors are doing this when I’m too far away or in a chase. The killer can’t be everywhere at once. Maybe it sucks vs Hillbilly or a windstorm wraith, probably GF too if he’s close but against your standard killers its easy enough to cleanse totems.
Ah yeah in solo let me just stick on Detective's and Distortion alongside Kindred and Bond and Iron Will and Spine Chill (because if you're not using those perks then you can't complain about spirit apparently) and an obsession perk so I don't get tunneled and-
Oh wait. That's, uh, that's more than 4 perks.
######### solo survivors though, right?
Funny, Killers are supposed to be running like 8 different perks to deal with the advantages survivors usually have (lets not forget, the ruin/undying combo is sacrificing two perks that can be entirely 100% disabled by the survivors for no actual cost) and you want to complain that you don't have room for the smol pp combo?
I run Spine Chill and Kindred on most builds as solo survivor. It, at worst, neutralizes all of the negatives that could happen in most scenarios (including this one.) with only those two perks. I also only play solo survivor, and i'm probably about 80/20 in terms of survivor vs killer.
Detectives hunch, especially when paired with a map, is absurdly slept on. Using it basically lets a single survivor assure that not only no hex totems survive, but NOED will never proc. Distortion, like I mentioned, is a free totem locator when not being a free protection from killer aura perks (yet another time you gets to nullify a killer perk,) as long as you're actually paying attention to it.
Bond... has nothing to do with this scenario, and isn't necessary for solo queue? I mean it can be handy, but if you know how to play injured and not go down in 2 seconds in a chase its not exactly that important. Besides, Kindred does the job anyway: you can find everyone instantly the second anyone gets hooked, regardless of distance. Also, obsession perk? You could always just not take one, assuming that one of the other 4 players will, and not waste the slot? Or just use your build and skills to your advantage to make the killer lose for trying to tunnel you?
I honestly don't get this level of entitlement. Killers get 4 perks, and they usually have to sacrifice 1-3 slots to even have a chance at being viable. as the power role. and thats not even talking about their addons which can be just as (if not more) important. AND they can't just give up and get out of the game to the next one if they do bad, they have to wait it out until the last survivor is either dead or leaves. As survivor, if you get a bad game.... just die and move on? you'll be in a new game by the time the previous one even finishes, so who cares?
If you play solo survivor, you should know that its not about surviving, its about getting as many points and pips as you can. and if you can't? grab a drink and you'll be in another match by the time you get back.
The combo is fine. What is not fine is the aura reading ability, which not only makes thrill of the hunt completely useless, but on high mobility killers makes the perk absolutely unfair, especially in solo queue.
The aura reveal needs to go
why not abuse it? if its a high mobility killer, work on the totem for a moment then leave. Guarantee you'll either ruin their chase, or makes them unwilling to break chase to go after totems after a few times. Just think of how most killers end up handling OoO survivors: they have to judge whether they can actually try to chase them and get them out of the game, or are forced to ignore them because it wastes more pressure than it gains.
Because you're assuming a coordinated team, which as usual is something that rarely happens
How does it make Thrill worthless? Thrill still gives you a notification and its easier to notice it due to the audio whereas you can miss a silent aura if you’re looking in the wrong direction. 6 seconds, 6 seconds of looking in any other direction and you miss it. Plus Thrill buys you more time to interrupt the totems.
Nah im just assuming a solo survivor with some awareness. If you have Spine Chill or premonition you can get a nice early warning that the killer broke off and is coming for you. Empathy can help with this as well, if an injured survivor suddenly stops moving erratically and starts healing/working on a gen/etc. Obsession tendrils might stop moving. Even barring all of that, you could just show some restraint and get off the totem after working on it for 2-3 seconds and walk away.
Because you have to give up 3 perk slots instead of 2 for an effect that you already somehow have. 6 seconds of aura reveal are a lot.
Bear in mind that I don't want limited undying uses or if undying is cleansed - > the other hex totems that were already cleansed once lose their hex status again, like others proposed.
I just think that the aura reveal is making an already niche perk even more useless
But using spine chill would mean I have to remove one of my 4 meta perks 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒
Because I don't have detective's hunch maybe?
I mean, most killer players don't have ruin/undying/tinkerer on every killer they want to play, yet thats apparently what they need to do to be relevant in this meta ;)
Those two perks in particular are very hard counters to the complaints around the current killer perk synergy, but they're not the only ones. Small Game works great as well, and requires no teachables. As does just learning where totem spawns generally are, which requires no perk slots at all :)
Giving up 3 perk slots just to keep Ruin is not worth it. Even a 2 man swf can shred those totems pretty fast and then you’re a 1 perk killer for the rest of the trial.
Exactly, but that's the point of having limited perk slots: players have to choose what effects they wants. You want to get notified? Get thrill. You want your ruin to be sent to another totem? Get undying. But now you get "almost" notified with undying too
No im complaining about all the perks I get told to run when I complain about solo q.
Here's a fun fact: One side suffering with an issue doesn't mean the other side should, it means neither should. It's like one kid having a fiver and one having a tenner and you take £5 away to make it fair instead of either splitting it evenly or giving the kid with a fiver more money.
My normal build is WGLF, We'll Make It, Iron Will, and Hope, and I'm literally a killer main who hates the tiny dick build. I fail to see your point here.
Thrill isnt just the notification, its the slowdown as well. Heck theres even a points bonus.
Why should Undying be just a one trick pony? If that was the case it would be worthless solo and it’s utterly useless if it gets taken out first. Its a totem defence perk.
Survivors don't need any perks. Perks are designed to either cover for weakness in your own play, or augment your strengths. Not having the proper perks to hard counter something doesn't mean it has no counter without them, just that you kinda have to work a bit harder for it.
Please feel free to explain the counter to Spirit or to Undying's Aura Reveal without perks or communication? Currently my strategy involves waiting for the obsession to be chased since that's a guaranteed indicator then cleansing the totem, and spirit is just "Iron Will or nothing". At least that's all the advice I've gotten so far.
This can be easily turned around for killers too
That's an entirely different problem.
The devs should rather bring solo queue more closer to SWF level (in terms of information) then nerfing this perk combo.
Like every build that is focused around hex totems it's still very RNG and Map dependent.
It's obviously stronger on maps with difficult totem spawns but weaker on maps with easy totem spawns.
The times i run this combo it's usually undying that goes first and then ruin.
It's not thaaaat good,at least in my experience
I dunno man. I had fun running this for a while when it first came out, but decided to goof around for a bit with Blight and have been running BBQ/Agitation/Mad Grit and swapping between Franklin's/Iron Maiden. A sort of a silly meme-ish build, usually with double speed add-ons so I'm out of control on my final rush and am going 500MPH.
Despite this and playing as fairly as I can, or rather overly-fair enough to be a massive detriment to my chances of winning (trying my best to hook the entire team one at a time, avoiding double hooks if possible, no camping/tunneling), I was still called an ######### for hooking the last survivor last night instead of letting them go. And that some of my hits were BS despite all of us having great pings and not even a whiff of lag being visible to me the entire match.
You just can't win sometimes. Apparently not only is giving the hatch/escape to the last survivor not nice, it's also totally expected. Never mind that I've literally only ever had a single survivor offer themselves up to the hook in several hundred hours of play, because they "felt bad," that I was losing so hard.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the combo. All its done is show how many survivors were actually bad, but were being carried by gen speeds. I've noticed good survivors won't struggle against it, while weaker survivors will struggle because they refuse to bring in maps/perks to counter it or memorise totem spawns.
Yes. All true👆🏽
Undying was another perk designed primarily around keeping mostly SWFs (all survivors, certainly) off the immediate 4person gen rush and onto the cleansing objective. Coms negate the full effect of this perk.
Solo survivors again get the oppression.
I Main Solo queue, and I’ve experienced it all.
Realistically tho, most experienced Solo survivors should have a fairly decent idea of how to “play together” as a team of Solos functioning w/o the coms and still have a somewhat fun match.
With everyone having their own style gameplay, someone needs to create a
SOLO SURVIVAL CODE OF GAMEPLAY
or some kind of Solo guidelines manifesto and pass it around to everyone.
With this, players should be able to have more cohesively eventful matches, despite the downset brought on by all the catering to SWF.
Take Aura, give to thrill
its fine otherwise
Survivors just don't like having to run anything other than a full second chance build. Ruin and Undying is strong but struggles with bad totem RNG (also the main reason I don't like to use it, I like being able to use all four perks without having to worry about losing two of them) or if you're a low mobility Killer on a large map. It doesn't make Thrill useless because it's easier to catch the notification for Thrill (look in the wrong direction for six seconds and say bye to your totem) and it slows down the cleansing speed. The most common suggestion seems to involve killing Undying to buff Thrill, which is not good at all.
We can buff solo Survivors with something like a totem counter (which would also help against NOED).
It did what NOED should've done. Survivors do totems.