We need a harsher punishment for the survivors who kill themselves on hook
The title. As a player who plays 70% survivor and 30% killer, it's really annoying when an entitled survivor kills himself on hook the moment he gets outplayed by the killer in first 40 seconds. This is basically a death sentence for a survivor team and an easy game for the killer. Obviously the ranking doesn't matter because it doesn't have any inherent value and it is not hard to get back to a higher rank because the game rewards even the mediocre players for their poor performance. I am really not sure what devs could do to prevent this because at the moment, every second game has this one guy who just straight up kills himself and the game quality suffers dramatically from that.
Edit: since an impressive amount of people have difficulties reading, I will paraphrase / highlight the point I was trying to make.
The self-unhook is a game mechanic available for everyone at any time, I haven't told once people should get punished for using it / become the hostages in the game.
The person who hook-kills himself in the beginning of the game (<---- this part is very important) RUINS THE EXPERIENCE for the rest of survivors making it much harder for them to win. This care-free behavior at the moment is punished only by a measly depip which no one cares about because frankly ranking as a survivor is EXTREMELY easy to do. If you honestly think every 2nd or 3rd game to play as trio vs a killer is something natural and expected - you should stop. This is a 4v1 asymmetrical game, a missing survivor is devastating for the rest of the survivors.
Comments
I mean if the killer feels like leaving early is a valid option most survivors haven't piped so it would at least prevent them from depiping
Means the Survivors are now much more liable to have a larger percentage of non-games, which ain't fair to them.
You can't really say 5 min since no one besides the devs knows what the average match time is i'd vouch that 2-3 min is a good indicator
You can kinda say the same thing with 1st hook deaths
I still say no, this is just a fairly non-competitive video game with (generally) very short matches. It's not like LoL where matches last anywhere for 30mins to an hour, and not nearly as competitive (though the snowball potential might be just as bad). The only reason the game prob feels longer than it actually is is because of queue timers.
If someone wants to quit they should be able to quit. If they actually addressed the issues on WHY people quit then maybe this would have validity. But because the snowball in DbD can be so unreal I don't blame someone if they're just like, "######### this I'm out."
They never said this. if they did I have never heard them say this. please give proof of them saying this? if it was known then why wasn't it adjusted? lol because they didn't care to monitor it because they didn't care about DCs till people started really complaining.
again do you want to be punished for using god pallet? do you want to be punished for cleansing a totem? this is the same thing.
Being a non-competitive game does not mean that ragequitting does not carry the likelihood of ruining the game for an entire team. Being a short match does not make it okay to ruin that game.
Yes, the game has issues that does need to be fixed, but you can't fix the people who are just sore losers and choose to quit out of saltiness. The only way to deal with those players are to cut off as many ways of them ragequitting as possible.
Hence why intentionally dying on first hook excessively should be punished?
I can't promise you that I can find it easily, but I will certainly try. And the reason they didn't adjust it was that they opted to revamp the whole system into the current DC penalty system.
Unless you made it impossible to die on second hook you can't really enforce it and if they did get rid of the struggle phase what's the point of the second hook
The problem with this assessment and conclusion that all survivors who die on first hook do not take into account the mechanic built-in to attempt to escape. It also doesn't take into account people who legitimately die on first hook, spending absolute minutes repeatedly pressing a single button.
That mechanic exists to allow survivors their own chance to escape the hook. 4% Roll the dice. Play your cards right. Use certain perks and those chances increase dramatically, one of them even lets you successfully get off the hook every time.
Saying that people shouldn't use those mechanics, even if it's a detriment to their team, is basically punishing someone for playing the game.
Sure sure, you can simply wave this argument away by saying something like, "But the devs can build a system that recognizes these things, then there's no problem! Problem solved!" That kind of system takes a lot more time than you think it does. It also can't take into account every nuanced reason why someone did or did not attempt to escape off the hook. And punishing players who want to roll the dice and get off the hook themselves because they realize that either their teammates are too busy to care, or you're being facecamped and just don't want to be in this game anymore, or any number of reasons that aren't "I hate this map/killer I'm gonna throw myself at the hook and die," is just spitting at people fairly using game mechanics.
You might as well remove the mechanic if you're going to punish people for using the mechanic "too much."
If you implement a system that keeps track and punishes accordingly, you can.
might as well make it one hook, no struggle, can't get off yourself at all, can't do any emotes or anything. let's do that one hook, you get saved, next hook you're dead. so instead of 3 hooks it's 2.
Not really. You just gotta remove the ability to instantly die if you don't mash a button. You can still keep it three phases.
My only comeback to that is my suggestion would be easier to implement
I won't disagree with you there.
Good discussion though
The entitlement is unreal
so how can you tell an automated system to differentiate from wanting to get off the hook, not realizing you have to struggle, or intentionally not struggling... you can not do it thus you can not have an automated system monitor hook deaths and punish accordingly.
DCs: how can you tell an automated system to know when you lost connection to the server via the isp or something else in between vs someone pulling their ethernet cable or using their pc to disconnect? you can't it's impossible, you have to watch the packets and server information before and after the even to see the change and it's not the same each time. can't be done without human interaction.
I think it mainly sucks cause it ######### over the rest of their team, I've seen people get salty because I had an RTB on their head so they kill themselves earlier in the game. It isn't always Moris((I see no issue with them)) or strong add ons((I find the outrage over this strange and troubling, are we not supposed to use our best tools?)). There's people that kill themselves so their mates could get the hatch too. That being said, I'm unsure if a punishment will fix things. But I worry that this will screw up the stats and lead to unreasonable nerfs.
I dont think a punishment is in need, but it should give the killer the lost BP. A DC gives me 625 BP. BS, if I 3 hook to kill I get 2500 in total. A DC should give you 2000 BP because you played the game and got robbed of that sweet sweet BP. DC penalties plus extra BP for Survivor DC's would he much better. Also give survivors free 15K if a killer DC's. That way if he dca early it wssnt a complete waste and if he dcs late its a sweet bonus.
I mentioned it above: If you are hooked within a certain amount of time and then die in one hook while having been on the hook for less than a certain amount of time, the system makes a note of that. If you are caught doing that too frequently in too short amount of time, you get punished for it.
so i can't try to get off the hook? and then get distracted and not struggle in time? lol thanks for punishing me for crap that is a mistake.
The punishment for survivors killing themselves on hook is that they get the points they got and they depip! I understand what your getting at but entitlement will always exist in this game, even if there was a harsher punishment for survivors killing themselves on hook they'll find away around that punishment!
The only thing I don't like about the DC penalty is that survivors can kill themselves on hook to get out of the match, but killers have to endure the bullshit because theirs no way for them to dodge the penalty
If you are caught doing that too frequently in too short amount of time, you get punished for it.
Give me a realistic scenario where that would happen frequently enough in a short span of time that you would get punished for it.
lol easily. I have a cat and sometimes i have to get up to rescue it from something that could hurt it.... ok i have children i have to stop what i'm doing to discipline. I get a phone call I have to answer. shall I go on?
So help them while you are in hook phase 1 instead of trying to force yourself to die on hook before you tend to more important matters. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
so you will dictate that I can't try to get off the hook? they will make sure to require my attention during the first stage of hook? lol great thinking you must know all the player's futures! NO. it is an option in the game, if people wish to try it and not struggle that's their CHOICE... they are using in match functionality and can not be punished for it without a declaration that it's an exploit like oh hey you have hatch? I'll dc for ya now. click.... hatch opens, match ends.
Thank you!
If you know that you have an urgent matter to tend do, why are you staying at the game to force yourself to die on hook ASAP instead of just walking away to tend to the matter and then return to see if you can still resume the game?
Or are you suggesting that "multiple games in a row, I will repeatedly try to self-unhook after being down in the first minute, and then the moment I enter phase 2, some urgent matter will require my attention and force me to leave and die" qualifies as a realistic scenario?
You can just DC if you don't want to play. You'll get a penalty, but you won't have to play.
look, you are so intent on trying to prove a point you have made a mockery of this whole thing. have you ever had children? have you ever watched children? you NEVER know when you will have to do something to stop them. Why can I not try to get off of hook each time I get hooked? it puts me in phase two and then I have to deal with something? I gave examples. if i'm in stage two and i stop struggling it is not something I am required to tell you about, I may be tired and decide i'm done, maybe i have to go do something and then I come back. At least they are using IN MATCH functionality to do this instead of anything else. stop your whining about this and deal with it on your end. don't like it happening? easy fix, get 3 friends you play with and if they die on first hook tell them you won't play with them again for what ever reason. you put a penalty in for dying on first hook, you best also put a penalty in game about throwing pallets for no reason, how about failing skill checks? lol you want to penalize in match functionality, this is actually you just trying to force your individual viewpoint on to everyone that plays. GET a life.
You're presenting a highly unrealistic scenario. Having to tend to kids is reasonable. Having to tend to kids nearly every time you hit 2nd stage after consistently failing to self-unhook is not realistic. If someone repeatedly dies on first hook after staying on the hook for barely any time after being downed very early in the match, they should be punished.
It's impossible. How is BHVR supposed to know the difference between somebody that's suiciding and somebody that knows theres no escape?
Frequency + time spent on hook before they died on first hook + time that has passed before they were hooked
I agree with this 100%. As long as there's bullshit on either side I can understand the frustration of people who DC/kill themselves.
Keys, moris, iri hatchets, even map offerings to a certain extent (if 1 person puts a Haddonfield offering it doesn't matter if the killer wants another map, even though the survivor is 1/4 of the team his offering is as valid as the killer's).
Plus you're getting into DANGEROUS territory here; you're basically policing the "RIGHT" way of playing by taking away survivors' options, even if it's something not that meaningful.
Just a couple days ago I had a Bubba down all 3 survivors with one sweep while I was on first hook, should I be penalized for wanting to get out faster from an already lost game?
That's where frequency comes in. You wouldn't get punished unless you demonstrate a consistent habit.
You can't force people to play the game. Trying to self unhook is intensional game design, just as all of the perks and all of the tactics people hate like camping, slugging, patrolling, swf and such.
Than we need to fix all the stupid second chance perks that survivors have and remove the hatch from the game.
Killers currently can't leave a game early without DCing. So this notion of "you can't force people to play the game" is contradicted by the current state of the game.
Everyone ######### on hook!! Do it let's make it a trend
No if my team is a bunch of potatos or working with the killer im not staying in the game.
And if your teams have a consistent habit of getting wiped?
We also need a punishment for killers who camp hooks. I’m sorry but this game isn’t fun for survivors that get hooked once and can’t ever get back into the game. Such a one sided comment 🤦🏽
Enough for you to consistently get one-hooked by means of repeatedly attempting to self-unhook and then let yourself die on hook the moment you entered the struggle phase?
as a survivor you can still just leave the game as well. People aren’t bound to a game you know. People have real life stuff going on that have influence over peoples decision to stay or leave.
Key words: "as a survivor"
I only said as a survivor because it’s the topic of the post. He’s talking about teammates hook suiciding. What do you mean key words? I’ve seen Killers quit too. It’s a problem on both sides people giving up. But more often on the survivor side. You can’t blame them. Survivor side might be more laid back, but it’s not enjoyable. You hold one button down on a generator and the killer gets ez hits on you with little penalty for missing. It barely slows him down. Vault hitboxes are very bad. I’ve never seen so many killers swinging wildly at windows THAT confident they will hit you.
Killer's can't leave the game early without disconnecting, which goes against the idea of "People aren't bound to a game."