Why do killers need to be high skill and survivors dont?
Honest question. I read this for every single killer nerf, "we want to reward skillful play and not give killer free value". Just in the mechanics of the game, killer already takes more skill than survivor. You have to track gens, find hooks, remember who you hooked, remember what perks each survivor has, remember who has what item, know each tile, know your own power/perks, and mindgame.
Survivor on the other hand, they need to know the tile, which killer, and occasionally hit a skill check or the e key.
I think the only thing remotely skillful about survivor is flashlight timing.
I feel like killer needs to be streamer quality to have any chance at winning, but survivors get their hands held through the entire game. So why aren't survivors being forced to play skillful? Where are the cooldowns on flashlights to stop people from spamming, where are the very hard skill checks, where are the tiles that are very difficult to run, where are the perks that take a brain to use?
Comments
How many 2?
I literally named 8, EASILY.
I mean you did just spew hyperbolic stuff which invokes reactions and was like whoa how dare you perceive it how you did so maybe have these tame words be your first point rather than YOU CAN NO SURVIVOR MANY TIME UNLESS GOD DARE YOU TRY MORTAL
NOED is the only second chance perk on that list. It's not about whether or not you have to go out of your way to activate it, it's about how much power they have. The survivor perks can either save them from the biggest fails imaginable or when used at a good time can easily win the game for the survivor side.
you said "The skill of Survivor is being able to work with 3 other randoms. Go play Survivor, if its skill less you should be able to escape 100% of the time right?" which is a hyperbole which then I made my own hyperbole of which you reacted to it in the way you did you have effectively perpetuated the cycle I pointed out that you created. Which frankly if 4 levels of meta in itself i'm not prepared for
Press M1 + Space and hide ... so skilled KEKW. The survivors don't need to do chases to escape, so being a survivor is much easier than killer.
So you're saying SWF takes no skill?
You needed the green addon to do good with billy play him whitout any addon and the only thing he have is mobility in a straight line and sometime you can get an unexpected down. Personally the nerf should have is changing the rarerity on some addon that all
Saying that playing survivor doesn't require skill is being delusional imo, especially when talking about solo survivors. Sure there are some "handholding" perks, but killers have them too, so that's hardly a valid argument.
"survivors dont need skill" xDDDD, u can say that on end game chat next time i run u for 5 gens xD ;)
I’ve always found it weird how big the skill difference was between completing your objective as a killer and as a survivor. Whereas a killer needs to outplay actual people, the survivors just need to hold m1 and occasionally hit spacebar. It’s something the devs should look into imo, but they’re already monitoring gen speed so it’s not like they’re not trying.
They should also look into some 2nd chance perks and make it so survivors meet certain requirements before these perks can be used or rework these perks in another way so skill is actually necessary when using it. I saw this suggestion for BT for example where BT would actually transfer the hit to the rescuer rather than blocking it.
To be fair though, they have done this in the past with MoM for example. I think it’s just a matter of time and urgency before 2nd chance perks get more downsides to them and require more skill.
For most of these you'd have to play differently to get the most out of them:
Dying light: Even if the obsession has the survival instincts of a lemming you can't get them out of the game or you lose your perk(Normally this is an advantage to get rid of a weak link).
Sloppy: Killer dependent if it changes your play-style as if you;d want to use it on huntress for example you'd have to force out melee hits which isn't easy.
Nurse's calling: Killer dependent again but best used by going out of your way to damage everyone instead of going for downs immediately.
BBQ: Try playing billy/spirit with this and tell me it doesn't change how you play them.
Pop: Encourages you to kick in situations where kicking is normally useless such as survivors being nearby and overall makes you kick vastly more then normal.
Coulrophobia: Its run in anti healing build which for an obvious reason require you to change how you build/play.
Infectious: O come on this is the posterboy of rampage builds for Michael,Plague and, Oni and requires you to play differently(Aka 2+ man slugging) to max out its power.
NOED: It requires you to suck/Play against SWF gen rush squad but more relevantly its used nearly end game build to get.
Not only that, but all of these perks in some degree reward the killer for doing their objectives, mean while the survivor meta is all about fixing their mistakes and removing killer's progress for playing correctly. That is the main issue, not passive nature of perks.
Now that ruin is nerfed you don't even have to hit great skillchecks anymore. All you have to do is hold the bumper you can literally do it with one hand. Honestly I am very curious what more survivors want because survivor gameplay is pretty relaxing these days you can even play on your phone while you play. Oh well I will just play survivor i'm done being stressed out over nothing it's just not worth it anymore and nurse on console feels like trying to how to learn how to fly a real life fighter jet
No it has to feel like your life force is being drained or the Entity wouldn't be pleased
Even when you do escape, it doesn't mean you had any skill in doing so. Meaning that escaping isn't what requires skill. Most of the things that entail skill for survivor revolve around interacting with the killer.
Survivors have a lot of things that remove the need for skill, too. No cooldowns, never stunned, are sped up every time they're hit, have a plethora of second chance perks, can be in multiple places at once. It requires very little skill. Hug the wall, and drop the pallet at the right time.
Any time you see a good team of survivor they likely have the same mental model of how the game works. Meaning that they respond to events in the game the same way, so when something goes wrong, they seemingly know what eachother is doing. SWFs can mimic this, but instead of having the same mental models, they just communicate to one another what they're doing by speaking into comms.
Maybe on PC at the higher ranks, but lately I've hung around mid-ranks because I don't really care for rank any more, but hate noobstomping and don't really use add-ons.
I mean I hear what you’re saying. Killers don’t necessarily have to go out of their way to get value out of their perks, but these aren’t exactly 2nd chance perks that you named that can shift the outcome of the game. Most of the perk you named are actually perks that grant you something for playing well. They’re the opposites of 2nd chances in a way. Hell if you do see them as 2nd chances then you can’t argue that the killer hasn’t worked for it like for example unbreakable.
Noed is the only exception to this but even then Noed has somewhat of a drawback linked to it in the sense that survivors can get rid of your 2nd chance perk.
Survivors still need skill to play. If survivors didn’t need skill then where is the 100% escape rate??
Oh, where did it go?
Glad we're on the same page, then.
xD
Play with 3 of your friends regulary and optimize your builds to play together. Throw all that straight ouf of the window.
So you were saying? Before I left we had about a 90% escape rate each. To die usually was mostly due to an increased amount of trollign each other sand bagging and so on. There are a number of individuals who can deal with that but not alot. To say that this is the skill in survivor is beyond stupid as you can circumvent it with discord and swf.
But than should you not balance the game for high level of play? Like literally any other game out there? Since ok lets just say survivor is harder to play (i disagree but ok), when the Survival rate at highrank is still way to high (i believe there was a static once though it is old now with 80% survival rate in general) shouldn’t there still be messures taken? Why balance for the people without the needed experience and instead balance for the highest level of play. That would also keep people from abusing the same things on lower ranks.
Thank you for keeping the discussion civil.
The argument I don't like against survivors is that killers complain about BT, and DS.
Two perks that are activated because YOU, ME, as a killer allow them to be activated. Pressuring gens, staying away from the hooked survivor, engaging in different chases essentially make those issues go away on their own.
The survivor basically plays with 2 perks the entire game.
Lmfao are you kidding? Some killers with some builds are just braindead.
Take Huntress with NOED, iri heads, infantry belt and an ebony......soooo hard!!
Not really in my experiance my friend carried me into the red rank i equip 4 second chance perk and let my friend carried me
Survivor need very good map knowledge and tiles knowledge to play. Saying it doesn't require skill just prove you don't play survivor in solo queue.
Most survivor under 400-500 hours cant even loop
Because killer mains are always of the victim mentality. Instead of learning or playing around things they want their hand held and want to cry whenever somebody t-bags them. Survivors are objectively stronger but treating them like this untouchable god force is just dumb. Usually when survivors run full 4-man meta they suck at the game. But the game should be balanced around this type of team you get once every few months. I just find it really funny how EVERY team is a "4-man SWF (with comms) Gen Rushing Death Squad with Purple Flashlights and Full Meta™".
Oh you totally should.
Difficulty and power are not the same axis and being hard doesn't mean they aren't OP.
There lies the problem. I can do the exact same thing, even though I have three times as many hours as killer. It doesn't take skill to run a killer for 5 gens. Just chain tiles together and run an exhaustion perk. That's why I'd like to see more pallets, but fewer safe pallets.
I agree that is a brain dead combo, but again, the devs were saying they'd like to see iri head only down from 32m and beyond. Considering all of the obstacles on the map, they again want you to have streamer quality skill to play a simple add on.
This attitude needs to go. Oh something is broken, but because I only encounter it once in a while, it's not that bad. I don't get that luxury, because for me, the potatoes are the rare ones. I played 10 matches last night, 1 was an easy 3k hatch game.
There's a reason you balance at the top, so you have no one to blame but yourself when something goes wrong.