Pop goes the weasel and DS
Why did it take until a simple number buff for it to quickly become one of the best, if not the best, killer perks in dead by daylight? Was that extra time really all that needed to be changed for it to be viable. Looking at how a simple timer buff on pop made it so good, i think a decent nerf to ds is just nerfing its own timer. Maybe even a small change like 10 seconds less will help it not be anywhere as oppressive as it currently is
Comments
@TransverseCaster
No. I am answering directly to the assumption you pose that for some reason a survivor gains “invincibility” powers. They do not.
If you Are getting hit with DS you are doing something wrong. Why is it that killers in the red rank lobbies I play in know what to do? Seriously it’s not rocket science.
@Sairek
Unbreakable only picks you up once.
Slugging puts you in dying state multiple times.
It is often an abused mechanic by killers. No one that I know runs unbreakable simply because of the recovery rate. It is without a doubt more of a situational scenario than slugging itself which isn’t even a perk, it’s a built in mechanic.
"No. I am answering directly to the assumption you pose that for some reason a survivor gains “invincibility” powers. They do not."
First of all, you're not answering my post directly. You're pigeonholing a different meaning to "invincible". If someone has DS and Unbreakable, they are in fact invincible. They will get up. I never said they couldn't be dropped but that's irrelevant and actually even worse because the killer has to spend more time figuring this all out. You're still wrong because invincible is not the same thing as indestructible, which is what you're thinking of. And no, I assumed nothing and it's already apparent ipso facto how DS exerts invincible situations on the survivor side. If you've been coming to the forums then I know all of the situations have already been explained to you. DS is a broken perk, which does not even have a place in the game since tunneling off hook already has perks to help manage it.
"If you Are getting hit with DS you are doing something wrong."
This was just explained to you. Sometimes survivors are all injured but they're wearing the same costumes so it's impossible to figure out,coming from a corner, which is which. Many times survivors will use this and bait the killer into hitting them while they have this. It's not hard to do at all. Sometimes as a killer it's hard to keep up with how long 60 seconds is exactly. I'm not going to set an egg timer every time I drop a survivor. This statement is patently false, does not take into account the situations in which it is used, and blindly denies the fact that this perk is used incredibly often(I would wager more than any other) and is not so coincidentally the cause of much toxicity. In fact, if you can't hit a killer with DS and you really want to then you are doing something wrong.
@TransverseCaster
So you say “it grants invincibility” but never bother to explain what that means and expect others to just assume you mean something else?
You said “it grants invincibility and rewards survivors for being trash” which is untrue.
How is a survivor who just got unhooked without BT suppose to avoid a hit, when there is nothing around them 100% of the time?
“Oops that Claudette unhooked me without BT and I’m in a dead zone, guess I’m just trash.”
Your bias is showing.
Also if you can’t distinguish between outfits there are survivor icons at the bottomwith names. When you down someone it shows you WHO is currently down. Just a little tip for ya.
Nice joke
You are overreacting and what you described makes me believe your issue is SWF rather than perks. Your situation is no different than 4 casual solos all being slugged by a slugging meta killer with powerful meta perks and ultra rare addons.
It happens on both sides.
"So you say “it grants invincibility” but never bother to explain what that means and expect others to just assume you mean something else?"
No. I expect for you to understand what a no-win scenario is and how being able to stab the killer and restart a chase if he knocks you in 60s would happen. Or the fact that survivors bully killers knowing full well the implications of running this perk, especially if more than one survivor has it activated.
"You said “it grants invincibility and rewards survivors for being trash” which is untrue."
It is completely true. You can play badly, on accident or purpose, and still the perk patches over that. It can flip games by itself. I've had scenarios where the stun alone allows all three survivors to get unhooked, comp a gen, cues an ADR on multiples, and they all get out because one guy hit his DS. I went from a 4k to being teabagged at an entrance for the countdown all because of one perk. Many such games.
"How is a survivor who just got unhooked without BT suppose to avoid a hit, when there is nothing around them 100% of the time?"
Now this is asinine because it ignores:
A) pallets, vaults,windows
B) Perks like Dead Hard, Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Sprint Burst all reset on unhook. Literally just run any one of these. Sprint Burst does enough for me alone.
C) Bodyblocking tactics which are universal against good teams.
D) Flashlights. These were intended to do what DS does but requires some courage and a little bit of placement to use. DS is just insurance for these.
E) Ignores all of the other perks designed to help an unhooked survivor out even though you just mentioned BT, which is an insanely common perk. Other perks include breakout for auto-sabotaging the hook and off the record for stealthing away and letting the other survivor bait.
There's so many things this one comment ignores.
"“Oops that Claudette unhooked me without BT and I’m in a dead zone, guess I’m just trash.”"
If you ignore all five of the things above? Yeah, you probably are trash in this case and it's very easy not to be trash by looking for these five things that can make that situation recoverable without DS. You don't need DS to get away from an unhook. At all. It's a coddling perk for people that like abuse any given situation as survivor.
"Also if you can’t distinguish between outfits there are survivor icons at the bottomwith names. When you down someone it shows you WHO is currently down"
Hold my hand: I was obviously talking about what happens when two people are injured and one person is unhooked. This means they are both in the injured state. This means it's impossible to distinguish if they're wearing the same outfit, which has happened to me quite a few times. Especially when the Feng Min costumes dropped. I've never been so frustrated at something so adorable.
"Your situation is no different than 4 casual solos all being slugged by a slugging meta killer with powerful meta perks and ultra rare addons."
"It happens on both sides."
You're inspiring me in ways I should not be inspired. Tell me more about these addons and meta perks that you find so vexing. Which killer is the most painful with them?
DS needs adjustment. I don't see the issue with pop. Pop only really becomes an issue if your'e too afraid to take a hit and run away instead of committing to the generator. If the generator wasn't that far along, you didn't lose much.
As for DS - I like @ScottJund idea. It SHOULD be made an anti tunnel perk. He recently did a video about it...well, it was partly someone else's idea, but he added interesting aspects to it. Literally every strong killer perk is INSANELY conditional to function, therefore DS should be too, given it's strength.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PugO7ovhaYYEDIT: Also BIG KEKW TO PEOPLE SAYING BBQ IS SOMEHOW OP.
LOLOLOLOLLOOLOLOOOLLOOLOOOLOLLOOLLLLL
@Frankie
I saw this video too and I really like the idea that the timer stops when you get tunnelt and the perk deactivates if you do something like repairing. It’s fair for survivor and killer
Yep; and there's no reason even the most diehard DS users who defend it blindly shouldn't support this either. Since their main argument is always "don't play like a scumbag, don't tunnel". Well hey, those offers total tunnel protection.
That’s right. And I don’t like to get tunneled and have to look at the timer if it make sense to take the hit to use the DS last second
@TransverseCaster
Im going to refrain from saying what I want to say because unlike you, I actually know how to carry a conversation without calling someone “trash”.
I just asked you how do you propose an unhooked survivor who was just unhooked, without BT to prevent them from being tunneled with NOTHING around them, which is very frequent.
You point out 5 things which are not a part of that scenario.
My guess is you don’t. You don’t understand why this perks exists in the first place. How a hook can spawn next to absolutely nothing and how Camping and Tunneling is rampant in this game.
Then again, you are also the one who is using the “I couldn’t tell them apart because of their clothing” excuse. So I wouldn’t expect any less.
Problem is, that there is no really good alternative to PGTW. Dying Light is a contradiction in itself, and other Gen stalling perks are either destroyed in 14s, work only at the beginning, require multiple perk slots to work or are just not good enough.
I know how strong PGTW is on mobility killers (man I play Freddy a LOT) but slower killers need that longer timer. I can understand you want do make it somewhat consistent and like a reward, but that skillcheck mechanic is not working against good Survivors. Same for Overcharge. I hit that skillcheck most times, I only miss sometimes when I'm not prepared for it or if it is one of Doc's Skillchecks where it comes reverse and as soon as it can be. And what is the problem at high ranks? Time. If you are not fast enough to apply pressure or are unlucky to find no one you need every tiny bit of regression you can get. PGTW is the only thing I can rely on to help me going against my time problem even if I do a good job.
The Devs said they'll gonna change the early game (like they did with EGC). Until then, PGTW should stay as it is. But after the rework I am open for changes.
More because it was the only good thing that remained to slow down gens.
The other options require multiple perks, are a contradiction in themselves (DL) or are just not good enough at high level play.
You CAN get cocky plays with DS. Hell I did them and was on the receiving end of those plays too. But these are only EGC cases for me since I do not tunnel early or mid game. I can understand Killer's who talk of an immunity, but you are also right that, as killer, you can always slap the person instead of grabbing them and slug. Except for the locker, but honestly... I'm so glad that you can't get around DS that way.
@Sairek
I'm not denying that Unbreakable has its uses.
I am simply pointing out that yes, more than often slugging is abused. Killers slugging for DS isn't what I am talking about. I'm talking about slugging at 5 gens.
Unlimited Distortion would be incredibly overpowered with Object of Obsession. Their pickrates would outclass BBQ pickrates by a lot, almost everyone would run this combo.
Last night, someone unhooked a survivor in my face.
Being the nice, friendly killer I am, I went after the unhooker rather than the unhooked.
Downed them, and promptly got DStriked.
What a scumbag tunneler I am. 😣
Make it so OoO can't be disabled with other perks.
When did gen slowdown perks get gutted
Other way around OoO should disable a players control inputs altogether and give stealth killers triple BPs.
"Except for the locker, but honestly... I'm so glad that you can't get around DS that way."
This is one of the ways DS is most abusable. AHGHGHAIEAK I hate it so much
DS rewards getting hooked, which is an action that shouldn't be rewarded.
@Sairek
Abusive means that you can literally die from just remaining in a dying state...from how much you’ve been slugged. There are killers who know how much pressure you can create from slugging (that’s great) but doing it over and over without repercussion shouldn’t be a thing IMO.
We can argue that this is a part of the game, but as you just presented an example yourself of what you think could also be abusive, which is also a part of the game. That’s fine, but I wouldn’t say it is comparable considering how difficult it is to get a flashlight save and easy it is to look up and deny a flashlight blind (at least for me).
Anyway, I’m not trying to compare apples to oranges. I am giving you my reasoning as to why I think slugging can become an abusive mechanic.
I just don't like being slugged. And no, I hate Unbreakable. I rarely get to use it so I don't waste a perk slot for it unless there is nothing else I like more. So it's the locker for me.
That sounds reasonable to me - if you are good enough at hard skillchecks then you are rewarded. Isn't that the premise of people defending PGTW? I'm not asking for killers to let survivor do the objective, but removing objective already done is a big issue for fast killers with BBQ. It is borderline OP on a Freddy, but on a Trapper it is meh.
Guess what happens if everyone is constantly running away from a gen when someone is being hooked? The objective doesn't get done - Killer most definitely wins.
"To expect PGTW to be nerfed simply because you want faster games is silly."
Well.
The same could be said about DS: "To expect DS to be nerfed simply because you want to tunnel freely or kill faster is silly."