Survivor sided game. Prove me wrong. I'll respond

emptyCups

Point 1

S-6 obj

So gens are 80seconds each plus 20 for the gate so each survivor is responsible for 105 seconds of an objective or 7 minutes for the group. AT BASE

Killer-12 obj (each hook)

So it all comes down to this 35 seconds for find, a chase, a down and a hook is expected for a killer each time. 12 times with no mistakes to get a 4k win. Dispite how the last guy gets free hatch

Point 2

Survivors have a better field of vision. Killers are locked into a small first person window

Point 3

Survivors have 12 perk slots as team to counter the killers meager 4 slots.

Point 4

Survivors can each bring tools with ultra rare add ons while the killer can at most bring 2 if that killer has that many.

Survivors keep tools and addons at escape while the killer has to grind for his each and every match. Survivors can also gain tools within the match and leave with them.

Point 5

Skill checks have visual and audio cues so after the first few hours of this game you shouldn't miss another one, making them irrelevant because they are so easy.

Terror radius and red stain help survivors locate the killer while the killer only has sounds of repair and crows but he triggers crows himself so they dont often help and take a while to respawn.

Point 6

Teamwork like rotating chases, com communication, hook rush and body blocking are only some of the huge advantages that killers cant compete with.

Rambles.

2k-2E is not how the game is made otherwise we would see the score screen at 2 kills.

Most arguments are modeled upon ranks, time played, or who mains what. I have played since launch and hit every rank on all characters each year I play both sides but 2019 que times have forced me to be killer more often rather then wait 20minutes a survivor match. So so so many stats are missing that players just dont have access too...

but 50% kill rate could mean 3 players get 4-k and 3 players get 0-K.

If you camp or tunnel with mori you can get a 1 kill almost every match. If you bring key or ask friends to dc you can get hatch every match. These do nothing for the quality of the game nor should we discuss balance on that or how top streamers play.

All killer perks have counters but maybe 1 and survivors don't have any perks that can be disabled by common killer action like hexes can.

If I'm missing something or I'm not understanding something please explain it the best you can.

Accullla

@Carpemortum said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1072945#Comment_1072945

So you disregarded what I said.

Read again. The only RNG is when placing the key. Removing the trap is not RNG. Ot has already been decided which box has a key.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm sick of seeing people say pig traps are RNG removal when they're not, and the devs have said so.

It is choice, and probability. Not a 1/5 chance every time you attempt ANY box. Theres a difference.

It seems like you didn't read what I said and not the other way 'round. I acknowledged what you said and even agreed with you to an extend. Your understanding of causality is wrong, but your description of how traps work is correct. If you' re so passionate about semantics and using the correct wording, I suggest giving my previous reply a read.

RngGenerator

No matter how many statistics you put in, no matter how many good points supported with evidence you say, no matter how many community agreed upon things you mention, there will always be an imbalance in this game for various reasons. This game a a new type of sick and it pains me to say that because I do love it. There is so much wrong with it we can't just start saying 'fix this, fix that' we need to take it one step at a time and that won't happen overnight. It will take a long time to get this game to a place that even remotely resembles a balanced state. All we can do is wait and see if the devs are actually paying attention or not and pray that they fix this game one day. It's all up to them and they can't be picking favourites otherwise this will be the end of Dead By Daylight. But that is just my two cents and I may be wrong. Maybe the devs are secretly planning a massive update to the game that will fix it, or they are making a new game to draw everyone's attention away. There's no way to know for sure. All we can do is wait and see.

RKK

@ClickyClicky My braincells are slowly deteriorating from reading your comments

emptyCups

@RngGenerator said:

No matter how many statistics you put in, no matter how many good points supported with evidence you say, no matter how many community agreed upon things you mention, there will always be an imbalance in this game for various reasons. This game a a new type of sick and it pains me to say that because I do love it. There is so much wrong with it we can't just start saying 'fix this, fix that' we need to take it one step at a time and that won't happen overnight. It will take a long time to get this game to a place that even remotely resembles a balanced state. All we can do is wait and see if the devs are actually paying attention or not and pray that they fix this game one day. It's all up to them and they can't be picking favourites otherwise this will be the end of Dead By Daylight. But that is just my two cents and I may be wrong. Maybe the devs are secretly planning a massive update to the game that will fix it, or they are making a new game to draw everyone's attention away. There's no way to know for sure. All we can do is wait and see.

Dead by daylight 2

MegaWaffle

@ClickyClicky said:

It’s objectively killer sided. The stats and data prove this.

Ugh...this is why I don't understand why BHVR released that data.

1: BHVR themselves told us not to take that data to heart as it isn't 100% accurate as specific factors were NOT taken into account.

2: BHVR themselves said they don't have perfect data as there are changes needing to be done for them to gather things more reliably.

For example the Ruin change (supposidly) will actually allow them to see how generator speed affects the game because they could not distinguish this with the old version of the perk.

I really wish they would stop releasing this stuff because people only see what they want to see rather than hearing the whole story.

emptyCups

@Saitamfed said:

Actually the game is not survivor sided but it's bad designed.

I understand your frustration but let me point some "exploits" (if we can call it like it) that survivors take advantage of and the killer's struggle with, taking advantage of such exploits doesn't mean the game favours survivors, because it's not intended to work in that way.

Bad Map design is the best of the examples

Maps are designed for specific killers, those are the ones being released. Let's suppose Sanctum of Wraith, the map was released with Oni as a killer. The map is insanely big so you need a good amount of speed in order to travel fast. Oni has the Demon Dash that allows him to travel fast. We can say that Spirit and Hillbily are good with that map as well because they can travel fast as well, but the map was originally tested with Oni and made for Oni.

Bad Map Tiles

Some tiles are awful. On Wretched Shop, the shop has 4 exits. Two windows and two doors. You have a pallet (not really safe) closer to the smaller door, and one closer to the right window (very safe), so if someone knows what he is doing, you will loss tons of time trying to catch that survivor. And don't let me start talking about infinites

The double window is another barrier that killers struggle with as unless you use a specific perk and pray that it helps, you won't be able to catch up.

Bad Tile Spawn

Some tiles has a safe pallet and spawns next to another tile with another safe pallet. Wich creates a "double barrier" that helps survivors.

Now, some things that make killers suffer as well

Bad bandaid perks

Perks like "Bamboozle" are bandaid for those bad designs. In theory, Bamboozle idea was to help you. Now. Why it doesn't really help? Because as I said, some tiles spawn next to another safe tiles, so if a survivor finds a window blocked, and as the killer has a slower vault speed than survivors, those survivors can move into another safe loop until the block is removed.

How can we make Bamboozle helpful? Well, making that the vault speed faster, like 25% and that the last window you vault remains blocked.

Imagine it, even combined with Fire up tier III and 5 tokens it will make the vaulting speed slighty faster than a fast fault, and we need to think about this, Until the end game it won't have that power.

SWF

Now, this is a touchy subject to talk about, while no one can penalize for playing with friends, it's true that playing with friends has a lot of advantage over random survivors. And... the game is not designed about SWF either.

Super agree !

Game should have SWF in mind tho because it's easy to get a group, just make freinds. Why everyone isnt always a group i will never understand

emptyCups

@rikaa said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1071585#Comment_1071585

There are tons of thing that they need to fix in this game. I am just saying that they wanna balance it. It is not balanced and working on %100 but t I mean since ruin was nerfed at red ranks still killers get 4K or 0K. 2K does not mean that the killer loose or win. But If you get 4K(which is hard at those ranks for killer if they are facing with good SWF team) surelly there must be different rewarding. You may have noed and blood warden so it makes a suprise for the end game. Trust me I have seen lots of matches that we loose at the end. If you make enough pressure on survivors, you may high chance to win even they completed their objectives.

1-

Well If the killer does it without reason and regardless then it is despised by many of them. I am survivor main but I play as killer as well. After I started to play as killer I understand killers and why they tunnel and camp in some scenarious. And I am not mad If I am tunneled and camped. Especially if the gens are popped really fast. I mean it is the way how you play. You need to do the right thing to make pressure without listening everyone. I think in this forum lots of people are killr mains so they will say the same thing about tunneling,camping or sugging. It is allowed in this game and not a ban reason because it is situational tactic. You have an option. So devs do not forbid it but they made perks for survivors to make it harder for killers. I am not telling you to facecamp. But depending on the popping gens, you may try to tunnel. At least, you can hit the unhooked person and let him down(if he has DS), and go after the unhooker. He will stay on the ground and someone will mess with him instead of doing gens. And at that time you will be chasing another survivor. Also you may make far camp and get free hit from the unhooker. I do not know :D It is how I play and how I put pressure on survivors. And in my opinion it works.

2-

For sure killers have to be faster. I am not complaining about it. I just said that there are some game mechanics and basic rules. There are + and - for survivors and killers. And I am not thinking about why. I think they are all okey since I played both sides. I mean if a survivor is injured also he will be bleeding and groaning(if he does not have Iron Will). You can listen voices, sounds and track bloods or stratch marks. But as a survivor, they also need to know where the killer comes from to do something otherwise It makes the game unfair for them. Imagine you are against something that almost knows where you are and you can not understand where it comes from. It would be frustrating. And not only bloodlust, also there is entity block on the windows. You can hide your red stain by moonwalking. These are basic game rules and mechanics that I am used to it. I think they are OK.

3- I know about DS and BT which usually make killers frustrated. But that is how devs make it. They do not completely prevent gen rushing, camping, slugging(they also support it with Infectious Fright and Oni), tunneling. They just make perks to prevent them a little bit for both sides. But as I said, If you put on enough pressure at the beginning that will be better. Instead of hitting the unhooked survivor you may hit the unhooker. You may wait a little bit before hitting the unhooked survivor(untill BT timer will end) then just down him and let him stay on the ground instead of picking(Because of DS). Still good killers do not suffer from DS or BT since they know that to do about it.

4-

You are right. Both of them are changing the the whole game if they are used in the correct way. But in my opinion still moris are better than keys. Because you need to complete 5 gens if there are 4 survivors alive(exit gates are powered in this situation why would use the key and escape from the hatch xD), 4 gens if there are 3 survivors, 3 gens if there are 2 survivors. Also you have to find the hatch. For mori it is enough for killer to hook a surivor for once and then tunnel and you get rid of 1 of them. Well, I do not have problem with moris and keys anymore(I used to be really frustrated and find them unfair :P). I actually find them funny for both sides. They make the game interesting. Especially hatch escapes with key.

5-

I do not know the top 3 killers but probably Oni, Billy and Freddy. But at red ranks huntress is pretty strong even she is slower than other killers. I think fast killers are chosen not because of winning the chases. Because of the gen pressure. Oni, Billy and Freddy are really good to check the gens and put on pressure. I think playing and winning as a killer is usually about putting pressure on survivors. Then other thing just come after it. But still good killers can put pressure on survivors with different killers. Specific builds, add-ons make the game interesting.

Well as it is said, asymmetric. If the game was like CS:GO(5vs5) there would not be any problem. The problem is that is really hard to balance the game for both sides because of its nature. There will be disadvantage for killers and survivors in different topics. For example, 3 people are gen rushed and 1 survivor is caught and camped and died. It is not fair for that survivor. For killer 4 people are doing things together and well-organized. It is unfair for killer but It happens. I think that is because of the game. There will be different advantages and disadvantages for both sides. The game will never be balanced. But at least if people understand each other(both killers and survivors), at least the toxicity and complaints about the balance of the game in this forum will decrease. But for this, people need to get rid of "Killers" and "Survivors" mentality I mean "we" and "they" mentality...

I am glad If I can help or make a different perspective for you. You may check good youtubers,streamers who play as killer main. So you may see different builds and game plays and how the good killers come through some of problems

Thanks bunches

ad19970

@ClickyClicky said:

It’s objectively killer sided. The stats and data prove this.

I would even argue this game isn't as survivor sided as most people believe. But this argument is just so bad honestly. These stats are not representative of the game's actual balance.

kazakun

Seeing so many of you guys comments make me realize how much different the game is on console. I play mainly PS4 because my PC kit is trash. Like "survivors barely ever miss skill checks"...not in my experience. You're lucky to get through a gen without someone messing up, especially if you have 3 people on it. I can't speak much more on too many of the other points, because I'm not red rank. I will say at lower to green,I see a lot of survivors winning,and only certain killers that can excell.