The problem with this suggestion
Too many people are calling for DS to deactivate when another survivor is hooked. This would enable tunneling and make the perk useless.
Survivor gets unhooked, killer downs them, killer downs unhooker, unhooker gets hooked, unhooked gets hooked aka tunneled.
Comments
If the unhooker gets downed right after the rescuer does, then the rescuer made a fucky wucky. Pure and simple.
Hmm?
What I see here is people changing the definition of "Tunneling" to make their arguments stick. this does nothing to make this argument any where close to being worked out. here are the definitions I have seen so far in this thread alone:
1) tunneling is the act of a killer to chase the unhooked survivor immediately, downing them and re-hooking them. (this is the definition I follow)
2) tunneling is the act of a killer re-hooking a survivor quickly (more of a broad redefinition of #1).
3) tunneling is the act of a killer when he follows up to 4 survivors to the point he downs them and hooks them again. (idiotic way to see this but it was one of the ideas)
4) tunneling is the act of a killer who picks up a survivor from a trap they stepped in even if they just got off the hook.
5) (not seen here) following a survivor for a long period of time without even once hooking them till they are hooked
6) tunneling is the act where a killer returns to a hook and downs the unhooker immediately then hooks them, picks up the chase of the unhooked survivor and downs and hooks them again.
so the first thing that must be agreed upon before you can even come close to some sort of conclusion is that the definition of tunneling must be codified in this discussion and then you speak of that definition and make your conclusions there. survivors here and on streams and in game will use many more definitions of tunneling that serves them. the biggest issue is people don't like it because it's not a fun thing but it is not in the rules unless you look at the survivor rule book for killers in which they can do no wrong and killers have to let them go.
tunneling and camping are not sporting, they are not entertaining but they are NOT against any rules. how many people have to be hooked before the person unhooked could be picked up without worry of DS? people are so entitled to winning in this game that has multiple win conditions as defined by the person playing yet it is so bad that people had DS didn't like being in a match with another DS wielding player because if they weren't the obsession they would have to wait 30-40% of the wiggle meter to use theirs. they complained and it got changed. now killers are complaining that it allows people run around without any checks for up to one minute. lets look at what a survivors and killers have to worry about in the match (beyond the obvious don't get caught, or catch etc)
survivors: 1) 4 killer perks, 2) (if solo survivor) what the perks of the other 3 players are, 3) how many gens are left/done (there is a ui indicator for this), 4) how many totems are left on the map, 5) where is the hatch, and 6) is survivor X,Y,Z, or me on 2nd hook or Death hook. (I might have missed some but this seems to be the most of them)
Killers: 1) 4 perks of 4 survivors (16 perks to remember/find out), 2) how many gens are left/done (ui indicator for this), 3) which survivor(s) was unhooked in the last up to 60 seconds (up to 4 different survivors could be in this category), 4) how many totems are removed from the map (if they have noed or other hex perks at all), 5) the hook status of all 4 survivors, 6) where is the hatch.
this means the killers have much more to keep track of and yet survivors get all the timing perks! deep wounds no longer counts down on the killer's ui, pig's traps don't show how much time is left when hats are active, freddy doesn't know when survivors are about to fall asleep. but survivors see all of this plus more (haunted grounds timer is visible on both sides) lots of issues to deal with so define the issue specifically and work out a solution!
If you just unhooked someone and the killer was close enough or had their ability up to be able to do that, then you performed an unsafe save, and that is the resulting punishment for doing so.
I don't see why the Killer should be punished by a perk because you or your team decided to play recklessly?
People don't seem to understand what tunneling is. If somebody else has time to get downed unhooking you, then you have time to get away while the killer is attacking them.
If your mate doesn't have borrowed time, blame them if you get instant downed again. It's still not tunneling if somebody else is deciding to unhook you right in front of the killer. That's just the killer taking the opportunity that's been handed to them on a silver platter. Survivors shouldn't be able to just have hook immunity for a full 60 seconds and act untouchable. It wouldn't be as bad being 60 seconds if the games lasted longer, but in 60 seconds a single survivor can get the majority of a gen complete. Stack that on multiple survivors and then it starts not being about "tunneling" but rather the fact that if most of them have it, then they have huge amounts of time where you really can't do anything but slug them to stop their gen progress. Some will even hide in locks and whatnot just so you can't and you're forced to go for a grab.
It just isn't about anti-tunnel with a 60 second timer. It's been reworked and designed to be an ANTI-TUNNELING perk. When it starts being used for causes beyond that, maybe it's time to realize that it's not exactly in the best state.
I'm not even against the overall effect, but just like Tofu (I think it was him) said, I would just be fine with them taking like 15 seconds off of it so it would be a more manageable 45 seconds or something.
You heard me, big boy.
They just don’t like it because it stops tunneling, which all killers do even if they won’t admit it. If they didn’t, ds wouldn’t be an issue.
So the killer downs 2 people and hooks someone else in the span of 60 seconds and you STILL think you deserve a second chance? Sorry but at some point you have to be held accountable for your ######### ups.
"it gives you the right to stab a killer in his back to escape for 1 minute."
Uh... wow.
Can you imagine if the killer could block off a survivor from working on their objective for 60 seconds by failing at something? 'Cause that's what happens here, the survivor gets hooked and then gets rewarded with 60 seconds of immunity. The thing that maybe comes closest is Blood Warden, but it requires the killer to succeed at hooking someone for it to even activate.
Tunneling sucks and survivors should have something to help them out, but 60 seconds of immunity against a killer who's not tunneling is a lot of power, and when all 4 survivors can equip the perk, it becomes ridiculous.
Also, the devs seem to think that maybe altering DS a bit isn't a terrible idea, because in their recent Q&A https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/123658/live-q-a-recap-january-23rd-2020 they say as much:
"Decisive Strike has already received a substantial cutback, but we have read your concern over the more abusive uses for it and we are considering what can be done to combat that."
Totally agree. If DS were to change like this, it can only deactivate while injured or healthy, NOT while downed. Though, it just brings back slugging for 60 seconds if they do wind up downing you after hook.
I think a better way of doing it would be if you are downed before anyone else is downed and hooked then you still have ds but if someone is down and hooked and then you get downed and hooked you lose ds because that means you weren't tunneled as someone else was chased downed and hooked which would take at minimum 15 seconds and if you haven't gotten away on that amount of time it's your own fault
Yea that would work
I've actually suggested that change and I still think it would be better because it wouldn't activate when you get unhooked but when you get downed so it would only activate if you got downed before any other survivor got hooked and it would potentially activate 2 times per match. Here's my suggestion for what DS should be as an anti-tunneling perk ONLY:
That idea is even worse though? Just because you got someone else down doesn't mean you aren't tunneling. I get tunneling is the new meta for killers but the only anti-tunneling perk in the game not working in some tunneling scenarios just sounds ridiculous to me.
Please read my suggestion first. I don't think you read it. I'm a main survivor and I don't use DS because I think it's a bad anti-tunneling perk. My suggestion is to make it a good anti-tunneling perk and only that. No free escapes at the end... that's what the killers mostly complaint about.
The perk would only activate if you get down before anyone gets hooked but I guess you make a point there so... why not consider DS to be bound to the same hook so, if the killer immediatly hooks the rescuer on the same hook, DS would still activate unless there's only you left unhooked.
What about my idea? DS stays as is except deactivates when you heal, repair, or unhook at all. That means DS can't be used as free objective time or free unhooks.
The problem with that is that the killer can slug you, wait a minute, pick you up and you still got tunneled and ruined the game for you. It doesnt do much if the killer really wants to tunnel you.
You can get picked up while slugged for a minute by a teammate.
Yes, and you can go down immediatly after that like it usually happens because if the killer wants to tunnel, he won't get far while the minute passes. In my honnest opinion, DS will never really be only an anti-tunnel perk and will never really be a good anti-tunneling perk. I don't think they will change it in that regard.
Imagine someone calling it tunneling after the killer downs and hooks another survivor. Just pathetic. Next accusation will be, you are tunneling the survivor team.
The killer doesn't have to chase or down a survivor to hook them. The abuse goes much deeper than this.
How about making it deactiavte when the DS survivor makes any interaction besides chase interactions, self healing or beiing healed but in return for this nerf we also buff it to stop it's timer while killer is in near proximity ?
Just a straight nerf would suffice.