razvicool
razvicool
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015815#Comment_4015815
Hi, I’m part of a group of people that regularly play against each other on both sides in customs doing exactly this; and it is not only a valid strategy, but a fun one when everyone is on the same page.
Tunneling sucks in solo queue because your teammates are potatoes that can’t hold chase, so altruistic counterplay, strategic stealth, and other forms of macro gameplay mean nothing. If every game I played was versus a tunneling killer but everyone on my team knew what to do, I would have zero issues with it.
I’m sorry you don’t find it fun but that doesn’t mean no one here can recognize it as a strategy.
@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4015845#Comment_4015845
Exactly this!
When everyone in a match is of a similar skill level and mindset, then tunneling is VERY counterable. The only reason so many people think it is insurmountable is because this game does a very bad job of matchmaking people of appropriate skill levels and attitudes together, and so you get solo queue teammates who don't have any idea what they're doing, or just give up at the slightest inconvenience. It follows that the logical solution is to address matchmaking, so people are matched with suitable teammates and opponents, instead of trying to twist the fundamentals to handhold weaker players.
Identifying and exploiting your opponents' weak spots is the key to basically ANY PvP game. If you leave your pieces hanging in Chess and they get taken, no one would argue that your opponent was playing unfair/mean/its not a valid strategy/rushed their objectives. It's simply how the game is played, and DbD operates on much the same principle. So often when Survivors in my matches complain of "tunneling", they actually just left their pieces hanging. Healing under hook, taking aggro while on death hook, body blocking with their post-unhook protections etc. Learning how to not make yourself a target for tunneling, is an important skill for Survivors. And protecting your teammates in the event they DO get targetted is an equally valuable skill, but no one seems interested in learning it.
Too many people seem to have forgotten that Survivor is a team role, and are only interested in their own Survival.
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond with quite a bit of an explanation, both of you. Since I started playing less frequently I mainly play as a duo when playing survivor (I would say I play both roles equally, but just have more survivor matches as it's the only mode to play with friends, excluding 2v8). I understand the group example however consider the difference, as you've said, not only the survivors are on the same page, but also the killer. You choose to play that way. You are a group which shares the same knowledge pool. In a team of 4, I have confidence we have a chance even in the most dire situations, as leads can be gained and lost at any time. As @OnryosTapeRentals pointed out, the matchmaking does not do a decent job at selecting participants to a match. It's crucial to consider the most played contexts and the largest sample, solo queues (statistically I believe every game is played by more solos than groups of 2+). The game requiring coordinated play more and more is not healthy for its continuity. If you play a lot of killer or often in groups, you will not fairly notice how difficult it is to keep someone alive when the killer actively tries to tunnel. You cannot inform the tunneled survivor you are trying to help, you cannot coordinate gen work and heals without wasting large amounts of time which will give the killer a massive lead anyway and you cannot help the tunneled survivor in many ways without massives drawbacks to yourself. I understand there are perks for these situations, however if it comes to everyone running the same perks just to avoid these situations, the game already failed.
You were right, I was and am wrong, tunneling is completely valid if you play killer or are part of a full squad, however I continue to believe what will become of this game if this becomes the usual, will be something no one will enjoy anymore. -
I doubt you do. You think you do if you play only killer and are having fun doing this, but if the game just turned to a race of gen rushing against a tunneling killer, you would soon realise you won't enjoy that.
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I didn’t notice anyone saying this, but you also get rift fragments from levelling up. 5 levels are a rift level and you level up pretty quickly.
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I agree with you. It is what it is. What's your opinion on faster search times but less accuracy?
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@ShadowNurseZFX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677919#Comment_2677919
Dude, your crying about a killer that hasn't been released for a week yet. just let her solidify in the meta before asking for nerfs. Oh, and 3 blink nurse is way more op than the artist lol
No, you got me wrong, you are right in everything you said, at least in the OP and this reply (didn't really read all comments). She does not need a nerf per say, or maybe it is a nerf I dunno, but for her to not be able to chase into crows, so like she either tries to get you with them or a normal attack, not both options being available at the same time. Of course a 3 blink nurse is more OP, or rather, the actual OP out of the 2, but at least you can run left right, try something. The mechanic I'm talking about it's just broken.
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The fact a lot of people just spam her crows and try to only get hits this way and it works is pretty ridiculous already, but what I really want to know is what to do in the situation where she puts a crow which would damage you if you run forward and she is coming from behind. Her power button release period is way too short, just like The Executioner, except she can hit you from any 3 directions she has set up. She has the same benefits the trapper, executioner and nemesis have, all in one and all better. She definitely needs adjustments. I would rather play against 3 blink nurses than this poorly designed killer.
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So a bit of recap and short explanations along with my opinions, hope they help:
- Dead Hard needed validation because the survivor being chased and the killer might not have the same connection stability, therefore the server now decides the outcome based on the first command it receives, the hit or the dead hard. In my opinion this is how it always should have been. I see some of you see it this way, but I don't understand what the others are complaining about, this is not a buff, it's simply punishing the players with a bad connection to the match. It happens to everyone, regardless of your usual connection stability.
- Despite the above, some have a valid complaint. The validation follow up is not the same as the scenario in which dead hard is used in due time and both players (the chased survivor and the killer) know what happened. I will explain using one of the two occurrences I saw being discussed most. If you are close to a pallet and a Nemesis tries to whip you, using dead hard shall prevent you from taking damage and the tentacle shall break the pallet (assuming both you and the pallet were in the whip's trajectory), essentially creating a "Miss" event. With validation however, neither happens, because paired with validation, dead hard completely negates certain damaging actions. This, of course, is a problem. I personally think they added unnecessary rules to the validation, using reversals or something different, rather than simply awarding immunity if dead hard was used first as decided by the server. I think this would also prevent the survivor from screaming for no reason, as the hit never happened, even though the attack did.(this is what I edited in the post, I felt it was important to make a clear difference between the attack and the hit as it seems they are the same thing in some scenarios).
- Some posts don't seem to fit quite well in this discussion as they twist from validation being a buff or not (it isn't), to dead hard's balancing. Simply put, this has nothing to do with the discussion that was started, just borrowed elements.
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Having taken a break from DBD for my other main game and life in general, I have to say I'm glad I kept my MMR medium. The game went from having the occasional cheater to being absolutely infested and I mean pests squeezing to death behind the walls infested. That's not even the ridiculous part. Any game could start being the victim of a new hack at any point. The ridiculous part is how long it takes for cheaters to get banned and how little of a priority it is for BHVR to change to a different Anti-Cheat system or make their own. I understand I can't say for sure what their priorities are or aren't, but realistically, it's been a long time since this infestation has been on the rise. Either way, the amount of time they are taking to solve an issue of this nature is indecent.
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So, I was just about to make a post about this topic and saw this one. Regardless if it is directly related to SBMM or there are other factors too, queues have become longer for killer. Also regardless of SBMM, I do not see a reason for MM to take this long before it expands the search to other MMRs and/or regions. Already at 10PM for me, it takes 10-15 minutes to find a game as the killer and it accurately is only 1 out of 10 lobbies that is made of people from Europe and at my mmr. Even if you were looking to challenge my accuracy or/and the size of my example, the majority by far, are lobbies with people from other continents or/and lower mmr. So if the outcome is the same for such a large majority of lobbies, how about shortening the process?
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Queues are very long for no reason, still being matched against players who have less hours than me combined as killer and killers uncapable to loop. It's not protecting newbies and making queues too long for some.
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While it is their product to do as they please with and I don't agree with demanding anything from a developer, I always thought:
Why don't you guys tell them what a win is? Why are you, the players making so many posts about what you want or don't in the game say something like:
Example raw post: I think a win is escaping the trial OR running the killer for most of the match (whatever number of minutes you, the player, see fit) OR, what I think is the best answer for a win, having close to 0 seconds wasted in the match, always on a gen or healing a player or the killer chasing you. Of course sometimes you need to hide, but the better a player manages his/her time in this game, in my eyes the better that player is.
For killer, since you are 1vs4, you are solely responsible for the progress you make in the match. For my matches I go for a minimum of 2 kills with as many hooks as possible, but although maximum is 12, I would never go for more than 10, 9-10 is my sweet spot. As long as gates havent been opened, for me that is perfect, regardless of how many gens have been repaired or progress on the gates.
I mean, to me it's pretty clear that a lot of players don't just want to ride the wave of whatever BHVR wants to make the game into, hence the majority of forum posts are negative, but asking BHVR continuously about something until you get the answer you want seems less productive than telling them what you want.
I hope this makes sense, tag me if something is not clear or has logic holes.
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I just really hope escaping is not a factor because I played 6 matches today, all after SBMM launched, with all 6 having a very clear pattern. My teammates do corner gens first, getting dangerously close to the last 4 gens being in close proximity and then everybody is too scared to work injured or/and waste too much time for that scenario. My teammates have been mostly unexperienced, getting downed very early or making little use of pallets, therefore wasting resources rapidly and at an early stage, which only reinforces the scenario previously mentioned. It's a huge pain to go through these matches first, but at least it's understandable, but if I have to escape these matches too, the game is just not designed to allow me to do that. I cannot even try for hatch because killers slug to ensure all 4 kills and while I do have the option to pick-up my teammate or do the last generator, that's mostly on paper. It doesn't really work in an actual game (at least not to create a comeback, definitely not against what is supposed to be a fair adversary).
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Their system might be creating a base mmr for survivor and each killer depending on your stats/rank so far.
Then, by playing your main killers, you are expected to reach higher ratings and so do the better survivors.
Finally, after what could be a few days or even 2 weeks, we might see a proper distribution.
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@lordfart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456319#Comment_2456319
But this is not a board game with your friends.
True. The point was that, you don't need to be taught to not just quit playing, because it's pretty obvious that nobody wants to play with you anymore if you do, at least that's how I see it. In online games you can't know who you play with, therefore I think developers should, in general, create a system that keeps those players away from you.
Also, I don't think I'm taking it too far. For example, I'm playing DBD right now, the 2 matches before the one I just played, in the first I died on the first hook while everyone was still alive AND I brought a BPS, and in the second I got tunneled. ALL these things are fair play, the killer can camp and tunnel me all day and if my teammates are scared now, maybe they will learn in the future or maybe they had a reason, who knows. These games I can get past no problem, if I start to hate these things, I can quit the game and there is no need to complain to the developers or anyone else, unless I am asked. In these games I gave my teammates the chance to do gens and escape, why would I decreases their chances at a good match because the killer focused me and I was unable to stay in chase longer?
The common term for these players in all games is "sore losers" and I think it is always fair to not want to play with or against such players.
The main difference between a board game with my friends and DBD (or any online game) is that although I can choose not to play with someone because of their playstyle in real life, I shouldn't be able to block camping or tunneling killers, therefore cherry picking who I play with.
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@WaveyTrey said:
Nah. Because when I’m Red Rank Killer the survivors stay no matter how bad the game gets. They sit there until struggle phase. They hit every skill check until their team gets gens done (If they aren’t trying to rescue). Even cross platform players that came in one at a time does this. Even after being slugged early they’ll try to kobe!
Then the moment I’m Solo Q everyone quits. You could be WINNING, and the survivors QUIT because they felt like a vault/pallet stun should’ve landed. Not even on 2nd phase. They D/C. Then we all die, and depip. I don’t mind losing/depip. It’s the fact I didn’t get any BPs, and survivors are scarce on BPs as is (Unless you run WGLF, Prove Thyself, and No One Left Behind). I wasted 15 mins and only got 10k BPs when I could’ve easily gotten 40k had the match played out.
I’ve seen entitled players quit for the dumbest of reasons and then the killer shows no mercy. So no. Penalize the quitters more.
@Kazim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456319#Comment_2456319
Yes, in reality one must accept if the game does not go as one wants, sometimes the killer has lucky and gets many hooks at the beginning and he can kill someone at the beginning, but well that's how it is dbd
Further good points, thank you for the contribution.
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@ukenicky said:
I feel like the only people who want this kind of thing in place are killers who don't want survivors to kill themselves on hook to give the last survivor a chance at hatch.
Considering how long it takes to die, killers still have a pretty good chance at finding the last survivor or the hatch and it's seriously not that big of a deal.
As for survivors who give up on first hook yeah that is annoying. I hate when that happens to me in solo queue but tbh I've learned my lesson to not play solo queue. It's just not worth it most of the time 🙁
Tl;dr if people want to give up that's their choice to do. Would you rather they DC? You'll probably complain either way so what's the use.
So let's see. It still just as ugly to see it, but it doesn't affect me as killer, I let the others farm a little more then continue the match as normal.
Doing it to let the only other survivor left to get hatch is, I think, a very nice thing to do, so yeah that should be allowed, maybe.
For me, it would make a difference, because I think this way "Fine they 'ruined' my match, but if they 'ruin' the next one and the one after, they are not playing for the rest of the day". You get the point. I believe this decreases the chance I will encounter someone who gives up. Even if max penalty was 30 minutes, so many would either not want to wait that long for another match so might as well try in the current one, or take a break for a while (unlikely to take exactly 30 minutes for a break). It's better than nothing.
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@Kazim said:
If I´m the killer and I have a lot of hooks at the beginning I let them repair me a little to long the game, but when I go against a bubba or a killer that tunnels and kills at the beginning to a fast one I feel sorry for my teammates but you do not want to play, I guess I should take those games more relaxed and continue despite the result but it is irritating.
I think I understand perfectly what you mean. I'm not saying it is always pleasant to continue and I do get that you want to have fun when playing a game, not endure a negative feeling. Once again, I would like people to think about a board game with your friends, it's just not fair for you to stop playing because it's not going the way you wanted.
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@Duke_Ragereaver said:
i reserve my right to suicide on the hook if the whole rest of my team is on death hook and the only gen that popped is one i did. if you try to take that away what even is the point of a video game? its crappy when it happens, yes, but the simple truth is there is nothing realistically that can be done. if a system is put in place to stop this, it would only punish legitimate players that just got tunneled to death, so not only did they not get to have any fun in the game, now they have to wait 5 mins before they can even try to redeem it.
I agree, another good point, that's something a bit different then just giving up right from the start. Again, I don't know how an automatic system would tell the difference, but it's something to consider.
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@ImBrakingBike said:
And how do you determine the survivor gave up? There is a counter to suicide on the hook, you can rescue the person before they die. The first stage goes quickly yes, but the second takes a little longer. You can't penalize a survivor for attempting to unhook themselves because there are achievements for that.
Indeed, that's why I never demanded that a good system comes out immediately nor do I claim to have such a design. I do wish that the developers are on it, that they didn't just put the mentioned system in place and left the matter at that.
I do hope however, that you can agree, immediately attempting to escape 3 times, then failing both skill checks (again, TWO skill checks) which are really easy, in a row, is 90% a give up. Maybe that percentage is lower up to rank 10, but I would say it's closer to 100% at rank 1. However it is never 100% accurate, because there could be someone disabled trying to do an achievement/challenge and actually failing those skill checks unfortunately, due to their handicap, or other scenarios which don't come to mind now. I would say it's not fair to use any system which puts unable people at risk, but once again, I would like to see them try to create one which can actually detect players giving up.
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@JHondo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456233#Comment_2456233
Didn't you know? Taking an L in a video game because of something completely out of your hands will actually literally ruin your life.
To the point of the thread, there have been times I went to give up and got rescued (because you can't immediately give up anymore) but I begrudgingly continued the match and won. There have been times I've done it out of spite for my other survivors either because of sandbagging or prioritizing/ignoring gens and there have been times I've done it to prevent the killer from tunneling me.
Even with the DC penalty I will still on occasion DC because I need to leave for real world reasons or I've loaded into a match that I shouldn't have readied up for in the first place and just close the application because it's better for my mental health to take a step back and do something more productive with my time. Because in the end, it is my time.
I think we both know that first line didn't really need to be there for any reason at all but oh well.
You were probably writing as I made the above comment, but I think we are on common ground on many points. I don't think you should be banned for leaving. I think 5 minutes is perfectly fine for the first disconnect, no need for it to be longer, but it clearly should be if you continuously disconnect because you don't like how your matches start.
A real life emergency is actually a great example of why you should either use the leave trial button or just go AFK. You are clearly giving up if you let the killer hook you, attempt to escape on your own and then go AFK for the skill checks. If anything that's what should be penalised the most.
Once again, I agree, the issue is not pressing, but I do think I would have been more content with no penalties whatsoever than what we have now. If they just spent their time on something else entirely rather than doing something halfway, which definitely could be observed in future dealings with game issues.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2456220#Comment_2456220
I fail to see how someone leaving a game prematurely is such a pressing issue, it can certainly sway the game's balance if done really early but even then, it's a game, it's not like you actually lose your life if you die, just move onto the next match.
Oh, I see, you got a point of course. Indeed it's not a pressing matter per say. However it apparently was important enough for them to work on a penalty system, but they did only do half the work, or less. It is important, to me at least, to know how these situations are dealt with. Are they leaving this ticked box behind for now, because they've done some work on it, or are they coming back to finish the work all the way. What happens when they do only half of the work on another issue, which everybody thinks is pressing.
To correct myself on the previous comment, you are right, you should be able to leave a match and close the game whenever you want, but in my opinion, not ever without a penalty. A popular battle royale attempted to create a "forgive" system for crashes, which was abused for a while, not sure how it's doing now.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
They get a penalty that increases the more they do it and they double de-pip
Yes, that system is indeed alright. But I am wondering if the developers realise people can just get hooked and give up to bypass it, on survivor.
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@indieeden7 said:
People have the right to remove themselves from the game if they want to, get over it.
First of all, opportunity. Not right, not privilege.
Second, you shouldn't have the opportunity to do that just because you alone think the match is doomed to have a bad outcome.
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I'm really starting to think that nobody is actually getting banned from this game. The number of daily active players is closer to being a constant than a variable. How does that happen with this kind of community?
Dead by Daylight is by far top 2 most toxic games I've ever played, definitely not top 1, but also not top >_3. Point is, this community is full of disgusting, frustrated people, with the largest majority of it being people who say "This is fine".
Too many players act like if there are 200 wholesome streamers or partners that pardons the thousands who might very well be psychopaths.
Nothing significant is being done.
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SBMMR was absolute garbage for me.
Survivors were always varied, because let's face it, sometimes you want to play chill, but I cannot describe the level of troll and moronity (no idea what the word is) in sbmmr matches.
Killer matches same thing but different problem, I don't want to finish the match in 3 minutes and have every single match be like that. Before, it was the first 2 matches per killer then low hours rank 1s and then proper games.
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Hellraiser came out in 1987
Edit: Posted late, been said before, can't delete, hotel? trivago
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This was actually a nice post. There is definitely something nice about the community speculating on the next DLC along with these clues.
OP just brought up interesting points of view, but some of you just had to turn it again into a "who I WANT to see next" discussion.
Some of you do not even read, leave alone understand the post. What happens when a post is more than a few lines long? 😂
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@some_guy1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/271989/killer-able-to-chat-in-lobby
was the killer a hacker?
That is not something I would know nor something I could find out by legal means.
If however you mean, did the killer cheat during the match?; He/She disconnected before interacting with us, roughly 15 seconds into the match.
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@Crowman said:
Just so you know Windows Store shows up as crossplay but is another pc platform that can chat. Crossplay does not automatically mean console.
There's also Stadia.
There was no indication that crossplay means console, but thanks.
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He needs to be slower while getting ready to hit with the tentacle.
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Yeah man, the guy I learnt the above from, had the same problem and I assume OP too since he didn't realise what the effect was.
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That's also what I heard, shows aura of the crown from about 8 meters. Wasn't working yesterday if true. For me this info makes sense but again, only what i heard from others.
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Further I think it's worth mentioning that my girlfriend plays DbD on PS4 or better said, as many of you have, used to play, because now as soon as the game starts the PS overheats to the point it restarts and we clean and maintain it, just like I do my PC. However, even then, the money she paid for this product did not guarantee her entertainment without problems, which is important to say, are being worked on. Yes, you are free to express that they take too long and it's annoying, but demanding them be done faster is not helping.
I would like to also comment, with very little detail I admit, on some things:
Having a few bugs here and there does not make the game "unplayable", this word means something completely different.
Crashes and instability are unfortunate and I believe you if you say it happens to A LOT of people, but given how many still play I think it is very, very likely it's some kind of compatibility players are experiencing which is not just the devs' fault.
A lot of people seem to twist the "don't demand" "don't be rude" parts into "don't complain". If you have a better idea of how I could edit my post to reflect that better or improve it, honestly, please do let me know.
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@Yamaoka said:
Well, this thread backfired, didn't it ?
I think it's alright.
A good amount of comments, some worth the read, even an upvote. See, I would say most people here disagree with what I said, not quite with the topic precisely. And hey I didn't make my post extremely precise and explanatory so I got no right to say anything on the comments. But here, I see alright comments, nothing too rude, nothing wasting my time, at least a little detail. That's not really the case with the forum.
I think it's at the very least better then assumptions on company assets and demands on how they should be spent.
I don't think it's wrong to complain, I think as a community we need to complain in such a way that there is no reason to not be listened to. Demanding will not help, being rude will not help, basing outcomes on fiction will not help.
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Wow, why is this thread filled to the neck with negativity? Dudes and gals, everyone gets it, it's the big anniversary and we could have bigger party, but it's a party nonetheless. The extra BPs from cakes are not to fix any kind of grind, I don't really get what some of you need so many BPs for. Fully prestige-ing all characters and getting all perks on all characters is not a requirement and while this is the upper limit, you have to get nowhere close to this, basic perks are good enough, you always get some sort of build out of a few pages of bloodweb, you just have to explore and not tunnel vision on your build and I'm saying this so it's more chill for you in the long run.
AAAAAAND yeah, some new stuff in the game, little here little there, but hey it's something to do, just be grateful. The game is not expensive and each chapter it's worth the money for what you get. I'm not saying don't hope for better, don't wish, but don't expect or take for granted.
Happy anniversary and try to have fun.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2261625#Comment_2261625
Hate to break it to you, but a killer that removes all form of counterplay isn't balanced at all. There's a reason she's been considered the best killer since her release. She does need a complete overhaul as the ability to go through walls will never be balanced.
The balance comes from her having a very high skill cap. She is the best if you can play her better than the knowledge of the survivors you are up against about looping her. Did you even bother to read the comments of many before you? I really don't think you played her nor against her enough to comment on whether she needs a nerf or not. That or you, as you've displayed with your comment, don't really absorb any information and just tunnel vision on what you know.
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Ah, yes indeed. Thank you. That's truly my bad, should have checked.