nskc
nskc
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@StibbityStabbity said:
I think the issue is that people wanted to see Moris have a use outside of "Look at my character put things in your character". They wanted Moris to have a place in a strategy. They wanted Moris to give an edge like some other offerings do (think fog density and what have you). Before, Moris were broken and gave the Killer the macth, along with SICK AND STYLISH animations. Now, they give the ladder, but no other real benefit. Sure, they could be useful, but the scenarios where a Mori would be more strategically sound compared to a hook is going to be very rare (mostly deadzones with no hooks).
Personally, I never use Moris unless its for a daily. I don't mind the nerf one bit. That said, I can see why some people would be upset with Moris no longer giving ANY kind of real strategic advantage. Sure, the previous one was OP as balls, but the current version has no real strategic value at all. Maybe if the animation revealed auras for 5 seconds, or caused global skill checks on gens or something. Anything to give it some kind of value other than an animation.
Also, we don't know what will happen to Keys. If they lose their strategic value entirely as well, then it won't be so bad. Maybe both will be flourishes more than strategic offerings. Who knows?
Hey--just wanted to say that I very much agree with the majority of what you said here, with one exception; being able to kill everyone after 2 hooks is kind of the opposite of rarely strategically useful. If you're using BBQ, sure, but even considering the length of some Mori animations there are plenty of times I would rather kill someone directly without hooking them. I would argue that it's still functionally one of the strongest killer offerings, just not broken like it was before the change.
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I think that after a certain amount of time has elapsed in the match, survivors should be able to forfeit/give up and get whichever emblems and however many bloodpoints they've earned up to that point.
If the killer wants to leave someone slugged to go for an easier win, fine. To me it's a little bit sweaty, but it's not unreasonable. But no one should be forced to participate in a game that's no longer fun for them--the fact that there's no way to leave a match without DC'ing, and that there's a DC penalty, means you're essentially held hostage. If a player leaves, it should count as a sacrifice and also towards Adept achievements.
This goes for killers, too--there have been plenty of times when I get a couple of early kills, maybe at 4 or 5 gens, and the remaining two survivors just hide and refuse to do objectives. I'd much rather leave a game like that than play it out, and killers should have the option to forfeit as well.
People would probably leave games fairly often, sure, but if the game is going poorly enough that people would rather leave than keep going, who benefits by forcing them to continue? I'd much rather be in a tightly contested game that's interesting enough that everyone wants to stick around, instead of wasting my time playing a drawn out, mediocre game where people are only sticking around because they don't want to depip and lose all their bloodpoints.
At the very least, if someone DC's at any point during the first 5 minutes of the game, everyone should at a minimum safety pip and have the option to leave immediately without penalty.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1796154#Comment_1796154
so they will slug and then hook. there already is a a time limit victor can be out and not controlled, there are several ways that survivors can get victor to go back including the kick, pallet and after 45 seconds of being on their back. you want to hamstring someone even more? wow.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1796104#Comment_1796104
I did not say anyone with anything critical to say about the game should leave but instead I said if you were bored with the game then leave. why play a game that is boring to you? It seems that you are the one that is not being open minded. You can be critical of the game and still be respectful (people are very disrespectful here on the forums, please note I did not say you were), you can make suggestions without being flippant, and discuss things without wanting to insult others. I did not insult you and yet you are the one telling me how I am thinking. If no one has anything but anecdotal information then you are one too. What is fun for you may not be fun for me and the same vice versa, you can not dictate to me what fun should be like and I never did that what so ever I only talked about what I know and have seen here on the forums.
Speaking of Stealth game play and what people find exciting to watch that is a laugh though because I love stealth game play. why? because it's a challenge to stay unnoticed. and there is an emblem that even talks about not being seen by the killer and it only takes into account the idea of winning a chase yet how is that "not seen" by a killer. I will go in, save, heal, gens, totems, get in chases etc as I see it is needed. many times the killer is hooking someone on the other side of the match and i'm on a gen, when i get off the gen to go safe they are almost immediately rescued and i then have to go back to my gen. then I have to move to another gen once that one is done and move on. As killer the only stealth that irritates me is the fact that two people decide that they should no longer further the game and they stealth and take the game hostage at that point because a killer that isn't doc can't flush them out. Now about people "WATCHING" the game, that's great they want to see chases, jukes and mind games but I don't play by who is watching me play I play the way I feel is necessary. oh and about stealth again when it's the final one AND the killer there is the hatch open that the killer can close to push the game to a closure because of EGC but when there are 2 and they aren't working on gens anymore then why should it be ok to hold the game hostage just to try and win?
and you know your feelings is inline with over 30K or more of the player base? or just the ones that post here? and to be honest I've seen streamers talk about this and they don't camp or proxy camp the hooks and they do just fine with the twins. I've got over 3K hours in the game and as you said I feel my ideas are inline with over half the player base because they mirror many people that talk here, many streamers and people that I know. as to camping, did I say it was healthy? I did not I said it was allowed just like slugging, just like tunneling and honestly if I need to put pressure on someone i'm going to do what I need to in order to bring the game to a close, I personally don't see what face camping does though unless you have insta downs to multiply your hooks. proxy camping is a lovely term, I will hook someone and if I suspect someone is in the area I will check all around and then finally leave when i clear the area. That is just being smart not camping what so ever yet I'm a camper when I do that. I think you and I can claim to be in tune with over half the player base but it's a baseless claim because you don't know the mind of over 30,000 people and the number here on the forum number about 1-10% of the active player database. I placed my claim solely to show you how ridiculous that claim is, not that I think that to be hones and I showed how it is here as well. I think you may have hit the nail on the head saying that it's almost pointless to talk to someone who won't consider opinions of other people which you are not doing when you summarily dismiss mine by saying that i'm not engaging, that I'm saying whataboutisms (as you say) and totally and utterly intentionally misreading my statement to make your statements and opinions more truthful. You will notice that I did not do that with you I just discussed your points with my counter points. enjoy!
See, thing is, you're still not engaging with what I'm saying. Your counterargument to what I'm saying about balance issues is "well, I have fun and think it's fine, so there!" That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't claim that you're making "counterarguments" or advancing the discourse, because you're really not. I'm not trying to be flippant, and I'm not trying to insult anyone; you're the one who replied to me with a wall of text and basically said (whatever you claim) that I should "leave the game if I'm so bored" which you'll note is something I never said. It's like you're arguing with some alternate reality version of me that's saying all these things that I haven't said (strawman, anyone?)
You don't need to spend a paragraph rehashing what I said about the pointlessness of arguing with someone who has a completely opposing and entrenched viewpoint in the absence of any hard evidence (actually, even in presence of hard evidence people with opposing viewpoints aren't really much better at convincing the other one to change their views).
Have a good day.
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@VexTheHex said:
Heal.
I been playing them pretty much nonstop. Heal. That's what you need to do. I know Survivors are neck deep in the gen rush and no heal meta, but that's how you stop Victor from snowballing. Or buddy up. David and Steve together? Victor slaps Steve down. David rushes over and turns him into goop with a kick. Big Sis has to be close to stop David from healing Steve back up off the ground. Or else she'll have to start making her way over. Steve dodges the little gremlin? Now he's goop at Steve's feet and David is still doing the gen.
Most matches that I get a snowball with Victor is cause the Survivors are too greedy for the gens to bother healing and get caught out. It's more so the Survivor's fault than the Killer's.
This is a good point, and coordinated teams have more they can do against the Twins, but good luck in solo Q where red ranks are dropping pallets on Legions in frenzy. Also, I've seen a lot of Twins running sloppy and ruin undying, which pretty much counters the "just heal" strategy. None of this addresses the fact that the Twins, when played optimally, camp or proxy camp every single hook.
Also, if survivors are "dodging" Victor with any regularity that Twins player is doing something wrong.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1796004#Comment_1796004
pyramid head and deathslinger have powers that make them unfun and noninteractive to play against for survivors you too should be careful what you are saying, *I PERSONALLY*, as well as many of those I play with and talk with, enjoy going against these killers as it helps hone skills of avoidance and escape. You may not like them but hey guess what! you are not everyone and you can not speak about everyone (your statement litterally included me and others that do have fun with these killers on our tail which is incorrect). I included oni and spirit because people complain about them being unfun, broken, and other things. I was being a generalist where as you went to the specific. I also have fun against iri head huntress, I treat it as a challenge to dodge as I can and if i'm downed i'm downed.
This is a game. if you are finding something unfun, please feel free to move on to something that will give you the fun. Overwatch from my understanding is not fun to many now, but still there are those that are having lots of fun with it. I am gonna be blunt here but I don't see the "slow throttling" what I do see is a great deal of survivors complaining and they are hardly touched (but still touched none the less) while killers are given mediocre abilities unless you are high tier capability, as well as things that just do not help while the survivors get all the tools to win but we are told to deal with it. then these topics come along and it always devolves into the same thing "killer main" vs "Survivor main" and yes you have brought up both sides in your post I will acknowledge that and applaud you for that because not many here do. I also will admit your brought up more things, but some items you brought up end up being ignored and rarely does anyone outside of the killer main group say that DS needs to be changed, so be aware of what things happen here but you were not one side or the other which is very refreshing.
You type a lot of words, but in the end you're refusing to engage with the substance of what I'm saying, and instead you're offering all these whataboutisms and the classic "if you don't like, it leave." I'm not actually ready to leave the game, thanks, I still find it fun--it's just certain killers I don't enjoy playing against as a survivor, which is what we're talking about here. Is it your position that anyone with anything critical to say about the game should just stop playing? That's not a very productive attitude, friend.
I'm sorry to say, but in my experience--and again, nobody has anything but personal/anecdotal experiences to draw on here, it's not like anyone's taken a poll of the entire playerbase--survivors playing at a reasonably high level don't enjoy playing against the killers I've mentioned, for one very simple reason.
They take chases, which are the primary form of interactive gameplay you have as a survivor, and make them far less interactive (read: less options, less mindgames, less to do) than other killers. I'm glad you manage to find it in you to take even broken mechanics like iridescent heads and find something to have fun with, but do you really think you're anything but a tiny minority in that sense? Similarly, I'm glad you can play against killers like deathslinger and pyramid head who have no real counterplay in chases and practice your skills of "avoidance and escape." There are many players--killers included--who, to put it very plainly, despise stealth gameplay. If you look at the kind of content that people like to watch, which I think is a decent metric for what keeps people interested in the game, I don't think you'll find many stealthy highlight compilations. You'll find good chases and jukes. People aren't putting thousands of hours into this game to hide in a bush.
And we haven't even touched on the fact that the Twins are actively encouraged to facecamp or at least proxy-camp every single hook by design. Are you seriously going to argue that that's healthy for the game?
I'm not sure us continuing to discuss these issues is going to be productive, because my experiences and knowledge of the game and playerbase is telling me that these killers are unfun to play against for the reasons I've outlined, and yours are telling you the opposite. In the absence of hard data, we're at an impasse.
That said, from everything I've heard, seen, watched, and experienced, I think how I feel is more in line with how the majority of the playerbase feels. But since I've got no way to convince you and you have no way of convincing me, I'll leave it at that.
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@Freki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795278#Comment_1795278
Soul Guard, tap's perk that lets you crawl faster and recover at the same time combined with unbreakable there is always no mither, unbreakable and that's all I can think of at this moment but there are things to do that could easily help and if you don't know them why are you even complaining since you apparently only know the few things you use and don't care anyways. still it's better than some of the killers have.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1795453#Comment_1795453
thing is for every 4 players playing survivor there is one player that is playing killer. are the killers supposed to just roll up and let the survivors win every time? let me guess this is along the lines of iri head hatches, billy and bubba, ONI and Spirit and Nurse as well... lets just get rid of the ones people don't like to play against. well if that's the case, lets get rid of things the killers don't like to play against. we are playing a game with two sides, doesn't matter that 4 people don't like what 1 person does, because there are thousands of players playing killer and thousands of players playing survivor. many of those play both sides. so you can't make it a he said, she said issue (or what ever pronouns you want to use) but you know it's always this is tooo hard for survivors, yet I see survivors getting out, i wonder why that is if this is such an issue. I'm not saying that it's perfect as it is FAR from perfect, but you place too much emphasis on one person when it's other people that also factor into the issue.
You're assuming a lot, friend.
Oni is fine. Spirit is not fun to play against. A god Nurse also isn't much fun to play against but they're so rare it doesn't matter.
Iri heads and ebony moris are obviously broken and anyone who says otherwise isn't arguing in good faith.
You know what else, though? Keys are broken and unfun. DS as it currently exists is broken and unfun. There are other perks, especially when stacked by SWFs, that are not fun.
Thing is, everyone who's paying attention already knows all that.
I'm not interested in pointing out, ad nauseum, what everyone already knows.
What I am interested in is pointing out this trend in killer design that I believe is going to slowly throttle the game if it continues in the long term. I think that keys and moris will be relatively simple to rework when the devs get around to it. Plenty of people have already pointed out commonsense changes to Spirit that would make her a little more interactive. Perks like DS should also be relatively simple to make a little less exploitable, even if some survivors will be salty.
But deathslinger, pyramid head, and now the twins have all been released with killer powers that make them unfun and noninteractive to play against for survivors (note I'm not saying they're necessarily "overpowered", just unfun). That's something I think is worth discussing. I play plenty of killer myself, this isn't about one side vs the other for me--it's about the health of the game and ensuring both sides have a good time, which is totally possible, it just doesn't seem to be something that's being prioritized as much as it should be.
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It's funny to see people responding to completely legitimate criticism of a new killer, from a survivor perspective, with statements like "deal with it."
The point isn't that rules are being violated or even that the Twins are necessarily too strong or unfair. The point is that the mechanics of the killer encourage (actually require, honestly, if you want to do well) gameplay that is not fun for 4 of the 5 people in the game. The Twins have an unparalleled ability to facecamp survivors and Victor is best used as a slugger/snowballer, and is very powerful at this assuming he is used correctly and the player doesn't leave him exposed constantly by going for risky lunges.
Anyone who cares about the overall health and longevity of the game should care that 3 out of 4 of the most recently released killers are considered unfun to play against by a large number of survivor players. Considering, again, that this game needs 4 survivor players for every killer, that is not a good precedent.
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@aregularplayer said:
I have an update, I just unlinked my account and lost a lot of progress: rift went back to level 1, tome 1 and 2 (both completed) went back to zero, 4 prestige levels lost, BUT at least my shards, BPs and ACs aren't gone. If everybody was losing BPs, shards and ACs, then probably they managed to fix this, at least...
Thanks for the update; can I ask if you made any purchases through the store after linking (cosmetics, licensed survivors/killers, new chapters, etc) and if you did, do you still have those purchases?
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The support person claimed that I should be able to add friends each time I started the game and that they'd be wiped every time I closed the game. They called this a "workaround." Obviously those of us who have been dealing with this issue for over a month know that there was never any ability to add or be added by anyone at all at any point.
I've made a couple of tickets and asked for updates on my original ticket and it's been days now with no answer... Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think that if this was an easy fix they would've fixed it awhile ago, so it seems likely that they either can't/don't know how to fix it and are choosing to ignore it for now.
What baffles me is I know that support has the ability to restore lost items--I would unlink the accounts if I could just get confirmation from support that they would give me my stuff back (assuming I had documented what I had, of course, which I have done) but I asked that question and haven't received a response back on it, either.
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Also wanted to note that in addition to rarely getting credit for great skill checks, sometimes I would not hit the great skillcheck area and get credit for one randomly... other times I would be right in the great skillcheck zone and the game would interpret that as me having missed it.
I figured at the time it might have something to do with latency/input lag from the stream? Not sure.
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@OP: I experienced this issue a month ago (before my game was broken when I foolishly linked my account to the newly released BHVR account) and I'm also hoping to see it fixed.
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They've known about this issue since the 15th of October, no fixes yet. Some people have been able to unlink from the BHVR account to get the friends system working again, but people are also reporting that they've lost all the progress they made since linking when they unlink, plus all their currencies (BP, auric cells, iri shards).
It sucks. You could definitely try unlinking your steam account from the BHVR account, but I'd definitely document all the stuff you currently have (including any store purchases; cosmetics, killers/survivors, everything) so you have some evidence to give support for them to restore it, if you do get rolled back. There's also a chance you just won't be able to unlink at all... I play on Stadia, and I've tried to unlink from the BHVR account several times but just get an error message and it doesn't work.
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This has been a known issue since mid October. Linking with the BHVR account breaks the friends system, and unlinking deletes any progress you've made since you linked, including purchases. There was an issue with people losing all their currencies after unlinking as well, but maybe that's been resolved?
I've been waiting about a month now for a fix; I've tried several times to unlink accounts but always get an error message when I try.
I hope you're able to get your issue resolved.
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Hi--
Just wanted to drop a quick update regarding this issue...
So, it's now been nearly a month since I made this report. As of today, I still can't add any friends, including my wife, of course, and no one can add me. Because I play primarily with my wife and friends, I haven't played the game during this time, except a few killer matches.
I know that I'll lose all of my BP, auric cells, and iridescent shards if I unlink from the BHVR account, but even despite that I've tried several times, but I get error messages.
I contacted support a couple of days after making this report thread, and all they did was offer a "workaround" which didn't actually work.
I'm pretty stuck here. I know this maybe isn't the case for everybody, but this issue has basically made me unable to play *for a month.*
Hoping to get some help... thanks.
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Same. Just for additional context--I play primarily on Stadia, and in addition, I just signed up for the cross-platform BHVR account. My friends list was completely wiped, and I can't add my wife back as a friend (she plays on Switch). I can send the request, and she sees it, but accepting it doesn't do anything. She can decline it, though. My name also doesn't show up when she searches for it.