loreaccuratenemesis
loreaccuratenemesis
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@danielmaster87 said:
There's nothing you can do for her. Her design is intentionally garbage and made for survivors to loop endlessly.
That's how it feels honestly. She's the designated Survivor bully victim. I don't get what else is special about her. She has worse slowdown, stealth and mobility than any other Killer that has those things.
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As usual, more Perks that are necessary to even have a chance at beating sweaty SWFs (that they'll immediately counter anyway), but will cause you to steamroll and destroy any SoloQ team in an instant. That's just the way literally everything in this game is.
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I notice this happens really often to me as Killer right as I hook someone. I think more than a server issue it's a coding issue causing some kind of error which causes a network desync. It happens too consistently at the same times for it to just be a random network issue. This game's quality control is abysmal.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750103#Comment_3750103
Watch my matches I was telling you about and it will boost your confidence about her. I definitely feel like the power role and I regularly get comp players in my lobbies. It will help you see what you may be doing differently than my matches. Alternatively you can also post a recording of your matches for us to critique. I’m working my last 12 hour shift for the week tomorrow but after that I’m more than happy to hop in the discord and go over everything Onryo for you.
I'm not really noticing any significant differences in anything besides your Perk builds being different from mine. But the Survivors I get seem to be excessively coordinated, like they are full SWFs every time. My position is constantly known, Condemned is constantly cleansed, I am looped perfectly, body blocked, flashlight saved, pallet saved, sabo'd, everything. And I don't get this with any other Killer I play, just her. I really think Sadako 2.0 boosted me because of how overpowered she was. Honestly I prefer that version of her over this one, all they needed to do was tone her down a little bit so she wasn't so overpowered. I even found her funner to play against as Survivor too in that version, because she actually felt like a threat. Her new version feels like such a joke that it doesn't even feel exciting to play against anymore.
It's true some players can still get value out of her and win but it requires waaaaay too much effort to do so compared to almost any other Killer. Too much investment with not enough reward to justify it. I hate when I end up stomping casual newer players with her because it doesn't feel like I earned a win at all, they just died because they don't get how the tapes work, but then my MMR gets boosted thanks to those wins and it's back to sweatville. It's a nightmare.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750093#Comment_3750093
That's the problem, you basically have to purposefully tank your MMR down to a playable level again, then when it starts to feel good, you have to intentionally go for a 2k+2e. The problem with tanking your MMR is that the system has a softcap for the top 25% of the population. That means when normally playing before long/top MMR, you have a 55/100 Killer going against a 51/53/57/59 Survivor group. The top end now shifts to newly 75/100 Killer against 75/75/75/75 or potentially even 75/80/85/90 Survivors.
The way a Killer has to play in order to be ready for that jump, is to purposely only chase the best Survivor each game (before reaching that softcap). The Killer can naturally lose until their real MMR is much higher than their listed MMR (say 85 real, 75 listed). If I tunnel the weak link each match, my MMR will slip past my real skill (say 65 real, 75 listed). Once we reach that 75% MMR threshold, you can't drop below with a single loss anymore like a normal MMR system would. You have to lose multiple times over and over and over again to finally drop below that threshold, but then a single win puts you back in that (lets say) 10 loss scenario before your MMR can drop again.
I notice such a huge difference when I play a Killer like Freddy compared to Sadako. I rarely ever played Freddy, and when I play him now I get extremely casual matches where I could win or lose, but it still feels fair and relaxed either way. I play as Sadako however, whom I unfortunately mained during 2.0 iteration and got insane winstreaks on, and I consistently have to go against Survivors that are cracked out of their minds and completely destroy me. Not just genrushing, they go out of their way to abuse me as much as is in their power to do so, and I'm forced to just DC and stop playing for the day. I seriously can't take it anymore.
I've since gone on massive losing streaks as Sadako, but it hasn't helped. It's been half a year and all it takes is one or two matches where the Survivors give up on the first down and all sacrifice themselves on hook, and I'm back to the bully squads as her. It's made it so I cannot even play Sadako anymore. So then I move on to Freddy for example and now I'm paranoid about winning. I feel like I actively don't want to win, but having to put so much effort into NOT winning feels counterintuitive and silly. Not to mention difficult, since Survivors are really prone to giving up.
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Just had another extremely aggravating match as Sadako, I really can't stand playing as her. I play as every other M1 Killer and I don't seem to get bullied anywhere near as much as I do when I play just her. I cannot get a single down before the Survivors pop three gens and swarm me with perfectly coordinated body blocks and loop me perfectly and win every mindgame. I'm starting to think playing Sadako 2.0 boosted my MMR so high that I'm trapped in high MMR hell as her, because my matches are nothing like this as any other Killer. She is so miserable to play compared to playing as a Killer like Chucky or Hillbilly. It makes me want to quit the game entirely.
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I don't think people being upset about being tunneled is a problem, I also don't think people who tunnel are a problem. The only thing that is a real problem is exactly what you said in your post: players thinking they have the right to judge other players' morals and value as human beings because of how they choose to play a video game. The notion that you will be held in lower social standing, and are subject to ridicule, ostracization and contempt because you are playing the game the way it allows is nonsensical. The people that are on self-righteous ego trips thinking they're working for the greater good because they consider Killers that tunnel as The Most Horrible People Ever Born are the ones that need a reality check.
Be upset at the game and the developers for letting the game be the way it is. People need to stop acting like the players have to police themselves and follow imaginary rulebooks. It's stupid and wrong.
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MMR. The fact that it doesn't work properly. I either get matches against Survivors way above or way below my skill level, rarely anything in between. I want even matches but they are the minority and it really takes away the fun of the game. Matches are either boringly easy or frustratingly hard, it's too inconsistent.
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Trickster
Iron Maiden, I'm All Ears, Brutal Strength, Deadlock
Memento Blades, Tequila Moonrock
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Deja Vu, Prove Thyself, Resilience, We'll Make It.
Gen rushing is the only way to even out the handicaps of solo queue, it's only thanks to me sitting on gens the whole match that my teams even get half the escapes we do. And then We'll Make It because everyone in solo queue insists on being healed under hook.
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@mizark3 said:
The problem with the game is that MMR causes Killer to be more fun when you ONLY sweat, or NEVER sweat. That means either turbo tunnel and proxy camp and run meta on the current top 5 Killers, or 8 hook the Survs then take a 5-min walk IRL. Neither direction helps actual enjoyment of the game, which is what is contributing to most people's dissatisfaction/burnout with the game.
Yeah, it's this dilemma that drives me insane. I keep going against players that are waaaaay better than me, probably because I get so many matches where Survivors give up that now the game thinks I'm some kind of Killer god when I'm not. It's so frustrating. If MMR were real, then I'd think maybe I should play with handicaps so that way my MMR stays low so I can keep my sanity and play casual. But if I'm going to get paired against these hardcore bully squads no matter what I do, then it only makes sense to run full meta sweat myself every single match and act like every match is a tournament with my life on the line. It feels like there's literally no room for anything in between and tbh I really don't know which path to take.
I feel like I've been trying to play chill/casual but it doesn't matter. I only get two types of matches: Survivors that throw and give up at 5 gens on the first down or the tryhard god loopers that finish all 5 gens before I can get a single down. Nothing else.
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I just had another match against sweatlord Survivors that were way above my skill level and I seriously can't stand it. I prefer matches where I can play casual and chill but I get so many matches against Survivors that are literal babies or that give up instantly that it boosts my MMR so high I'm forced to deal with these 10000 hour psychos that drive me crazy and are out to torture me. I seriously can't stand playing this game and honestly I don't know why I bother anymore.
I can't solve this problem. Do I either play with as many handicaps as I can so my MMR can stay low so I can get casual matches? Or do I play absolute sweat tryhard mode myself every single match if I'm going to be forced to go against constant sweaty tryhards anyway? Which one???
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Seeing teammates' auras on a gen might be a little too much information advantage if it's map-wide, however within 32 meters and only while in chase I think would be fine and would be nice as I'm also sick of teammates bringing the Killer to me while I'm on a gen and I hate accidentally doing that myself. The deja vu basekit I think is way too much information for free though. Instead I think the teammate aura reading part of Kindred should be basekit.
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@jezebelthenun said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749897#Comment_3749897
I'm actually talking about tunneling off hook, though. I don't necessarily consider finding the same survivor a minute or two after unhooking as tunneling. I've just noticed a sharp event increase in proxy camping and tunneling directly off hook.
That said, if they're unhooking and healing in your terror radius, it's not good play, but I'd attempt to chase the unhooker at detriment to my own win out of courtesy. I don't mind that not everyone feels that way though.
The other issue is soloq being injured and not getting body blocked or others taking chase. People are really selfish a lot of the time. I spent an entire match injured and nobody would heal me. They all ran to corners and self healed, and refused to let me heal them too.
Ugh, people.
I often do the same and will always target the unhooker as it's a much better way of spreading pressure. But I often find that the same things that bother me about my teammates when I play SoloQ Survivor are the same things that result in me tunneling when I play Killer: the other teammates are not playing well and are leaving the tunneled Survivor vulnerable. Sometimes SoloQ teammates are toxic, sometimes they're just bad, but I think mostly it's a lack of communication. The teammate aura reading part of Kindred needs to be base-kit without a doubt.
I also want to reiterate that I fully get that intentional tunneling off hook is indeed miserable feeling. When I see it happening to a teammate I've already sort of resigned myself to the match being lost unless the rest of my team are all somehow super Survivor gods, which they most likely aren't (neither am I). I think that feeling of resignation leaves a lot of Survivor players in this sort of apathetic state where none of them are really putting much effort into trying, because why bother? I know that's how I feel a lot of the time when playing Survivor. But when all 4 teammates are in sync and coordinating, it feels great. I just think the game does not provide enough tools to help teammates coordinate, which it really needs to. Then Killers' MMR would be balanced out and they'd have a reason to stop complaining as much too because they'd actually be with Survivors at their skill level.
The main point in my initial response was this sense that a lot of Survivor players make out Killers to be horrible, ill-intentioned toxic people that tunnel just to make Survivor players feel bad, when it's really just the way the game is designed. I won't deny there are toxic players, but not all Killer players should have to feel like they're morally in the wrong and are terrible people simply because they won in a video game. The game itself is the problem, not the players. Toxic exceptions aside.
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@ChaosWam said:
Sadako main here.
Some main points I'd like to say is Sadako currently is quite weak, with how they changed tapes and TVs and how easy it is to keep her TV's deactivated if the players respect her power. Also keeping in mind she has a lullaby when demanifested that is visible with the heartbeat sensor so stealth plays are a LOT trickier to pull off. That said, she's not without her strong points. What I enjoy doing is whenever there is a gap between me and the survivor, go into demanifest. When at loops, utilize the post-manifest mindgames to try and throw them off. Good survivors can usually play around it, but there are times you can manage a hit by confusing them. Also, I suggest timing your demanifest right before getting hit by a pallet. If they throw it and you commit correctly, you don't get stunned and can break the pallet. If they greed, you can react and stop demanifesting and get a hit, so long as you win the pallet mindgame.Also remember you're just an M1 killer at heart, and general loop knowledge is going to help you a TON since you're forced to abide by every tile. Your mindgames and unpredictable teleporting is your strong point, as long as you don't confuse yourself and lose survivor's movements. Also remember, Sadako is short, so you have the advantage at taller walls.
And remember to utilize your TVs for more than movements. Stacking condemned on survivors is your best kit slowdown, and if they have a tape they can't use their items. Even if it's to teleport to cut off a survivor in chase, any other TV's active will apply condemned stacks. Even sweeter when you manage to hook someone with 3 stacks perk hook so they can never cleanse those again.
My personal build I find a lot of success with is the following perks+addons:
- Deadman's Switch for post hook teleport, so if they respect the TV or a TV is on near them they want to turn off, they may let go and suffer the near-full duration of the perk blocking a gen.
- Surge (Or Jolt if you prefer to call it that) because you're an M1 killer and it's still decent on M1's, I don't often get blocked gens from using it, and when I do it's usually over for them anyway.
- Bamboozle to cut down on loops with windows, which is usually an M1 killer's weak spot. Plus, if you're good at faking out your looping you can catch them off guard at windows as you vault.
- Anything for a 4th. I always swap my 4th perk around depending on how I feel. Currently my favorite is Dark Devotion for doing hit-and-run off the obsession, or Dissolution for some pallet pressure. Other perks I've had success with is Gearhead for aura reads and easier times targeting for giving out stacks, Deadlock or Grim Embrace to compliment more gen blocking, Save The Best For Last to snowball, and Hex: Face The Darkness for the same reason as Gearhead plus more information on movements. There's always Lethal Persuer as well for early pressure, and for me personally, my aura-related addons. Really, your 4th perk should compliment at least one of the other 3 perks or your personal playstyle.
Addons I run exclusively these days are:
- Remote Control (Iridescent) Aura reading after a teleport is always good, especially because it will show anyone near an active TV, so you can plan your teleport patters better to get as many stacks possible and possibly catch your next target off guard.
- Distorted Photo. I see a lot of Sadakos sleep on this addon, and I swear by it's utility if you're not running aura perks. When a survivor is looking at you when you manifest, they scream and reveal their aura for 4 seconds. This addon in loops is VERY underrated, because for the most part survivors are keeping their eyes on you and you can get 4 seconds of information on their looping. I tend to swap between manifest states mid chase, so manifesting before they turn a corner or vaulting a window means you can plan ahead. I also find it's uses when a survivor is hiding and watching you as you manifest sometimes, as well as the fact the scream interrupts actions, meaning if you time yourself correctly you can deny unhooks and force a hook trade. Another fun fact, while Calm Spirit stops the scream, it does not stop the aura reading so Calm Spirit users may not even know you have it unless they witness other survivors scream and make the connection.
- Other addons to consider are Bloody Fingernails for post-TV movement, Ring Drawing for more condemned when hooking survivors with tapes, Old Newspaper and Mother's Mirror are fine for loop mindgames, and Well Water if you want 2 seconds of more post-manifest undetectable. I don't typically run the other addons anymore so I can't say I'm fully knowledgeable of their strengths compared to what I'm used to now.
Hopefully more Sadako mains drop their knowledge of the killer as well, but this is my personal thoughts and playstyle around her. I've gotten a ton of wins, got her to P100 and still enjoy playing her over most of the roster. If I forgot to mention anything else, I will edit this again.
Thanks, this was very insightful. Could you elaborate on the differences between Reiko's Watch, Old Newspaper and Mother's Mirror? I'm not sure which of them are useful or are good in combination with each other in regards to mindgames. Demanifest mindgames are something I've never really understood or gotten the hang of as it seems so hard to time correctly to get value out of it and I often just end up losing distance due to the slowdown. Also is the Videotape Copy add-on that increases Condemned range by 2 meters any good?
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@mizark3 said:
The problem with the game is that MMR causes Killer to be more fun when you ONLY sweat, or NEVER sweat. That means either turbo tunnel and proxy camp and run meta on the current top 5 Killers, or 8 hook the Survs then take a 5-min walk IRL. Neither direction helps actual enjoyment of the game, which is what is contributing to most people's dissatisfaction/burnout with the game.
@100PercentBPMain said:
Matchmaking barely works anyway so trying to play around mmr is just pointless just play whatever you find fun your matches will be mismatched regardless
What playstyles/builds do you both use and enjoy playing with? I'd like to hear about some other players' experiences and how they still manage to have fun despite dealing with this weird MMR system.
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Tunneling isn't necessarily an intentional act of toxicity or sweatiness. I play Killer in an auto-pilot efficiency mindset that will sometimes result in me tunneling someone if there's no better options. For example, if I hook someone, then I go to find someone else, but the Survivor gets unhooked while I'm still nearby, then yes, I am going back to hook. It's the Survivors' mistake to unhook when I'm still close and not occupied, of course you're going to get punished for it.
Then, if I arrive back at the hook, and they're healing, yes, I'm going to hit you. If the unhooker doesn't get my attention or runs away and the just hooked Survivor is closer, yes I'm going after them. Especially if they use their BT to bodyblock. These are all Survivor misplays that I am capitalizing on, it's not me intentionally choosing to tunnel for an easy win or to be toxic. If you're going to be a bad Survivor player, you are going to be punished for it. Stop being bad and expecting the Killer to not punish you for it.
I say all this as an avid Survivor player who knows when to unhook, when to get the Killer's attention off teammates, when to trade, etc. I won't deny there are examples of obvious hard tunneling, but they aren't as frequent as some players make it out to be. A lot of it boils down to Survivors just playing bad. The Killer gets a nice, loud, booming noise notification when a Survivor is unhooked. Why would I waste my time looking around for others when I'm being notified of the location of two Survivors? Don't unhook until the Killer is occupied somewhere else.
And if they proxy camp? Get on gens and trade at the last second. You also need to accept that not every match is going to be a 4 man out, just like Killers need to accept not every match is going to be a 4k. Sometimes one Survivor will have to be a sacrifice so the other 3 can do gens and escape. That's just how it goes.
Tunneling isn't a sin. Yes, people can use tactics to be toxic, but more often than not, it's a skill issue. Not only that, but this is just how the game is designed. Killers are supposed to kill. Being nice and taking turns hooking Survivors offers no gameplay advantage to the Killer. Having 8 hooks is no different from having 0 hooks, all 4 Survivors are still active and able to do gens, heal, chase, etc. Removing a Survivor is the only thing that drastically changes the dynamics of the match.
I find more often than not on inexperienced Killers that try to tunnel that it's detrimental to them and they often only end up with 1 kill because they didn't properly spread pressure. I spread pressure as much as I can while always going after whatever Survivor I can find fastest that's within my line of sight, and drop chase if they bring me close to a generator I know is being worked on. Whether this results in tunneling or not is irrelevant to me; I don't intentionally tunnel, but I also don't intentionally avoid tunneling either. I kill anyone I see, simple as that. Not to be toxic, but because I want to actually do chases and play the game, not waste time leaving Survivors alone so I can walk around doing nothing. That's boring.
Edit: That being said, I want to say that I think tunneling does end up boosting Killer players' MMR too high because often casual teams that are tunneled early on have no chance of making a comeback, so Killers get easy wins (whether intentionally or not) and get paired with higher skilled SWFs that are too much for them and they come onto the forums to complain that Survivors are OP when they're actually just boosted. I think if this problem were to be rectified, it would have to be on the devs to implement a forced anti-tunneling playstyle that prevents Killers from being able to tunnel simply as part of the game's design. It shouldn't be a choice. Players should not have to police themselves. It should just be a part of the game passively. I don't play this game to stop and waste time trying to make sure I'm not tunneling. If the devs implemented a way to force me not to tunnel in a way where I don't have to think about it, then I'd be fine with that.
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@danielmaster87 said:
I just run meta, or something I've found that's better, all the time. No point in losing a match for no reason because you chose a build expecting to beat a mid team. I won't run NOED, I'll run Rancor. I won't run gen defence (lol), I'll run Spiri Fury/Enduring. Only big decision of mine that'll change match to match is if in the end, if I'm on the back foot, I'll settle for the 2k or I'll try go for a slug and get the win. Or, since I usually tunnel, I'll just forget to do so and probably regret it. But I don't like how MMR works either. I'm always getting sweaty survivors as killer, but never as teammates. That's why I always err towards killer being weaker than popular opinion suggests. Are we losing because the killer's OP, or because our team sucked?
I feel like Killer is definitely weaker than Survivor if all 4 Survivors are good. But at low and mid MMR, aka the majority of the player base, all 4 Survivors are not all sweatlords. So more often than not I have Perks that give me huge advantages that turn matches that would've otherwise been close, even, engaging matches into boring steamrolls which are just as boring to me as getting steamrolled. It feels like running meta is just overkill on casuals and doesn't help at all against actual sweaty teams. I'm not saying your playstyle or preference is wrong by the way, this is just my experience. I'm more of a casual player, I don't mind losing, but I at least want the match to feel fun, like I tried and actually got to play the game, not just have it be over in 2 minutes because the entire team did nothing or because they genrushed and left instantly. It's boring either way.
So my problem is trying to find a build that isn't too weak but isn't too OP either. That's mainly what I'm trying to figure out.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I had a round as p100 rebecca and got a nemisis who likes to just tunnel and face camp resident evil survivors. Without any antitunnel perks i managed to loop him for 2 generators, get hooked, he sat there in my face nodding letting the bar fill, i waited and unhooked myself right before going to 2nd stage, looped for another 2 generators after being hit right off the hook, got hooked again and waited for the bar to fill, watched the teammates get the last generator to 98 and unhooked myself again, looped him again till all the survivors were at the gates and died. If a killer decides to tunnel that hard, you are the only kill hes going to get if you play your cards right. Either way sucks to be the person on the recieving end but i made it work
haha, yep, that was me. i remember that match on coldwind farm cause that was the first time i'd tried that. i don't normally hard tunnel or face camp but thought it would be funny to try it once as nemmy against a RE survivor. i found it extremely boring though so i stopped after that match. sorry you were on the receiving end of that, lol. i felt kinda bad afterward. and i know it was you because i remember your name and the p100 rebecca that was good at looping.