themirrortwin
themirrortwin
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I made another thread in feedback and suggestions, but I'll also put it here.
Maybe the killer could get a gen blocking perk that triggers when a gen is completed. Something like...
"Each time a gen is completed, block all other gens for 30 seconds. This perk will force survivors working on a gen off of a gen."
"Each time a gen is completed, block the 3 gens farthest away from it for 30 seconds. This perk will force survivors working on a gen off of a gen."
I don't think this would be overpowered because it can only trigger 5 times. Additionally, 30 seconds isn't very long and gen progress isn't lost. BUT, it would stop the experience of having gens popping in quick succession and allow the killer a littler breathing room to travel around the map.
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@Godot said:
Gen-rushing has been a problem to an extent, yet each time someone actually gen-rushes the Killer, they bite it in the end thanks to NOED because they didn't do the bones. This happens 90% of the times, to me at least.
This perk isn't a good idea, not because it would suck or anything, but because it's pointless. I've played countless matches where the Killer starts chasing a Survivor, and that Survivor happens to be much more skilled than the Killer, which is how they could ran the killer for 4+ generators.
If the Killer sees too much generators popping while still in a chase, they should immediately change course instead of committing and leave the Survivor they're having trouble with. It happened to me countless times as a Killer, and that is how people escaped.
So, yes, as much as I hate to say it, you have to "get good" or improvise, adapt and overcome. Change the build you're using, play as a different Killer, etc.
No. I am a rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor with 1000+ hours. I can say that advice along the lines of "get good" and "adapt" isn't useful. As I said in the title, this is a perk that would make me feel good. As the developers have said, not all perks have to be "meta" or super strong.
I do not like when I find the first survivor, down them relatively quickly, and then 2 gens pop as I hook her in the first 2 minutes or so. Sure, I could always run corrupt intervention to avoid this, but honestly I get bored running the same meta perks over and over.
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Also, you can disable cross play (at least on PC). It is a setting in the main menu (not the survivor menu, the main menu). I hope it is available on the switch.
If you believe your enjoyment of the game has decreased because of cross play, consider turning it off for a while. You may have slightly longer cue times but if it improves your experience, then I think it is worth it.
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Ranks are meaningless now. That rank 8 was bringing DS with prove thyself, they probably weren't a rank 8, just a rank 1 who has been away for a bit but still had a high MMR.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1604765#Comment_1604765
The "higher levels of play" are not 4-man tournament squads on Haddonfield with 4 DS 4 Unbreakable 4 Soulguard. That is an extreme rarity and not a single big streamer shows a different story.
You act like this is the first time Otz has posted a game like this:
True also occasionally shares videos such as this one:
There are many more if you search.
Both of these are examples of "higher levels of play" and are not necessarily 4-man tournament squads.
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Sprint Burst? Become an expert in dead hard and you'll feel much better about not having Iron Will or Unbreakable.
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Otz frequently posts games that highlight this high level phenomenon, where he (a thousand hour streamer) struggles because all the survivors are high skilled and have the meta perks. I really appreciate that he posts this content because the average viewer can go see for themselves what the higher levels of play are like!
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Berserk - You start the game with one token. You may press E to dash forward (the length of dead hard) and consume a token. For the duration of the dash, you cannot attack. If you do not have a token, then 8/7/6 hits with your basic attack will earn you 1 token.
This perk is Dead Hard for killers. It can throw off seasoned survivors who know the timings and loops really well. Additionally, at max level it can only be used every 6 hits. This infrequent enough not to be too strong but also keeps the survivors guessing if you have the perk (unless they have been monitoring it on coms).
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The game is determined by the skill of the survivors. Good survivors will be able to consistently beat the killer, and killer's at high rank experience this often. It's also why at high ranks virtually all killers run corrupt intervention, pop goes the weasel, and BBQ and Chili, because you need these perks to have a chance to control the gens when the survivors are at a high skill level.
At low survivor skill level, the games are killer sided. This is because the survivors make lots of mistakes that the killer capitalizes on and creates too much pressure for the survivors as a team to handle. This is what makes games feel "killer sided," but fundamentally it is a misunderstanding that it isn't "killer sided" it is that the survivors are just bad.
The two worlds at the ends of the survivor skill level are like night and day.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
" (who is almost always very low ping)."
No, not at all. Killers playing with high Ping (or even VPNs) are the reason, why Hit Validation will be implemented (currently disabled because of some problems with Killers like Huntress). If the Killer has a high Ping, it benefits them. If the Survivor has a high Ping, they usually have a disadvantage.
And personally, you should not play with players from far away. If you get red Ping, it means it is over 250 (I think), which is huge. You should not expect that the game is running smoothly at this point.
They decided to give one side the priority, this is the Killers side. But Hit Validation should filter out the most stupid Hits because of Killers with high Ping, so it is overall a good thing IMO. In the end, it is up to you if you decide if either you or your friend have a high Ping, but the Survivors who are put against a high Ping-Killer cannot decide.
That is a fair point. However, how frequent are high ping killer games? I've maybe had in all of my killer games. But maybe they are more common in other parts of the community.
Honestly, I don't understand why we have to deal with yellow and red ping. There are so many games (as the other commentor mentioned) where ping is a non-issue. Many first person shooters do not have an issue with this at all. I feel like high ping is a DBD problem I had hoped would have been solved with dedicated servers but that we still have a long way to go.
Additionally, I will play with my friend if I want to (screw your "should"). Maybe instead blizzard "should" improve their server system so that their player base gets better service. My friend and I do not experience this problem in any of the other games we play together, including Overwatch, Vallorant, League, and others to name a few. Behavior needs to improve this one way or the other.
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I have had the sound issue with the spirit as well on PC. Sometimes it has sound, sometimes she just appears.
This game is programmed so poorly.
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@cyniChris said:
I've had that happen a lot, even on the new map.
I had one instance where I was repairing a generator and suddenly got affected by torment after about 20 seconds. I didn't move, there was nothing on the ground, but I got tormented.
Torment is the one part of Pyramid Head's power that needs to be functioning properly, otherwise it's completely unfair.
This is so true. I know people are arguing about whether he is too strong, but his power first and foremost needs to work properly.
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The devs don't care about balancing red ranks. This has been true for years. I honestly think though that this is because there are many different types of games of all skills. As mentioned, Killers are strong in the lower ranks and survivors in the red ranks.
I've always advocated for a tiered gen speed system. Gens are faster at lower ranks and slower at higher ranks.
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1120949#Comment_1120949
I think you miss the point.
The point is that despite the huge difference of skill between the killer and the surviviors (proven by the 4k with speed limiter bubba), surviviors still had a VERY high chance of winning.
These surviviors should get completely destroyed, they made rookie mistakes (letting themselves get hit TWICE with the same chainsaw charge), but they still got many points and probably pipped (or at least didnt depip).
Its the same when camper with NOED doesnt depip because 5 gens + cleansing NOED takes more time than camping one person. Someone camping since the beginning of the game and not applying pressure shoud get DESTROYED even by noobs, without any chance of gettimg brutal killer. But unless its SWF or good surviviors, killer will get 2 kills easily.
This guy gets it. A huge difference in skill, demonstrated in the beginning of the game, and yet they still finish all the gens.
I'm also disturbed by the Devs response on this forum, saying "but he got the 4k," because it shows the point wasn't understood:
***The playing experience of killer is important too and these perks feel very frustrating as Otz demonstrated.***
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I wish the horse from the Clown map would feature again. I love that three eyed, dead horse!
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109843#Comment_1109843
9 to 12 most of the time
That's why it's so frustrating. I worked hard to get just to this rank. I expected survivors would start playing more intelligently as my rank got better. That hasn't happened.
Red Ranks are where the strong survivors are, and I say that as a red rank survivor and red rank killer.
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Survive with friends is a team game, and a pretty fun one at that.
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@OrangeJack said:
######### is this post?
A ######### post and a humble brag all in one. So pointless.
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@MTK said:
it shouldnt.
It's supposed to be an anti tunneling perk
It's not supposed to be a 60 second "im invincible" perk that survivors can exploit in locker or vault animation(had some survivors slow vault over pallets/windows right in front of killers just to trigger a grab instead of a normal hit)
They technically aren't invincible. You can slug them and wait it out. I do feel DS is too strong though. If one person has DS then it is assumed the whole team has DS.
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Honestly, gen speed is a rank problem. At lower ranks, I think it is fine. At red ranks, it is too fast because survivors have learned the game and are very efficient.
A fix would have to be in the form of tiered gen speeds. And yes, that is confusing as it is because you might get mixed ranks. That is a problem for the Devs. At higher ranks, I believe Gen speed should be a tiny, tiny bit nerfed.
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Whoah, this IS really scary. Behavior doesn't learn. Yikes!
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I love that this discussion is dripping with Sarcasm. Poor killers. They are tortured souls both in AND outside the game! HAHAHAHAHAHAH
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I just want David to be happy (as happy as you can be in that realm), whether it means he gets with Jane (those hips don't lie) or Dwight, it doesn't matter!
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I love this thread!
For Killer: I'd release the Hag. She was an innocent girl who was kidnapped after she slipped and went unconscious. The only other killer who was "innocent" was the spirit, who came home to he crazy father. However, her family was a bit crazy, so I rate the hag as more deserving than she.
For survivor, Poor Claudette, cause I love her. haha
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I know! Red ranks favor survivors so hard that the potatoes can last there! lol
Sigh, if only Red ranks would be more balanced, this wouldn't be an issue.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062302#Comment_1062302
No one is, but it's the same kind of broken logic.
It is random, but making it change placements once it spawned is stupid. Why not make the hatch change spots every 30 seconds while you're at it, to make it even more random, that way the last survivor doesn't even have to roam the map to find it he can just sit in a locker and wait for it to appear next to him!
Once again, you're making a straw man. Maybe you should Wikipedia what that is.
And no, it isn't broken logic. Hatch DCing almost never happens other than with SWF, who are the only ones who abuse it really. In the one random time that a solo-er gets a DCer right before the end of the game, then they have the find the hatch all the same just as any old game. It's not even guaranteed they would have found it by then and it is possible it could spawn closer. The argument makes a lot of sense.
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@MrsGhostface said:
I’m not gonna sit there for 3-4 minutes just for you to get your 4k. I used to slug every game for the 4k, became repetitive and took up so much time. I laugh when I’m spectating and my teammate gets hatch even after the killer walks around for 4 minutes looking for them. Just hook the last person and hope you’re the one who finds hatch, or if it’s spawned in already keep an eye out for it ahead of time.
It isn't about hooking someone and hoping to get hatch. It is when two survivors and the killer all know where the hatch is (far across the map) and you slug a person, begin chasing the other one, who runs to the hatch while their friend DCs. It is an obvious abuse of the DC system. That is what I'm saying, and it should be fixed. I don't mind the regular hatch mechanic.
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@Marcavecunc said:
Why not make the basement change place after every basement unhook, and the gates move after every generator completed?
Hatch moving around would make literally no sense. Why have it spawn in the first place of you're just going to de-spawn it and have it reappear elsewhere?
And as has been mentioned before, doing so has chances of ######### both the killer and survivors over.
No one is suggesting any of those things. Don't make a strawman argument, it just makes you look stupid.
The reason it would switch position is to avoid abuse, and just as much as it could hurt it could help as the hatch could spawn near you.
The hatch is DESIGNED to be random anyway, from the start. It really doesn't change the mechanic much at all.
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I would definitely remove Decisive strike as it is so powerful for survivor (giving them yet another chance). For killer, I would remove sloppy butcher - there are add ons that can give mangled, therefore restrict it to those. It is very powerful on some killers.
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@Peanits said:
I do get the premise of the idea, but I do think this would be really awkward. Imagine you're not even coordinating with the other guy and you happened to see where the hatch is. They get caught and they're dead on hook, so you start heading over to the hatch. Just as you get there, they rage quit and the hatch vanishes.
I feel there are more elegant ways to handle it, such as blocking the hatch for X seconds if someone disconnects or leaving their husk in the game so they go through the normal sacrifice animation (or get sacrificed EGC style if the killer drops them).
On the other hand, a DC could cause the hatch to spawn near the survivor. The randomness (the hatch mechanic) is unpredictable. The hatch is pretty arbitrary as it is, I'm not this is really a serious concern. However, your other suggestions would be better than the current status quo as well. Honestly, having husks would be really nice or ECG.
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@Peanits could this achievement be reworked?
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@StardustSpeedway said:
I have my own terms of how I play killer and follow them very closely. For me, it doesn't matter if I win or lose, or if I get a toxic SWF. It's about staying true to my terms on how I rate a match. I don't expect to win every game and I'm fine with everyone escaping as long as I pressured them. I play 'low' tier killers like Trapper and Clown and I'm doing fine in red ranks. I am currently rank 1 for killer and sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I'm OK with it. It's just like when I play survivor (solo). It's the luck of the draw and you won't know what you get. Just gotta deal with the hand you're dealt!
Or the Developers can start valuing killer's experiences and make it so the gens don't fly after one good survivor loops you well once. I feel like they consistently ignore and downplay the killer experience. They need to remember that EVERY game has at least 1 player killer, and if they drive killer players away, then the game will die.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1050951#Comment_1050951
"hatch goes to whoever finds it first"
DING-DING-DING
We have a winner!
Seriously what's with those ideas to give the hatch or free escape to survivors whose teammates disconnected? ######### the killer over in favor of survivors? How fair is that.
Because the killer may have found the hatch already, EONS ago. But the survivor gets it due to DC hatch tech without any skill because of their teammate's DCs. How is that so confusing? Do you EVEN play killer?
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@Plaquer said:
Dude, I solo queue and if you're forcing a 4 minute bleedout so you can sweat for the 4k, I'm gonna DC to help my teammate. Plus if you already know where hatch is, just kill the survivor before they DC or sit near hatch to close it immediately if you believe they will DC to open hatch
I.e. you are going to abuse game mechanics to help your teammate. If you don't want to slug then DC and let your teammate FIND the hatch.
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Oooh, I got a suggestion. 10 seconds of survivors being revealed with the added that this effect stops once a survivor is in the terror radius (on the off chance you spawn close) and then 1 minute (like haunted grounds) of instant downs. It serve its purpose, getting a quick down and slowing the game down.
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Better Together is actually a shocking good solo perk!
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@WhatIsThatMelody said:
If survivors could also see you for that time period, it would be more balanced - but if you've gone against good survivors that run Object of Obsession, you probably know that's not a great idea and you would be worse off lol.
You could just pull off too much cheesy/cheap things if you could just see all auras for a certain period.
- Stealth killers could almost always get a free gen grab
- Myers could just see who's grouped up and just stalk them,
- Ghost Face could 99% stalk multiple people
- Huntress could just charge up an iri head shot and throw it right as someone was going to walk around a corner,
- etc etc etc..
But I don't think the devs would make something that just completely removes the stealth option from the game. Survivors should always have the choice of trying to hide from the killer. And I don't think any survivors would be ok with a Billy knowing exactly where you are at the beginning of a match and chainsawing directly to you.
I'm not sure how you could change your perk idea to make it fair without making it garbage. If it stopped showing survivors auras inside a certain range, then it would be a bad perk.
I think that arcnkd made an excellent point about the Shrouds. It can be argued that the Shrouds simply put you far away from the killer, with another survivor, or as a group of 4. Despite being called shroud, it doesn't necessarily conflict with the aura reading idea.
Also, stealth will always be an option. In the same way that bbq and chilli doesn't take that stealth away, I don't think this would either.
Perhaps it would last 10 seconds in the beginning of the game. But then again, that'd be too weak. It would have to have some sort of secondary effect as well.
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I love this thread! haha
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The Devs are aware of this and working to fix it. Watch the recorded live stream if you need to hear it from them.
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Honestly, after Killer perspectives were ignored and the survivor side was buffed with no change to gen speed or giving killers anything, I can see why.
I have started playing a lot of survivor after 3.5 and I go against the same killers with the same load outs. It makes me switch back over to killer which just feels very "frustrating" (in the words of the Devs). Honestly, I wonder where the game is going.
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@arcnkd said:
While I can see where you are coming from on this, I don't think that would be very healthy for the game even if it did take a perk. Before I explain why though, it isn't very 'nice' of you to tell Marcavecunc not to post here if he doesn't agree with you -- the forums aren't for a only-people-who-agree-with-me.
As for why I don't think it would be healthy; the only thing it aids is killers -- it only helps killers in finding survivors before they can rush a gen or group up on a couple. Not only that, it completely negates the use of any shroud items and the fact that they are secret.
I play mainly killer, but I don't think killers need a way to immediately be able to find survivors as soon as the match starts, for an entire minute (which is only 20 seconds less than a single surv on a gen) and for potentially a while if they don't do any aggressive actions. Sure it would cost an entire perk slot, but you aren't really gaining that much 'benefit' outside being able to counter early rushing.
Marcavecunc was blatantly rude. Don't portray it as if he simply "disagreed." I came here fore discussion and he or she simply discounted the idea if you read closely. Before you do policing, please read closely.
Trust me, I want these forums to be a good place for discussion.
Now, I think you made an excellent point about the Shrouds. This perk would negate an offering and that is a big problem. I think for that reason alone the perk in its current state would not be acceptable.
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If the traitor was a real role, I think that would be hilarious!
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@Marcavecunc said:
Whispers and discordance are the most popular ones I can think of, and that I've personally used.
No real need to argue honestly, seeing where everyone is right at the beginning of the game defeats the whole purpose of hunting them down and would definitely make the games unbalanced.
There are 4 players and you can't chase them all. Seeing where everyone is would cost a whole perk.
"No real need to argue honestly, seeing where everyone is right at the beginning of the game defeats the whole purpose of hunting them down" is blatantly rude, and if you feel that way then I ask you not to comment on this thread. I do not think it defeats the purpose and I think there are good claims to support that it is a good idea.
Now to discuss your actual points, which have flaws:
Discordance lasts all game. It isn't comparable. It would not be the same as a perk that at most lasts one minute.
Whispers does not help you find survivors in the same way. On a large map you could walk counterclockwise when they start on the clockwise gen and miss a bunch with no help from whispers.
The purpose of hunting them down still applies after the first chase is initiated and aggressive action is taken. Survivors have to be tracked down throughout the game.
Pros of this suggested perk: It makes the initial search very short. Like a bb&chili for the beginning of the game. This saves time but costs a whole perk.
Cons: Survivors would be unable to use steal to avoid this, although it only lasts a minute (or possibly less).
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@Marcavecunc said:
There's already a few perks to help you find survivors in the early game. That one would be a bit too strong.
Maybe make it an obsession perk. You see your obsession's aura for 5/10/15 seconds. And that's it.
Which perks? And I disagree. You'd lose it as soon as you started going after someone and that's a wasted perk. It is shorter than corrupt intervention (without the gen speed slow down), and It doesn't last all game like discordance or BB&Chili.
You need to argue more clearly.
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Keys are number 1 in my opinion. I do agree that there are many other things to balance.
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Don't worry, BHVR has subtly and quietly announced that ranks will no longer be shown in the end screen. Thus, in the future, you'll never know! Welcome to the future
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Yep! Honestly, as a veteran player myself I think it might be time to leave and to advocate for leaving. Foolish Devs. New players aren't long term money makers. The majority will leave the game anyway. It is your community that will buy your new skins and new killers. Tsk tsk tsk.
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@_VTK_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006588#Comment_1006588
Raw data can be easily falsified by an error in the code. Peer reviewes make mistakes. As I said, you can question ANYTHING if you don't want to agree with stats. Totems, skill checks stats would be interesting to know, but they don't affect the stats that DEVs released.
I worked as a DEV and balanced a game, fans of the game were not agree to what the DEV team was doing with the balance, although balance changes were needed. And guess what, showing stats, showing raw data didn't change anything about their opinion. People will always find excuses not to believe in something they don't want to believe, they will think of 1000 silly excuses: "no raw data", stats are "lacking", "badly acquired" etc. I'm not surprised at all.
Stats are fine.
"Raw data can be easily falsified by an error in the code." It's called transparency. If the data is available then analysis can easily be checked and verified.
There are people will always have opinions and do not update their beliefs with evidence, thats just a distraction from the main, a whataboutish (ignoratio elechi)*. However, there is a large portion of this community that want the game to succeed, be fair, be fun, and are theorists/analyst. This is especially true for this sub community.
Hiding the raw data is just a power play by the DEVs. Honestly, if I was a better programmer, I would try to create a video algorithm that could automatically analyze twitch and youtube videos (watching for the points indicators at the top of the screen) to generate some data for the community.
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@_VTK_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006530#Comment_1006530
You don't get raw data in scientific articles with stats, yet science somehow manages to create new technologies that work. You can question them too, if you want. Asking DEVs for raw data for the stats... that's interesting. And then you will question the raw data and ask for game replays. At the end it boils down to whether you decide to believe something or not. Usually people don't believe because stats don't fit their own experience, because people forget that stats show AVERAGE numbers.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006522#Comment_1006522
What you said is only theoretically relevant for Red Ranks killrate. But we all know ranks mean nothing in this game, they get reset and even a potato can get to rank 1, provided he plays enough during a month. So, people with different skills are mixed up in red ranks games anyway.
All other stats are unaffected by what you wrote, I hope I don't have to explain why? Those are averages across ALL ranks.
1) Scientific articles are held to a much higher standard. Have you heard of peer review. It is a false equivalent* comparing scientific articles to the DEVs report.
2) The raw data would be excellent and game replays are not needed. Assuming we'd ask for that is a hasty generalization* and wrong. I want to know how the stats break down by rank and number of hours in the game. I want to know how often skill checks are missed, how long totems stay up on average, and how often perks are used - yet none of those are available.
For a while, I played the MOBA, Heroes of the Storm by Blizzard (before it went to heck). They offered post game text files that contained relevant information about the game and users created a site called HotsLogs that allowed users to upload their game data text files and create a massive database. It was incredible interesting and helpful.
The DEVs don't want to do that because it would prove that they are not interested in balancing the game but making the most money, but that's fine. I mean DBD can only survive if it makes money.
3) Stats do show crude averages, but raw data doesn't lie. Raw data could answer so many more questions via stratification.
This forum is full of opinions with limited anecdotal evidence. I wish the community had access to the unbiased, raw data so that we could argue compellingly rather than talk in circles on here.
*Logical Fallacies
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@_VTK_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1006374#Comment_1006374
Opinion of a biased main vs stats collected by an unbiased algorithm, I wonder what has more value /s
Collecting and correctly interpreting the stats is the only way to balance the game because of all the cognitive humans biases: confirmation bias, frequency illusion, Dunning-Krueger effect, just to name a few. So, stats are fine, regardless of whether they fit your subjective reality or not, you'll just have to accept it.
Concerting gen times. Gen times are fine and it's mainly not the maps. It's the gap in looping skills (=chase times) that makes it hard to balance the game. 1 good looper can change the outcome of a game. Throw in 2 or 3 and Killer will DC. What DEVs can do is buffing bloodlust to cut out extremely long chases or re-work the way pallet towns are placed on maps, so that survivors can't safely run from one pallet town to another one. Survivors will need a buff in return.
An unbiased algorithm, ha. They present crude statistics without additional information and do not provide any raw data or any means to draw your own conclusions. This is how easy it is to trick people into believing something using statistics. As Mark Twain once said, "There are lies. There are damned lies. And there are statistics."