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They just shouldn't give a stackable amount of speed but be like placebo tablet (but oppsoite ofc) -> increase the base speed by x amount (current one would be fine), so rushes speed would be set and not incrementing for each rush
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I would be fine if speed add-ons maintained their value, but didn't stack for every rush. So the speed boost is fixed and doesn't increment
The rest of the broken add-ons: nuke them from the face of earth
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Map offerings being hidden would be SWEET
I would rather have them removed entirely
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600590#Comment_3600590
One you dont know how difficult it is to hook each survivor the first time. Especially when one plays more stealthy and the others aggro. Two. We have anticamp and i just said that was a idea for a mid-game slow mechanic because that seems to be the problem is the killer can never catch up in the mid-game. Obviously if they made it a basekit thing thered be stipulations around it like what otz said in his video. Three. Im a player not a dev. Im sure they have better ideas then me. Just made a suggestion for something killers have been asking for for years so that regression can finally be pushed away from a meta. And you dont feel like you need to tunnel or 3 gen or camp because theres actually something awarding you for spreading pressure amongst the survivors.
Lets just be respectful.
I don't know? I mostly play killer bro
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600590#Comment_3600590
Let me guess, you also think 3 gens are a problem and need to be removed, but don't think the fact that killers typically lose 2-3 gens in the first chase is a problem which by definition is creating the 3 gen problem?
Glad you asked! Usually I wouldn't reply to you since you tend to make assumptions and strawmans to twist arguments in your favor with stuff that has nothing to do with the topic (just like now), but I'll make an exception today since I stated what I think about the 3gen rework already:
@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597323#Comment_3597323
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597353#Comment_3597353
To be fair that can be turned around to some survivors too. I would reword your first sentence to "Forums have a selection bias and I do think they draw out the worst players" only.
I clearly remember people defending old CoH, DH or MFT, or other broken stuff like old medkits (labeling it as balanced and telling killers to just get good) , but ofc survivors always gravitates towards the easiest, highest return strategies. Sounds familiar?
Anyway, I just hope that they'll mostly concentrate their work into fixing gen spawns to avoid stuff like this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6LIX9X7UP8OA/20231130213039-1-7e2.jpg
But I'm curious to see what solution they have in mind that will keep into account killers going for 3gen strats without penalizing them if the survivors did it themselves
Here is my stance on it!
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600457#Comment_3600457
I might agree with otzs take as a mid-game slow where if you hook each survivor once the gens get blocked for 40 seconds then embrace makes it 60.
That sounds so balanced! 60 seconds where the survivors can literally do nothing while the killer has no reason whatsoever to leave the hook because all gens are blocked anyway, for the duration of a whole hook stage too!
You should totally get hired at bhvr, you'd be a great addition to the balance team
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spiders 🤤🤤
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600234#Comment_3600234
Those tiles that you showed are perfectly balanced around M1 killers, no? Ofc, they are bad against someone who can hit across the wall. But what do you want? Every tile and loop to be longer and more safe? That will be a 100% one sided mentality.
For me, some of the really unsafe pallets are present on RPD (and I think you know which are). Like these pallets are not ok, where the killer have pretty much 100% chance of hitting.
No, those tiles are a guaranteed hit for m1 killers, which is different
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600230#Comment_3600230
Yeah, you're right.
Balance = 20 pallets with 1.5 m distance in between. God pallets one after another, connected to 2 god windows, that you can't go around, with the loops that you can't mindgame because of the short walls or rocks.
I see you.
Yeah right because I wasn't the first one to complain about the "reworked" GoJ in ptb feedback. There's a sweet spot between GoJ and a map clutterd with unsafe useless tiles. Nostromo leans on the other side, and just cuz there's "more survivor sided maps" in the game than "killer sided" doesn't excuse this joke of unplayable map
But I guess balanced = I get my free hit regardless of how I play just cuz theres almost no mindgameable tile here. Reminds me of that content creator that was saying the new tile in azarov that luckily got now reowkred was actually balanced
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@Grigerbest said:
I think you're completely wrong.
Nostromo wreckage is the only Licensed map that screams: - balance. This is how balance should be on all maps imo.
It's mind boggling to me that, whenever someone creating a post about GoJ or Haddonfield or any other actual problematic map, everyone seems to ignore it. But when a fairly balanced map being called "garbage", everyone is freaking out and agree.
I'm afraid for this game future balance, when I see posts like this, I'm not gonna lie.=)
Balance = empty areas and loops so short and unsafe a killer can m1 from either side of the corner and reach the survivor. There's like 2 safe tiles in that map, the rest isn't even mindgameable, it's just unsafe
It's easy to call balance when every loop is this calibre:
https://i.imgur.com/0GuYlIm.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/YWPBIal.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/X3VpReB.jpegike ######### are these
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I agree, nostromo is the open field version of Hawkins. It really needs a rebalancing
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Yellow pathing >>>
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597028#Comment_3597028
The theme of the roadmap is "fixing things that both sides find frustrating", and survivors weaponizing DS was the most complained about part of the perk. It's the reason it got the conspicuous action stuff added, and it was the reason it got the 3 second nerf.
Ds want nerfed to 3 seconds because of that, don't spread lies. The 3 seconds nerf came with the attempt to shake the meta, when otr took its place
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I wouldn't call it 100% survivor sided. It really depends on the killer you're against in some cases, like knight or spirit for example
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@Krazzik said:
She's absurdly-strong and there's not really much you can do to counter her. If the person playing her is good, then 90%+ of survivors are going to lose, fast, against her.
Look at all the "no perks or addons" winstreaks that Nurse players can get. Yes, they're undoubtedly very skilled with her, but those kind of winstreaks should be impossible.
There's literally one single person doing a no perks no add-ons streak on nurse and he's the first one to admit that he should easily get at least 3 outed like this. Why is he not? Literally because 99% of survivors are terrible and go in complete panic as soon as a killer plays in a "sweaty" way (proxy camping, tunneling), again, while he's perk less and addonless!
And I gotta say, watching his streak is infuriating because god are most survivors so clueless at this game. So let's nerf nurse to pander to this kind of players
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@Gabe_Soma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3599148#Comment_3599148
90% of killer perks turn unskilled people into 4k'ers without any effort.
I don't disagree
You should open a thread about it so I can comment on it too
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She needs to lose her blink tokens when stunned and forced into fatigue again like she used to
And I would reintroduce lightburn again, it didn't need to be removed from her and artist
Other than that, she's fine. Her power breaks the core mechanics of the game as much as other anti loop killers that hit through stuff 👍🏻 there are killers who "follow the game mechanics" that are a lot more problematic than her in this sense, at least against nurse you can play around her power
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I don't understand, the tail hit box is working fine for me...
Can I recommend a cross hair for you people?
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Did you consider learning pallet spawns & map layouts?
The most annoying thing about that perk is that it turns even bad survivor into ok-ish loopers because they just brainlessly follow the yellow path
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I didn't follow the live stream but if they only said "we're gonna change these things" without saying what's the actual planned change, then of course people will be worried. The past (and present) speaks for itself, so being told "yeah we're gonna tweak x thing, but no details are available yet" will obviously spark some questions
Then again, some people will just make up apocalyptic scenarios in their mind too, but those are a minority I hope
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@Firellius said:
"I'm concerned because it seems like the mindset they're adopting to address pain points in the gameplay loop is all stick and no carrot."
Carrots don't work. Killers will gravitate to the easiest, highest return strategy, and will continue to do so. Overpowered strategies (yes, chess merchant was plainly broken) need to be nerfed down, since you can't provide an alternative without breaking the game's balance even further.
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597325#Comment_3597325
Forums have a selection bias and I do think they draw out the worst killer players. Lots of forum killers are myopic or have an inflated perception of their own skill ('I am T O P M M R'). That's not to say there's no absolutely horrendous survivor takes either, but there's a lot of other 'survivor mains' that'll happily smack those down as well.
That aside, I gave 2 good examples of carrots that work. Pain Res and Devour Hope. If a carrot doesn't work, it doesn't mean carrots don't work at all. It just means it's a bad carrot. See Grim Embrace as an example.
Neither of those work though. Pain Res has been around for a long time and hasn't really done much to deter tunnelling, and Devour Hope has a very low pick-rate.
What has provably worked though, is DS, but that got absolutely gutted for no particular reason.
We've heard this 'carrot vs stick' argument a great many times, and it's not a solution. Whatever you'd want the 'carrot' to be would have to outpace tunnelling, camping, slugging, 3-genning for effectiveness, without also bolstering those tactics. Currently, the overall game balance is in a good state. Killers are -slightly- more powerful on average, showing more wins than losses, and your solution to fixing exploitative tactics is to very, very, -very- severely buff them.
Do you see the problem I have with that?
To be fair that can be turned around to some survivors too. I would reword your first sentence to "Forums have a selection bias and I do think they draw out the worst players" only.
I clearly remember people defending old CoH, DH or MFT, or other broken stuff like old medkits (labeling it as balanced and telling killers to just get good) , but ofc survivors always gravitates towards the easiest, highest return strategies. Sounds familiar?
Anyway, I just hope that they'll mostly concentrate their work into fixing gen spawns to avoid stuff like this
But I'm curious to see what solution they have in mind that will keep into account killers going for 3gen strats without penalizing them if the survivors did it themselves
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597894#Comment_3597894
That's got nothing to do with "dumbing down" the game. One locker grab has blind protection, the other not. That's just stupid.
Yeah, both shouldn't have protection tbh
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597369#Comment_3597369
You can bodyblock a survivro puitting in a tape. If played correctly, autoaim will always hit the bodyblocker.
Again, if you lost the first tape already to an m1 and sadako decides to target you, you have physically no way to pick up a second one to begin with, because Sadako can prevent you from doing that.
The only possible play against this playstyle is to be a sufficiently good looper to make it absolutely not worth it to commit to you while the rest of the team is doing gens, which tbh is fine for me cause she's literally just an m1 killer, but there's no way at all it's fair for a killer to be able to entirely bypass the hook mechanic against less consistent players in chase when the effort required to kill them isn't that much either
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597364#Comment_3597364
Bodyblocks and put the tape in ANY tv
What bodyblocks? She can phase through survivors while demanifested. If you're targeted you have physically no time to put the tape anywhere, just like you don't have time to pick one up after you've lost the first
Key word: targeted
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3597359#Comment_3597359
Nothing you can do?
Please explain to me what you can do if you get targeted other than delay the inevitable mori
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@jesterkind said:
They did a good job with both, they're just unpopular killer designs.
Edit: Also, the track record for killer tweaks extends beyond just those two reworks. You'd also look at Legion, Ghostface, Trickster, Trapper, and going back a little further also Plague, Spirit, and Deathslinger. So clearly, the track record is "mixed" if you're being as generous as possible to this stated conclusion, and "positive" if you're being reasonable.
You forgot Bubba and Doctor, both pretty good reworks
Unlike Skull Merchant's
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596702#Comment_3596702
Because they have to interact with Tapes if they don't want to be mori'd.
That's kind of a dumb statement, people dislike new sadako because if she targets you specifically there's nothing you can do about it considering she can effortlessly prevent you from interacting with the tapes entirely. Same problem old sadako had btw
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bad m2 killers crutch on it
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Hag might be disliked but she's in a very weak spot right now, while also having some terribly unfun mechanics/add-ons
So she does need an update more than just a few tweaks
Regarding huntress, I just hope they're reducing her fridge-like hitboxes to something more decent (uhm acktchualy that hit was because of latency ☝️🤓)
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Never trust one shotting killers with their "friendliness"
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Anyway, since I missed the stream, did they explicitly say what they're doing with DS? Did they explicitly used the word buff?
Otherwise for all we know they might just rework it into something completely different
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@appleas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596283#Comment_3596283
According to here, Conspicuous Actions (CA) was first introduced in PTB 6.1.0, the 3s nerf and deactivation due to CA is mentioned in the same page too.
The DBD wiki here also indicates that the DS changes were all released together within the same patch. The Conspicuous Action page also indicates that the concept CA was implemented in 6.1.0.
I also looked at the previous patches, 6.0.X and there was no mention of Conspicuous Actions.
So if there was a patch that somehow got introduced between 6.1.0 PTB and 6.1.0 release patch which didn’t have the DS changes, please enlighten me on where I can find this information. Then we can talk about this period of time where DS was still 5 seconds and was deactivated by CA only.
The term conspicuous action got introduced with 6.1.0, prior to that (patch 4.6) DS had a list of actions in its description that would tell what would disable it. "Conspicuous action" was introduced to include all of them, and opening the exit gate was added. This was so the term could be generalized for other perks too, and the endurance effect
Decisive Strike is a Unique Perk belonging to Laurie Strode.Prestige Laurie Strode to Prestige 1, 2, 3 respectively to unlock Tier I, Tier II, Tier III of Decisive Strike for all other Characters. Nerf: slightly reduced the original stun times of 3/4/5 seconds to 3/3.5/4 seconds. Rework: Decisive Strike is now an Obsession Perk. No change: Decisive Strike remains unchanged in functionality for the Killer's Obsession. Nerf: Decisive Strike now requires non-Obsession Survivors to progress the wigg -
@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596201#Comment_3596201
More Nurses that sends you to Midwich I quess.
Idk I dodge every map offering
Other than that, I wish I saw more nurses, they're legit fun to go against when your team knows what to do
Other than that, you're saying it as if nurses using midwhich offering is literally the only altrenative to not seeing tricksters around, which is obviously not the case
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Is he really that unplayable? So less tricksters around? Good
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Idk I find killer less stressful than a game being thrown for reasons out of my control, like a survivor really having to do that stupid challenge in that game. Stuff that really removes the fun from my game
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@saintjimmy456 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593704#Comment_3593704
Xeno might not be dead but I have seen it once in my last 50 games, so from my experience it is at least dying.
I don't blame people for pre-empting a Chucky nerf. Xeno came out, he was everywhere, super strong, survivors struggling to fight back, then the devs make changes, it becomes easier to play against, now you barely see it.
Why would you not be worried about hearing all the hype about how strong Chucky is, spend money on him, then in a month he gets a major change to make him weaker?
Spirit is still the 3rd strongest killer in the game, yet the only moment her pick rate skyrocketed since her basekit/addons nerf was when the Hooked on you skin was released (totally because people wanted to try that skin, obviously not because incidentally her phasing sound was bugged with that same patch and non directional anymore, turning her into pre-nerf spirit again). Bug was fixed and she almost disappeared again, while still being the third strongest killer and arguably easier to play than other strong killers
People simply read the words nerf and immediately think something is dead. Xeno might not be top tier, but it's still solid and the thing that affected it the most was a bugfix, not a nerf.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593850#Comment_3593850
To be fair it just sounds like a killer version of hope that only works near generators. If hopes fine. I don't see how batteries would be horrible. Its just a end game bonus without a instadown unlike noed.
My viewpoint on this is that killer in endgame is already at its strongest potential: most if not all resources on the map are gone, usually at least one team member is or should be dead, some killers already might have an instadown and if not they might be pairing it with noed. I wouldn't mind the perk, if noed already didn't have that stupid speed boost
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A huntress playing with 2 perks found survivors who could actually play against her and she didn't appreciate it
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593927#Comment_3593927
What’s your point? Lol
That doesn’t refute that drop vaults are broken. I use them all the time when I play survivor.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594024#Comment_3594024
Can’t block the windows if you’re not in chase. If you know you know. If you don’t, then your game knowledge isn’t up there yet.
My point being that it was rare and very counterable in most instances (CT & Ormond mbs + Hawkins window, I honestly can't think of any other mb where you could do this) only being problematic that rare times a hill would spawn right in front of shack window in like 2 or 3 maps of the whole game, where you could simply drop the chase.
In like 6 or more months that the bug has been out, I can recall only one time that it was used effectively against me, in storehouse, and I simply dropped the chase in that area
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@[Deleted User] said:
I agree that FTP+Buckle Up and Background Player are problematic.
I feel like Background Player is an honest mistake that happens to BHVR when they have newer devs on the team every couple years. On its own on one survivor in a trial, it's manageable. But they forgot to question and test how the perk would affect gameplay if multiple survivors had it and used it in coordination in the same trial. This is a cyclical thing that happens to BHVR every couple years or so. Mettle of Man (release version) comes to mind. What if every survivor in the trial has it?
FTP+Buckle Up is just annoying. I've never really lost a trial because of it off the top of my head. But I've had trials take forever because I'm playing whack-a-mole on 4 survivors that have FTP+Buckle Up.
FTP+Buckle up is not just annoying, it's straight up broken
It's annoying when you get the wannabe pub juicers that, as you said, just drag on forever a game. But if used with brain it's beyond broken, not even MFT gets as close as this combo
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@HugTechLover said:
Dude, drop vaults are broken af on some structures. Can create infinites.
Literally 3 structures in the entire game, and most people don't even know about it. Let's not pretend that this bug affected you on a daily basis as much as some killer "techs", it probably affected anyone of us at most once if ever
That being said, @op, those killer bugs will never be fixed, so you might as well learn to deal with them
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593179#Comment_3593179
That's not quite what seems to be happening. For around 5 games, I'll have teammates near my experience level (~4500 hours). Even if I can't check their hours, there are lots of P100s. The killers are sweaty but we can manage. After winning too many in a row, it puts me in lobbies with relatively inexperienced teammates. I check the hours and see as low as 300 hours in those games, P0 or P1s. The killers aren't very good, but the teammates really struggle and there's nothing I can really do. I lose a couple and then it puts me back with players near my skill level. Rinse repeat.
It doesn't seem like an MMR bracket thing. It wouldn't make sense that players with thousands of hours and solid game sense are hard stuck in an MMR bracket below players with a fraction of their experience level. Even if it were MMR-related, my win rate is still over 70% in the last week. I'd have climbed by now. It feels more like win rate manipulation on some level.
Maybe there's some overflow bug in the MMR rating and once players reach the maximum they just end up being at the bottom, rinse and repeat 😂
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I honestly don't agree with this piece at all: "To give you an idea of what I mean, every game will go one of three ways: The NBW Core, The Training Montage, and The Three Gen" , games vary quite a lot and I don't really encounter nurse almost at all, and most of the times she's jsut terrible and not even her lazy aura + regression build doesn't help at all. Weskers and Blights are quite frequente yeah, but again only a few blights are good enough to be actually problematic, and strong weskers are even rarer. To this, add the unbalance of maps and most games against these killers are usually easy, and actually, I see wesker and blight so often that games against "tryharding W/Bs" go way smoother than against rarer killers that I'm not accustomed to verse.
But then again, I only 4-man with people who know what they're doing as well and I absolutely refuse to soloq.
For the rest, when it comes to new chapters I don't feel anything at all as well. When it comes to mid-chapters though, I do feel excitement: balance changes are the only thing interesting left at this point. However, that excitement turns into disappointment many times. After all these years, I can't help but think devs really don't understand their own game at all. Most recent disappointment: GoJ "rebalancing" (map literally unchanged). I'd honestly feel ashamed to write in a dev note they're rebalancing a map when the only thing that changed is the addition of a breakable wall which does absolutely nothing
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@UnusedAccount said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592853#Comment_3592853
I'm guessing the only way people are allowed to play Skull Merchant is to run no-perks build then?
Oh who am I kidding, that would come off dull to Survivors as well.
Please point out where in my message did I say what one is allowed or not to do
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592853#Comment_3592853
Yes, people think that SM is horrible because she can protect a 3-gen
That was the case before, now she can protect a 3-gen and having a disgusting chase power
Chase merchant was horrible to face even before the rework. There was nothing interactive even back then
"But I play chase merchant" yeah and?
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@UnusedAccount said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592519#Comment_3592519
I'm honestly curious how many of those are free kills from Survivors giving up. Because a lot of Survivors give up whenever I played Skull Merchant. And I use a chase build.
How does using a chase build make her any less dull to go against? It arguably makes it even more horrible
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592463#Comment_3592463
No it’s not, you’re coping. GoJ should be an easy 4k for any killer. 💅🏼
I've got an acquaintance who unironically thinks this
Guess what role he plays the most
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592763#Comment_3592763
So the problem is that SM does the same thing as others do more easily? That shouldn't matter from a survivor perspective. The result is the same.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592770#Comment_3592770
Dropping the pallet works against beginner Clown. One day you may meet a better one. One of the telltale signs is that they'll have the bonus speed from yellows whenever it matters.
Otherwise the bloodlust part is a fair point. I keep forgetting that there are survivors out there who keep losing against no map mobility m1 killers who's chases are so long that bloodlust kicks in.
It actually is a problem because we have once again a Freddy situation of low (zero) skill high reward and adding to this an extremely dull gameplay
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592757#Comment_3592757
As far as I know that's also the counter for a better Clown, Artist or any Knight. Where are the 'delete Clown!' threads?
Clown actually has to: think where to throw the bottles, use another bottle to get haste, get the m1 twice
None of these apply to sm (most important being the thinking part)
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592743#Comment_3592743
Wait, are you saying that the mass of people who dc against her instead of learning the simple counters of this low-tier killer don't even play as her? How could they be objective then?
Ah yes the counter of "just go to another loop"