Thusly_Boned
Thusly_Boned
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Not much. I'll just stop and look at them. Try and look cute if the character I'm playing suits it. Maybe crouch and put my item down.
Most of the time the killer has already decided if they're gonna let you go or not.
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@ChaosWam said:
I still have fun playing both sides, idk.
People say you have to be insane to enjoy the game, but really, once you hit a level of understanding it becomes fun. The real issue is the game takes a LOT of time to understand.Yeah, the information floor you have to be at to have fun is really high relative to other games. It's not mechanically demanding at all, you just have to have enough learned and stored game sense. When you've been playing for years it's easy to lose sight of that. The new player experience must suck out loud at this point.
But I also enjoy playing both sides a great deal (and yes, solo queue) most of the time. I definitely have moments, even when I'm playing well, where I ask myself why I am doing it.
But as far as how to have fun in DBD over the long term, there are two ways, imo:
- Play an S/A-tier killer or in a 4-man comms squad and sweat your balls of to negate risk of losing
- Don't take this unserious game seriously, and play for the lulz
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Everyone has their own definition of "cheating", but I ask myself two questions:
- Does it confer a gameplay advantage over stock DBD?
- Can anyone on any platform safely replicate it?
To me, if it's yes to the first and no to the second, it's cheating, whether the devs come out and say it or not. Ultimately, it's up to the individual, as DBD is already a hilariously imbalanced mess trying desperately (and failing) to be properly competitive. But to me the minute you start tooling around with the visuals, you've started up a slippery slope.
As far the OP, shaders and such aren't explicitly bannable, but if you cross some arbitrary and ill-defined line and get popped, there's no coming back. After all these years I wouldn't risk my account for an aesthetic change, but that's me.
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Jason Voorhees
Kayako
Pennywise
Robert Englund Freddy (the actual Freddy)
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Spirit, because I like j-horror and Onryos.
And for my first 8+ months, all I did was main killer exclusively as Spirit. I gradually mixed in more killers, then started playing surv in like year 2. I don't play her much anymore since I have hearing issues and her nerfs made it so you pretty much have to use audio tracking, which bums be out. I only have her P15, but she would have easily been my first P100 if I started in the current system.
I still get most of her cosmetics even though I rarely use her, probably out of some weird loyalty to the one who got me addicted to the game.
Funnily enough, I originally bought the game for my kid (who stopped playing after like a month) and only started playing when I realized Ash Williams was playable (I'm a huge Evil Dead fan), but immediately went to killer when I saw I could play as an Onryo.
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@R2k said:
There should be option to escape together. Simply abandoning will be abused any time in the game for example on survivor first down…
If survivors fixed more gens than survivors are alive. In this case it would be 3. They should be able to find CLOSED hatch and escape for example by finding/bringing key. It would make games more cooperative and interactive than simply RQ or DC because you are frustrated or bored
So move back towards old hatch? Yeah, no thanks. There may be an answer here, but that ain't it.
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I play primarily on PS5 and some on PC, and there is absolutely an input delay on PS5 relative to PC. It's most notable on skill checks, as mentioned above. If you hit the button at the point it would net a great skill check on PS5 on PC, you'll miss it because you were too early.
This lag is also present on other places as well.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3967270#Comment_3967270
This is insanity... why do you want to punish someone for not wanting to play a game with you the way you want? Why cant they play the game the way they want to? I don't want to be tunneled, I dont want to be camped and I certainly don't want to be slugged out. There was a post a couple months ago from a killer main complaining survivors who abandoned the match didn't technically show they lost. This is how petty some of you are. You care more about making other people miserable then actually enjoying the game for what is. Good example people who care about win streaks. No other game in the world allows people who play to get hundreds upon hundreds of wins (3ks). And you know why that doesn't happen because people to keep playing games they cant a chance at fairly
If people want to play games only the way they want to, that's fine, but they should probably play single player games.
Every single match has five players in it, and no one person's wants matter more than the other four, and when one person does something that ruins the experience for the other four…yeah, that should be punished. No one is playing in a vacuum here, and punitive measures for leaving your teammates in a lurch aren't unfair an arbitrary.
If you play this game long enough (and it really isn't that long), you come to know all the various flavors of BS you can run into, and are likely to run into. I've said it dozens of times before, but if you aren't willing to eat some of that crap from time to time, you shouldn't play. Most or all of us will get to that point sometime, and then it will be time to move on.
DbD isn't Burger King, no one gets to have it their way all the time.
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If people are leaving the match prematurely, I prefer the scenario where:
- They're at least replaced by a bot
- They're being punished for it
And the old, tired line of "fIx tHe GAmE and peOple won'T gO Next" is a total cop out. The game will never be perfect or balanced, and letting people decide for themselves when something is "unacceptable" will mean some people will always find a reason to quit. There will always be reasons for those looking for them.
My stance is and will remain this: if a person finds that the game's flaws make it miserable enough for them them that they don't want to play, that's totally valid. But the solution is to not play. Screwing over everyone else so they can make that choice on a match to match basis is not acceptable, and should be punished.
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Sadako, Plague, and Huntress, mainly. And I'll also have scratched mirror Myers play sessions because I love scaring people into messing their pants. I was a Spirit main for a long time, but her nerfs made her unrewarding to play for me (I'm half deaf and can't track well using audio, so I needed to use prediction/surprise, which isn't viable now).
But I'm all about J-Horror, which mostly what I mained Spirit (and now Onryo).
But I'll play any killer at any given time aside from Nurse/Blight. And Unknown, for some reason I forget it even exists.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964579#Comment_3964579
I don't think she created the exact same scenario as OG Legion, my friend. Skull Merchant had to scan you three times before the claw trap is even applied to you, and then she can play around Haste and Hindered, which you, as a survivor, is not helpless against. Sure, there were situations where you would go down, but that goes for every single killer in the game. Not one of them can be looped indefinitely, not anymore. Skull Merchant provided you with counter play, something that OG Legion didn't do.
But the thing is, my friend, Legion's changes didn't go as deep as Skull Merchant's proposed changes would. Legion runs fast and stabs people, that hasn't changed. The specifics around it changed. Skull Merchant is a set up killer with AoE traps that scan survivors, and that would have been replaced by a Twins-style dash attack and mid-range M2 like the countless we already have. It isn't the same. It is an erasure of identity.
The design previews are comparable to the idea of allowing Trapper to manually control his bear traps and have them running around chomping survivors. Or Hag's phantasms being controllable, finding a survivor, and only then letting her teleport.
I would say, my friend, that it didn't work for those who would rather give up and leave rather than actually trying to play the match. For those players, yes, SM 2.0 didn't work, but the result would have been the same for any other killer, if they did the same thing. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that the perfectly fine and fair games I had against Skull Merchant 2.0 were also experienced by countless players out there. I can guarantee you, my friend, that if we had her in the game right now with the anti go next, players would have a much better understanding of what to do against her.
The problem here is that putting it into any other context doesn't work because each killer has a different reason for their kill rates. Let's say Ghoul, pre-buff Freddy and Skull Merchant had 70% kill rates. We can't dismiss all three as overpowered. Ghoulsis overpowered, most certainly. Pre-buff Freddy's high kill rates were due to being picked mostly by experienced players, and survivors lacking experience in playing against him. Skull Merchant's can be easily explained by failed attempts at hook suicides and, just like Freddy, lack of experience. Because you can't improve if many games you play against a killer has someone DCing because of a problematic release that had already been fixed. It isn't silly, my friend, it is a matter of looking at each case individually.
As for the last question, friend, well… when I first started playing DBD, if I asked pretty much any killer player out there who was the weakest killer in the game, they would say Freddy. But I didn't agree with that, and I have made many posts over the years trying to explain why I didn't consider him the weakest. Skull Merchant 2.0 is another killer that I like, and I'm trying to explain why I support her return to the game and why I don't think she was problematic, at all.
I appreciate your passion on this subject, and I genuinely feel for people who invested time and money in a character who is going to be fundamentally changed. but despite the support of a vocal minority, SM 2.0 isn't coming back. There's no way we've gotten to the point we have and they are just going to be like "you know what, we'll just revert her instead". That's just a pipe dream.
Not only because she was and is historically unpopular, but because I think her rework is going to end up being part of a broader move away from trap/setup killers, who are all among the most unpopular and/or weakest killers in the game.
I'm generally a fan of variety, but I think the broader audience's taste for more active simple and direct interaction as opposed to passive interactions (i.e. strategically interacting with the killer's proxies rather than the killer) is going to drive things going forward. It's simplifying/dumbing down, but I think that's where we're headed. I don't think we'll see another trap killer.
I'm sad about that in general, but for SM in particular, there was no path forward for her other than radical change, even if devotees can't see that.
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I don't think anyone should expect to see SM paid any attention until the rework drops. She's gonna live in the dumpster for a while, I think. I just wouldn't expect the dev team to spend any time whatsoever on changes they know will be completely meaningless in the long term.
Sucks of you're a SM main for sure, but if it were me I'd rather just play another killer until then than spend any time at all working on a playstyle that I know for a fact is going totally out the window in the not too distant future.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961784#Comment_3961784
Sounds like an awful lot of defense of a poor position.
But hey, you've shown excellently who the reasonable party is. We have Side A, which believes there is no toxicity in Ba Sing Se and Side B, who acknowledges said toxicity and tries, if misguidedly, to do something about it.
Yeah, it's all justification.
It's like society, if you do something that is technically legal but violates the social contract, is it the institution's fault and not yours? Is the burden of responsibility for your bad behavior their fault? Of course not, that's absurd.
"I accept no fault for my misdeeds so long as the construct allows them to happen; blame the overlords" is sociopathic thinking. It's total abdication of personal accountability.
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@TheArbiter said:
I mean when you play as survivor you are only 1/4th of the team, you can goof around or make mistakes and you only account for 25% of the team. Meanwhile when you play killer 100% of the success is on you. Make one mistake and that can be extremely costly. As kosaba above mentioned more people who play killer stress for the 4k and when combined with you being 100% of the team… well you can see why it is more stressful to most people when compared to playing survivor.
Pretty much this.
The caveat is that it is more stressful if you really want to win, and moreso if you prefer non-S/A tier killers.
But as a survivor, the pressure to complete objectives is spread out, and the killer's attention is spread out. There's more downtime where you're just working on mindless objectives. And when people lose, they most often can (and do, with gusto) spin it into being their teammate's fault, whether or not there is any truth there.
While being at the mercy of your team is frustrating in many ways, it's also liberating. Rarely does a single survivor own their losses or wins.
As a killer, it's just you (and RNG) versus the world. And if the RNG is against you, you're just screwed from load-in.
People who are really loss averse will mitigate that by maining s-tier killers and doing things like tunneling, but for many they have to be fully "on" the whole match in order to win.
Of course, if you're just playing for fun all that goes out the window.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957374#Comment_3957374
I just dont understand ppls obsession with mass hoarding these things. The idea of people being pissed because they ONLY got 2000 cakes to last them a year is nuts... especially when they say they dont play often. I looked through my different killers last night, and I still have hundreds of unused cakes from previous years going all the way back to the 3rd year anniversary.
They DID have an issue with the level 50 bloodweb that was effecting P100 people, but they worked on that QUICK.
If you play a lot you'll burn through the cakes pretty fast, though. I like to hoard enough that it gets me through the year (using them in most/all matches). I'll retain one of each (to scratch the collector's itch), then stock up at the next anniversary, then rinse and repeat). I just want enough to get me to next anniversary.
But I don't play an insane amount, and the spawn rate this year is probably going to leave me short.
Also, I think players have a stockpile of cakes also helps with the map offering issue, as people seem burn cakes over other stuff if they have them to burn.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/448931/recommendations
If you don't mind me asking, would you be open to sharing which recent changes have impacted the stealthy playstyle you prefer?
When it comes to collecting feedback and bringing it back to the team, it really helps to have specifics, and I want to make sure I have an accurate read on what you're describing here.I don't generally play stealthy, but the proliferation of aura reading and other perks that reveal you and/or otherwise notify the killer of your location over the past couple years has been insane. To the point where stealthy gameplay styles aren't really a viable option any longer.
The recent changes in the recent update are just the icing on the cake.
From the other side, as recently as a couple of years ago, your options as a killer were pretty limited in terms of aura reading and the like. Now there is a veritable buffet of options to basically give yourself a steady stream of survivor location info. It's not that any one of them are OP, it's that there are so many now that you can cover each one's weakness with another's strengths and keep your bases covered.
And now we're raising killers who can't function without them, which is a big part of why Distortion got nerfed, which just exacerbates the problem.
And if the team wants to make DbD an interaction first game, so be it. But there's not a lot of mystery here as to why someone would say they can't stealth anymore as survivor.
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@Mringasa said:
Escape rate in solo queue, only thing I play, is 35% all time. Seems about right. I'm overly altruistic and will go in for a save no matter the circumstances. Really enjoy getting someone else out of the trial, even if I end up dying on a hook.
Solo queue is what you make of it. Try out different Perk selections. I find my builds to rarely even touch the Meta Perks. There's a couple I'll use in certain builds, but for the most part I pick a role and then build to support it. If you're having difficulty escaping, check your game play and builds. Frequently, especially for solo queue, you are better off the Meta. Perks like Aftercare, Bond, We'll Make It, Calm Spirit, and a few others can really help out as a solo. They aren't worthwhile for SWF, especially aura/info Perks since they get those for free with comms, but having that info can make it or break it at times.
Yeah, I am also an altruist. I go back in to save people when I could just walk out, I will hook trade when I am on death hook, and will almost always give myself up if it gets others out. That's just the way I like to play.
There's no way of quantifying this, but I would be surprised if my escape rate isn't at least 5-10% lower than it would be if I just played for my own escape in the late/endgame instead of being a foolhardy goober.
And I was wrong (having prior looked at my stats for my top surv) - my all-time (going back to 2020 as a surv) global escape rate is closer to 36%. Of those matches, only a handful (less than 5 total) did I not play on my own. And I don't play seriously, nor consider myself all that good.
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I play strictly solo queue when playing surv and have since 2020 (when I started playing survivor), and more and more surv each year since. I've played 3-4 matches not totally on my own, and all of them were years ago. According to DBD's stats, my global escape rate is just a hair under 40%.
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@Madmillennial said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954487#Comment_3954487
So.... I should be FORCED to wait the entire time in crap matches? I should be FORCED to wait an entire bleed out timer if everyone isn't down?
I should be told I have to play if I don't want to for whatever reason thats my businessand none of anyone else's dispite me paying to play like everyone else when for years.... we had that option and suddenly its taken from us... and I have no right to be upset about that change after having it since launch?
Here's the thing... when I play a game at the end of the day my own fun matters most. Not a stranger. If you can be gross and play how you want.. (slugging) (camping) (tunneling) th3n why can't I leave when I want? Is that not okay too?
We draw the line there? Despite all the problems everyone has... thats where we say no?
Sorry person who paid for the game. You WILL STAY IN THIS MATCH or else get a penalty even if its on your stomach… or on a hook.... the entire time...
Sounds like a single player game might be the answer for you.
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@indieeden7 said:
I agree, idk why they thought Plague needed to absolutely nuke any sort of stealth gameplay
You can play stealth versus Plague, you just have to choose whether or not to give her an extra use of her power to do it.
But no, they're not going to get rid of the vomiting. And even if they did replace it with coughing, they're certainly not going to reduce the frequency of it. The whole point is to make survivors choose between being noisy and eventually broken or letting her have the corrupt purge.
They're not going to let survs deny per power without a really annoying downside.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931969#Comment_3931969
I dont want them to be automatick escape but they are terrible to navigate in third person compared to first person view. They should make it same for both sides.
The thing here is that you have to know where you're at when you use it. They're pretty effective to use, particularly after breaking line of sight mid-chase, but you have to have the map/tile awareness to run blind for a couple of seconds at least.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
So, first of all, you need to understand that matchmaking in this game does not work to begin with. Even in normal 1v4 mode with normal queue times, it doesn’t work.
2v8 is a whole different issue because of the massive imbalance of killers to survivors in the queues. Even with matchmaking off, meaning that you can be paired with anyone regardless of MMR score, the killer queues are taking 15-30 minutes depending on time of day. If you wanted accurate matchmaking, you would be waiting for hours.
This is why I love downvoting. Two downvotes, and all you did was state facts, lol.
Reality is a harsh mistress for some people, I guess.
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Like just about everything else, BHVR is very permissive about these things because they are trying not to alienate any of their player base. One could argue that being so permissive leads to as many people leaving as banning the use of these things would, but that's another discussion.
As for whether third party software like ReShade and EQ are cheating, there are two ways to look at it:
- If it's not explicitly forbidden by the devs, it's not cheating
- If it's not intended or accounted for by the game's design, it's cheating
I'm probably more in the second camp than the first. Personally, I look at it like anything that changes the experience from the stock standard game lands on spectrum of angling for an unintended advantage. Like at the most mild/benign end you'd have something very simple like tweaking your monitor settings to increase visibility. On the extreme end you'd have blatant cheating/hacking.
I personally view stuff like ReShade/EQ as being more toward the extreme end than the benign end, even if they're technically permissible. I would also add voice comms to the middle here, though unlike ReShade/EQ I wouldn't call for them to banned (though I would just kinda shrug if they were, lol).
To make a real world reference here, many people (mostly Americans, so forgive me here) might recall the steroid era in baseball, and that the performance/accomplishments of players from that era are regarded as illegitimate, few are taken seriously, and almost none will make into the sports' hall of fame.
What many don't remember is that steroid use was not technically forbidden during most of that era.
Now DBD is just a dumb mess of a video game and not a tightly regulated professional sports league, but I (and I think many others) look at this sort of the same way: yeah, it's technically legal, but I don't take anything you do while using them seriously.
Nor when I use them because I wouldn't be able to take myself seriously if I did.
But at the end of the day DBD is a profoundly unserious game, even if some people look it like it's life and death, so beyond blatant cheating I just don't care all that much.
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I'd have PS+ regardless of whether I needed it to play online. Over the course of a year it more than pays for itself with all the free games.
FTR, I also have a gaming PC and game it a lot, but I have no issue paying for the PS+ sub.
But I suppose if a console is all you have and you just can't afford the sub, it'd be pretty annoying.
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It's more like Legion and Oni v. 8, because that's what it has been like 80% of the time.
And it's really, really tedious. Even when you escape it's long, grindy slog. I've played 2v8 exclusively when active every time before this, but now I'm rethinking that.
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This argument again?
I especially love the false equivalency to slugged survivors, which is apples and oranges absurdity.
No one forces the killer to watch survs teabag at the gate; no force transports you to the gate and fixes the camera on the survs, and the survs can't follow you around with the gate and force you to witness them like a killer can stay on top of you as you helplessly crawl.
Honestly, if people are so terrifed of lame survs teabagging in the gate, just open it yourself and don't go near either gate. Worst case you spend two minutes breaking stuff or otherwise scrounging BP. Or just go AFK.
And there's a non-zero chance one of the goobers comes out and gets themselves killed. And regardless, we're talking about a max of 120 seconds, during which you still have actual agency.
There is zero comparison to being humped by a killer for four minutes.
As a killer I don't sweat this at all. I won't give them the satisfaction of me watching them, but I find ways to spend the time. I'll break stuff, use my power/tp if it scores points, etc. If I'm playing Huntress I'll goof off trying drop orbitals or cross maps into the gate. If I'm playing a stealth killer a killer with a one shot power I'll hide just outside and see if I get one to come out (which does happen).
But I don't think "boy, I sure wish I could DC".
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3925958#Comment_3925958
Like... reaching level 200 you mean? or just the max cosmetic rewards? Because I dont play nearly as much as I used to in the past (very rarely even reach red ranks on either side) and I usually reach tier 85 with like a month left. I didnt even claim all my challenges either since I saved them up
I don't think I've ever not maxed a rift. Usually with a couple weeks to spare. I play a lot, but I don't dedicate all my free time to it or anything. And I don't play all that seriously. It's not (or wasn't, anyway) a particularly heavy lift.
But that's what made it so reasonable for everyone.
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On the one hand it's different, which makes it feel a little weird.
On the other hand, I actually like the colors better. More blue in my gui is always welcome, lol.
Honestly I don't care one way or the other, and it hasn't affected my experience in any meaningful way.
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No, it's not toxic in that case. At least no more so than trying to bail on your team is.
When I am the killer and a surv comes to me wanting out, I will put them on the ground once and then leave them. If their team wants to pick them up, fine. If they still refuse to play and/or come to me again, I will kill them last, or if all four remain alive until the gens are complete, I will attempt to kill the go next wannabe and let the rest go.
I want them to spend as much time in the match as possible without escaping. It feels like the morally upright thing to do, lol
I don't derive any real enjoyment from this, but I do it to do at least a little bit to discourage the behavior. Mostly because I play as much (or more) survivor and I loathe it when teammates quit early. It is my #1 peeve in DBD.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would not really say it is WoO. WoO shows you the aura of pallets, but does not make them more visible when you see them. And the person is also not really using it as WoO, since they are barely looking around for Pallets.
However, I also think that Reshade should not be allowed. It gives an advantage and the DBD-Community is notorious to make them game as ugly as possible for a slight advantage.
"But bro, it just looks better"… Yeah, shut up.
Yeah, I remember when people said the same "it looks better" thing about stretched res, which was even more transparent and absurd.
People are obviously free to do whatever is allowed within the constraints of what is deemed allowable by BHVR, but I personally take a pretty dim view of changing the aesthetics of the game in any way that confers any sort of advantage, even just cranking up the brightness/contrast* (and ReShade is toward the extreme end here).
Especially if the ability to do so isn't available on all platforms.
Certainly, if I were to lose a game to someone using such things I wouldn't take that loss seriously, and I don't know how they could take the "win" seriously.
But all in all, these sorts of inconsistencies are just another one of the myriad reasons not to take "competition" in this game too seriously.
*unless the player has an accessibility issue that necessitates it
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3918939#Comment_3918939
I know for a fact sometimes I just get total lobby mismatches, and it's worse when the lobby is slow to match. I had two Dredge games recently with very new Survs who didn't even know to lock lockers, and then got sweat city for my Pig, Oni, and Drac matches the same day due to lobby mismatch. THEN once 3-4 PM rolled around? Normal Dracula matches.
It's very odd.I would say that out of every 10 matches I play (in either role), conservatively 3-4 of the matches will have matchmaking that is total dogwater. At certain times of day it's far worse, and pretty much the only time I feel like most of the matches are pretty well (relatively) matched are Fri/Sat evenings when volume is high.
And if people drop out of the lobby and are backfilled, you can count on the match being a total SBMM mess.
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@danielmaster87 said:
The game shouldn't be giving you those killers if you're as casual as I'm suspecting, but if you're going in expecting to win, except the killers to play to win as well. Simple as.
You even understand the solution, for the matchmaking system to actually put people of like-hour'd, like-experienced players together. There's not need to nerf killers until that happens. And these matches aren't doomed from the start. Maybe you personally are not equipped to deal with those killers, but the game is kind of about overcoming obstacles. You CAN physically do stuff to prevent you loss, like doing gens and playing safe. Most do neither of those things, and then complain.
You're not doing your argument favors by wanting the killers to be punished for "pubstomping." They're just playing to win, not to cause misery for no good reason. That's the mischaracterization of killers I see constantly on here, because in reality they're as much a victim of the bad matchmaking system as you. Yes, people can wait a minute in queue for more accurate matchmaking, but that's to both sides' benefit, not just 1.
But the game does in fact mismatch players. Constantly. A lot of people don't like to accept that because recognizing that might lead to admitting that they themselves often win because of their opponents simply weren't that good. But no one is exempt from the benefits (and downfalls) of DBD's loose SBMM.
"I have to play like this to win at my MMR" is a total myth.
And while I don't think a killer matched against mid survivors shouldn't try to win, I don't think it's unreasonable to dial it back when you realize you're up against potatoes. I do it all the time. Like if your first chase takes like 15-20 seconds and there aren't any gens done by the time you've gotten multiple hooks, you might just be able to turn down the effort a tad, out of some degree consideration for the poor souls you got matched against.
Winning isn't so vital that anyone needs to keep the hammer down at all times, especially when you know for a stone cold fact that we're not getting matchmaking that is accurate even half the time.
As for the "solution", it's not coming. Because balancing things to a point where the MMR criteria itself means anything, much less SBMM as a whole, the following would need to happen (at a minimum):
- Standardize/balance the maps (lol)
- Standardize killer power by nerfing high tier killers and buffing low tier killers so all of them are roughly as viable as the others (again, lol)
- Create a system that assigns MMR rating based on a suite of factors and not just kills and escapes, which BHVR has shown no inclination to do
Those would get us a good part of the way there, but those things aren't going to happen, save maybe #3. And even if they all did, would it really even be DBD anymore? At this point, imbalance is as much a part of the game's identity as the horror theme. I can't think of a PvP game where "winning" says less about a player and their skill.
I think the best thing would be for some people to stop taking the game so seriously, because it's very much not a serious game.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Played at the average level, Kaneki wins no contest
However, when played at a higher/comp level, I'd say Blight wins
I don't think I play at top level, but on average the Blights I face are markedly more oppressive than the Ghouls. So far, anyway.
Will it still be that way when we get 5K hour Ghouls? Hard to say.
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@TicTac said:
Please no. Lets wait for bulk spending. Right now i have three choices:
- Stay at 5mio and lose bp
- Spend bp between matches, cant do anything else
- Spend everything at once. Takes ages, you can watch/do something else, still annoying.
Right now i spend my bp, but with bulk spending at the horizon, i gladly have my next bp-event (Anniversary hopefully) after that.
I've found that spending enough between matches to tread water (keep from losing any BP) isn't too hard.
I love all the BP, but when you earn so many for weeks, going back to normal feels bad, lol. I'd obviously rather have these events, but I also know that getting 300K+ BP per match isn't something that can be normal. It's a conundrum, lol.
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One reason not to implement in game voice chat is that a whole lot of people just don't want it. I sure don't want to be subjected to it. I'd rather escape 10% less than listen to randos squawking disjointed crap in my ear all game, every game. One of the reasons I play DBD is because it's an online game where I don't have to deal with that.
And before you say just to disable it, we all know that people would give each other hell, go next, and/or lobby dodge when they encountered others with it disabled.
Not to mention that there would almost certainly be compensatory buffs to killer if voice chat were made universal. And that voice comms between four total strangers likely wouldn't be nearly as effective as some might think. Especially if there are language barriers. SO how much would be gained, really?
Honestly, I think a few more upgrades to the survivor HUD and we'll be in pretty good shape. It won't be as good as voice comms with friends, but that option is obviously there via third party software if people are super hard up for it.
And on a totally personal note, I don't like the idea thematically. It's four survs dropped randomly in a trial, I doubt the entity would provide comms gear.
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A unique outfit is the obvious answer for me. P100 is hundreds of hours invested, and it seems fair.
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If you really want to be a world class sandbagger, put items down right in front of pallets and/or windows.
Recently I was trying to loop a killer at shack but one of my considerate teammates put their gas/blood can down right in front of the window.
That was nice.
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No, they won't, and there are many reasons, good and bad.
If it was shown, people would use MMR scores to be nasty to each other, and lobby dodging would be absolutely rampant. It would be an absolute mess.
They stopped showing prestige and grade in the pregame lobby for those reasons (and they barely tell us anything), anyone who things they're going to show us MMR is deluded.
People would be really upset when they see how loose/ineffective it is, but the outcry would change nothing. They can't tighten SBMM to a meaningful degree without causing a queue time apocalypse. We've seen it. There's simply nothing to be gained from it other than knowing in numerical terms how badly SBMM works.
I mean I'm also curious, but I think we all suspect the answer, and most of us suspect it doesn't really matter much anyway. And we're probably right. This game isn't just imbalanced, it's imbalance-able. Too many variables, too much RNG, too many inconsistencies.
@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916775#Comment_3916775
- It makes sense, why would you listen to people at low MMR anyway? This applies to a lot of things in irl situations as well.
- I agree with this but i don't think that this is all black and white. I genuinely think a lot of players just wanna know their MMR and know how the system works.
- Agreed. It was an extremely accurate system in the beginnning, remember when Dowsey had to sit in a queue for 4 hours as twins and when he finally got a match, he got destroyed? Game was literally unplayable during that whole time, it was literally sweat squads all the time and queues were atleast 5 minutes long.
The opinions of the people at low MMR matter because they comprise the majority of the player base. Just how much of a majority is unclear (their number is 90%, but we don't know who/how they're counting), but there's little doubt it is the solid majority.
And when you're running a business, that matters. You cater to the people who give you the most money. Whether we like it or not, basing your game balancing around the opinion of the elite few would be a cataclysmically bad idea. From a business standpoint, the opinions of 1000 weekend casuals is vastly more important than those of a relative few god-tier players.
Whether we like it or not, the 10K hour, 2000+ MMR players aren't the one keeping the lights on at BHVR, the casuals are. And if the game isn't friendly to them and they all stop playing, so does everyone.
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Singularity is quite strong for people willing to put in the effort. Not a super high skill ceiling, but you definitely have to work for your results with Singularity.
But yeah, he can be oppressive.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917123#Comment_3917123
Welcome to the thread! If you read what I've written, then you'd be able to answer this: if lightborn is okay, then why isn't distortion that is permanent okay? What if I find aura reading annoying? Killers can still hook without aura reads. You can argue until you're blue in the face about how aura read is "useless" but it's more for convenience and a little more.
If killers want "annoying" things to stop, then I'll defer to my previous comment about how some killers mains want to load in and auto-win a match. Everything an opposing human player can do to prevent you from winning can be seen as annoying. At a certain point, you have to tolerate mechanics you don't like instead of outright wanting a crutch to fully ignore them.
I am not a big fan of how aura reading has proliferated and how aura reading dependent many killers have become, but my answer would be twofold:
- Aura reading is actually powerful and often integral to a build, while flashlights are weak and easily countered
- Nothing really approximates aura reading, but flashlight saves are actually really easy to avoid
But regardless, I don't/wouldn't have a huge problem with either Lightborn or a permanent Distortion because if someone's entire strategy revolves around one thing (blinding or aura reading or anything else), that's a them problem. Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a smart thing to do, and always carries massive risk.
I don't believe "guaranteed value" should be a thing. Someone's whole build is dedicated to aura reading or flashlight plays and that gets negated by a perk? That's a them problem. Being able to adapt and win when your primary option is taken from you is perhaps the biggest indicator of actual skill.
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Lightborn is fine. Some people act like it totally negates some powerful and integral playstyle, but the reality is that flashlights kinda suck. They are the weakest survivor item, imo, and when playing killer I am happy to see them in the lobby.
Lightborn doesn't do anything that can't be 95% accomplished with positioning and a bit of situational awareness. Even when facing four flashlights and background player, I very rarely suffer a flashlight save. Like 99% of times I do get blinded is when breaking pallets, which is also fine, because it costs the surv distance.
On the rare occasion I do run it, it's not really to prevent being blinded, but to see how long I can hide that I am running it, and waste the surv's time (wasting survs' time is what flashlights do most effectively). But generally speaking Lightborn is closer to waste of a perk slot than something OP.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916601#Comment_3916601
It seems reasonable to assume that BHVR is stingy with details because it wouldn't reflect favorably at all
I think the general reason the DBD community is so curious about the details is because it's pretty unclear how anything is quantified, and questionable as to whether what is known is even applied to SBMM with consistency
About that. The general consensus about the rating is that only wins and losses count towards your MMR
For survivor, you gain points if you escape, or lose points if you are killed/sacrificed. You can have the best match ever, clearly outclassing your opponent, until you exhaust all resources and get caught. I managed to double-pip despite being hooked and sacrificed in the endgame, but I know all too well that I will still lose MMR because I did not escape in the end.
And for killer, it is all about getting 3 or 4 kills to count the game as a win. 2 kills is considered a draw, and 1 or 0 kills are considered a loss.
The curiosity stems from whether or not this is the truth behind MMR gains / losses.The curiosity stems from whether or not this is the truth behind MMR gains / losses.
Yeah, I'm aware of the consensus, but there have been lot of conflicting reports/speculation about that, and a lot of people wonder (justifiably) what is actually the case.
Honestly, I kind of hope there's something more to it than K/E because that's astoundingly lazy and inadequate, even if all evidence points to it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916125#Comment_3916125
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/61BWC8KEUGEQ/image.png
I'm not concerned about that question, because other games that have MMR aren't concerned with that question.
For example, above is the SF6 MMR distributions, and it doesn't bother to tell us more details, and people really don't complain that there aren't more details to this chart. It's normal for games to release stats like this.
Having said that, it would be super cool if DBD released a chart like this.
I think one of the reasons players would question MMR less in a game like SF (or fighting games in general) is because the criteria are more cut and dry. Skill is quantifiable (and actually matters), win conditions are clear, measurables are all very measurable, etc. One doesn't have a lot of reason to question it.
I think the general reason the DBD community is so curious about the details is because it's pretty unclear how anything is quantified, and questionable as to whether what is known is even applied to SBMM with consistency.
I mean they say people above the soft cap comprise 10% of the player base, but it seems evident that the matchmaking doesn't reflect that, as new or lower skill players leak into higher MMR games with regularity. Knowing how many active players comprise the other 90% might help explain why.
In theory it's possible that the 10% of those at or above the cap comprise a much bigger percentage of active players, depending on how/who they count.
It seems reasonable to assume that BHVR is stingy with details because it wouldn't reflect favorably at all.
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No one here has mentioned not seeing Twins, which makes me wonder if they haven't faced them, or just forgot they exist, lol
I have seen the Twins like twice in the last year, and it's been months since I've seen them last.
Saw a Trickster a few days ago for the first time in months, that's a rarity as well. Also been a minute since I've seen a Chucky.
The rest I feel like I see at least once or twice every week or so. Blight is easily the most common, though (Ghoul aside).
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Nothing, aside from making you slightly harder for the killer to see on dark maps. I used to throw them on characters I never use, but at this point I've been playing for so long I have at least like five non-stock outfits even for characters I'd never spend on.
@GentlemanFridge said:
I can tell you that, before he got his model update, a P3 Quentin was one of the scariest players you could encounter.
Now? Eh.
Indeed. Old Quentin was nightmare fuel.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/443574/edit-the-1-800-mmr-range-is-the-top-10
most players (especially survivors) are bad and i feel like the dbd community would throw a fit if they found out how bad they really were
I'm gonna guess the majority of players don't care. Or are even aware of things like SBMM or MMR. I think people who take this game seriously would be more shocked at how many play this game at the most casual level, and just don't really care very much at all. And how these people end up in all of our games.
I think that's an internal and fundamental disconnect much of the player base has.
People like we on this message board even discussing this stuff are deep in the minority, I think.
@SoGo said:
It would be interesting to see how many people are in high MMR.
Even better would be to show EVERYONE their MMR, so we can see how many players claiming to be there actually are there.
They're never going to make individual MMR scores public, and that's a good thing. People would immediately start using their scores and the scores of others to be divisive as hell, and it wouldn't actually change anything.
One could say to just show people their own scores privately, but that would turn into a "why won't you show me your score?" sort of elitist thing.
I mean it would be kinda gratifying for some cocky people to find out they aren't what they though they were, but it wouldn't be worth all the crap that would come with it.
And regardless, BHVR has reportedly gone to some lengths to prevent people from seeing their MMR scores (Choy made videos about this), so it seems unlikely in the extreme that they're just going to start handing them out.
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A week ago I would have agreed, but the Ghoul encounter rate has dropped way off for me
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914989#Comment_3914989
Come on, everyone knows that Killers dont slug because of Hook Deadzones.
Especially now that many of the maps are smaller and the hooks respawn. The spacings can be odd, but there is almost never a scenario where you need to leave someone on the ground. Coordinated sabo squads are pretty much it.
Hook dead zones were a much bigger problem before the changes; now it's almost a non-issue.
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@cesspoolechochamber said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3914649#Comment_3914649
Why do people have to play the way you want them to? If I don't want to finish a match I'm not having fun because of the way another player is playing, why should anyone be forced to keep playing to make sure others are having fun? How many times has the saying "it's not my job to make sure you are having fun in the game" been uttered by players on this forum who are responding to complaints of play style. Hundreds if not thousands. I'll say this again telling people to stay in the match by shamming or penalizing them isn't going to fix the issue.
If you don't want to play, don't. I mean if survivor is so miserable for people that they know they'll want to go next multiple times, what are they even doing queuing up? Are they masochists?
It's just mind boggling how many people cry and wail and whinge about how playing surv is worse than being waterboarded, but yet they still queue up in survivor, just to go next and perpetuate the cycle of dumbassery. The solution here seems pretty straight forward: don't play at all.
And I play both sides extensively, and in my experience, the vast majority of people bail in the first minute or two, and without clear cause.
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If by "one small step" you mean like 85-90% of the way there, you're right. I don't expect much more is coming, and I don't think it should be. The vault speed is pretty much it.
And the Kaneki can't down you with his dash, which is what differentiates him from Blight/Wesker.
There will almost certainly be more refinement, but I'd be shocked if they nerf him out of S-tier.