Ryuhi
Ryuhi
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- Ryuhi
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so then every killer will be playing that exact set of 4 perks based on your idea to split them up, giving even LESS diversity. not to mention needing to grind even more of the bloodweb to get all of the perks required to.... grind the blood web? Again, you'll likely be seeing less of it due to the aura nerf in the coming patch.
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Why would that be a better idea? the aura reading off BBQ&C is getting nerfed next patch anyway, does it really bother you that killers can get more BP by not tunneling and camping?
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@Peanits said:
It's like that because you are not going to get away anyway. Even if you did theoretically get the 4% or you deliveranced off the hook, the killer could just as easily stand right there and down you again. There is no way to get endurance by unhooking yourself so you're basically as good as dead.The way it currently it just speeds up the process. You don't have to wait for the survivor to attempt an escape, get immediately downed and then rehooked. It just ends the game so everyone can move on to the next one.
A change of approach that may or may not be a hot take: If a survivor is the last one and pulls off a self unhook, they get borrowed time and or adrenaline following the unhook? Maybe the kobe gets both, and deliverance only gets the borrowed time? Would make it a more impactful and less hopeless scenario, while still being fair to the "unbroken" last survivors.
If nothing that extreme, then at least some kind of bloodpoint bonus, similar to how killers get one for ragequitting survivors
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@thekiller490490 said:
D3vilz said:Anyone else think that the hitbox while pallet vaulting and window vaulting is too big and too OP?
I’m ALWAYS getting hit while vaulting and it’s pretty annoying at This point.
Maybe shrink the hitbox while vaulting a bit?Can we killers also get the stun hitbox narrowed down a bit. Because the it is NOT the size of the pallet.
with any luck, the way pallet toss vaccuming, blocking, hitboxes, etc will all get retooled when the change occurs. It feels like as of now survivors pretty much have to throw it before the killer is even under the pallet, and as killer you need to stop a good few feet early to not get phantom-smacked by it. I know the killer's collision boxes are bigger than the survivors but it feels pretty silly sometimes
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There are definitely reasons for the two perks to be different from each other, and its going to be the biggest feedback you're going to get. While I do not think they are in the right spot now, it is definitely something I agree with. The long and short of it is that the killer is both (supposed to be) a more powerful role, and also because they are outnumbered.
The possibility of survivors having any level of coordination means that the killer's 4 perks is not equal to any one survivor's 4 perks. People who say the survivor perks are worth 16 perks total are delusional, but its very clear that the killer's 4 perks need to be stronger than just a single survivor's 4 perks. This is why a lot of the survivor perks are intended to be more subtle and/or situational while many killer perks effect entire games and playstyles. BBQ&C does have ways to counterplay it, and it even encourages killers to avoid toxic playstyles, so its current form is in everyone's best interests.
That said, WGLF is pretty weak in exactly how it works right now. It used to give a LOT more BP, but was nerfed, with good reason. Its current gains are exactly where they should be, and its lack of utility is fitting for the aforementioned asymmetrical nature of the game. It would actually be exactly in the right spot if it actually worked as intended, with protection procs going off consistently. If there were any improvements to be made to the perk, it should be in either fixing that, or giving alternative boldness/altruism methods of granting stacks.
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Well, you kinda can. I've seen hyperlooping survivors just as often as I've seen stupidly altruistic ones. The biggest issue is that the latter completely cripples the former, which is where a lot of the frustration comes from. There's no worse feeling when you had a 4 minute chase finally end, you get hooked, and zero gens got done but you have all 3 claudettes squatting in a circle around the hook waiting to fight over who gets the unhook points.
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all they need to do is make it so that if a killer is standing directly overtop of an open hatch (maybe 2m radius) They get a buff that removes the weapon wipe/flick/etc cooldown. that way standoffs wont be a thing, but the hatch will stay open in case the survivor can juke the killer enough to come full circle back to it with a lead.
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I dont understand what point you're trying to make... because people are admittedly toxic in other games, that makes it ok for you to be toxic here? Why would you want to bring bad sportsmanship to the lowest common denominator?
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@thesuicidefox said:
And then afterwards I can't say GG and be sincere? You would never survive in competitive gaming dude.
I've been into a variety of fighting games for decades, and I can assure you that people do not act this way in person. Funny enough, stuff like teabagging in fighting games and taunt spamming only happens in online matches. Wonder why? That said, I am also no stranger to good tactics being frustrating, which is exactly why I excluded it (again, distraction vs provocation.) The lengths you're going to to insult me isnt really making a good case for you not being a toxic player, btw.
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trying to get your opponent flustered is literally BMing. What part of that don't you understand? Distraction is good, provocation is not. You don't just wash the latter away with two letters.
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Alert is great if the killer breaks pallets/kicks gens. Its awful if they don't. Like most detection perks, its kinda hit or miss. Fair warning: it does literally nothing against freddy unless you're already asleep.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Killers make up most of this ######### in their heads and get salty about essentially nothing.@thesuicidefox said:
Good assumptions so far. 👍 -
I'm actually a survivor main, so I know when its good strategy and BMing. Ironically, the main reason I barely play killer is because of the attitudes of your average survivor, it makes the game unbearable, and is a very large part of why a lot of killers are so vocal about their grievances on this board. Your last sentence heavily implies you haven't gotten stuck in games as killer with survivors BMing you, so why do you feel the need to weigh in?
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Time to use your logic against you: "If you think things like FL, teabag, gen tap in your face, aren't toxic, chances are you are the toxic one." there's a pretty big difference between distraction and provocation. The reason killers especially find it annoying is because they are stuck in that game until the last person either dies or leaves. When a killer does something bm to a survivor, its a lot easier to just die and move on to the next one. Killers don't get that luxury, so of course they're going to get more annoyed by repeated signs of disrespect.
At the end of the day, the argument wouldnt even exist if people didn't act like douches to each other ingame, but here we are.
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"Just don't get seen bro"
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I feel theres a pretty big difference between telling someone GG, and trying your hardest to disrespect them in game and then saying GG at the end. Congratulating others on good performance is a core aspect of sportsmanship, but using it as a way to try to absolve poor behavior is completely different. Unfortunately I see it far worse from survivors than I do killers, but killers can be just as bad at times. I'd much rather have an actual good game and lose, vs a crappy game and get an insincere gg at the end.
TBH this is likely a very big source for why so many X mains hate Y players. It's a constant cycle of harassment.
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In all fairness, If youre the last survivor vs the hillbilly or nurse, you're in no worse of a situation. Myers, the Leatherface, and even poor little Freddy to a degree (you're not going to be able to fail skill checks in a chase.) As it stands, I don't expect to see the Legion getting many games down to the last survivor to begin with, sadly.
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Movement makes you much easier to see. You'd be amazed how often survivors get missed by just staying still in certain places, especially when the killer is looking around a lot. Thats not to say these pauses are always successful, but its a very effective way to avoid being seen at times (especially if the red stain is moving rapidly, aka the killer is checking multiple directions quickly.) Just think of it like hiding from a T-Rex
Your comments contradict a bit though... Why mention both hiding next to a running gen, and your $300 headset? Clearly the two would contradict in that scenario, since the generator is loud as balls. Its almost like strategies are situational and players need to be adaptive. 8-)
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the only problem with the way it procs protection stacks is, as far as i can tell, it only actually procs if the attack would have hit them if it was not forced out of its active state by hitting you first. In other words, if the attack was able to stay active after hitting a survivor, it would be hitting you both in one swing.
In other words, the only way I've been able to get it to consistently go off with protection is by being wedged tightly in a survivor/killer sandwich. Things like running into the killer and taking a bodyblock hit, blocking a thrown hatchet, and so on don't actually grant a stack (even though the game gives you protection BPs)
As it stands now, unhooks are the most consistent way to gain stacks, especially if you run borrowed time. You're basically guaranteeing either that survivor will get to run away with the speed burst and soon-to-be-buffed deep wound, or you get a free second stack. The only risk is either killers with a one shot down, or ones that are running a one shot perk like Make your Choice.
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@Wolf74 said:
This goes both way, killer get a lot of swings that don't connect, despite they seriously looked like they should.
So that is NOT a survivor issue.
Lag/latency is bad on both sides.Watch the following video. Skip to about 42 mins in and you can see what the player's hitboxes actually look like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56aSD99gmTIThat might explain some stuff to you.
As the killer is the host, latency will ALWAYS be worse for survivors. I have seen lag misses happen first hand as killer, but I have seen far more instances of getting hit around corners by hatchets, chainsawed through windows, and so on as survivor. The host always has less rollback, even if there is some.
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@Dreamnomad said:
You have 0 terror radius and a predator cloaking field. If that isn't a stealth killer then I don't know what is.Spirit with prayer beads outstealths him easily, and its not even an iridescent addon.
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@BeanieEnthusiast said:
Just bait their exhaustion perks easy done.that would be all well and good except you need to slowly uncloak after baiting those out and allowing them to position in a jungle gym or pallette that guarantees extending a chase duration.
TBH the only way i have success at high ranks is by baiting that exact mentality and one slug ignoring people and forcing them to waste time. its a really bad strategy to have tho because they catch on quickly.
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you can be really good with a bad character and be able to give advice on how they are lacklustre vs the rest of the cast. Just look at fighting games.
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being 100% invisible but still having the uncloak time and slowdown during it (before the speed burst) is still plenty balanced. he gets surprise slugs off of it, but thats about it. he cant use it in chases unless the survivors are stupid, but he wastes tons of times trying to use it in chases. the silent bell + ghost addon helps if you can stay out of LoS while you chase, but thats a huge pentalty while requiring an iridescent addon.
Now there are some addons that help with chases, but only WHILE hes cloaked. which means no attacking, no grabs, no bloodlust, no nothing. Even simple QoL changes like letting him get bloodlust while interrupting a chase with cloak, decreasing the slow during uncloaking, decreasing decloak time inherently, hes just short of the mark on all sixes.
I guess my biggest beef is that the spirit gets pretty much free gen grabs with a single rare addon in rank 1 games while the killer who is literally built around stealth has a predator telltale shimmer seems kinda messed up.
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why not just redeem it? there is zero reason not to just take the blood points, and it frees up the spot for more dailies in case you're unable to play for a few days.
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The visibility of the outline became an issue when killers like the spirit got the ability to completely remove their negative detection penalty (the whooshing noise) through addons. Bing Bong Boi has silent bell which is nice, but it doesnt negate his slowed movement speed and duration to uncloak, making him still suffer extensively in that regard comparatively. If you want to put him on even footing, he needs either better mitigation of these penalties, or addons that better remove it. That said, I love the silent bell + ghost addon meme combo, but It takes two addons to do what other killers can essentially get (better) in a single addon... and good lord does the wraith need addons at higher rank play.
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the irony is how much some people in this topic are tunneling a few specific words and not reading actual posts. This discussion is solely based around when killers tunnel to the point of it being a bad strategy, I.E. ignoring gens popping left and right and refusing to switch targets. There is a very big difference between "not dropping a chase" or " patrolling a perimeter" vs being magnetically drawn to a single player and being blind to everything else in the game. The reason the points argument was brought up is because its the devs' way to try to incentivize players to actually play the game (and it gets the added bonus of being one of the best detection perks in the game to boot.) Also, more bloodpoints lets you buy more addons, which is universally helpful regardless of your objective when playing.
It's extra damning at higher ranks, when that one person you're tunneling might be very good at loops, and you basically manage to do literally nothing as killer the entire game because of it. Just like all forms of adapting gameplay, you have to learn when its changing from good strategy to bad strategy, and adjust accordingly. In all likelihood, one of the survivors playing m1 simulator is worse at loops, and will give shorter chases and more slugs/downs/hooks.
In an attempt to avoid further miscommunication, I will reiterate: Downing a survivor shortly after an unsafe hook, chasing after someone you just slugged, not giving up a chase after a loop or two, running bloodhound, none of those are tunneling. They are good strategy, especially when in the vein of punishing mistakes. If a survivor can say in post game chat "I didn't even know who the killer was most of the game," however, then you should probably re-evaluate your priorities in chasing and tracking survivors.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Ryuhi said:
Before we start, no, I'm not talking about OH YOU HIT ME MORE THAN ONCE IN A ROW THATS TUNNELLING or other juvenile bullshit. I'm talking about taking a single player and expressly forbidding them from being able to do anything in the game outside of a chase and eventual hook. I feel like this is most often brought on by survivors who play like #########, in SWFs teabagging, flashlighting, and spewing every ounce of disrespect they can muster. fine. But what about when its that player who literally spawns right next to you, and does nothing to show an ounce of disrespect? Do they not deserve a chance to play the game?
...TL;DR Be the change in the community you want to see. survivors who act like shitheels deserve everything coming to them, but fishing for salty survivor tears out of solo queue survivors is the exact reason why so many of them become game breakingly cancerous SWFs. All we have to do is not play like asshats and be excellent to one another. It will be impossible to correctly balance the game until this human condition is treated.
First off: In the past the term "tunneling" was used to describe a bad style of play, where some killer just entered tunnelvision and ignored everything around them, including survivors doing gens right beside them.
They did not protect the gens or applied pressure on the map, they just chased one target no matter what happend around them.
That was "bad play".
Now survivor call literally ANYTHING "tunneling", even if it is not a "bad play", but instead it is smart en efficient.
It has become a combatterm to apply social peer pressure on player to make them not play like that.
Chasing someone till he is down and on a hook is called "tunneling".
Hooking the same guy twice in a row is called tunneling.
Avoiding bait or people that want to tank a hit is called tunneling.The problem in the debate about "tunneling" is that people talk about 2 separate things and call it the same.
1 is a bad style of play, that hurts the killer.
2 is a smart and efficient way to play for killer.The problem is that survivor player do not acknowledge that it is a valid tactic and call it all "bad" playstyle.
And second: "tunneling" has little to do with "punishing" anyone, since it is smart to remove one player from the game ASAP, no matter how he played before.
My suggestion would be to talk about "tunnelvision" if it is the kind of play that actually hurts the killer and "tunneling" only if it really is an intended focusing on one player to eliminate him asap.
Anything else is just "chasing".
But I don't expect this words to get along with the community.I was pretty much exclusively talking about number 1, while conceding that number 2 IS a valid tactic, and smart. The disconnect between the two often comes from, as you mentioned, people being exceedingly willing to not distinguish between the two and cry victim. Unfortunately that argument and defensiveness is what causes number 1 to exist and continue t fester within the community.
The specific game I was referencing with my initial post involved other players (who were randoms and not even swf) straight up running into attacks to try to get the killer to do anything else (half the time already wounded even) and being promptly ignored. It was just a 3 minute chase, followed by a 5 minute chase, then no rescue because the players saw him face camp and just smartly worked on gens. That is the kind of actual tunneling that is bad for killer and survivor alike, and just devolves the game in general.
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You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.
I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.
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I mean you're not wrong
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SWF >>>>>>>>>> Killer >>> Solo Survivor.
argument over.