Nirgendwohin
Nirgendwohin
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does anyone have an idea how to prove and report speed cheats like permanently mft or bloodlust? I have a lot of games where I'm like "how did you get catch up so quickly?" or with fellow survivors "how did you get out of the situation?"
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534899#Comment_3534899
Tail has a very clear visual cue when Xeno pulls it up of his animation starting (which looks janky as hell, his model looks like it resets). At that time, you have 200 ms to dodge sideways. What math do you want exactly? The tail has a clear visual cue (and audio cue that pops at the same time though slightly later), and the charge time is 0.2s. That's all the math you need. The tail isn't meant to be easy to dodge BY DESIGN because it's already difficult to hit.
you play an online game where the killer has the hit authority and not a offline game on your computer.
initial conditions:
- wind up time of the tail attack: 200ms
- survivor is injured
- average killer ping: 50ms
- average survivor ping: 50ms
- human reation time to visual input: 150ms for a gamer (250ms is the average for a human)
- I'm asuming here you can identify the animation of the tail attack and start your reaction within the first 18 frames on a 120 fps system and press a button (1000ms / 120 * 18 = 150ms)
- i'm not sure if the first 18 frames are enough information to differentiate between normal movement and the tail attack because its not like a red flash or something. but lets go with 18 frames
the math:
- 200ms: killer starts the tail attack on his computer
- 200ms - 25ms = 175ms: server gets the information and send the info to the survivor
- 175ms - 25ms = 150ms: survivor gets the information from the server and start displaying the information
- 150ms - 150ms = 0ms:
- survivor press a random button and start moving.
- the taill attack executes on the killer pc and the survivor is now put into dying state.
- 0ms - 25ms = -25ms:
- the server get the information from the killer that the survivor was hit and got put into dying state
- the server get the information from the survivor that the survivor started movement
- -25ms - 25ms = -50ms:
- the killer gets the information the survivor wants to started movment and ignores it
- the survivor gets the information the killer hit him and displays the dying state animation
now please explain to me how the survivor should react to the tail attack when by the time you press a button you already have put into dying state. in reality it takes even more time for the survivor to react. I left out a lot of things like input lag for the sake of simplicity: https://www.retrogamedeconstructionzone.com/2020/05/reaction-time-and-game-design.html
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534680#Comment_3534680
Yes. Ran into the pallet and back. Anything beside doubling back 3 feet from the pallet. If I'm that Xeno there, I'm waiting until I see you step inside the pallet before I M2. You didn't:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y6RN2R18RPYD/image.png
You CAN actually react to the whip, you just have to react very fast. But that's beside the point entirely. My point is that you're trying to argue that you should have been able to do something there; I'm arguing that you already misplayed, unless the Xeno misplayed as well. It doesn't matter if those other killers have a sound cue, because no matter what, you were gonna get hit there. All of them had a way to zone you away from the pallet and either secure the M2 hit or bodyblock the pallet and M1. What you're doing is akin to being in M1 range near an M1 killer, with a pallet 2 feet in front of you, and whining about how you had nothing you could do to make the pallet safely. If Xeno is that close to you already, you're already in a bad position.
Would you please do the math how to react to the tail? I did it (you can find it in multiple threads) and came to the conclusion that by the time the surviror press the button to react he already got hit 30ms ago.
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Making it thru 20 matches is impressive. Guess not many people have the will to do that, that's why they added the XP bonus for consecutive played games.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534132#Comment_3534132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chw_cbqTC7c
Not mine but certainly entertaining.
interessting video. are these average killer players?
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@Smoe guess what, that's why i'm asking.
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@Smoe I don't see that anything has improved. if anything, it's gotten worse.
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534474#Comment_3534474
There can be a penalty for missing without feeling like you're DSing yourself every time to want to try an interesting shot. There's such a thing as something being too punishing which it very much was on the PTB and everyone agreed on that.
none of the killers had practice. no wonder that many m2 went wrong.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534472#Comment_3534472
I'm afraid I do not know what an Epic launcher even is. Prolly not something on my Xbox. Appreciate the input though. 😀
The Epic Games Store is a video game digital distribution service and storefront for PC operated by Epic Games. The Epic Games launcher application allow players to purchase games, install and keep their games up to date.
Basically the direct competition to Steam on PC.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533099#Comment_3533099
I guess I don't do much searching of any players. Don't really know how, or what to do with those on Anonymous Mode either.
In the epic launcher you can find people by this:
There is no way how to tell what platform anonymous people playing on.
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That "just place some turrers in location X" is nice and works somewhat okay until you run out of turrets.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533817#Comment_3533817
So this is a textbook example of people not understanding how big the survivor's hitbox actually is.
Your character model is overlayed with a hit box that is a little bit bigger than the size of the actual character. It's shaped like a capsule as well and it doesn't follow you perfectly. Instead it kind of lags behind you a bit during things like vaults.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VICEFKOQLB29/oip.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3ZUTQT3WKV64/5oylgs12onq31.jpg
Good point, maybe they could show us an animation how the hit box while vaulting looks like. Also how the m1 hitbox looks like at windows.
Survivors complain they get hit after vaults and killers complain there are I-frame's with vaults.
A small animation could clear these things up.
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https://youtu.be/unDS1mbtYZo
(killer was from denmark, usually they have pings below 80. i'm from germany with a 40 ping)
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533691#Comment_3533691
"y-y-you just got lucky" Survivor mains when you try to explain to them that countering a killer is possible
at 25 sec into your video you would be dead if the killer hadn't aimed way way way too high or something funky was going on. crouching after a vault is not a reliably counter like on nemesis since the tail hitbox works completly different. so yes, so you got lucky.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390285/xenomorph
Well, I'm pretty good at the game and try to figure out a killer's counterplay instead of whining about them being too strong on the forums, so I've escaped quite often. As solo Q even. Actually made one DC earlier today. https://streamable.com/erv2oa
your counterplay looks like thoughts and prayers, but it worked in this case
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a big portion of my upcoming desire to quit this game also comes from the players behind xenomorph.
the amount of tunneling, facecamping and slugging is astonishingly high when someone plays the xeno.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390199/disable-crossplay-with-epic
Exactly how do you know who's on Epic or not?
I'm on Xbox, so in most matches pretty much everyone appears as a CrossPlay globe to me. I'm assuming you're on Steam, so wouldn't Epic players have that globe as well for you?
simply, you search the username on epic. these bots all have the same name followed by a number.
so far i could confirm about 5000 of these bot names.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533048#Comment_3533048
"Fast vaulting a window is now the same speed as medium vautling".
Yep. Since the Update I said to my SWF-Mate that there is 0 point in doing fast vaults, because there is no difference between those and medium vaults. Sad to see that I was really correct here...
yep you get 0 distance from a fast vault.
https://youtu.be/myNeOr0uMa0(I know that if I had kept running, I wouldn't have gotten a hit. But that's not what the example is about)
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@CLHL said:
Queue times went so bad they needed to force this for new players to go against prestige 100 teams. Because that's the real problem, lobby dodge is a thing because matchmaking is really bad. They hide who is in a SWF because only tryhards would want to play them.
I don't noticed a drop in quality of my teammates. Also the prestige levels after the game looked like the normal mix.
You can still access the steam profiles and look for hours or rep. But that's up to the person himself if he likes to show his hours and allow comments
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to get notified when the xeno is coming out of his tunnels
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@Xendritch said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531057#Comment_3531057
"Doing the thing that counters Xeno has nothing to do with Xeno"
Lol
Also if the other 3 survivors are sticking to gens then it doesn't really matter if pallets are used quickly the only reason people greed pallets so much is because most survivors are potatoes that would rather loot every chest in the map and cleanse every totem before touching a gen and then wonder why they don't escape when they make games much longer then they have to be.
a generic tactic is as the name states a generic tactic. thats like tunneling for killers. it works on almost every killer but has nothing to do with the killer power.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531018#Comment_3531018
Please form you own opinion. Thanks.
first of all, the thread starter asked for youtube.
second here you go:
there is no reaction time on the tail attack for the survivors
initial values:
- wind up time for the tail: 200ms
- average ping survivor: 50ms
- average ping killer: 50ms
- extreme fast reaction time from visual input to output to the finger: 180ms
The Math:
- 200ms: Killer starts his tail attack on his computer
- 200ms -25ms = 175ms: Server gets the Information
- 175ms -25ms = 150ms: Survivor computer gets the Information
- 150ms - 180ms = -30ms : Survivor processes the visual information and tries to reacts but already got hit 30ms before his finger can press a button.
besides that, when he misses there is no loss of distance.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
I didn't have problem juking or being juked/missed the tail attack on both sides.
The cooldown is definetly noticible as if you miss on pallet you have to wait a bit before you can even start any action other than running.
not losinging distance after a missed hit is a huge advantage of his current power.
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is it related to dead people?
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@Xendritch said:
Naymeti has few good videos on running Xeno a lot of W and predropping very similar counterplay to Oni.
that works only on some maps and if the rng is right. also that counterplay has nothing to do with xeno, its just a different playstyle.
and most important the second or third person who got chased has no more resources to work with because of huge dead zones.
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My escape rate declined but i cant blame my teammates for that. i noticed there is hardly any lobby dodging anymore.
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@jarjargist21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530953#Comment_3530953
With time you'll learn how to counter the killer. The killer just released a few days ago
i hear that argument a lot and its simply worng. there is no counter to the tail attack since there is no reaction time to the tail attack. there is only some predictions a suvivivor can make but that is more or less just gamble and has no skill level.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The tail attack is fine. The flame turrets aren't weak, there's just a massive difference between survivor teams who use them effectively and survivor teams who barely put them down. Just holding W to the nearest turret will buy you time.
At tiles, drop the pallet. Drop it earlier. Don't wait until you're going to be animation locked in front of the killer to drop it. Don't try to loop something until you're in a lose-lose. And this should go without saying, but don't animation lock yourself in a vault right in front of the killer.
you mean they should buff soloQ?
edit:
"hold W" ... that means there is nothing else a survivor can do.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The tail attack is fine. The flame turrets aren't weak, there's just a massive difference between survivor teams who use them effectively and survivor teams who barely put them down. Just holding W to the nearest turret will buy you time.
At tiles, drop the pallet. Drop it earlier. Don't wait until you're going to be animation locked in front of the killer to drop it. Don't try to loop something until you're in a lose-lose. And this should go without saying, but don't animation lock yourself in a vault right in front of the killer.
You can't learn to play against the tail attack. Since on the survivor side the tail attack has no mechanical skill to counter play. All you can do is to predict when the killer might be using his tail attack. But since you play against a human, or better say multiple humans, there is no strategy you can come up because every match will be different.
The tail attack itself is not overpowered and for sure needs skill on the killer side but when a killer has mastered its use. There is not much a survivor can do. It's like running a nurse, you rely on killer mistakes. That's not healthy at all for the game and that's why survivors complain. Because they feel like they can't achieve a won chase by themselves.
The turrets. Yes they can come into play and I think they are currently balanced how fast they kick the killer out of power. But they can't be something you have to use in a chase to have a chance since they have a setup time. Therefore you have to plan beforehand and everyone on the survivor team has to understand your plan. That's nothing you can achieve in soloQ. Swf on the other hand can even setup new turrets mid chase.
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@Ni7rogen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529884#Comment_3529884
I feel like blaming wonky animation for this, because he hit you at the first moment he swung the mace, I really wish we had killer's PoV.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529920#Comment_3529920
Huntress Hatchess are less to screw because their hitbox are big and they remain more during the animation of the vault, this is just a theory I have, because I missed shreds, slinger shots, but never punishments, whips or hatchets, and my guess is because their hitbox is more constant compared to a shot that is almost immadiate and a shred that is not as fast as a slinger shot but once demo hits a wall the whole hitbox stops, and all my hits were against people with ~40ms
That's a good point. The blood splash is a little late.
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Would be nice to get a notification about the change. Sorry to all the lobbies I dodged because I thought I got matched with newbies.. Like 5 times in a row
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529884#Comment_3529884
I'm sorry, but you gotta bring better fake hits than that. That was basic latency, and should normally be a hit. I'm worried about being halfway to the ground from the 2nd story and getting up somehow. Heck, Otz and other content creators have better(more extreme Bullschenanigans) lag hits in their weekly compilations.
great, post them!
I deliberately chose a borderline example to stimulate a discussion. Also, I don't care what it looks like on the killer's screen as long as it looks wrong on my screen.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530018#Comment_3530018
the point is... everyone knows latency is a #########. so why are you posting it?
nothing changes if you don't give things a voice
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Another thread with this phenomenon:
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529884#Comment_3529884
you know people can post the reverse too right?
yes please! that would be great! killer and survivor bring together all the knowledge to proof how messy the hits are on both sides.
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I changed the screenshot to the last game i played
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there is no reaction time on the tail for the survivors
initial values:
- wind up time for the tail: 200ms
- average ping survivor: 50ms
- average ping killer: 50ms
- extreme fast reaction time from visual input to output to the finger: 180ms
The Math:
- 200ms: Killer starts his tail attack on his computer
- 200ms -25ms = 175ms: Server gets the Information
- 175ms -25ms = 150ms: Survivor computer gets the Information
- 150ms - 180ms = -30ms : Survivor processes the visual information and tries to reacts but already got hit 30ms before his finger can press a button.
edit: typo
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On thing about the "just dodge the tail". you can't do that based on input, you only can gamble.
the tail has a wind up time of 200ms. if both players have an average ping of 50 ms, that means 50ms go by until the survivor can see the tail wind up. if the survivor has the world fastest reaction time he lose another 180ms before his finger can press a button. so you got hit 30 ms before you can react to any audio or visual clues. and dont forget the additional 100ms that takes to show the survivors action on the killers screen, which has priority for hits. I don't even want to get started on the size of the hitbox and how many meters you move in ms and how the xeno can drag the lingering hitbox.
in summary: it is not possible to dodge the tail attack just by reacting. you can only gamble and if the killer is somewhat competent, then he aims for the middle of your hitbox and always hits because of ping.
edit: corrected the ping math
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URBAN EVASION is the new meta now
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@Livion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529292#Comment_3529292
Faking windows works really well and as said: give it a few days
the xeno just has to wait until the survivor is locked in animation. the vault animation takes 500ms. the wind up for the tail takes 200ms. gives the killer a 300ms timeframe to hit the survivor while he is locked in animation.
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@Livion said:
So I see a lot of people complaining about xeno because of the tail attack and some of them practically demanding a nerf, please give it a few days just a few days so people can at least try to learn counterplay instead of just nerfing the killer so hard that makes it basically "dead" on release
how does your counterplay look like?
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529244#Comment_3529244
The changed fast vaults so that survivors would get more distance. However, this also caused a number of seperate issues like survivors getting i-frames during the animation, vaults also being faster (more distance in the same amount of time) and for some reason male survivors would get more distance than female survivors.
Now they reverted these changes (presumable to fix these issues and then imlement it again) but male survivors still vault further than female survivors.
On the topic: It feels good being able to hit survivors at vaults again. I cannot press this enough but if you get hit after the animation, then that is a latency issue. You can stand still after a fast vault and the killer should not be able to hit you.
so you say we need a ping limit below the current 2000ms?
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the charge up time is 200ms. if you have a killer with red ping, you get hit 100ms before you even see the charge up of his power.
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Yes please. I read this post while i wait for bleedout and the killer is humping me.
