MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751294#Comment_3751294
You are actually wrong here on bp gain you probably lose lot of potential bp from prolonging the match that long always. The shorter the match the more efficient you are on bp gain. Let's just say match last 10 minutes when you don't slug you earn 200 000 bp now when you slug you earn 210 000 bp but match last 15 minutes which earns you more bp in long run?
Actually 3-4 minute match is best I had that kind of match where I had earned 100 000K+ but I decided give survivors second chance so purely from bp gain shortest match is the best and the match took then to end 10 minutes and I only got another 100 000K+. I would been smarter to end it there but im not fan of that short matches.
So that makes slugging in 2vs1 not smart especially when most of the time you get the 4K anyway. But when it comes to adepts, challenges and pips on higher grades then it's smart play because you need it and longer match is not problem. 15 minutes +2 pip is better than 2 × 10 minutes match for +1 pip. But otherwise you just waste your own and everyones time.
Hatch is survivor only comeback mechanic and it's fine if we remove hatch we need to rebalance the entire game. Killers already have many ways to make comeback survivors get only weaker longer the match last and less survivors there are left.
You're not wrong but I was talking about maximizing BP for that match in particular which is how most people see it afaik. If you're just trying to get BP in general yes it's better to move on to the next match asap, but if you want to get most out of that single match a 4k is more than a 3k.
As for rebalancing the game that might be necessary and I'd be all for it if that means removing hatch. We have EGC already, we could use that instead of hatch to make sure the games end without undermining the match and killers could just get the 3rd kill and the EGC would start. No more slugging necessary.
Survivors don't need a comeback mechanic as far as I'm concerned. They start out strong and if they waste it that's on them. They already start ahead, they don't need something to make sure they are always ahead in some way. Survivors strong early and killers strong late is fine, as opposed to survivor stronger early and survivors getting boosted later to still be strong. Leaving no space for the killer to be strong.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751024#Comment_3751024
It really doesn't.
The killer in this situation isn't trying to win, they're trying to make you lose. They already secured the 3K, they already won.
The only one this sucks for is the survivor.
While that's technically true, the killer is trying to win as much as possible and get as much BP as possible and by all accounts they should be getting a 4K but hatch can rob away a kill. It's similar survivors going back to save someone at endgame even though they have 3 out guaranteed or the last survivor hiding even though they already lost.
The majority of killers would much rather hook someone, then find the last. But since hatch is an unnecessary risk to lose a kill you otherwise would get, they don't. Instead they spend 4 minuets slugging to give themselves as much time possible to find the last survivor. Why would you not? Objectively speaking, there's no reason not to. If you find the survivor great, if you don't well you just end up in the same position as if you hooked the 3rd survivor anyway. It only beneficial to slug in this scenario. You'd be stupid not to if you want to win as much as possible or get as much BP as possible. Which are both things players should be expected to be doing.
For survivor you have to wait 4 minuets on the floor and wait 4 minuets as the one hiding for hatch. They would much rather not do that. But objectively the best situation is to hide and try hatch for similar reasons.
Both sides are in a situation where objectively the best thing to do is waste 4 extra minuets waiting around for an RNG mechanic to either rob a kill or gift an undeserved escape. The survivor on the floor is even worse in this position as they just have to wait 4 minuets just to die anyway. That sucks for both sides as clearly the survivors aren't happy and killers aren't happy with the situation either.
Both sides could just say "whatever" and give up the last kill/escape and move on but they (generally) don't nor should they be expected to. The killer slugs and the survivor hides. So we just end up with mutually ensured boredom.
All this happens why? Because of the hatch. If you personally think that's fine then that's your opinion, but the situation occurs because of the hatch.
As @Neaxolotl said, its a "win most" and "most victorious" situation.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3751035#Comment_3751035
The classic dbd answer („skill issue“), that goes also back to whoever says it. I get quite good survivors and killers as opponents, sadly we don‘t have a ranked system to just show a picture or something.
You all musst always only get 0ks, because survivors are that undefeatable, but still the stats say otherwise. Killer is not difficult and a lot easier than survivor.
On garden of joy they nerfed basically everything except of main, shack and car park. The maze tiles most times don‘t even have a window now.
The classic defense of "you disagree so you must be a bad x main".
First off I never said survivors are unbeatable or even unbalanced. All I said was they struggle at lower level more than mid. They are disproportionately weaker there compared to other skill levels. This is a well known fact for people who have been around for a while, and I've been around for 6+ years.
Second off everyone thinks they get "high level opponents". Fact of the matter is even the bad players think they're good and if you're getting other opponents at your level then to you they will seem like high level opponents to you when in reality the both of you are just low-mid.
Third off I play both sides, not just one.
Fourth off no I don't "only get 0ks" when I play killer. Furthermore on that point I play more for hooks than kills and get 6-8+ pretty regularly. Maybe don't make baseless accusations?
Fifth off I just had a match on GoJ (as survivor) and had more than enough to work with to loop for 3.5 gens; and I got hit early for a dumb mistake on my end so that was while injured. Yes both the tiles next to main had windows in them so I could literally jump out a window from main and jump through another right next to it on both sides + porch pallet. If that's a weak map for you and you're somehow struggling on it then I would recommend you practice it more.
Honestly felt bad for that Vecna.
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Event or not players still want to win.
I'm playing for hooks but it's not because of the event thats how I always play. I also expect others to play how they always play, which is usually sweaty.
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As others have said, you think Gideon and Badham are "fair". So basically your version of "fair" is "very survivor favored".
Also didn't they make the main building even stronger on Garden in the rework? Iirc that was widely considered a failed rework because the problem they wanted to fix they made worse instead.
But you've only been playing for a year. No offense but imo this just reflects that as this sounds like the words of someone whose not experienced/skilled and doesn't understand the game well enough yet. Which tend to lean more on the survivor side since at lower levels of play survivors struggle more than at mid levels.
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You're basically complaining that the killer tried to win. Which is the point of a game and this one is no exception.
Besides that, this is a hatch problem.
Survivors hide indefinitely until the other dies for hatch.
Killer slugs indefinitely until the other is found or the first bleeds out because of hatch.
It sucks on both sides.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746426#Comment_3746426
This killer main math that been debunked multiple times. I'm not going to bother doing it again. Pretending that a 2k is a "loss" for the killer but a win for survivors is flawed. 50% chance of living or dying is fair. Anything else is not.
It's not "killer main math" it's just math and reasoning. What is a 2K? A draw. Is that a win for win rate? no. What is? A 3K. So if 2K is the most you can get while not winning and 3K is the minimum to win, you need something in the middle to win half the time. If 50% is a 2K and 75% is a 3K what's in the middle? 62.5%. It has not been debunked just because you refuse to change your mind.
I didn't say it was a loss, it's just not a win. It's not a win for all 4 survivors either. For the survivors a 2K is 2 wins and 2 losses. For the killer however its a draw.
The game is asymm, the condition for "fair "is different than other games. Its not a simple as "50% kill rate means 50% win rate". Only 2 kills means 2 survivors still won. In the same 2K every game example that would be a 50% survivor win rate but 0% for killer. 3K means 1 survivor still won.
Just because the killer wins, draws, or loses doesn't mean all 4 survivors also won or loss. Again, because the game is asymm.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3746403#Comment_3746403
Is it bias when the devs literally admit they balance the game unfairly for killers? The more killers that get omega-buffed into 60-70% win rates, the more playing survivor, especially solo queue, feels hopeless and depressing. But sure lets punish survivors more!
Kill rate is not win rate.
Example: you get a 2K every game. 50% kill rate, 0% win rate.
Only a 3K+ is a win for the killer. Hence balancing for 50% kill rate is balancing for the killer to lose more often than not. It needs to be nudged up a little to be between 2K and 3K to be a balanced win rate for the killer, which is between 50-75%, specifically around 62.5% . Which is exactly what they're aiming for.
Afaik we have no information on win rates from the devs.
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Pros: best tactic in the game.
Cons: survivors who don't care about your feelings or experience will get upset.
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I heavily dislike Hillbilly and I always have. Never joined the Hillbilly mafia that say he's "so fun to play against". He's 2nd only to Spirit to me for "annoying to face" killers.
That said, I never gave up against him or any killer for that matter. Other players are another story, they give up against him all the time in my experience. But that's what happens when players (survivors mostly) encourage and excuse giving up at the slightest inconvenience instead of pushing people not to do it.
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They are just playing the game. Turning the match into a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 as efficiently as possible is the best way to win.
You're basically asking for them to play poorly on purpose.
We don't expect survivors to do that so we shouldn't expect killers to do that either.
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Well part of the thing is just because a perk is used a ton doesn't mean it is OP 100% of the time.
Don't get me wrong, OP perks are abused a ton, like old MFT. But it's not always the case.
WoO for example isn't the problem, the maps are. Sure you could nerf it and you would effect the people who crutch on it. But the actual problem of the map generating 15-20+ pallets that can be chained while being right next to each other leaving no chance for sub top 5 killers to do much will remain. So players who don't need WoO will still be abusing that. If the maps weren't ridiculous WoO wouldn't do much. So the best nerf would be a nerf to maps overall as many (but not all) are just too much.
Pop and Pain res were being used a lot but that's also because they nerfed everything else that was being used before then. If they were fine before and everything else comparable got made weaker they don't suddenly become a problem and too strong just because. Regression is usually needed in some form as otherwise the gens go too fast for most of the killer cast, so unless every single regression perk is basically worthless the best 2-4 will always be massively prevalent. Even if those perks are at an acceptable power level.
It's similar for exhaustion perks. Either all of them are made basically worthless or they will be everywhere. Although that's more because the effect they have will always be useful and not because survivors need them to reasonably have a chance.
Distortion is a case of a perk doing too much imo. Mainly because you basically have it permanently and it can counter up to 4 of the killers aura perks by itself with no effort. Which aren't even really problem perks to begin with outside of the hyper mobile top 4 killers.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742041#Comment_3742041
This literally doesnt help your argument at all. It literally cost under 30k to get a cake on the killer side. And if you dont have the effort to do that while everyone brings cake, dont be mad ifone person leaves.
And yea, ive had very few survivors who brought envelopes or cakes for themselves. But not like i care if im killer and get the most points anyways by default even if i win or lose.
So basically the killer is only allowed to play who they're actively spending BP on for the event and should bring in a cobbler every match or the survivors have a right to leave and waste everyone's offerings and time.
But for the survivors bringing in an offering just for them the killer shouldn't care and it's perfectly fine.
Typical survivor double standards and killer policing.
Also I never said I was "mad", just people are being petty about it. As you're showing.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3741932#Comment_3741932
Oh puhlease. We just had grade reset day of anniversary starting. And this person already has more than enough based on their current bloodpoints to get a couple of cakes very quickly. In fact, killers can only get cakes on their bloodwebs in every level. That's the only offering they get. So if a survivor leaves if they see a pudding, I don't blame them if they leave the match b4 it starts tbh
"switching characters, or using a character they don't want to spend BP on at that time."
Having BP from reset doesn't solve those issues. I might be playing a character I want to play but I have others I'm spending BP on to get their perks, to get them to a state where I have the stuff I want to play them, or I might just be switching to a new character and didn't get the offering.
Also I mentioned both sides. It's not just killers, I've seen survivors throw up an envelope instead of a cobbler plenty.
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I get people dislike skull merchant but people really are petty about it.
I despise Spirit with a burning passion but I never gave up against her even when she was at her peak because there's 4 other people in the game. Skull merchant isn't even strong, just annoying.
Unfortunately there's many entitled survivors and either killers play the characters they approve in the way they approve or they'll refuse to participate in the match.
As for all the people saying "you brought a pudding" that's also immature imo. Sometimes players don't have an event offering available to use for one reason or another. There's 4 and yall are really mad because "no 5th?" so you just throw all 4 away. The killer/survivor could be on their first event game, switching characters , or using a character they don't want to spend BP on at that time.
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Aura's aren't really an issue unless you're lacking in chases. So my advice is to get better at chase.
Knowing where you are just helps the killer get into chase. Not win the chase, just get into them. A full aura build just means you'll be in a lot of chases (if survivors don't have distortion or play around the auras). No slowdown. Nothing to help you finish the chase faster ect.
The only killer where auras are a concerning issue is Nurse, Blight, Spirit and maybe Hillbilly. But honestly almost any perk is a problem on them because even perkless they're still he Big 4. But that's only 10% of the roster.
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@Sunflower_Mage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735056#Comment_3735056
Counterpoint: Tunnel at 5 gens and slug if need be with an aura reading build. Nothing stops a killer from doing that. Play an anti-loop killer so you are not forced in bad chases, like Pyramid Head. Run stuff like Nurse's Calling so you can see where people are as you want them bleeding out or injured, as if someone tries to be altrustic, you can potentially see where someone is if a survivor helps a downed survivor.
Counterpoint: Auras are legitimately a waste if you plan to tunnel at 5 outside of maybe lethal. You find survivor A at the beginning of the match. Chase them so you know where they are. Hook them, you know where they are. Proxy camp, you know where they are. They get unhooked and you run right to them, you know where they are. Chase them again and repeat.
There's no time where you don't know where your target is so auras are legitimately not an issue for hard tunneling and are detrimental compared to using anything else for that playstyle.
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If you're having 4+ minute chases and the killer gets anything more than maybe an endgame camp 1K that's a massive survivor skill issue.
That's enough time for the other survivor to do all 5 gens. In 1 chase for 1 hook state.
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I think overall gens are too fast for the majority of the killer cast. Assuming decently good survivors.
Sure the top killers are fine but that's just the few up there.
I agree with others saying a secondary objective would probably be the best way to tackle the issue. The issue with that is like @Crazewtboy said, unless it's mandatory it will be ignored.
I will add to that that unless it's mandatory or busted it will be ignored, like boons were. Which defeats the entire purpose of having a second objective to begin with if it ends up making the survivors even more time efficient.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725927#Comment_3725927
So if I'm a killer with many thousand hours who always plays meta and to win (nothing wrong with this) and I intentionally dodge lobbies that have survivors with similar experience to me (which I can tell because I can view their steam profiles for some reason) in favor of getting survivors that are very new for an easy match is harmless?
I cannot cosign that I apologize.
Lobby dodging is a problem because there's no penalty for doing so and the killers have a ton of information before the game starts, these factors almost seem to encourage killers to lobby dodge because you will win more on average by doing so without wasting too much time.
A simple one minute penalty for leaving a lobby that goes up and caps at five minutes maximum and the removal of the ability to see names or open profiles until the end of the match would curb this issue almost fully without impeding on people who dodge for legitimate reasons.
Like I said though, if this happens then hooksuicides should go with it.
How exactly do you "shop for new players"? Leaving and requing just resets your search. In a working MMR system it wouldn't matter, you can't "shop for new players" because you'll never get matched with them.
There's only 2 ways afaik for that to happen:
- A killer to leave a baby survivor lobby and you get backfilled in, which as per your argument that's what killers are looking for so why would they leave? That'd be a very small amount of the time in that case wouldn't it? The backfill would also have to be very aggressive and loose.
- The MMR doesn't work by default so backfill doesn't matter as the games can always be mismatched from the beginning.
In 1 backfill is too aggressive so, as I already stated in a previous comment, the matchmaking should be tightened at the least so that backfill isn't so aggressive if that is what's happening. But players leave hard lobbies not easy ones so that still doesn't explain how you can "shop for new players" reliably if you need to get backfilled in. If anything you'll end up in harder lobbies as killer a ton more as those are the ones people leave. So really this would be affecting killers negatively more (which should still get fixed).
In 2 the MMR itself is the source of the problem because it's too loose, so changing leaving won't really solve anything. As per my first few statement. So MMR should be tightened in general.
New players and vet players shouldn't be matched up I agree. But if that's happening in any sort of reliable frequency that points to a general MMR matchmaking issue and not just a leaving lobby issue imo. So the MMR is the main problem not the dodging. Fix the MMR and you fix the dodge "problem". Change the dodge system and we still have mismatched lobbies.
If this is happening, dodging is just a scapegoat when the actual core problem is the MMR matchmaking. Dodging itself shouldn't reasonably be doing any harm as it just resets the search. The problem comes if the search itself is flawed.
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Boring is subjective.
Some players love being jump scared and this facilitates that on any killer instead of just Myers and such. Those players probably enjoy plaything.
Some players don't like it such as yourself.
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I'd say Executioner and Xeno.
I would've also put Unknown but it seems like more people are coming around to seeing they're not actually that great.
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@IntoTheRain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726069#Comment_3726069
I think that MMR works pretty well, you're just seeing stomps because this game is really snowbally.
That's fair. In that case I would say at the very least backfill should not loosen it's criteria compared to a normal search. In addition I think a working AFK detection + removal of perkless unhook attempts suggested was a good approach to the issue.
Giving up has a much bigger fallout so it's a more serious issue and takes a much more selfish and entitled mindset to do that action compared to the other imo.
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@IntoTheRain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726001#Comment_3726001
Only because the backfill system is far too aggressive.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726032#Comment_3726032
MMR works pretty well, outside of events where you have thousands of returning players - there's definitely something that happens when you come back from a break outside of increased volatility, some sort of undocumented decay. And it's chaos for a few days.
When it's not that, matches are by and large decent - problem is backfill, which seems to be crazily aggressive versus just letting people wait a while. You can see this for yourself in lobbies where someone has dodged.
Well I'm mostly saying that from community sentiment that even with MMR the skill levels are wildly inconsistent and they go from getting stomped to doing the stomping back to back.
If we go off the assumption that matchmaking is actually pretty good outside of backfill then yeah leaving could possibly fill in someone wildly mismatched.
In which case I'd say both are a problem, just to very different degrees. Additionally with backfill it's a potential mess up while with a give up it's reasonably guaranteed.
Like a strong breeze vs a hurricane but saying "but are they both wind?". To use a more common expression, apples and oranges "but are they both fruit?"
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725927#Comment_3725927
Lobby dodging does indeed do great harm, by screwing up the matchmaking big time.
Like I said in my first post, supposedly matchmaking does that anyway. So it's not really making a difference.
If MMR worked well then sure. But it doesn't.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725484#Comment_3725484
Do you agree that the mindsets between killers who lobby shop vs survivors who give up on hook are the same?
Not exactly.
If you lobby dodge you do so knowing you're not really effecting anyone. It's pretty harmless.
If you give up you do so knowing you're going to cause the cascade of problems I listed before, and doing it anyways because you don't care if you screw over everyone else.
That's a pretty significant change in mindset imo.
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My rule of thumb is to always consider a new killer at best a tier lower than everyone says they are.
Everyone was saying A tier so he's probably B tier at best. So yeah that lines up. -
As someone who neither gives up nor lobby shops, I agree with others saying this is not the same thing.
Leaving before the match even started just adds a few seconds to the search and potentially messes with the MMR of the replacement. Although supposedly MMR doesn't work anyway so not sure how much that really matters.
A survivor self sacrificing mid match forces all 4 remaining players in the match to play out the rest of a predetermined outcome wasting a lot more time, everyone loses everything they brought into the match unless the killer lets them escape on purpose, everyone's potential BP gains just went down the drain, any archive players were trying is extremely likely incompletable for that match, it denies the remaining survivors at least a bot teammate, it waste all the work the survivor team already put in, killer gets an empty win, and a loss is thrust upon all the other survivors. To top it all off they avoid the DC penalty which was implemented to combat things like this in the first place.
That 1 survivor is making the decision that "Well I don't like what I see so I'm going to force everyone else on my team to lose and no one can play this match properly anymore, enjoy your massively reduced rewards, wasted items/add-ons, and empty win/loss everyone else."
If MMR is a concern we could also advocate to not have the criteria lessened just because someone left and to keep the search the same. Which again, as far as I've heard would basically still be a mismatched player.
Side note: MMR needs to be improved.
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When the same thing was said about the hook bubbles it was stated that it was intended that way by a BHVR team member. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same case here as well.
For the record, I would also like the setting.
from this thread (friendly reminder not to necro if you check it out):
@blithes said:
please!!!!!! can we remove or rework the hook/gen bubble into something else!!! the amount of times you cant see where the killer goes with kindred or survs w bitter murmur amongst other things like surely there is a better way to indicate when a gen is done or where someone is hooked!!!!!!
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722725#Comment_3722725
They are buffing sabo, so as long as they don't revert the changes survivors will have another possible objective that will actually be sorta worth it.
Not really. The killer loses more time than the survivors which just gives them more time to do gens. So it'll just make the problem worse.
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@Tyler3 said:
And for The Xenomorph and The Demogorgon too!
While I agree I wouldn't count on it too much. Those two are licensed so any skin would have to be approved by the license holder not BHVR. That's why killers like Freddy never got a skin, Myers only has 1, and Pig took years to get like 3. It's a lot more work and hoops to jump through and even then, the holder can just say "no" and the time put in for like concept art and such would basically be wasted.
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These things are not mutually exclusive. They can all be true.
Windows is good for new players.
It's also good for SoloQ.
It's also a crutch since you never need to learn a fundamental skill of the game with it on.
It's not OP. That's a map design problem not a problem with WoO.
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@JeanGreyarea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717174#Comment_3717174
Are you seriously complaining old off the record effect? Thats a new low
Also of they are body blocking just hit them and that’s it
Pointing out that you still get value even if you don't get tunneled isn't "complaining". Are you sure you know what that word means? Please point out where I said it was a problem or that I'm not ok with how it works.
It was an incorrect statement so I said something about it and explained why, that's it. Then you come in with a needlessly aggressive statement making false accusations. Maybe don't be so dramatic?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717380#Comment_3717380
Pretty much nobody was running Off The Record before it was buffed. The bonus is small compared to the Endurance, which you have to get tunneled to get value from.
Whether you deliberately put yourself in a situation where you'll get tunneled to protect another teammate is a different question.
The timer is 80 seconds. That's plenty of time to just get found after the killer finished chasing someone else or patrolling if you were say, getting healed by someone or trying to find a gen.
If the timer wasn't so long I'd agree with you but it is. Sure getting tunneled guarantees it'll activate, but its not like it's rare for it to happen otherwise.
Non-tunneling killers can get effected pretty easily. Remember, tunneling is not just "I got chased soon after I got unhooked". If it turned off after someone else was hooked it'd take care of that aspect and your statement would actually be true.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717174#Comment_3717174
"If you can heal up and go do a Conspicuous Action, then you're just left with pre-buff OTR which really isn't that good."
You get to head to your objective without worrying about being heard or being aura read and also knowing that if you get found by a non-tunneling killer you still have endurance. If you get healed by someone else or a perk you also still keep your endurance for the entire time you're getting healed. In which case you can go find the killer on your own and body block for someone else twice if you really want to. In all cases you get to do whatever you want without fear of aura reading.
"I mean, unless you're being tunneled, you don't really get value."
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@alaenyia said:
Bhvr REALLY needs to cut loose with the built-in unbreakable we were told was coming like a year ago. This repeated, multiple team mate slugging until death is ridiculous. I also think there should never be more than 2 slugs. a 3rd goes down the 1st pops back up. Slugging a whole team and BMing them for 4 min should just never be a possibility.
They tested it on the PTB and survivors abused it heavily so they rightfully scrapped it.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716831#Comment_3716831
I mean, unless you're being tunneled, you don't really get value.
If you can heal up and go do a Conspicuous Action, then you're just left with pre-buff OTR which really isn't that good. Deadlock on the other hand is Generator Slowdown where you need it the most, completely automatically with zero input.
No, even if you don't get tunneled you get 80 seconds where your aura can't be read and you make no injured sounds. You can always bodyblock as well.
Just for playing the game and losing a chase.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716499#Comment_3716499
But they're also nerfing Grim Embrace and Pain Res, both of which encourage not tunneling and camping. So if anything I think we're going backwards on encouraging spreading the pressure.
Both of these perks do, unfortunately, also still work fine with camping/tunnelling though. If anything, I'd like to see them more specifically tailored to these issues, maybe having them scale up with every unique hook, to make the first weaker, but each subsequent more rewarding. Although I'm still not sure that'd work overall.
It's so frustrating that they reverted the wrong half of the Ruin nerf. 200% regression was adequately strong for a hex, and having it automatically destroy itself upon a survivor getting killed was the perfect way to sever its link to tunnelling. But instead BHVR decided to keep it both too weak, and compatible with tunnelling. Baffling choice.
Pain Res "works" just at a really reduced level. Which is where Pop comes in to cover that part up. At least if we mean actual tunneling and not just "I got chased too soon after I got unhooked".
Grim could probably use a range requirement increase to actually promote not camping.
Ruin at 200% was fine on certain killers, idk if I'd say strong enough to make up for purposefully leaving all 4 survivors alive and still being a Hex. Especially on killers it already wasn't great on. But it'd be better that way than what we have now for sure.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715336#Comment_3715336
You can have good regression or the unfun strats, but when you combine both, you get a problem. It's why some of the perks were changed to work less with some of the unfun strats, but that's clearly not enough.
Forums have been pretty vocal though, in that the unfun strats have to stay, which subsequently does mean that the gen regression is going to have to take a nerf in order to bring killers back in line again.
Ah ok, it sounded to me that you wanted to not have good gen regression and also not have the unfun strats so that's where my position came from. I agree that having both at once is probably a bit much. That depends on what we consider "good" regression.
But they're also nerfing Grim Embrace and Pain Res, both of which encourage not tunneling and camping. So if anything I think we're going backwards on encouraging spreading the pressure. Both of these things were/are weaker than just tunneling someone out early, so of course they weren't "enough", they weren't even equal. Especially when you can tunnel and still use Pop at full power since it doesn't care.
Tbf I don't think you can really win with the community. If the killers camp and tunnel it's "unfun". Making gens take longer, regression or otherwise, is "boring". Having super fast chase times to match gen speeds is also disliked. Top 3 killers that can compete without those strats are disliked.
It seems like no matter what the players are unhappy if the killers are able to keep up. There's no tradeoff they'll take 🤷♂️
It all feels very "have you cake and eat it too". -
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3715187#Comment_3715187
A game that can be balanced towards a broader, more engaging gameplay experience, without the constant threat in the background.
Without any "unfun" strats or good gen regression, the only viable things left are the game being balanced either for chases to end very fast and/or for gens to take a mind numbing amount of time to complete. Both of which survivors in general have stated they don't like.
What gameplay experience are you talking about if not those? Realistically they're not gonna remake the game from the ground up either, so it can't be something that'd require that.
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@PogbertChamperson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712454#Comment_3712454
You can already be put into deep wound with FTP/Buckle UP to trigger the perk. This would allow you to run it with FTP alone (worth mentioning that FTP does NOT trigger endurance from MFT).
… and if you run it with FTP + BU you now also have a speed boost whether you got the endurance hit or not because FTP always puts you in broken status. Opposed to now where you have to also get DW and it's only for as long as you have DW.
In your version instead it's guaranteed 60 second MFT on every use even if you don't get DW. So it's buffed. For the person using FTP at least.
So now instead of just the person the killer hits getting the boost, now potentially 1 is getting it from broken and the other from DW. It also encourages tunneling the person who got picked up as the FTP user now has a speed boost immediately for 60 seconds while as you can wait 10 secs for the other.
Unless you exclude endurance to sub it with broken, this is just a buff to the combo. There's no way around that. Even then, now you're encouraging tunneling even more as the FTP user now has a speed boost while the other doesn't.
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@kumarotto said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712323#Comment_3712323
I'm using a translation app, so I'm sorry if the sentences are weird.
I see.
If so, I think the system is at fault.
It is possible to change this in games with systems similar to DBD.
This game has a grade system, but it is different from ranks.
Ranks are more detailed and should not be considered the same as ranks in other similar games, as they are more detailed and allowed to ban characters and ban abilities.
I think that the current DBD has a mixture of so-called "casual match" and "ranked match" functions.I'm a player who just started at the end of last year.
Even the most skilled killers are not that different from other killers, but the level of the survivors they match is too high.
(I don't know if the level of survivors is high or if the current environment is too disadvantageous for killers.)If the level really changes depending on the killer, I don't understand the current situation where any killer matches a high level.
Is it not possible to simply match them to the character with the highest level?
In that case, if you change to another character and the level drops, it's your own responsibility.Or maybe it's a good idea to separate "casual matches" and "ranked matches."
It's not just one way.
You could pick a killer you never play and get matched with a lower skill team, then switch to your best killer.
It's done the way it is so you can pick your weaker or new killer and not get destroyed by teams at your best killers level.
Grades are not used to match players, the number used to match players is invisible.
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Presumably the offering will guaranteed send you to the version that's not killswitched.
As for Hawkins 🤷♂️ might be a contract thing or something with the license holder or the team decided not to killswitch it for… reasons? We really don't know. They decreased the chances for it getting picked but it's not disabled.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712454#Comment_3712454
I think his goal is to make No mither+Made for this to be a synergy.
They specifically mentioned FTP and such in their OP so idk where you got the idea its just for No Mither. Might be a joke but technically that would be a synergy, just not a good one.
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The killer cares more about the survivor experience than other survivors. /s
Both sides are complaining, but people with survivor shades on are the main ones trying to say it's ok to do and make excuses to blame it on anything else but the survivors being entitled and selfish.
On the killer side, you can't really play the game. On the survivor side, you can't really play the game and you lose. Both sides are rightfully complaining about it.
I've seen plenty of players who play survivor complaining. More than killers or at the least just as many. Not sure where you're seeing the reverse.
Which makes sense, at least the killer gets a win. The survivors just have to deal with the L their own teammates just thrust upon them because they didn't like how fast they went down or because a killer from the 60% of the roster they dislike got picked.
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This would just end up buffing the already problematic FTP + BU into FTP + BU + MFT.
No thank you.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712043#Comment_3712043
2 Survivors not on Gens is HUGE for the Killer. How long are you playing that you really think that 2 Survivors not doing Gens is not just the Survivors losing the game?
If it's so bad for survivors, why are so many of them doing it?
Obviously it's to their benefit when its usage in this way is so widespread. If it was making them lose more, they would stop doing it.It's not just for "funny haha" we both know the community is not that fun loving, especially to their detriment. Otherwise we would see everyone running pebble.
I don't really see why if the situation is overall worse for the survivors in most cases there'd so many of them knowingly doing it on purpose.
My guess is overall the loss of the hook state and killer time wasted is more valuable than the little time the survivors lose on gens. Especially if Survivor with DS has Unbreakable or something to get up themselves. There was going to be at least 2 survivors off gens in either scenario. This one just waste more of the killers time, which is more gen time for the other 2.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711969#Comment_3711969
1: Sure, but in the scenario you're describing where the survivor willingly runs over to get downed, it's a safe bet they have the perk that makes that not a terrible idea.
2: It's "some" distance but it's not that much distance, it's only a protection hit. They could definitely have made it to a new tile depending on circumstances, but in that scenario the extra time investment you put into that chase is being rewarded proportionately with extra damage to the survivor team's efficiency. You put a little more time into that chase → Two survivors are occupied instead of one.
It may be what they want but that doesn't mean it's actually all that good for them.
"some" free distance is pretty important. That was the entire reason DH was ruling the meta for years and you're giving that to the person running away up to twice.
If it wasn't strong people wouldn't use it this way. Outside of "for fun" builds. Which basically no one does.
The survivors were going to have at least 2 people off gens regardless (unhooker + hooked). Using DS this way just waste more of the killers time than otherwise which is more gen time for the others. Especially with unbreakable or other perks thrown in to let the survivor get up themselves letting the other 2 focus on gens completely.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711714#Comment_3711714
I think a lot of that is to due with the fact that most people have accepted that if they go down, their game is likely over.
Could be wrong, but that's the attitude I've seen. Especially for early downs.
I really think Survivors need a mid-match or late-match comeback mechanic. I think that would help out a lot.
The killer would need something early-game to also help then because the only reason things like gens speeds allowing 3 gen pop in 1 chase is "fine" is because the killer gets stronger at the match goes on. This would take that away or diminish it.
Regardless this community has shown the stick is far more effective than the carrot with them so just as with other issues, the stick is probably the way to go. It should probably be both but if it's only 1 or the other it's stick.
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@alaenyia said:
Maybe killers (including Otz) need to recognize that if 9/10 survivors are leaving your match. It is not the survivors that are the problem. I play killer and I almost NEVER have someone DC and suiciding on hook is rare. But I also NEVER run back to the hook, do not slug at the beginning of matches, I don't camp or tunnel. And you know what, people stay and play with me.
I win some and I lose some but it's always fair. And you know what that is all survivors are looking for. DbD devs (and killer mains) seem to be under the impression that if a 4k doesn't happen every match something is wrong and needs fixed. Which is why maps are all half the size and killers all have 14 built-in abilities before you even strap on perks. Survivors are tired of playing this way.
As someone who also never slugs camps ect.
People still give up all the time in my games. How you play rarely matters nowadays, people give up after .2 seconds on first hook before you even had the chance to do any of those things. Just because they didn't like [insert anything and everything]. Like getting downed faster than they would like, or getting downed at all for that matter.
I play Dredge, Demo and Singu recently and at most run 1 slowdown if any BTW.