Moonras2
Moonras2
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@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3763087#Comment_3763087
That would punish the killer for not proxy camping and force every killer to hang around the hook or otherwise have no pressure on survivors. You really don't want to punish players for playing in the way that's most fun to the other side.
Broken is the only meaningful mechanic here - you don't need Endurance or Haste if the killer isn't near the hook.
Not necessarily, I just threw out suggestions but those suggestions could go another way. Such as having to mend for 30 seconds after unhooking yourself, a hit to action speed progression for a certain time, etc... Going this way could allow the survivors to keep the anti tunnel perks but still be punished for self unhooking. There are many different things that possibly could be tried and tweaked.
I wouldn't want survivors to just hop off hooks and be able to slap out gens. As someone who plays extremely nice, I know how that would go.
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This might not go over well for me but here is a more off the wall suggestion. Instead of removing the self unhook chance mechanic, how about making it a guaranteed unhook. Except unhooking yourself in this way will not activate any borrowed time effect, ds, endurance, or any other mechanic. They could also be given the broken status effect. Deliverance could stay how it is, as it still allows all of these things. It could also be deactivated in the endgame and even deactivate other perks.
This would stop first hook leaving while punishing the survivor for unhooking themselves. It will also be "something" for when survivors are left on the hook by their teammates.
I know this could be bad for killers who play nice but at the very least the survivor will be severely hindered for self unhooking.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Flukes, to be sure. Doesn't the MMR reset every season reset? That's probably something they capitalize on a lot. Or this recent event which had no MMR. I say this because of the simple reality of having your killer streak broken: you went against 1 decent team. If you went against people your skill level every time, it's possible they'd stop you from even getting a 1-win streak. There's a reason why not just any killer player can get streaks like this. They're luck-based anomalies. That being said, I would be wary about a supposed survivor streak that had been done where they prevented the killers from even getting 1 hook. At least with the killer win streaks, they're like, "Eh, 1 person can escape through hatch or gate. Eh, that counts as a draw, and doesn't end the streak." Denying any decent killer player a single hook is freaking ridiculous, and is very eye-opening about the game's balance of power.
Your rank resets but not the MMR as far as I know. They are 2 separate things. Rank is the emblem/pip system that has always reset, unless they changed it and I didn't see. MMR is hidden and used for matchmaking.
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@Blueberry said:
Should be visible. If people are gonna tunnel, seeing it or not doesn't matter. All this does is help the killers that don't want to tunnel.
This. If someone is being tunneled the killer is more likely to remember who they are anyway in the short term. It just takes one glance at the character section.
I actively go out of my way to try to get multiple people hooked but by mid or end of match I do sometimes forget who's been hooked.
I also don't pay attention sometimes when someone is left on hook for too long and so it would be nice to know they were left until death hook. In my case it would be to not put them out too early but I know for some this would be the opposite.
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I would say it's still tunneling. They can try to bodyblock and try to force you to swing at them, but that's it. There's nothing else they can really force you to do after that. The killer still has the choice in who they are chasing.
That doesn't make it a bad thing either way. Tunneling is allowed. In cases like these, if the survivor didn't want to be tunneled, then they should have taken the opportunity they were given to run away.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753861#Comment_3753861
People really have no rights to complain when they made up killer mind and somehow gone afk, and leaving on hooks without even checking whether killer is nearby or not is plain bad play from survivor
And no, "switch back to finding that person" pretty much never works unless you are legion or something, not to mention the fact it's 100% likely the "tunneled" survivor will be healthy by the time killer switch back, which make it non tunneling
All that extremely niche and specific situation is more like a self fulfilling prophecy than anything else, it's either one of actually getting hard tunneling (3 hooks in a row) or making up something that didn't happened and ignoring dying survivor (which is honestly just an extremely bad play on survivor side)
tunneling is only proven when someone dies, survivors killing survivor is simply a misplay and NOT tunneling, nothing of your post indicates "survivor thinks two hooks in a row as tunneling", but rather, "some survivors are too eager to give up and ends up killing their own teammates by thinking killers are going for three hooks in a row"
And this is why I say it depends on the person and their own perspectives/experiences in the game.
What you say are niche situations in your experience may be more common for someone else . I rarely see a killer double hook someone and not go for the third hook as well. That's why I am best to assume it's always a tunnel. In someone else's case they might see more of the opposite.
I also understand that going for the person they may have left can be harder, but that depends on when the killer decides to turn back on them. If they completely walked away to avoid killing that survivor then yeah, it may not be in their best interest and may not work as well, but the option to kill them, because they were tunneled for second stage, is still there. If they start to walk away, get upset that a gen gets done, then they might turn right back around 10 seconds later and continue with the same person. They just went from not tunneling to oh, better tunnel.
One of the counters that has always been given for camping/tunneling is "just do gens". So it isn't a surprise for someone not to be checked on after they are hooked twice in a row. This honestly probably happens less than tunneling these days but does still happen.
Tunneling also doesn't mean someone has to die. It can be just a focus of one survivor. If I chase the same survivor all game, I have tunnel vision. I may never catch them but above all else they got my undivided attention. I can tunnel for second stage because I know that will leave me with some pressure I can utilize later. Doesn't mean I have to tunnel them out of the game though.
All that being said I don't mean to imply that I see a lot of tunneling because I don't. ATM I can't even play the game. But the problem with tunneling is that there is no blanket definition on what it is and just the threat of it can cost the game.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3753817#Comment_3753817
I mean most survivors hates tunneling because "it stops them from playing the game", so even from survivor perspective it's only tunneling when they die…
I think this one depends on the person and how the game goes afterward. Many people are going to assume they won't get to play and will be completely tunneled out. So they will just let go on hook or dc because they were hooked twice in a row.
Or, perhaps the other survivors saw the double hook and assumed that person is being tunneled out. They may decide to just sit on gens in this case. By the time they figured out they weren't going to be tunneled for the kill, it may be too late to make a save. Now the survivor didn't get to play the game anyway.
A killer may also start out tunneling someone into 2nd state so that the moment the game doesn't go how they expected, they can just switch back to finding that person. Which means the survivor may get to play for 10 minutes after being hooked twice or it may not even last 10 seconds before the killer switches back for them.
To me, from the survivor perspective, it's always tunneling for the kill when a killer hooks me more than once in a row. I have no way of knowing otherwise until they don't.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3750342#Comment_3750342
yeah I’ve been having a few games on there the last couple of days trying not to get too deep into it as cross progression isn’t available yet and there’s only so much I can take of my baby Dwight being tunnelled haha
The game itself runs perfectly! And yes you’re definitely first about the charger - I can tell it will drain quickly with asset-heavy games! And the last few days in London has been really hot and the steam deck was spouting some serious heat lol
I didn't even think about mentioning the charge time to you as I usually use mine docked. There are things you can do to help it though such as limiting the game to 30 fps. I think there are a couple other settings you can change as well ive just never used them much.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736741#Comment_3736741
@Moonras2 I have finally got the steam deck! Looking forward to cross-progression this summer to transfer over!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7L5RJA4IO2K0/fullsizerender.jpeg
Awesome, have you tried any games out on it yet?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736908#Comment_3736908
So why is my SWF experience like a series of escapes? So you understand, my friends and I very rarely play. Next time I'll probably see them during the event. The rest of the time, everyone goes about their own business, plays solo, as an killer, or even plays another game. We're not some play-by-play tournament squad. We have some crazy ideas when someone wants to sabotage, blind, or check out the spider buff in the basement. All we say is "go save" or "the killer is on me".
But for some reason, most of the killers can’t do anything to us. It's literally like annihilation, where Legion with the regression meta is DC from the game. What's wrong with this equation?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736933#Comment_3736933
While I rarely play Killer, I did start out as a killer main and I have played a lot against SWFs. A 2k is not the best you can hope for, but you do need to be more attentive as killer. Even if I'm mid-chase, I will drop the chase if I see another survivor working on a nearby generator. Unlike solos, SWFs typically aren't pressured simply by your terror radius.To defeat SWF you literally have to become a monster who knows no mercy. Play as if your life depended on it. Ruining the lives of many solo players in the process. In fact, it’s a terribly tedious task that not everyone can handle.
Well, the question here is rather who remains on the side of the killers in the long term. Certainly not fans of hooks, which they are diligently trying to remove from the game with various nerfs. Those people, for example, who took one or two regression metas so as not to feel obligated to ruin the life of the first survivor by tunneling.
Competitive people will remain on the side of the killer. They have long been accustomed to overcoming all the difficulties of fate. Of course, they will play on Weskers, Billys and other killers that are competitive in the current balance. And if they were injured by SWF while playing on a weaker killer (Trapper), they will tunnel on 5 generators of the first survivor.
This is literally locking yourself in a jar with spiders, which brings the most sad games.
On my own behalf, I will say that DBD has strengthened me in terms of character, but I am not the killer with whom survivors will want to play when I want to win. I'm literally what's left to play with the survivors. This will be the Doctor with a mixed or pure slug. A Wraith with a possessed build based on Play with Your Food. It’s either a game of hooks, depending on your luck, or I tunnel my obsession to death, then I make myself a new obsession. On the remaining killers, you can build a tunnel of two surviving Friends 'til the End, Alien Instinct and Nemesis, since the one who was saved from the hook will not run far. Well, and other peculiar builds.
Because everyone's experience is different. I can tell a difference when I play with someone but we still lose quite often. Just feels better knowing it wasn't because of teammates not doing anything the entire match.
My experience as killer is also different. I very rarely find it a struggle to play against any group anymore. I also don't play for kills though which changes my experience drastically from someone who does. But I personally find it more fun and stress free.
To the topic at hand:
With all the dc and lobby dodging complaints I see these days, I wouldn't mind if they tested showing killers all the survivor information, including who is swf, and vice versa. Keep lobby dodging as it is, make dc penalties harsher after the first one, and remove the hook suicide ability.
Now they can make MMR more strict on the matchmaking. Queue times would suck but that's just the way it is. Then everyone can freely cherry pick their games. There should be no reasoning for disconnecting or leaving a game because you could see everything that was brought into the game beforehand.
This could even be the difference between a casual and ranked mode. Ranked would basically be pulling all the randomness out of the load out screen, doesn't help with maps though, unless it shows a predetermined map on the load out screen as well. It would also help with anyone who prefers matchmaking over queue times and anyone who complains about leaving games early.
Then perhaps they could just base casual mode off the emblems like it use to be. Promoting more fun play styles while still keeping brand new players separated from others. They could keep the current lobby system in place for the more horror aspect and randomness of it. Maybe even make it so people are free to dc a time or 2 even. Then start punishing for it. But give the option to rejoin a match it case it was an internet issue or server issue.
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@For_The_People said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3736573#Comment_3736573
thank you so much! I’m looking forward to playing it on the Steamdeck more and more! I’ve seen the odd clip of it on YouTube and it looks smooth and visually great!
Sure - only if it’s not too much trouble, would love to know if the unreal update is still smooth :)
I played a match of survivor on swamp and a game of pig on the game. It ran great. I had it on lowest settings but in game it never really dropped below 60 fps. The only time it drops seems to be when spending blood points. That being said I'm still not use to the steam deck controls but I'm the same with any handheld.
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I have the original 64gb model that I put a larger drive in. Every time I've tried DBD on it, it runs really well. I do play on the lowest settings so I'm not sure how it would do if you turned them up.
When I had to spend time in the living room for a while, I didn't want to move around my main PC. So I hooked it up to the TV with the dock. It ran well on there as well. It didn't drop below 60 fps very often that I can remember except maybe on certain maps. I also turned fsr on in game, it just seemed to give it a sharper image.
Im not really a handheld or on the go gamer so I can't tell you how it is for that. But it makes a great backup PC or something you can freely move around rooms.
Edit: I just want to say I haven't tried it since the new unreal engine update but I can later if youd like.
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The issue here is hook trading. A killer can still just proxy camp, get 2 hits on an unhooking survivor. Pick them up and probably have them rehooked before the other survivors scratch marks are even gone. Now the killer gets a free hook and the unhooked survivor has no defense from being tunneled right back out.
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I can crawl around and at least have "something" to do. Or I can watch the silhouette of the other survivor, running, crouching, or whatever situation they are in, while doing absolutely nothing. Being slugged for long periods of time does suck. But being slugged for long periods, while doing nothing, sucks even more.
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@Nazzzak said:
I swear at least 1 million of those times has been by me. I really need to touch some grass but that's gonna have to wait until June 3rd now
Well grass feels the same every time. Unless it's mowed and spikey. This is random and fun lol.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722282#Comment_3722282
In other games you also don't get told that, and since voice chat would not be the only way of communication you can still rely on text or ping.
That's part of the issue. I don't want the text either. In game quick chat or emotes I'm fine with. Other than that I would want to be able to turn off all forms of communication so as not to be harassed about anything.
You are correct that I don't, usually, get told off for not using voice chat in other games. But DBD is a different beast. I never once received a comment on my steam profile until I started playing DBD. The majority of those were negative and caused me to private everything about my profile. That's also not an issue I had with other games.
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@Mr_K said:
But nobody has an issue with people using Voice chat?
What now? Nobody? Where you pull that from?
Lets say solos did have voice chat. It would still be less than what SWFs have. Why? Because SWFs are players that want to play with each other. They played games with each other normally and know how each other refer to things like callouts. Even with communication you will still have disorganization.
Now how about the bad side. One, every streamer out there will want a way to mute. Can't risk someone saying gamer words on stream. Normal players will want this too. Who wants to hear a kid screaming in your ear? Not to meantion the amount of harassment accusation that will popup because of it.
Overall just a bad idea for this game.
This... All of this... Lol.
I get told I suck in nearly every game I play, that has in game voice, and usually end up turning it off. It's nice to be able to come to DBD and not have to hear it an entire match.
Give me the option to turn it off and I might not care. Depends on how many rude comments I get in end game chat for not using the voice chat when all they had to do was use the pre game chat and tell me. In which case I would probably be on my phone anyway and not looking at that either.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3722050#Comment_3722050
Well unlike the hatch, tunneling/camping at least required him to be able to down them in the first place, so some skill there even if it’s little, whereas hatch is just free rng completely. Don’t get me wrong though, I want tunneling/camping removed as well. Tunneling/camping artificially gives killers kills they didn’t earn and removes skill from the game.
I agree there. Hatch is completely up to rng most of the time. Minus the couple of offerings I guess those could be used to intentionally wait it out. But I don't think they should even exist because of that reason.
I don't really have issues with tunneling/camping like I once did, I just find it unfun for both sides. Some people do enjoy it though I suppose.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721834#Comment_3721834
There’s very rarely a scenario in the first 60 seconds of a match to warrant hopelessness and removing yourself on hook. Whereas by the time it’s only 2 survivors left and ones already down that is generally lost. Those are very different scenarios which are not comparable as that is my point since the previous person was acting as if they were the same.
I get that the hatch is the last chance at hope but at that point the game is over unless there’s only 1 gen left. Your only chance at that point is if the killers plays really bad or just camps the guy on the ground so you get to finish the gen. Having times of hopeless is how games work. If killer only has 1 hook and the gates are powered that is generally hopeless for him as well unless the survivors just play bad, that’s how things go. Even though that scenario is hopeless I wouldn’t advocate for a freebie rng kill to be given to the killer for no reason.
If you wanna advocate for a new feature that can give hope through skilled play I’m totally down for that idea. However just giving free rng escapes for the sake of hope to me is bad design.
See I kind of have a different view on it. Often times the first 60 seconds to 2 minutes completely dictates how the game goes. At least in my experience. That being said, I've had amazing comeback games as survivor, not in a long time, but it has happened. Nothing is ever going to make solo queue teammates do gens or anything else for that matter though. Doesn't matter how the match goes.
That's also why the hatch being a last chance of hope doesn't just happen when 2 survivors are left. It can feel like the only option of escape shortly after the match starts.
As far as killers go, they do have a last chance effort, camping/tunneling. Even if the match feels hopeless there is always an option there to try. It may not pan out or it may lead to a 4k. Whereas the survivors option seems to depend on how the killer chooses to play it at the end. The survivor slugged on the ground has it worse of all, unable to do anything but crawl around.
I wouldn't know how to make a skill based mechanic for comebacks as survivor. It most likely would be as unfun as the killers choice to try and camp/tunnel. Id like to see killers have a different option as well. Maybe a way for both sides just to steer off course, forget the objective for a moment, but do something that could possibly slow the game down a bit afterward. Or even reset a small portion of progress. But then that would have to be balanced out somehow so that it couldn't be used to stomp the other side lol.
Personally, I don't care about the hatch mechanic one way or another. Was just stating how giving up at the start or end of a match could often be because of the same feeling. That is my opinion of course.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720411#Comment_3720411
Are we going to pretend that giving up at 5 gens is the same as giving up after the game is over? This is disingenuous to be making fun of people when you know it is not the same thing.
I would say the situations may be different but the feeling is some what the same. Which is giving up because the match now feels hopeless. Hatch is really the only comeback mechanic survivors have. It's also probably part of the reason that DC's or hook suicides don't go higher than they already are. It's the only last hope survivors have in the game.
The beginning of the game is different in that if the match feels hopeless, and there are more than 2 alive, then getting hatch feels less achievable. Watching 2 teammates go down in the first 30 seconds of a match, or running the killer for 45 seconds while not seeing a single gen get touched, also can cause a match to feel hopeless.
The biggest difference between beginning and end is playing out a full match, to at least have the hope of hatch. Then seeing the killer take away that only hope by slugging. Makes it feel worse. When people encounter the latter enough, why not just end it at the start?
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717224#Comment_3717224
Make it regress if they are 2 or more survivors.
If there is one survivor, gates don't regress.
That would be fine but still wouldn't stop a trapper from just walking back and forth resetting his traps. Especially if he's running an addon that injures the survivors. They'll be forced to run off and heal, then disarm the trap, then start again.if they even have time to get started. The regression speed matters most I'd say.
To be clear, I'm not against this idea. I don't know if it is a change I would like without seeing it in action. But it needs the bugs worked out.
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It would have to come with something to prevent killers from holding the gates. For the occasion where you get two gates close together. Trapper or any mobility killer could just keep them regressing.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713673#Comment_3713673
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713924#Comment_3713924
No uproar, no issue.
I created the post for the dichotomy. The image is up to personal interpretation.
What I see is a killer who doesn't care about the outcome of the trial vs 4 survivors who care quite a lot about the outcome.
Someone else might look at this photo and say "hah! 5 perkless gamers, nice."
Or maybe someone comes along and thinks "don't you feel special, you can 2k with no perks."
Up for you to decide…
To me, it is like "I think I understand the feeling". Everytime I try to run a fun build or something it feels like I get a sweatfest lol. Or try to run a healing build on survivor and get plague or legion game after game.
I swear when matchmaking sees you are trying to good off or have a good time it goes "ohhhh nooo, we ain't allowing this around here."
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712612#Comment_3712612
2-3 gens is BEFORE the bodyblock and during the first chase, sorry if that didn't come across correctly. The DS/OTR bodyblock spends more time for the last few gens to pop no matter what they choose to do.
It's not uncommon for a few gens to pop during the first chase. And heck, this is my experience running this build on survivor myself. People can theorize all they want but I'm having hands-on experience with this setup and it's working extremely well, too well sometimes.
Edit: In fact I just finished a match awhile ago against a Wraith using Knock Out on RPD that he sent us to and we all escaped because of the threat of DS. Only I had it, too. All he did was slug the entire match and we just picked each other up, healed and did gens while he chased someone else. At the time I dropped OTR for DS/UB/Flip Flop/Power Struggle so it was even worse to slug me. Once endgame happened and he decided to start picking up, it was worse for him than actually attempting hooks.
I haven't ran DS consistently since any of its old old forms. So I can't speak on it from my survivor games. I'm going on when I play against it. I can't remember the last time it had any effects in my games as killer unless I purposely burn through it. Which I tend to do more often than not anyway. I don't play to win like I use too so im sure my MMR isn't high. There was a time though that I played as hard as I could and as annoyingly as needed and never found it to be bad. This may have something to do with when I first started playing and DS was always guaranteed though and had no requirements except being downed.
I'll give you that it can be annoying, especially if having a bad game or mixed with perk. But in my experience it never does much in game. It usually ends with failed body block attempts or accidental sandbagging.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712578#Comment_3712578
Sure, but I'm successfully giving enough time for the last few gens to pop if the first chase loses them 2-3 gens already. At whatever MMR I'm at, it seems to be that way as long as the other survivors are actually touching generators. And that's just if I'm running it by myself.
Pick me up, eat DS and go on a longer chase. Leave me and UB gets me up.
I can't speak on your games or your experience but only from my own. In my games, if someone body blocking cost me 2-3 gens then I'm probably not doing well or I am playing against people above my skill level. They were probably going to get those gens done anyway.
At most, the body block should cost me a few seconds of distance from what I already had chasing the first survivor. Depending on the map and tiles it is possible they make it to a strong tile in that time. There's also the possibility that they were going to make it there anyway. On many maps I can just run around the person trying to body block.
Unbreakable isn't going to bother me. That's 24 seconds the survivor isn't doing gens or anything else. Plus the time they spent running to, and body blocking for, that person. If they bodyblock again after unbreakable, assuming they managed to run me that long, then I'll know they won't have it again and that DS will be nearly deactivated.
In these specific cases I wouldn't pick up and eat DS, even though I usually do it on purpose anyway to get rid of it. It wouldn't be extending my chase by much because my chase was never with the ds person. The body blocker would just be giving me a down while I'm chasing the first.
In all of this, ds never had any effect on how I played because I went into chase for the first person and the slug was just a bonus I knew could happen along the way. Otr, bt, and possibly unbreakable could have larger impacts but that kind of depends on the map and scenario at hand. If I do decide early to eat a couple DS's, then none of those perks matter to me anymore. Any body blocking at that point is just free hook stages.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712567#Comment_3712567
I've been testing the DS/OTR/UB stuff myself and let me tell ya, it doesn't matter when you're unhooked. All that matters is if whoever is being chased is still in chase and I can reach them post-hook to take a hit and use DS.
The only real exception is if they're on the other side of a bigger map or have a power to avoid bodyblocks/have a ranged power to go around me. And even then, that's situational depending on the loops. You also can take into account of me being able to disable killer powers like hag traps during that time for free with no downside if they decide to down me for doing so.
Then the other two survivors just do gens while I waste the killer's time.
Oh I have no doubt that you can make it to them. It's still on the killer whether or not they decide to pick you up though or to stop chasing the other survivor. This is what we are saying. DS can't force a killer to let it activate. It's on the killer to choose that.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712544#Comment_3712544
Time.
Killer doesn't always have the time to waste on a new chase across the map, especially if survivors pre-run from their gen compared to say, someone who just unhooked in the killer's face before they could leave. This is how my current DS/OTR/UB build gets killers.
Unhooking in someone's face I can understand. It happens more than it really should. Though I don't really understand how time affects staying near the hook as it is more of a gamble. If the survivors are a coordinated team looking to win, they will just knock out the gens while the killer stays near the hooked survivor. Meaning the killer just wasted the time they could've been using to run survivors off a gen. Just to watch a hooked survivor that no one was near until they absolutely need to try for the save.
If they are overly altruistic it may play in the killers favor as well. That can also happen.
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I can definitely see the insta unhooks being a part of it. The rest though, I'm not sure. If gens are still being done during all this then they should definitely have enough info by just patrolling the gens on occasion. Otherwise it sounds like all the survivors must be near the person on hook. In which case they aren't making any progress to begin with and I'd just eat all the ds's and be done with it lol.
That being said, there have been times I've also seen people get unhooked and run cross map to use their DS. The biggest issue with that is they usually make it a fast free hit and let's me know they have ds, that is probably about to run out.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712482#Comment_3712482
"But I'm glad this is where the conversation has gone, because it's revealed now that the problem isn't survivors weaponising DS, the
problem is that you want to punish someone for annoying you and DS stops you from doing it."So you agreed it's an annoying thing to face, and it still doesn't count as weaponize DS? And now you're suggesting Killers to actually ignore these acts, and say it's BETTER to ignore them? So I just have to take the bodyblock in the face, leave them alone in Deep Wound just to get mended in 12s and get on Gens rightaway, all while I chase the healthy unhooker who's already miles away?
Just ask yourself. If DS doesn't exist, would these Survivors dare to bodyblock killers with BT/OTR? It's exactly because of DS Backup that allows them to weaponize these perks without any fear.
Im not understanding how the healthy unhooker could have that much distance? They don't get the speed boost that the body blocker gets from the hit and if you were chasing them to begin with they shouldn't be that far ahead.
On another note, I don't see why we all keep saying the unhooker. If that's always the case then it's no wonder gens are getting done. Running back to or proxy camping hooks to always hit the unhooker isn't going to do anything to stop the other 2 from doing gens.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712331#Comment_3712331
yes, Plot Twist works withoug getting downed, meaning you can use Plot Twist after getting unhooked, or provoke killer into a chase and Plot Twist right before they are about to hit you, meaning easy value out of it.
Yes but if they plot twist off hook then they aren't body blocking. If they manage to bait you into a swing with it, then honestly, well played by them. But you still aren't losing as much distance against the first survivor on a missed swing compared to a hit.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712278#Comment_3712278
now look at it actually from the killer's perspective.
You are chasing the unhooker. Unhooked person goes their way to bodyblock you with basekit BT or just simply waste your time. You down them, you slug them. Now the unhooker is the one that is being chased while unhooked survivor wasted your time denying a hook. There is still one survivor peacefully doing a gen, or even two if the downed survivor with DS has Plot Twist (yes, DS with Plot Twist is an ultimate lose-lose for the killer).
This means you have huge chunks of your time wasted while you have 1-2 survivors doing gens constantly. Keeping pressure on survivors to hold them off gens is 100% reliable against survivors bad in chase who don't know the value of wasting killer's time, but against teams that know what they are doing, you are pretty much going to be cooled by having 1-2 survivors constantly and successfully waste your time, while the other ones do gens.
I may be wrong but doesn't plot twist require the survivor go down without being hit? I've never ran it so I genuinely don't know. If that's the case, they aren't wasting your time with having to make a first hit or if endurance is in play, a second hit. It would be even less beneficial as now you are going to be even closer to the first person you were chasing without the distance loss from the hit.
The unhooked survivor wouldn't have wasted my time by denying a hook with DS. I never intended to hook them to begin with. My goal was the unhooked person. The free down from the hooked person is just someone not doing anything but wasting a few more seconds of my time and not doing gens. They can't mindgame me, they can't run me to another loop, etc... As they were never my target. Their only option for bodyblocking is to get in my way and make the hits free.
That being said, whether ds was in play or not. The scenario is still the same with 2 people possibly on gens except now there may even be 3. You also may not have the pressure from the slug and may still be in chase with the person you started with.
I'm not directing this next part directly towards you but it's starting to feel like people think survivors shouldn't be doing gens at all. A killer shouldn't be able to keep all 4 survivors off gens while they are chasing someone. There is/should always be at least one person on a gen but one or two is much better than three or four on them.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/413039/you-cant-weaponise-ds
so, the killer can avoid the DS and waste the time on finding another survivor while the one that bodyblocked with DS gets to be reset? That's literally still a lose-lose situation lol
You are looking at it wrong. You won't be wasting time finding another survivor because you will have been chasing them the entire time. The point is that if someone tries to bodyblock with DS, you keep chasing the first person you were after. If they block you in some way, just hit them and continue chasing the first survivor. If it's an endurance hit, then still, keep chasing the first survivor and repeat step one.
You shouldn't be losing the first survivor you were chasing because someone tries to bodyblock with DS. They are basically giving you a free slug while still chasing the first survivor. In some cases they may even run their DS out in the time it takes. All this chase you have 2 survivors not working on gens. It may cause the initial chase to take longer but shouldn't cause you to lose that person during the chase.
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@Blueberry said:
So I could just block every single person that beat me?
This would be an absolute disaster if this was ever implemented.
It absolutely would be. Before dedicated servers there use to be a similar program people could use but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. It only showed whether you had that person, or their ip, on a block list if I remember right. But some people would write things down and make list.
Either way I remember end game discussions of people blocking nurses, blocking survivors with flashlights, etc..
Edit: from what I read it didn't actually show ip address but worked a different way and was called MLGA
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@Ryuhi said:
Emblem based matchmaking at least allowed for more "secondary" objectives for both sides: Playing hyper efficient actually hurt your chances of pipping, the goal was to play as well rounded as possible, which made the game feel more dynamic for both sides. It also made it easier to take a win from a "loss," reducing the impact of the end result and allowing players to have their own win conditions more easily (if you died but still double pipped, you know you played your ass off. Same for pips when only getting 0-2K as killer.)
The switch to SBMM, but more importantly how its incorporated in DBD, made nothing matter outside of the end result. The infamous hockey analogy got roasted for a reason, it removed all nuance from either role and forced them into outcome biased results.
My favorite thing about the emblems is that I didn't have to kill anyone to get to purple or sometimes red ranks. I hate playing for kills and still do so I often play for two hooks and let people go. Now that leaves me stuck playing against newer or inexperienced players which I also hate. I've never enjoyed intentional smurfing but now I either have to play a certain way, play against lower MMR or new players, or don't play at all. I do more of the third option these days.
I also enjoyed feeling like I could do more as survivor and it mattered. Now it's either do gens or let the rest of the team down. If I escape or not I don't care but I hate feeling like the others are losing their games because I decided to do totems.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696618#Comment_3696618
I guess because playing stealthy, and doing tomes, chests, totems, etc, isn't necessarily done with the intention of annoying your team mates. Those things earn you individual emblem points as they're still objectives. I get what you're saying, that it can be hard to determine intent, but i'd liken this scenario to someone running around the map dropping every pallet. They know those are useful to their team, and there's no good reason to take them out of the equation unless you were going out of your way to ensure every one had a bad time.
Oh yes that is annoying too. I haven't seen anyone do that in a long time. There's just too much in between for me to know what/if any of that is bannable. Without an official response
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696618#Comment_3696618
It's realistically unfindable if survivors ONLY exits the locker with sole purpose of avoiding crows
If we go in technicality, we can always find survivors unless they are cheaters, but in reality it's impossible because killers can move and see only so much
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696834#Comment_3696834
If that was the case, body blocking single survivor for an entire match would not be considered as hostage because other survivors can progress the game
I believe if you need other players to progress the game, that's enough for hostage
I understand that they are unfindable under normal circumstances of locker hiding. But in this case they had loaded the area with turrets. At the very least it would give the killer a reason to search the area and lockers around it. As xeno they could even exit a nearby tunnel and possibly see their heartbeat when exiting.
Again, I'm not saying I condone this by any means. I don't even know if it qualifies for any kind of report is more or less what I'm saying. it seems to open to interpretation.
If I saw it once I'd probably find it funny but if I already had a bad day of solo queue I'd just be more annoyed lol. Setting up every turret though means they had to be taking the time to do something at some point, even if briefly.
This is one time I really would love to see the match from different perspectives.
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@Majin151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696618#Comment_3696618
Probably picked them up from the station whenever one got destroyed
Yeah I kind of hate how they work. I wanna say someone could've just gone in and took them but that would've been a slow journey walking with them.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696553#Comment_3696553
Killer can't kill or even find infinitely hiding survivors, locker hiding is enough to be considered hostage situation
Yes but if they set all the turrets up there and stayed at shack, I'm not sure they were unfindable. I could be wrong, I didn't see the match. It sounds like they were just trying to be annoying.
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696553#Comment_3696553
"Griefing," in the context of gaming, is when someone goes out of their way to annoy other players. Taking all turrets and creating your own shack fortress falls under that, IMO.
See, I'm not sure how the developers see this though. It would be nice if maybe @Peanits could chime in. To me, seeing teammates crouch hiding behind objects and not doing anything is also annoying. Or someone doing tomes, chest, or totems but not touching gens. But these are not bannable or considered griefing as far as I know.
Someone taking all the turrets and using them to hide out at shack is selfish and would also be annoying. But not really any different than the former if they are doing it for survival.
Im sure they were doing it as you said, to be annoying. As well as going out of the way to do it. But in the unlikely event they were doing it to ensure their own survival, would it still be griefing?
I'm not trying to say what they did was right by any means. There just seems to be no clear definitions with what is what in this game or what is considered normal gameplay.
My other big question is how did they manage to get and keep all the turrets there before anyone else could place or take any?
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Im honestly not sure on this. I don't think there is any rule that can really apply unless the devs decide it can. It definitely isn't holding the game hostage if they could be killed and you knew they were there. I don't know how it could qualify as griefing either. There are no rules that say survivors have to play as a team or save resources for the others.
I'm also not sure what constitutes as normal gameplay. I want to say that I know but if it requires doing gens, helping teammates, etc... Then half the solo queue teammates I get paired with would be banned for hiding in corners all game or going for flashlight/sabo saves.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691983#Comment_3691983
So you agree then that Nurse needs a buff. 99.99% of the playerbase can’t play her at a high level.
Yes, they should give her 115% movement speed and make it so she can blink, a short range, once every 30 seconds. Remove the second blink and now she is playable at every level. I guess maybe make one of her iri addons a second blink but she loses the ability to travel through objects to compensate.
Will this make her a good killer, probably not. In the right hands who knows... That one blink might be a free hit every 30 seconds for them. For the rest of the playerbase, who struggle with her now, she would have basic m1 abilities like most other killers.
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I stay quite often so that the other 3 will leave and I can offer the killer a sacrifice or hooks, if I think they were having a bad game. It is odd that killers often see it as BM when I do this. When I let survivors go, they usually seem to appreciate it. There are exceptions for both sides of course but these are the usual reactions I get.
I can't just offer the killer a kill or hook without making sure the others leave first. I've tried it and it usually ends up in more being downed because they didn't see what I was doing. Even had a few killers walk me all the way to the basement as if I was going to hang out while people came to rescue me.
My favorite time I did this was for a killer. He thanked me because unknown to us, he had let his kid play a match and they were apparently happy to get someone in the end. You never know who's on the other side so I try to be nice when I can.
For the people who run out the exit gates after teabagging and not even offering a hot for points. I have no sympathy there.
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I play one game of either side. If I had fun, I might try more. If not, I play something else or find something different to do.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691879#Comment_3691879
BNP is stronger than before, though. It's an unrecoverable amount of progress against the killer. That's 40 seconds survivors can instantly complete on a gen that can never be regressed. That's far more powerful than old bnp.
The old BNP before all that was an instant gen completed. It used up the toolbox and addon.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690149#Comment_3690149
I've always thought that repair speeds should scale dynamically with both survivors eliminated and gens completed.
Each completed gen decreases global repair speeds by 5%.
Each eliminated survivor increases global repair speeds by 10%.
This acts as a two-way snowball dampening mechanism for both tunneling and genrushing, and equalls out at 1 survivor/2 gens, and 2 survivors/4 gens.
I could get behind that. Even if it only made it to a PTB id love to see it tried.
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@Reinami said:
This solves the problem i mentioned in my other thread of flashlight saves and pallet saves being something that don't deactivate DS. Since its a bit hard to figure out what the constitutes, and we do a simple:
"When another survivor enters the dying state, DS deactivates"
Because if another survivor is downed, you aren't being tunneled.
Do that, and i'll say you can buff DS to any stun amount you want, hell make it a 10 second stun at that point for all i care.
I don't know if it would even be easy to put in the game but I'd like to add to your idea. I'd be for it if they made it so that when a survivor is downed while x amount of distance away from the unhooked survivor, it will deactivate DS. The number could probably never be spot on but it might differentiate between someone staying close to body block and someone who is hiding behind rocks trying for a flashlight save.
It could hurt when a survivor actually manages to block a killer against an object and forces them to swing at them. But with the swing and the distance already gained it would still have given the unhooked survivor a lot of time to run. I'm still iffy on it but I don't dislike it either.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690182#Comment_3690182
That's a fair point. I'd prefer just no collision on the unhooked to prevent all this.
I have no issue with that either that I can think of. I imagine it would be buggy at first but what isn't buggy at first in games these days lol.
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@Blueberry said:
Even more so, protection hits. Solves the abuse problems. If you're body blocking for someone you aren't being tunneled, you're trying to extend chases and progress the game.
The issue here is that sometimes a killer may be tunneling but because another survivor is close trying to help the person being tunneled, it may still register as a protection hit. The scenario happens a lot where someone makes a bad path and the killer manages to get around or swing around them and still hit the person they were tunneling instead of the person trying to protect them from being tunneled.
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@Seraphor said:
Tunneling deserves a greater cost, so yes.
It should remain a viable option, but it shouldn't be a surefire way to secure a victory.
No single tactic should.
We nerfed SM so holding a 3 gen for 59 mins wasn't a guaranteed win, we nerfed Sadako so she couldn't slug everyone to condemn them to death. Tunneling is a trickier tactic to tackle, but it should still be nerfed in some way.
If there was something survivors could do with as significant an effect on the game as a killer eliminating a survivor at 5 gens, we'd all be clamouring to nerf that too.
Things like basekit BT, and perks like DS help, but unless everyone runs them, they're not really good enough. A killer who decides to eliminate a survivor early should have to trade something else for it. Just like how a survivor rushing gens at the expense of rescuing their team mates often finds themselves down a couple teammates unnecessarily.
Sorry for the wall of text lol it started out short and kept going.
At one time survivors did have something similar, just not basekit. The problem was they could be used in the beginning of the game just like tunneling, except they were stronger in working too quickly. Old BNP's. While I think they deserved a nerf, they were one of the things survivors had that could be used late game to turn a game around, or to combat tunneling. Though back then there were a lot of things that could help with that.
I think a comeback mechanic could be good for both sides but both should have heavy consequences at the beginning of the game if using it. I just don't really have any good ideas on that ATM that wouldn't be abuseable.
Punishing early game pushing could possibly help. Something like, putting the same person into multiple hook stages in a row, could increase the speed at which gens are done by a significant factor, for each hook stage. The penalty could be removed when a separate survivor is hooked, not downed, because they'd just slug the person trying to help someone who is being tunneled. If survivors leave someone on the hook until second stage to force the penalty on a killer, the 3 survivors not hooked will receive a speed debuff as consequence. They will lose the debuff after being downed. This could also be a gen speed debuff or aura's shown as well.
For survivors, completing one gen could add a significant slowdown penalty that gets heavier as they work on a second gen. While not on a gen the penalty will begin to lower. Doing a totem, chest, save, body block, heal, etc... could remove or lessen the penalty. This might help killers who have problems with 3 gens being done in the first chase. They would know survivors probably aren't running directly to another gen afterwards. If they did head straight to a gen they'd be basically fighting through a super version of dying light and thanataphobia. The penalty should also apply to everyone working on the gen, even if only one person has the penalty active.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673992#Comment_3673992
It's the same reason: If a member of a premade dies and they can see the Killers perks or addons, they can tell the others what the Killer has and allow them to hard counter them without figuring them out themselves.
Killers can't see survivors perks until the end of the match, either.
Sorry I wasn't talking about seeing the killer or perks there in th second part. I meant seeing if they are in a swf or not. There's no reason to see it pregame if it doesn't give an advantage. I wouldn't be opposed to it showing post game though so people can stop speculating whether it was a swf or not they played against.
If I'm not mistaken they changed the endgame screen a long time ago. Survivors can see things in the endgame lobby but only after the match is over. It use to be the opposite and worked exactly like you just said. Survivors would dc to tell there teammates if a killer had noed, etc.
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673983#Comment_3673983
Yeah, the problem with that is that knowing what Killer you are playing against means you can literally tailor your build to hard counter the Killer. That's why survivors don't see who the Killer is.
All Killers seeing how many survivors in a lobby are in a premade does is tell them how many are in a premade. It is information that does not give the Killer an advantage over survivors.
So how about letting it show in the endgame lobby? No reason to see it in the pregame lobby or as you said with survivors, killers can also just change their builds. That's if they don't lobby dodge for an easier game.