MasterofSFL
MasterofSFL
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What would you be willing to give up to make her chases more successful?
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@kazoie1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666748#Comment_1666748
You say that and then include legion in the big bad list of scary killers you have. If you just dont like playing against them its fine to admit that, hell I don't even care who you like or dislike, but I firmly disagree that you should expect dc's just because your playing meta and I firmly disagree that the onus should always be on the killer to change their playstyle just to prevent dcs. Anyway ive said my peace and dont want to make this into the "lets argue about the same thing over and over again " But Ill copy you one last time
How many times do you think I personally have disconnected or suicided because i dont like the killer and or the build? that would be a big fat zero
I didn't give a list of "Big bad killers" I gave a list of popular killers and a list of killers almost never played: I'll let you mull over which one's I prefer.
You can disagree however much you wish, the fact is that feeding into the very thing that makes the game overall less enjoyable and then having a mild lament makes it an irony. Keep having DCs in your games if you disagree, I'll keep having full games with very few.
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@kazoie1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666711#Comment_1666711
I mean you can insult my post all you want but your still blaming a balancing problem (which if you couldnt tell isnt the any of the players fault because they didnt make the damn perks) on the killers end and insisting that they change there playstyle because you dont like how a subset play instead of arguing to make more builds/killers capable of matching there strength.
I will insult your post, because it's no different than the teenager picking the strongest character and wondering why his 4 other friends don't like coming over.
Balancing issue or not, the fact is players still have an active choice in what and who they play as, which means they are culpable to a modest degree. If you want to play the popular meta killers/builds, expect to have more DCing players in your games. If you want less DCs, play less meta killers/builds. That will be the easiest, simplest solution up and until your killer falls out of favor or the game reaches a better balance.
Again, I already practice this. Guess how often I get DCers when I play as a killer?
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@kazoie1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666627#Comment_1666627
That makes no sense at all. "if you're tired of people DCing, stop playing the popular killers"? why do they have to play an "approved" killer for people not to dc, do they have to play approved perks as well? how bout cosmetics?
Is this a serious post?
When a community (any community) gets oversaturated with the same, stagnant, frustrating gameplay, what do you except? Because the inverse of this statement is "Why should I switch characters just because you're not having fun?" It makes perfect sense if you're not posing that question to the playgroup. When players go hard on optimized/frustrating metas, it makes other players not want to play, so the simple solution is to not play the optimized/frustrating meta if you want others to play with you.
Yes, it will mean you might lose more often. Yes, it does mean you don't always get to choose your favorite character/deck/playstyle, ect. The trade-off is that you actually get to play. This goes for the killers and survivors in this game, because for every "Survivors keep dcing in my Legion games" post, there's another headlined with "Survivors are abusing DS, why even try to hook?"
By the way, I make it a point to avoid the frustrating killers and meta builds for both, so I'm not asking anything more of others than I myself already practice.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666627#Comment_1666627
Clown is my main. Survivors still DC, and I rarely tunnel or camp. I DO slug though because it’s absolutely necessary in higher ranks.
Survivors just DC for anything other than handing them an easy escape by standing in the corner all match.
I love playing Clown, I've had it happen, but I've seen far less people DC in my games as Clown or Trapper than I have in my Survivor games against any of the one's I have mentioned.
I don't fault people who DC half the time at this point, as getting that 4th Ghostface running Devour Hope in a row makes me rather chapped.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1666640#Comment_1666640
At least Bloodlust one already kicks in very soon. It is a terrible mechanic, it is already strong as it is.
@Topic:
This would only be another hand-holding for bad Killers. "Take long in a chase? Ah, dont worry, we make the Gens extra slow for you so that you can take your time. :)"
I mean, why learn how to run tiles or when to break chase when you can get effortless slowdown (on top of your effortless speed increase via Bloodlust)?
It's terrible and it's weak. It's supposed to help with endless looping, it barely does unless you hit level 2 and even then, that's half a generator. I'm the first to put my hand up and criticize bad killer plays being rewarded, but running the timers down through "save my cheeks" perks is also just bad survivor play too. Bloodlust should kick in sooner, even if it's at the minor cost of reducing it's level 2 and 3 ms increase. I'd also rather killers adopt more "chase centric" builds, such as this kind of effect.
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@Xzan said:
I'm not interested in dragging out onesided games. If I can end a game in 5 minutes, why shouldn't I? It's PvP, not handholding simulator.
If a game is onesided because one side is bad, that's one thing. When a game is onesided because one side is wearing their Nike Bands and chugging Gatorade at a dangerous pace, then fun is just being optimized out. Games like Dead by Daylight are not Triple A titles with millions playing and tuning into the next tournament, they're meant to be niche recreational (as opposed to casual or competitive) games.
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I'd prefer Bloodlust just kick in sooner: 10/20/25 secs.
Generator slowing/regression/stalling is already too powerful and overbearing. If you wanted to tie an effect like this to bloodlust, you'd first have to deal with the other perks and make them more consistent/open to counterplay. Do that and effects like this would be more than welcomed, as it would incentivize killers to actually participate instead of slapping on a few passive perks and riding it out. Frankly, bloodlust is underutilized as a mechanism and more perks with relatively strong effects should be tied to it.
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Probably because people are tired of playing against the same killers, with the same abusable/annoying powers and (presuming) the same boring meta builds.
I can say wholeheartedly I understand it, every other game it's a Legion/Spirit/Ghostface/Doctor and never do I see a Trapper/Clown/Demo/Huntress. After a while, it gets boring, stale and frustrating to deal with it. My suggestion: if you're tired of people DCing, stop playing the popular killers.
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From my experience as a survivor, Doctors overly rely on their Blasts and Shocks to track survivors instead of using them to disrupt survivors. Doing so doesn't teach you how to actually locate survivors or make good guesses based on the map. Inevitably once survivors understand you're just using your Blast to locate, they just start hiding in lockers at the hint of your terror radius and wait for you to blow it.
You'll see the difference between a good Doctor and a bad one once you see a Doctor use his Blast near generators/walls and just walk off after hitting nothing vs checking areas proper and saving Blast for chases/educated guesses to disrupt/stop healing/generator/cleansing.
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That's because SWF players want to dunk on the killer and feel superior, whenever you nail them for being cocky or plan for their shenanigans, they get upset that they had every advantage and still died.
It's the same thing when it comes to killers who hard slug, camp and bring every exposed/mori item they can. You run them in circles and they get red in the face end game.
Dead by Daylight has a dichotomous community: Group A just wants the fun and thrill of chasing/being chased; Group B just wants to have a complete blowout and bask in it.
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@FFirebrandd said:
See, I didn't forget what Thanatophobia is for... we're just not getting enough of a buff back for what we're losing. Old Thana is -4% on Gens and Healing per injured Survivor (and sabo but that almost never matters). New Thana is only -5% on Generators.
We lost half the perks effects and got back a measly 25% boost to the remaining one. That is simply not enough.
Seriously... take a game with old Thana and new Thana and lets suppose the Survivors do the exact same number of heals and generators. Do you know how many times they need to heal for Old Thana to have wasted more time than new Thana? Less than 1 time per generator. That's it. +1% was a pathetic buff for losing half the effect of the perk.
If it had been 6% I would have been cautiously optimistic. 7% would have been great. 8% would have me super excited. I'm not hating on the direction they are taking the perk. Far from it. I think it is brilliant. Making the perk not counter its counter play is fantastic and should allow the Devs to make it stronger because the Survivors can fight it and counter it (especially now that Desperate Measures exists). Here's the thing though... they practically didn't make it stronger. They made room for extra power in its power budget and just... didn't give it back.
Balancing isn't a *finger snap*, ok it's done.
Anyone complaining that nothing is getting put back into the perk itself to compensate doesn't understand the difference between theory crafting numbers and abstract thinking. What you're doing is theory crafting, simply looking at numbers and deciding whether or not something is optimal, beneficial or a negative based on that 1 dimensional assessment. Theory crafting is what you do when you're just looking to compare numbers, when all other variables are held equal. What the OP is doing is abstract thinking, which is what's necessary for game design, because abstract thinking is what you use to run an idea from A through Z.
Thantaphobioa, with it's healing debuff, gives no trade off to doing any particular action, except that healing will remove the effect. Without the debuff, you're shaving off 3 seconds for healing and 3 seconds is a lot to a survivor. 3 seconds is the difference between healing and hiding and healing and being chased again for another 20 seconds. On paper, it looks only like you're gaining a few extra seconds on gens, so why bother healing when you can still do the gens in ~56secs. The reality is it's less risky at 16sec to heal and hide than it is at 19secs, then being chased for 20secs more. Being at 2 health states instead of one is the difference between a 20sec chase for only you and a 20sec chase plus 30sec hook that totals to 2min of survivor downtime (your chase and hook, their walk and unhook). These things add up quickly, so making the decision clear for survivors (heal now) means they are more likely to blow the 16secs healing (taking 32secs total off repairs/other actions for one survivor) than doubling up on a generator to save 40secs (Full thanta).
That fact alone puts the killer in an advantage state, but given entire builds/killers can play around that knowledge and abuse it means that you're going to have more opportunities to catch healing survivors. More opportunities means more time spent disrupting survivors. More time spent disrupting survivors means more time sunk into non-gen related channeling. More sunk time and less channeling on gens means less survivor progression and less progression increases your odds of winning.
This is the domino effect of changes like this, which theory crafting can't take into account. Your suggestion would push generator progression so far back with one perk that it could easily push killer stall/regression builds through the roof, by making it almost impossible to do generators without healing. Mix in anti-healing perks/abilities/status and you have created a lose-lose scenario for survivors.
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(Read before hand)
Each section has a TL;DR at the bottom if you are not interested in reading this post in its entirety. At the very bottom of the post is an explanation for these changes if you are interested.
Short list of changes I’d make.
General:
Add:
- Perk Categories
Rework the:
- Bloodweb
- Totem system
- Offering system
Killers:
Add:
- Killer Categories
- General Killer Bloodtree
- Category Unique Perk Slots (5 slots total)
- Anti-Camping mechanisms.
- Objective Offerings
Rework:
- Hexes
Remove:
- Red and Green Mori
Survivors:
Add:
- General Survivor Bloodtree
- Survivor Categories
- “Determined/Hopeless” status.
- Survivor-Perk Category synergy slot (4 slots total)
- Environmental Offerings
Rework:
- “Determination perks”
- No Mither Rework
Remove:
- Map Offerings
General
Add-Ins
Perks for killers and survivors need to be categorized in the something resembling the following:
Killers: Tracking, Terrorizing, Ambushing, Bedeviling.
Survivors: Observant, Kindred, Defiant, Motivated.
Tracking and Observant perks deal with finding/evading the survivors or killer respectively. Terrorizing and Kindred perks are aimed at passively debuffing/buffing other survivors. Ambushing and Defiant perks relate to starting/ending chases. Bedeviling and Motivated perks work by focusing on the meddling/misinformation or completion of objectives, side objectives, ect. These categories would be used later on for the killer and survivor categories and their interactions.
Reworks:The first thing, above all others, would be to rework the bloodweb into the bloodtree. The concept would be similar, except you would have 3 branching paths: General, Unique, Add-on. Your killer/survivor levels would be tied to how many bloodpoints you’ve earned in matches with your respective killer/survivor (instead of how many you have spent on). The general bloodtree would be where you’d go to spend those blood points to unlock perks: the Add-ons path being the cheapest; the General path being in the middle and the Unique path being the most expensive. After spending a certain amount of bloodpoints, the two paths with the least spent begin to close off.
The totem system would work similar to how trapper’s is: totems spawn in random areas; the killer can see the auras of totems for a limited time; the killer can pick up 1 totem at a time and place it elsewhere. Totems would have a 1m radius in which survivors could detect them through a terror radius.
Offerings would be retooled to give survivors and killers different options to affect the match. Survivors would gain the ability to alter their environment (More pallets, windows, lockers; Less mist, crows, hook distance) and lose a handful of other offerings like map selection. Killers on the other hand would be able to use two non-map offerings or a map offering, with their main selections being related to objectives (Closer/Further generators/hooks/totems, More Hooks/totems).
TL;DR Summation:
Perks for both killers and survivors would be placed in one of four respective categories for gameplay purposes and identification. The bloodweb would be reworked into a 3 prong bloodtree that affects all survivors and killers respectively, while levels are tied to bloodpoints earned during a match and not how much was spent. Totems would work similar to bear traps, allowing killers to reposition them, while survivors can now hear totems. Killers and survivors would now have different offerings affecting the next match.
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Killers
Add-ins:
As mentioned, perks would have categories and killers would be classified by a combination of those categories. Killers are placed in categories based on what they need/synergize with:
Stalker: Tracking, Terrorizing, Ambushing
Savage:Terrorizing, Ambushing, Bedeviling
Predator: Ambushing, Bedeviling, Tracking.
Pursuer: Bedeviling, Tracking, Terrorizing.
Killers would receive a 5th perk slot and if a Unique Killer Perk that matched the killer’s category was placed in it, it would give a slightly better version. Examples of these killers (as they are now) would be:
Stalkers: Huntress
Savages: Micheal
Predators: Ghost Face
Pursuers: Trapper
An Anti-camping mechanism would be added, to promote the killer to actively make plays or set up ambushes. The mechanism would be the following: after a short period, Hooked survivors within your terror radius and 10m of you die at a slower rate while you’re not in chase. After a period of time, hooked survivors within your terror radius and 10m of you gain a higher chance of unhooking themselves while you’re not in chase. Survivors gain altruism points while under this effect.
Rework:
Hexes would be reworked to be split-perks that have a held and manifested effect. Held hexes give small, perk related buffs to the killer. Killers can activate at any time all available hexes that randomly light one totem for a modest period of time. During that time, the main effect of the hex(es) is active and the held effect is disabled. If the hex is found while active, the manifested half of the hex is disabled for the rest of the game and the held effects go on a cooldown before reactivating. If the hex timer runs out, the killer immediately gains the held effects and may activate the hex again, lighting another random totem.
Remove:
Red and Green mori-like effects would be removed.
TL;DR Summation:
Killers would be placed within 4 different categories and given a 5th perk slot, with a possible small bonus, to promote a diversity of builds and playstyles. Anti-camping measures would be implemented to ensure chasing, objective-denial and ambushes are pursued over ensuring one kill. Hexes would be reworked into passive/activated forms, with the activated portions of the perks being at risk of removal by survivors. Mori-like effects would be removed from add-ons and offerings.
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Survivors
Add-ins:
Similar to killers, survivors would be placed into 1 of 4 categories Observant, Kindred, Defiant or Motivated, based on their overall kit theme. Observant work to locate other survivors, the killer and/or the killer’s activities. Kindred survivors help other survivors, boosting their kits, actions, ect. Defiant survivors excel at hiding, running, escaping from or interfering with the killer. Motivated survivors locate, protect and/or complete objectives faster.
A new status called “Determined/Hopeless” would be introduced, similar to exhaustion. Determined would be required to use certain perks. Hopeless would be triggered whenever a survivor is downed while in a deep-wound state. Survivors affected by “Hopeless” would be unable to gain “Determined,” be unable to wiggle free of the killer and would die faster on hook while under the effect.
1 of the 4 perk slots for survivors would be a synergy slot. Any generic perk sharing the same category of the survivor within that slot would give a slightly better version.
Rework:
Perks such as No Mither, Unbreakable, Decisive Strike, Mettle of Man would give the survivor the ‘Determined” status. While determined, the perks would be usable and active. Upon picking oneself up, escaping the killer due to a perk or taking an additional hit due to a perk, the survivor is put into a deep-wound state and loses “Determined.” Any hit while in the deep-wound state, as stated above, would place the survivor in a “Hopeless” state.
No Mither would be reworked to differentiate itself from Unbreakable.
You are affected by the Broken Status Effect for the duration of the Trial.
- You do not leave Pools of Blood.
- Grunts of Pain caused by injuries are reduced by 25/50/75% at any time.
- Grants the ability to fully recover from the Dying State.
- Your wiggle progression is increased by 5/7.5/10%
- Taking a protection hit, self-recovering from a downed state or escaping the killer’s grasp puts you in a deep-wound state. If you do not mend yourself within 15 seconds, you are placed in a downed state.
Remove:
Map offerings for survivors would be removed to give them less control over the game.
TL;DR Summation:
Survivors are now placed in categories. Survivors may choose a single, generic perk that shares their category to get a small boost. New statuses are introduced to balance the use of “escape” perks and No Mither is reworked to give it a niche within the escape perks.
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For those interested in why I’d make these changes, having played the past month straight of this game I have noticed a few flaws in the game’s overall design that lead to toxic, flip of the coin games. The bloodweb system is extremely grindy and makes accessing new perks a struggle. Additionally, there is no real benefit to playing any one survivor other than who you ascetically prefer. Id’ like to see DbD start to place an emphasis on the individual killers and survivors, by carving out niches for the two groups and the various subgroups. Knowing that only killers have access to map choice and objectives, but survivors have access to the environment can open up metas. Giving killers and survivors perk synergies helps define both, while giving killers more pre-game information based on what survivors it’s facing. Tying a killer’s terror radius and distance to a hooked survivor’s time on hook encourages killer builds and playstyles that actively seek out and disruptive survivors, while opening up “Bait & Ambush” as a legitimate strategy. Lastly, retooling “escape” perks to have downsides makes sloppy play more punishable for survivors, while not completely destroying the purpose of the perks.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
#3 Speaks to me the most, and while I would be inclined to write a long reply, I've already written a post to that extent before, so I'll just link that.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/182997/place-able-totems-player-specific-totem-spawns
Hexes currently are far too out of the killer's control, and no matter what changes the developers implement to change hex totems, as long as they spawn in the trial pre-chosen and pre-placed, Hexes will never feel as "right" as they could. Take what the Minecraft Live segment on design said about making sure that things don't "just happen" to the player. There's always a reason and the reason must be player caused, either by inattentiveness, poor planning, or falling for a trap*. In every scenario, in all games and in real life, when there are intense feelings being simulated, leaving negative things up to chance (and having a totem broken in DbD is essentially that at base) always breeds frustration. It's why killers get mad at "genrush" or their totems breaking in the first five seconds. Expectations are everything when it comes to satisfaction, and when the expectation is that the player will at least have a chance (from their perspective), things that seem to deny that breed immense frustration and dissatisfaction.
*it's why I hate the Undying Ruin combo because the survivors have no control over which totems get broken first since it all depends just on how the survivors happen to path (this is accelerated by perks but not made extensibly different).
--
Kind_Lemon
An advocate of place-able totems, a priming-pallet interaction, and the removal of Exposed from tier 1 Devour Hope.
Also supports changes to how many survivors need to be present to start repairs on a generator.
#revertNurseaddons #reverttieroneDevour #reverttieroneBL #nofreechaseresources #placeabletotems #revertBillysounds #workwiththemusicyouhave
This thread is an attempt to address that. Many comments I've read in other threads are summed up in this frustration on both sides. The game is asymmetrical, which means the RNG does not hit both ways equally. A killer whose screwed by RNG loses an important perk before ever getting use out of it. Survivors get screwed by having the rules changed, with almost no way of directly dealing with it (Ruin+Undying).
My preference is using #3 as a base and working through it to resolve the hex issue. Even if totems are not directly placed by the killer, the simple option of having a small perk that activates for large, limited, but risky gains, opens different kind of killer strategies while giving survivors windows.
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@Avilgus said:
What is the equivalent of "Tunnel/facecamp" in the survivors side ?
The game is asymmetrical, there is no equivalent.
The closest you get to that is SWF, light spam, full time harass the killer.
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The poll is improper.
Tunneling is simply chasing down one survivor repeatedly, face camping is flat out camping the hooked survivor. Of the two, face camping should be a bannable activity, if the devs are not going to implement mechanisms that dissuade killers for openly, blatantly and repeatedly doing it. The entire theme and flavor of the game is to be chased/hunted/harassed by a killer, any killer that stands next to a survivor mid-game takes that away.
Yes, the killer will "lose," but there isn't a win/loss in dead by daylight, it's performance and bloodpoints. While the killer may not get as many trying to chase the survivors, ensuring a kill is a guaranteed amount plus a count towards dailies/rift and that's worth it for many. The flip side is that the survivor who was hooked now has the choice of blowing the next howeverlong it'll take to die on hook and get almost nothing for the game or DCing, getting nothing and robbing their team of their time on hook. It's toxic to game health to do it.
If you wanted to solve that problem with an easy fix, hooked survivors in your terror radius have their regression rate reduced while you're not in chase and they gain altruism points for the duration. That forces the killer to stand there for an extremely long time or to get up and start finding other survivors. This also opens up "Bait & Ambush" builds with things like Insidious for non-stealth killers.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662960#Comment_1662960
Having the killer place his own totem is already taking away precious time away that could be better spent finding survivors.
Take suggestion 2, for instance. The killer would have to roam the map, see each totem spot to find an appropriate one, then attach their hex perk to the totem they want. Meanwhile, survivors see all the totem spots (because killers literally alert survivors to their presence via the TR) and know exactly where the killer placed the perk. Alternatively - and the most likely scenario, given how the game is played - the killer would place the hex on the nearest totem to save time, even if the placement was crappy, meaning this is effectively the current mechanic, but the killer wastes more time.
Suggestion 3 has another major flaw. You literally want killer perks to be actively detrimental to killers if survivors counter them. That'd be like if OoO injured survivors if they were going up against a stealth killer or whatever. Having your perk countered (i.e.: having no benefit from using the perk) is enough of a detriment in and of itself. Nobody who's playing seriously would run a perk that actively hinders you if your opponent happens to counter it.
Suggestion 4 would either result in more genrushing, or survivors just hiding for several minutes until the hex perks expired. Probably the latter, since that's what happened after the first NOED nerf.
Suggestions 5 and 6 have the same problems as 2.
Overall, your suggestions (again, apart from the first one) are also needlessly complicated for both players and developers.
Having the totem randomly spawn is also the main problem with the current hex mechanism. As I stated to ToxicMyers, hexes are meant to be High Risk, High Reward, but they are effectively a coin-flip in this current iteration. There are only two ways to solve for that: The killer places the hexes or the hexes must spawn in hard to reach areas. Even coding the hexes to spawn the furthest away from the survivors doesn't solve the problem, as that's still information for the survivors to use to find and locate the hex quickly. So you're back to the killer placing the hexes or the hexes spawning in hard to reach areas and the latter makes hexes too powerful if the numbers or effects are off. That leaves you with the killer placing the hexes or keeping RNG and RNG is the entire reason hexes feel too oppressive or too useless to begin with.
Your complaint isn't about the placing, it's about the perceived time it would take to find and attach hexes to totems, but that itself can be addressed in a myriad of different ways. There's nothing stopping killers from simply being within a certain radius of the totem(s) to place the hexes, instead of walking directly to them or activating the hex and a random totem within a wide range lights up. There also isn’t anything barring the action from being instantaneous instead of channeled: So these are moot points.
If the issue is that gaining a debuff is your problem, then don’t put the debuff in. Trading power for risk is the definition of High Risk, High Reward and hexes are already trading certainty for power. The suggestion is only there for balance reasons.
Games last between 5-15 minutes. #4 places Hex:Lullaby at an 8 minute timer, with the ability to recharge the hex. I doubt survivors are going to wait 8 full minutes hiding, without one getting caught, especially with perks like whispers and killers like Doctor.
Again, I have to reiterate this, nothing in #1-6 are concrete. My main concern is making hexes, as a mechanism, consistent and workable. You like #1, because it solves the issue of losing an entire perk, but that then begs the question as to why hex-perks even exist and how certain hexes would even function (I.E. How do you split Ruin?). Your complaints about #2-6 are mainly time centric, yet if the time issue for the killer was resolved, what about the core of the suggestions are actual issues, what ones are workable to you?
For example, what about a combination of #1, #3 and #5 would be a problem, where hexes are Split-Perks with modest effects that you activate for power gains for a limited period, at the risk of losing the perks if cleansed and all the hexes are combined into one randomly lit totem on the map. That solves for your time issue, takes pressure off the killer, gives the killer a modicum of control over the hex, yet allows for Highs and Lows.
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@BestGame said:
I just wondering why people keep using hex btw... very ez to find... at red rank any hex totem only last below 20 sec....
survivor with map decrease difficulty to find hex at double rate.... just use sloppy and thana for now ( before thana nerf )...
Probably because some effects only exist in hex form and some just like the playstyle.
Personally, I like the idea of hexes, but the fact is that only a handful are viable options. That's mostly because they can be cleansed so fast and so easily, with no retaliation from the killer. The devs needs to address that issue before touching the power of any hex in particular, which is partly the point of this thread.
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@Orion said:
Most of these suggestions just push more risk onto the killers, who are always pressured to be as efficient with their time as possible, while making it even easier for survivors to deny killers their hex perks. By the time killers are no longer under pressure, the trial is over, and the perks become irrelevant. In other words, these suggestions (except the first one) are just straight nerfs to hex perks, because killers simply do not have time to go around lighting totems or desecrating altars or whatever.
The only suggestion I could see myself supporting would be the first one, and only for specific hex perks as they exist now.
Suggestions #1-3 all place the hex placement in the hands of the killer and each take little to no time on the killer's end and in fact front load the power of the hex in #3. Only suggestions #4-6 put resource management on the table, with #5 specifically making hexed-totems immune to destruction, only being disabled for a limited time before reactivating. The only change given to help survivors was a small 1m terror radius as a general tuning, while the killer got the full auras of all totems for a minute at the beginning of the map. Calling these nerfs when the upside for each suggestion was not losing a hex immediately, keeping power within the killer and forcing survivors to constantly deal with the threat of a hex is mildly absurd. It's especially absurd on the grounds of time, given #1-3.
That said, there's nothing stopping the combining of any of these into one full mechanism or simply adopting suggestion #1. Whatever promotes balanced play and leads to more fun, decision heavy matches is what matters.
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@ToxicMyers said:
But isn't that the point of the hex? High Risk/High Reward?
High Risk, High Reward does not translate when the risk and reward are both RNG.
The current hex mechanism leaves both the Risk and Reward in the hands of the servers and not the players. It's a literal gamble, roll of the dice. For High Risk, High Reward to work, the reward needs to be consistent while the risk needs to be factors inside the control of the players in the match. If a hex can be cleansed within the first 20 secs of a match, cause a survivor spawned there, you've lost an entire slot (and possibly the game) through no fault of your own; conversely, if that same hex spawned in the most esoteric place, the survivors lost through no fault of their own. That's not a High Risk, High Reward strategy in gameplay terms, that's just a flip of the coin.