FrenchBagels
FrenchBagels
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Much snappier. I was personally worried we had another Twins situation before the holiday but the devs at least addressed a lot of the major pain points. Not perfect but hey even though this should’ve been done in the PTB it’s something to be happy about.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849595#Comment_3849595
killer can only be in 1 place at the same time and it just so happens that there are 4 people on survivors, add 2 + 2 and understand that the killer is not capable of protecting generators and leading chases and protecting totems, the killer will have to choose something 1, and when he chooses, just do what he doesn’t have enough hands for
This would make more sense if totems weren’t next to generators due to the smaller maps. Also, most notable killers have some sort of AOE (Doctor/Pinhead), traps (Mint Rag Hag/Bloody Coil Trapper), or the obvious mobility killers (Blight/Billy/Wraith). All of these killers can easily patrol generators, hit/run, and protect totems either by interrupting/aggressive mobility.
You’re looking at this in a vacuum and not the vast majority of factors that this game is held together by.
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There’s outrage every chapter because people like to nitpick hypotheticals that don’t exist. Remember Blood Rush in PTB? Good times.
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@Rigbeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797829#Comment_3797829
I'm sorry where is the actual discussion> Because I think I just told you that you should learn the counters. Nowhere did I direct you to pixelbush, who I find cloying, I told you to learn and accept that not everything is going to be a loop simulator. Gbye.
Literally dodging the argument. You’re deliberately avoiding the concept that solo queue is harmed because of how SM’s kit functions. You CAN learn counterplay to the drones, but it does not apply to anything outside of SWF. I’m not even trolling you, I literally just outlined a scenario where Skull Merchant’s haste is extremely flawed and is harmful since the “counterplay” is out of your control. I’m being critical of you refusing to explain the counterplay because THAT’S AN ARGUMENT.
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@Rigbeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797812#Comment_3797812
I JUST said, look it up to them. LOOK IT UP. I am not going to be the arbiter of "how to do x" to a buncha people who're on the Hate Train. I am not saying it again.
Sounds like you don’t have an argument to her bad game design and you’re asking people to look up a Pixelbush video when you know for a fact her entire kit was designed to be detrimental to solo queue, somehow more so than Twins.
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@Rigbeta said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797783#Comment_3797783
I am sick to death of repeating myself. I already made a list of counters in plenty of forums and so has everyone else. I just wrote in this discussion that the main issue with people is that they REFUSE to learn or read the counters. How about looking it up since you want to be cheeky and obtuse.
can you explain how to counterplay the solo queue teammate injuring themselves out of chase to a drone and then you, who is actually in chase, loses because the SM with the giga-haste build magically skates to your location ignoring most loops?
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If this was true, they would’ve brought back Overheat Billy, Revert Knight Guard cancelling, and not keep the buffs to Singu, Nemesis, and Huntress. Freddy was nerfed because Forever Freddy was genuinely a problem and people keep forgetting about that. I agree he should’ve had something done to him years ago but they’ve only now started embracing larger scale mid chapters for some reason.
tldr: based sm nerf, Billy will still be a gigachad, and no one on bhvr is intentionally looking at a Killer like Wesker and contemplating 100 ways to gut them
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A slap in the face for survivors who can’t learn to chase on most tiles so they go down in 10 seconds and so they stay on the edges of the map waiting for everyone else to die for a 50/50 shot at Shack Hatch?
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Seems like someone here doesn’t like Hillbilly being able to effectively defend hook during end game.
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if that’s the case then when is nurse getting on the chopping block? cant come any sooner
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I maintain that every Boon except for Illumination are extremely good and underused. Shadow Step is easily one of the best boon perks so I hope people start running it more along with Exponential.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3797432#Comment_3797432
Well hopefully they won't ignore the feedback like they did with Knight after PTB.
They did not ignore the Knight feedback. They literally gave him what everyone wanted. They just didn’t immediately release it.
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Bro is complaining in advance. If I order the Chef’s Special I’m not gonna immediately say to the waiter that it’s trash because it has a lime in it.
Relax. The PTB is here for a reason. Try them out and if it still sucks then use the feedback forums.
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oh no!
It’s not like there’s a certain boon that hides BOTH your aura and scratch marks! How can I survive without my automatic avoid playing the game and sit in the corner for hatch perk while I watch my teammate die!
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Twins and SM ended up being disastrous in all aspects. Poor Trapper and Freddy had been on the backlog too long and these two get all the attention before either getting a bad reception anyway or dropping them all together.
Twins rework was a mess. SM rework was a mess. This balance fiesta between these two are annoying.
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They took the nuclear route and gutted the worst designed Killer in the game whose literal design was “my teammate gave them haste and screwed me in chase with no fault of my own.”
Would it have been better to rework her into someone great? Sure. That’s a lot of work though. So nerf her into obscurity. Tools of Torment really was the worst chapter in the history of DBD and it shows lol
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Zanshin got the Grim Embrace treatment and is now looking to be the best aura perk in the game. Gonna miss it being a Killer version of WoO but hey a buff’s a buff.
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Would’ve been happy if they made Vanishing Box Ultra Rare instead, removed the downside from Captured by the Dark, and moved the OSS report to be a Purple addon instead.
They didn’t do that and really the only decent one was HUD change and Blurry Photo base kit. Kinda mid but it’s whatever.
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Giving Vanishing Box a downside is annoying. It would’ve been better if you made it an Ultra Rare. It edges out Captured by the Dark anyway, and that addon doesn’t deserve a downside to the Hallucinations either.
Singularity has the same addon philosophy and Unknown’s addons need a downside just because? That’s the only mediocre change to me.
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This is a live service game. What did you expect?
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3758644#Comment_3758644
Captured by the Dark sucks. The downside is too significant.
No?
Being susceptible to the grenade launcher early game, forcing slowdown to delay early injures, and potential to snowball is not worth the fourth hallucination you’ll likely never get if they dispel?
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He excels at a lot if you know how to arc the projectile. The problem is more so getting everyone Weakened since that’s natural slowdown if they want to get rid of it, and that take a while against coordinated survivors. That’s why Vanishing Box is a requirement for him and possibly Captured by the Dark for early game.
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I sniped gens with Knight anyway. This changes nothing from my perspective and only heavily nerfs the pop and drop guard play style while slightly making it more difficult to do zoning with the guards, which means you have to put slightly more thought into chasing survivors then running along with your guard until they have no choice.
If you really want old Knight then use Call to Arms and Dried Horsemeat to extend the guard chase to a reasonable degree that you can still zone.
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@Depressedlegion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747112#Comment_3747112
OP isn't talking about that, but rather the hunt timer depleting 3x as fast, making it impossible to do 2v1 strat.
Wouldn’t you still have a reasonable amount of time to catch up to Survivors and force a hit even with the hunt timer reduction? This is something we have to test, because all this seems like is it only ever changes the outcome when the hunt timer is already near its end. If they’re caught by a guard then that should be enough time to catch up as Knight and force a hit before it comes into play since the guard will already by a couple meters behind a survivor.
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The way you described him here is exactly how he will still function, and in fact, match that role even better. It seems like you’re a fan of Knight plopping a guard at a loop and forcing M1.
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@AggressiveFTW said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3747086#Comment_3747086
So you're saying that she is a good choice against a really efficient team?
This seems like a loaded question. If you ask something like this then it always points to Nurse.
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@Peanits said:
Hey folks, now that we've had some time to see it play out and think it over, I wanted to give a quick update. We'll be making some changes to Mage Hand in one of our upcoming minor patches.
- We'll be slightly reducing Mage Hand's range to 14m (was 16m)
- We're reverting the pallet lift time to 0.5s (was 0.35s) - this is the same as the PTB version.
We'll also be reworking the Ring of Telekenesis add-on (which currently causes Mage Hand to pick up pallets quicker) to have a different effect since this turned out to be a very risky number to mess with.
And lastly, as a quick reminder, we'll be fixing a bug which caused Mage Hand to continue picking up a pallet after it stuns you (the stun will correctly cancel Mage Hand), so combining it with Enduring will no longer be an issue.
I think this is fine as the block remains untouched and it makes it a true 50/50.
But please do consider that Vecna’s other powers are underwhelming. Flight of the Damned needs some sort of work done. Even making just one of the Skeletons closer to the ground is sufficient considering the small hitbox. Fly is already fine as a chase tool but needs more speed for out of chase mobility. Dispel Sphere is much better, but Vecna doesn’t need to be slowed using it and have his camera locked. Ideally, also give it another utility. Am I sure what to add to it? No. But it feels like it needs something once you shot it out.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732177#Comment_3732177
On this, I just wanted to chime in and clarify that it is not intended. Mage Hand is meant to be cancelled if the pallet stuns him before it activates. We'll be fixing this in an upcoming release.
Okay this makes it better. I still feel like it’s powerful without it but I’ll experiment and see if a change like this makes it more of a 50/50.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732295#Comment_3732295
That is my point. Mage hand was terrible on PTB, because the slowdown was so much, that if you block a pallet, it was not physically possible to get around fast enough to actually have the pallet blocking be useful. So, they decreased the slowdown (which is still slower than a survivor BTW) just enough so that now you actually have a shot of catching up to them.
Why would you ever use the power to block a pallet, if blocking a pallet means that the survivor gets around the loop and can drop the pallet anyway? The point of blocking the pallet needs to actually be useful to use it.
Part of the counter of this killer is to use items and the fact that spells have a very long cooldown.
Yeah and you have the other side of the point being that the Mage Hand pallet pickup guarantees a hit since the survivor is slowed down after the pallet drop and can’t make another loop. This is not considering the overkill addon that makes it faster to pickup.
The pallet block was useless. Not the pickup. But now that both have the same speed, there’s nothing a survivor can do if Vecna is already caught up enough to begin using Mage Hand. Which is why Enduring is effective. And to remind you, you don’t even need Enduring, just use Mage Hand close enough without getting stunned and you can get about the same value.
And to be honest, I don’t think the point of the Killer was to pray you got Interloper specifically.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732289#Comment_3732289
A perk should not be required for the power to function.
Yeah. I know. Cool. That wasn’t the argument. We’re talking about Mage Hand in general too, you know. Not just Enduring even though it amplifies it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732257#Comment_3732257
And when it was like it was on PTB the ability literally did nothing.
Vecna still had the Enduring stun mind game in PTB. The slowdown still worked with longer loops and especially Shack.
Not every loop that isn’t already unsafe.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732241#Comment_3732241
It is counterable. It is just a proper 50/50.
Either:
- The survivor drops the pallet
- The survivor keeps running
If the survivor drops the pallet, and the vecna guesses right, they land a hit. If they don't, the survivor gets some distance either through a late pickup with mage hand, or breaking the pallet.
If the survivor keeps running, and the vecna guesses right, they continue looping, and get closer to the survivor, maybe landing a hit if the survivor can't make it around the loop. If they guess wrong, they block the pallet, but now the survivor is further away, the vecna is slowed, and the survivor has plenty of time to get around the loop, or to another one.
For something on a 38 second cooldown, a 50/50 seems more than reasonable.
The slowdown is so, so minimal. It was like Xeno slowdown when he didn’t get punished for it.
Vecna does not slow down much for pallet pickup. Not for pallet hold either. And none for canceling. In all three scenarios he can close the gap super quickly.
The only scenario this doesn’t apply are the double pallet tile spawn in Greenville Square and Interloper. Again, it’s early to tell, but that seems like the play right now with he’s current speed while using Mage Hand.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3732222#Comment_3732222
I am not sure what you mean with buffer Mage Hand. Do you mean when he charges up his Mage Hand and holds it?
As far as I can tell, there is still a mindgame possible, as in, if Vecna uses Mage Hand, you do not want to throw down the pallet, and if he doesn't use Mage Hand, that's when you want to throw down the pallet. Because he wants to try and predict your move as well, using Mage Hand while you are throwing down the pallet. But for this mind game you do need a bit of distance to Vecna now, without the interloper item at least.
Buffering by holding it. If he sees you throw it down, Mage Hand it up. If not, put it away.
The problem is if a survivor refuses to throw down a pallet, Vecna will force a loop and THEN Mage Hand. Which means best case scenario is Vecna screws up and you leave for another loop which isn’t likely.
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@ad19970 said:
But what if you just drop the pallet a bit earlier? So that he doesn't get stunned?
Honestly I think Mage Hand still has counterplay, it just depends on how much distance you have to Vecna when you reach the pallet. If you have a bit of distance to him, you can still participate in the Mage Hand mindgame that is similar to a Huntress mindgame. It's only when he is right behind you that he gets a free hit. That is without the interloper item of course. With the interloper item you need less distance to Vecna when reaching the pallet.
He doesn’t get slowdown for the pull up either so he can just buffer Mage Hand. It really only works if he’s already super behind you but you’ll never really be that far off so long as he has fly.
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@TheArbiter said:
Yeah Enduring is gonna be a must run on Vecna it's that good
Way too good.
It was fine on the PTB but now that he doesn’t get no slowdown after using it, you need Interloper’s haste to not get guaranteed hit. I don’t personally like that. It would be okay as a 50/50, but Enduring makes it a lose/lose.
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Not right away no.
Vecna is chill and all but the cooldowns weren’t lowered enough. Or at the least tweaked so that the weaker spells have separate cooldowns based on strength. I’ll wait to preview it with whatever streamer decides to play him and in the meantime continue playing Unknown/Singularity.
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If someone hates Distortion so much, I ask them to run Gearhead with Lethal and watch every single token eat itself away. It’s not like Gearhead is a bad perk. Some Huntress mains run it for Orbitals so I don’t see a problem in Distortion. And it literally never matters if you don’t use aura reading to begin with. Discordance ignores it and it’s a solid perk.
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I think the only other scenario you can ever be banned is griefing in some fashion that extends the game to, like, one full hour. Like if you body blocked someone for an hour with hatch open.
Other than that, you’d have to go out of your way to get banned and pop open Cheat Engine itself while EAC is active.
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They try to compete with the DBD, that’s what.
DBD set this massive foothold on asymmetric games that many can’t compete with. You know, like Smash. It’s established itself first and so it gets the cool game treatment. So other games try so hard to mooch off it.
Amnesia TDD wasn’t popular because it was a clone of the horror games before it, it tried a relatively new role that it pioneered itself. You can be an asymmetrical game if you want, but you have to establish your gimmick that sticks. Otherwise, you just end up as a DBD clone.
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People said this about Fogwise when it was in the PTB and yet no one uses Fogwise in both solo/SWF even though it’s solid.
Tis’ the curse of survivor aura perks. Doomsay about it till everyone forgets about it anyway cuz SWF already have their meta.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729104#Comment_3729104
Ahh yes, because some people need to doesnt mean its necesary, its been shown that you can do it without looking up.
Please provide the evidence that I’m wrong and I’ll concede to this argument.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
They will be removed. It would be a double standard not to after removing Chuckys 180 flicks. Then I assume Wesker would be next because his hug techs are definitely not intentional.
Wesker hug tech is definitely not intentional but I do hope they keep the little things. He’s got some funny stuff going on when the people that play him don’t tunnel.
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https://youtu.be/phoBvn5Lp3U?si=DXP0bd8HSg1LKC9A@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729060#Comment_3729060
Saying flicking requires you to look up just showed the amount of cluelessness you have on the topic, you dont even need to do that.
Aw dang. Sorry I dropped my evidence here. Hehe smile.
Anyway. Yes you look up.
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@Gmoore23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729074#Comment_3729074
First off, calm down. Second off, I'm literally the third person in a row telling you you're just straight up wrong. Nobody has agreed with you, and with how aggressive you are, I guarantee the two others that do agree with you don't even wanna participate. I'd love to see irrefutable proof that Oni flicks don't require skill to do correctly though.
No matter what, like I mentioned before, this is still just over a video game. Or, to put it in simpler terms, it's not something worth getting this heated over, and if you can't see that then you may need to reevaluate some stuff in your life.
Dude, you outright insulted me when I’m providing examples of why it’s oppressive. You’re the one not reading the room and thinking my posts have any sort of aggression in them. I bluntly responded to you after attacking my character and that’s what you’re surprised about? First guy I straight up just told them the leniency on it was detrimental but I have no qualms with them. Just, you know, arguing. Something people do.
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This question has been asked millions of times by the elders of DBD on par with Plato and Socrates. Let me summarize the philosophy they graced us eons ago:
“Some things in life require greater pleasures. But I will never forget when the Skull Merchant held my game hostage for one hour. I still hate her and the pain she caused me will never let me stop hating her.”
Also, she’s boring and sucks in solo queue.
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@Gmoore23 said:
I hate to say but you're just wrong on every front. Oni is still counterable even if he tries for 180 flicks, or just flicks in general. All you need to do is juke him out, and sometimes you don't get it. That's it.
On top of that, just because Blight had his hugs removed doesn't mean he's suddenly so much weaker. His counter is still the exact same as before, and is coincidentally the exact same as Oni: just juke him out. That's it. Still.
The others are correct here. You arguing against it just shows an unwillingness to admit that you unironically are dealing with a skill issue, as many of us have and still do. Let go of the pride man, it's just a video game and sometimes people are better.
Your argument is juking a literal 180 hitbox and then implying I don’t know the Killer I’m playing against.
I’d argue you’re outright not contributing to the argument and lying about the people you’re talking about. Your word salad is saying the equivalent of “skissue, should’ve just dodged lmao”
No. I played I Oni. I played during the PTB. I 180’d people with ease. Once I learned that the tech was still around, I continued 180’ing people with ease till I slowly realized how monumentally easy it is to pull off.
If you want another example then look at Pyramid Head flicks. Near same execution. The difference is the thing you’re talking about ACTUALLY applies here. The AOE is telegraphed and difficult to pull off once they see you using it.
Oni is in constant control. The survivor don’t get a say in if they get flick’d or not. You wanna know why? Because just like PH, Oni instantly turns his camera and model to your direction. This is not a PH AOE you can dodge, this is a Demon Strike out of Dash that is impossible to dodge and the only constant keeping it in check was the limited turn radius.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/415530/why-is-the-oni-flick-still-in
if you think hug tech changed blight's counterplay at all or mitigated it you dont know what you're talking about
Yeah it did. Most Blights just rush you down after pallet breaks now in a dead zone. They can’t, you know, ignore loops.
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@squbax said:
Saying you cant counter oni flicks shows a misunderstanding of them, yes they will hit you if you hug the corner, but you can juke him before that.
Bad onis are a joke because of that, his power is literally just a timer for you to go into corners while in chase and you will not get hit by it because well... They are bad and cannot flick.
Now playing against a good oni is scary af because they can actually make blood fury scary and you have to thing how to approach a chase, should you use a corner? Should you fake the window? Use collision to make him miss or a checkspot to avoid getting hit?
Why on earth should devs remove the only skill ceiling oni has?
The skill ceiling you’re taking about is looking up with high sensitivity and moving your mouse left or right if you don’t see them in front of you.
Stop saying it’s a skill ceiling. It’s detrimental, and I’m not trying to be rude. You know what a skill ceiling is? Huntress crossmaps, orbitals, Unknown bounces. If you want flicks that actually require ‘skill’ to use then look at Wesker flicks. You can control which direction you throw someone and can extend the area at which you can grab someone ever so slightly.
The Oni flick is a 180 that’s impossible to dodge. The way you described it is literally the farthest from the truth. He’s right next you. You’re essentially arguing he should not be restricted from downing you at all. The point of Oni’s power is that he’s a powerhouse with all the tools to help you get a down. 180s completely overblow it with minimal effort.
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They said potential fix. It’s likely still there but I haven’t seen it yet.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713310#Comment_3713310
So what about the Survivors Perks
3 DS's
2 Auto heal medkits
3 Hope's
2 Daja Vu's
4 Lithe's
I actually wonder what would've happened if they didn't DC
I get that Pop and PR are too much at this point… but what if Killer players don't use them
These are the least problematic things you’ve ever listed. I cannot believe you put Lithe, DS, and Deja Vu up there like they’re a problem. Deja Vu is literally a nothing perk. Resilience maybe but only one guy ran it.