FoxWolfFrostFire
FoxWolfFrostFire
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- FoxWolfFrostFire
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I have made a whole new post. A Redux of this post. Any more comments or suggestions please put it there.
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@JudgeArtyom said:
If they did the same thing to healing I think it would be so much better.I thought about that, But I think that would be a bit to rough, if In all truth if this was done to healing it would be better that 10 meters walking or 5 meters running reduces the healing progress bar by 1%
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I need to make an adjust meant saying that they should keep old hatch spawn for this to work best but keep the shutting of the hatch idea.
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@Abyssionknight said:
@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.Some issues with the system:
- requires a significant update to the game tutorial they just added ($$$)
- requires new assets to be created in the form of new key chests, and locks on the generators ($$$)
- system does not seem particularly new player friendly, as it takes a game they already struggle with and makes it substantially harder (needing to get keys, and deal with constant regression)
- completely ruins the key economy. Now everyone can leave every match with a key, stripping the item of it's rareness.
- The hatch changes are negated. I find the hatch during the match, I place a key next to the hatch. The killer can't move the key, so the hatch is now permanently open.
- Matches are easier / end faster. You can use a key before the match ends, so people can literally spot the hatch, grab a key and leave instantly. This feels massively worse for players left behind, and for the killer.
- What's the point of bringing items into a match? If you have to pick up a key that means either you A ) have to abandon your item for someone else to potential steal / for it to be unavailable to you when you need it B ) you're going to propose you can carry a key and another item (breaks item economy, allows people to carry two keys / leave with a key and another item), or C ) it encourages players to just not pick up keys at all if they bring in an item, which is detrimental to their teammates.
- DC's aren't addressed. When people DC it already makes the game harder, and your system doesn't address that at all. I know you want a challenge, but again, you have to consider not just what's hard, but what's fun and feels good. DC's already feel bad, so there's no reason to add a system that makes them feel even worse.
Another case of some one not offering any sort of advice on how to improve this...OR adding in points which I've already stated against. Please read the longer post to see the big issues with your post but I will address some of your key points here lol.
First you CAN'T drop the key at the hatch, to pick it up later. (It can't be used for aura reading like the item key) So a item that can't be dropped can't be dropped.
Acting like such a thing will cost SO much money is barely a factor in saving the damn games life from it dropping off state it is in now.
Hatch doesn't spawn like that(Try again)
And adding a functionally to the key doesn't strip it of anything it improves it(Try again mate) as the Key Ring Keys won't have the aura reading feature not being a true item.
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@Abyssionknight said:
@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.
While I understand wanting difficulty, you also have to remember that not all players are on the same level. You have to balance your system not just around the best players, but also make a system that new and less skilled players can enjoy as well.
One consideration is how would you handle key respawns? Would keys aura be visible to everyone on the map at all times when spawned, or would you just have to run to a location and see if there was a key there? Finding keys + ruin + gen regression seems very hard to manage, especially since individuals could potentially run to several key locations without ever finding a key.
There's also the consideration that you now have no reason to bring other items into a match. If I bring a toolbox for example, I have to either abandon my toolbox to get a key, then hope I can get my item back, or I have to run around and just look for someone who has unlocked a generator. It extends the game potentially a lot more than you realise, while also creating an environment where bringing items into a game is no longer a good thing, making most of the bloodweb pointless.
You also have to remember that killers can't interact with items... so I can literally just find the hatch, grab a key, and either leave immediately (so the games can end a lot faster), or I can just place the key on the ground next to the hatch. Now the hatch changes are entirely negated, since the key beside the hatch means the standoff is once again mandatory. Hell, even without the key next to the hatch, it's pretty much mandatory, since your format has included respawning keys all over the map.
The other consideration is cost. Adding lines to a gen progress bar, and a regression condition is a lot less expensive and time intensive than your format, which not only requires more work on the mechanics, but also more graphical and animation work, as well as more extensive changes to the new tutorial they just made.
Oh, and your version also doesn't do anything to deal with people who simply fail to join the match, or who DC in the middle of a match.
So overall I don't mind your idea over all, but I think your version is a little too complicated and has too many moving parts that make it harder to effectively balance.
I hate to point this out but it feels like you didn't even read the post. I stated that the keys from the basement and exit gates do not take your item slot.
The game will last JUST the right amount with these changes and the blood web wouldn't be pointless as stated before and I'm sorry but five minutes a game isn't enough for a killer to do squat in most cases. I foresee this change making the game last 10-20 minutes which is MUCH betterAnd second games should be balanced around best and trickle down to the worse. Just working around the worse only makes the better stronger, it is counter to making the game over all balanced (End of story on that)
The key won't be beside the hatch. The hatch is the hatch not an exit gate. (So once again wrong there)
If a key isn't there that means a gen should be unlocked so they can go find that.(I don't think even bad players are so dim they can't figure that out.)
Sure we can add a key respawn SOUND to Survivors but no aura reading.
Also your statement about the hatch and the key are clearly showing your lack of over all knowledge of the game as the hatch doesn't spawn at ALL until a number of gens are done equal to remaining Survivors + 1
And why you are find pointing out my version doesn't think of people not joining a match. Seems like you didn't offer any advice. Easy fix btw. Remove 1 gen per unspawned Survivor as it is now +unlock one extra gen from start.
You also seem to act like the mass player base can't understand basic game play features. So I'm going to skip that point because I NEED to believe that people on mass aren't stupid.
PS: As for the hatch stand off, it at the least forces an extended chase as unlocked the hatch with one of the (What I will call Key ring keys) Will take time and can be stopped with a hit.
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@Tsulan said:
What about additional Objectives like parts or gasoline?
Every time killers complain about gen rush, the survivors counter that it´s their only objective.
They really need more to do.The key is another Objectives, one which can be avoided by bringing one in from the start rather than finding those one user keys hidden in basement and gates.
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@Abyssionknight said:
I like the first idea, but I feel it's too oppressive at the end of the game. If you're the last survivor left, finishing a gen is already very difficult, and adding the regression would just make it worse. If the hatch proposal they mentioned made it live (killer closes hatch, survivor needs to do a gen to reopen it) then your proposal becomes even more oppressive end game.The way I'd fix that is by making the milestones change based on survivors alive. So 4 survivors would have milestones at 25, 50 and 75 and 100 percent. 3 alive would have 33 and 66, 100 2 alive 50 and 100, and 1 alive only the 100% milestone.
If your gen progression is below the first milestone, the gen doesn't regress (unless hit by the killer of course). So if you have a gen at 25% progression and someone dies, it's not going to regress to zero, since it's below the new 33% milestone. If you had a gen at the 50% milestone when someone died however, it would no longer be at a milestone so it would regress down to 33% (further rewarding the killer for getting a kill).
I think this set up would accomplish your goal of slowing down the game at the start, while not making the game feel impossible or oppressive to survivors at the end of the match, especially if you're the last man standing. As the match gets hard the system is less aggressively harming the survivors, because the killer gets exponentially more dangerous and effective the fewer survivors are alive.
It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.
I will say that we should also rework some methods of escape for survivors as well, but maybe I'll do another post for that. Give them more choices to work around the killer with out confronting him directly.
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@Onetrolltorulethem said:
Although, where would that leave kicking a generator as the killer?
I cover that, Kicking the gen will let it drop down below the said mile stones until it is worked on again and it drops faster.